Jeep 4.0L rebuild

[Mudderoy]

I will be replacing the 4.0L in my 1998 Jeep very soon. This thread will be a detailed accounting of the process.

I was hoping to have a shed built in the back prior to starting this process but after having the AW4 rebuilt and having the transmission shop over heat the 4.0L well it's not running correctly. I've made several changes and I am still getting a mis-fire on #1. I'll continue to work the problem, but after having the AW4 rebuilt, well I might as well get a new engine in there too.

Since there is a bit more importance to having the 4.0L replaced now I'm upping my schedule. The plan was that Matt (msmoorenburg) was going to rebuild a 4.0L put it in his Jeep and I was going to get the motor he has in there now.

I was looking forward to the rebuild, but after thinking about the space I need and wondering if I had enough room in my garage to actually lift the old engine out, well I just decided it would be best to make use of Matt's shop, if it was okay with him.

After further discussion Matt agreed to do the rebuild for me, one of the few people I would trust to do this, and I'll drive up to his shop in Conroe and we'll swap out the old engine and put in the new one in.

Originally I wanted to go with a stroker, but I have been having issues finding a crankshaft. I called a local engine building company here in Houston. They said they didn't have much luck finding the crankshafts and they could build me a 250 to 275 HP 4.0L that wasn't a stroker. They also mentioned that the ECM had issues with the stroker parts. I was surprised to find out it would take them 3 to 4 weeks to build the engine. I guess they are busy. It was after this that I decided to contact Matt to see if he would be interesting in building the 4.0L understanding that I was interested in 250 hp, and having something that was a daily driver, which included my wife or girls driving it.

There is no reason to let a perfectly good 1998 4.0L go to waste so after the 98 gets a 4.0 replacement, Matt is going to rebuild the 4.0L we take out of the 98. Once it is ready then I'll be taking the 1999 XJ up to Conroe and we'll swap it in. The 99 will be stock. :D

So far the only performance parts I have for the 1998 rebuild is a 1999 4.0L intake.

I'll let Matt jump in here to detail what the plans are but I'm sure we'll be doing a performance CAM, port and polish of the intake and head, and probably .030 over on the pistons.

[LizardRunner]

I think you would be better off with a swirl job on the intake instead of a polish Tony. I'll defer to Matt on that but none of my race car intakes are polished because that actually takes away from good fuel mix getting into the cylinders.

[Cwish]

No stroker? I wanna stroke my 4.0 soooooo bad

[bluedragon436]

I wish I had a shop that I could work on my XJ in.. well that and I wish I had someone who knew the 4.0 and Jeeps like Matt.. Can't wait to source a 4.0 to rebuild into a budget stroker to replace my current 4.0

[bigjim350]

ohhh sweet. If its gonna be at Matt's shop that means i'll have my hands in it sooner or later. And you better belive if im there it will have some GREEN parts in it......course that means it will last forever.

[Cwish]

Blue dragon- when I get older and get my own house it will consist of small house big land and huge ass pull barn for a shop. I'm tired of my garage at home. Not big enough!!!!! A man must work on his jeep it's a part of life

[4.3LXJ]

Blue dragon- when I get older and get my own house it will consist of small house big land and huge ass pull barn for a shop. I'm tired of my garage at home. Not big enough!!!!! A man must work on his jeep it's a part of life

That is kinda what I have. Love it. Great place to retire. But I think the shop needs to be even bigger.

[4.3LXJ]

I think you would be better off with a swirl job on the intake instead of a polish Tony. I'll defer to Matt on that but none of my race car intakes are polished because that actually takes away from good fuel mix getting into the cylinders.

I agree. The injectors squirt gas on the intake valves. You want a smooth intake to reduce turbulence until the valve. Then use the swirl to evaporate the gas better.

[Mudderoy]

No stroker? I wanna stroke my 4.0 soooooo bad

Yeah I didn't see any sense in rebuilding the 4.0 if I didn't get more HP out of it, and a stroker seemed to be the best way. But trying to find a crank, and Matt's rebuild isn't a stroker, then after talking to the local shop that told me that can't find cranks anymore plus it causes problems with the computer.... Oh and they said they could get 250 to 275 from a 4.0 I said the hell with the stroker. :D

[Cwish]

But yeah definitely swirl on the intake no polish

[krustymudracer]

Hey there guys...if you don't mind I'll throw in my 2cents worth. I've got about 6 '99 intakes with all of them modified differently. So far the best method of port or polish that i've found as long as you use a stock style throttle body is just porting(no polish). Just open the intake up to match the port on your head using a fairly coarse bit. If you swirl polish on the fore side of the injector it tends to create more of a disturbance in the air causing your spray pattern coming from the injector to be erratic. I've been told that polishing to a high luster will actually help; but on the chassis dyno it proved wrong. It made no difference at all. So all the time and effort in polishing in my opinion is wasted work. On another note you're right the 258 cranks are really hard to find now. What i have started doing is offset grinding the 4.0 crank and ordering pistons for that application.
If you guys have any questions on these strokers(or 4.0's in general) i've got a lot of experience under my belt. Feel free to ask.

[Mudderoy]

I'm looking at the Crane Cam h-260-2

http://www.cranecams.com/40-41.pdf

[Mudderoy]

Okay guys, I've ordered the cam, lifters, springs, etc...

Where's a good place to order the ARP head bolts, rod bolts?

What timing gear and chain should I get?

I'm going to replace the header, so any recommendations?

[4.3LXJ]

Summit Racing on the ARP stuff

[Mudderoy]

I was also going to order a brass freeze plug kit.

http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/norm/slp-381-8047_w_m.jpg

[Cheromaniac]

Where's a good place to order the ARP head bolts, rod bolts?
What timing gear and chain should I get?

You can get the ARP rod bolts (part no. ARP-112-6001) and Cloyes dual roller timing set (part no. CLO-9-3127) from Summit Racing.
If you can't find a 258 crank to build a full fat stroker, you could use a 232 crank instead and build a 4.2L mini-stroker:

http://www.jeepstrokers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3083

[XJ4IV]

Tony I found somewhere I THINK rockauto.com where you can buy a 258 crankshaft and all 6 connecting rods new for around 300

[Mudderoy]

Tony I found somewhere I THINK rockauto.com where you can buy a 258 crankshaft and all 6 connecting rods new for around 300

Thanks but already made the decision to go the 4.0L route.

[Mudderoy]

mmmmm cammy!


http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y299/msmoorenburg/2012-02-20_17-33-52_914.jpg

[bluedragon436]

MMM... Jeep porn!! LOL.. That is a nice looking Cam.. Bet that engine will purr when It's done

[TeXJ]

Hey tony, not sure if you want to do this, but could you kind of give us a rough estimate about cost? I have been thinking of doing something like this as well, arent we all :D

[Mudderoy]

Hey tony, not sure if you want to do this, but could you kind of give us a rough estimate about cost? I have been thinking of doing something like this as well, arent we all :D

Sure no problem.

[Mudderoy]

Desc of item|Price
Crane Cams 96806-12 Valve springs - single | 52.99
Crane Cams 99948-12 Valve spring retainers | 47.99
Crane Cams 99179-1 Rocker Arm Bridge Shim | 11.60
Crane 99278-12 Anti- Pump Up Hydraulic Lifter | 75.45
Crane Cams 753901 H-260-2 Camshaft |146.20

[Mudderoy]

I found a new oil pan pretty easy online, but I'm having a hard time finding a non-plastic valve cover. I've looked at the fancy aluminum covers, but I'd like to price a stock valve cover, new though, not used.

If anyone has a source...

[OrangeXJ]

I found a new oil pan pretty easy online, but I'm having a hard time finding a non-plastic valve cover. I've looked at the fancy aluminum covers, but I'd like to price a stock valve cover, new though, not used.

If anyone has a source...

Here you go Tony a red one

http://www.jeep4x4center.com/jeep-engine-parts/engine4.0L-242-a.htm

[bluedragon436]

That is the valve cover I want for my XJ when I finally get around to doing my budget stroker build up Greg!! Well, minus the red color!!

[Mudderoy]

Here you go Tony a red one

http://www.jeep4x4center.com/jeep-engine-parts/engine4.0L-242-a.htm

Yep that's the aluminum one I was referring to, but I'm looking for the plain stock valve cover. All I have found are plastic, and I'm pretty sure the one on my 4.0 isn't plastic.

[TeXJ]

I know you said new, but why a new one when one from a salvage yard will clean up just nice with a lil can of GREEN spray paint :D

[Mudderoy]

Desc of item|Price
Crane Cams 96806-12 Valve springs - single | 52.99
Crane Cams 99948-12 Valve spring retainers | 47.99
Crane Cams 99179-1 Rocker Arm Bridge Shim | 11.60
Crane 99278-12 Anti- Pump Up Hydraulic Lifter | 75.45
Crane Cams 753901 H-260-2 Camshaft |146.20
MOPAR Pushrod x 14 | 52.50
MOPAR Rocker ARM x 12 | 60.24
112-6001 - ARP 258 6 cylinder rod bolt set | 46.99
6-3732 - Amc / jeep inline 6 240 cubic inch 4.0 liter 1991 and up stainless steel | 59.95
FKA-1 - Amc / jeep inline 6 1964 to 1996 199 to 258 cubic inch | 7.95
chbs-1128 - L6 4.0 liter head bolt set 14pcs 86 to 96 yrs 1/2 inch bolts | 44.95
Lucas Oil 10153 Assembly Lube (310383865463) | 8.99
Permatex 24240 Medium Strength Threadlocker Blue, 36 ml Bottle | 19.58
ATP 102005 Harmonic Balancer | 39.79
DORMAN 264221 Oil Pan | 60.89
DORMAN 565018 Cylinder head plug | 10.50
FEL-PRO ES70599 Fuel Injector o-rings | 6.12
OMIX-ADA 1745704 Timing Cover | 38.99
VICTOR REINZ F7549 Exhaust Seal Ring | 7.63
High Flow Thermostat Housing #HFTH | 27.95
HP GM/FORD/AMC/JEEP Thermostat 195 degree #4365 | 16.95
Breather Hose Set 4.0 Liter OEM Cherokee & Comanche 1991-1995 - 91-95 BREATHER | 17.95
AW4 Transmission Dip Stick & Tube Set OEM Cherokee 1993-2001 - AW4 DIP STICK & TUBE W/O-RING | 16.95
Front & Rear Valve Cover Vent Valve Set OEM 4.0 Liter Cherokee 1994-2001 - 94-01 FRT&REAR VENT | 8.95
Valve Cover Grommet Set 4.0 Liter Cherokee 1994-2001 | 5.95
Engine Oil Filler Cap 4.0 Liter OEM Cherokee & Comanche 1991-1995 | 7.25
Dip Stick Indicator Cherokee OEM 4.0 Liter 1991-1996 | 13.95
P5249519 Double Roller Chain and Sprock | 117.30
P4529677 Damper Attachment Package | 11.90
CARDONE SELECT 844694 (84-4694) Distributor | 66.79
ANCHOR 2572 Motor Mount x 2 | 10.90
CHAMPION 412 Spark Plug x 6 | 10.74

[Mudderoy]

Donor engine. 1995 4.0L

http://xjtalk.com/images/special/4.0-rebuild/enginerebuild1.jpg

http://xjtalk.com/images/special/4.0-rebuild/enginerebuild2.jpg

http://xjtalk.com/images/special/4.0-rebuild/enginerebuild3.jpg

http://xjtalk.com/images/special/4.0-rebuild/enginerebuild4.jpg

[XJ Wheeler]

Hey tony, check out team cherokee. They have some factory original aluminum valve covers (seem like too much $). But, they also have those after market aluminum covers and a lot of other stuff you might need throughout this process.
http://www.teamcherokee.com/Engine/index.html

Awesome detail, its really helping me see what all goes into this. I plan on doing a stroker one day and this definitely gonna help.

[Mudderoy]

Hey tony, check out team cherokee. They have some factory original aluminum valve covers (seem like too much $). But, they also have those after market aluminum covers and a lot of other stuff you might need throughout this process.
http://www.teamcherokee.com/Engine/index.html

Awesome detail, its really helping me see what all goes into this. I plan on doing a stroker one day and this definitely gonna help.

Several of the parts listed (mostly the little stuff) is from TeamCherokee.com

[?blue?sdriver]

Had the same cam in my previous ThumperXJ. (RIP Thumper).. You WILL be pleased.

[Mudderoy]

Had the same cam in my previous ThumperXJ. (RIP Thumper).. You WILL be pleased.

lol msmoorenburg is talking about putting the same cam in his now.

What year was Thumper, and did the cam cause you any ECM issues?

[?blue?sdriver]

93. 'Reset' The ECM, no issues there. The one issue I did have was a collapsed lifter about four months later.

[Mudderoy]

http://xjtalk.com/images/special/4.0-rebuild/enginerebuild5.jpg

http://xjtalk.com/images/special/4.0-rebuild/enginerebuild6.jpg

http://xjtalk.com/images/special/4.0-rebuild/enginerebuild7.jpg

http://xjtalk.com/images/special/4.0-rebuild/enginerebuild8.jpg

[TeXJ]

those heads are HEAVY!

[Mudderoy]

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-gFYQOODCd88/T2T9xCUwVFI/AAAAAAAAB3Q/I6BnnIWK9dY/s720/20120317_125952.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-KXyToCCAm78/T2T9oQkptuI/AAAAAAAAB3I/PjQhQHl2diM/s720/20120317_100809.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Tr1fncpMM4M/T2T9eqfEL3I/AAAAAAAAB3A/sOF-jt8RAVg/s720/20120317_100751.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-0etkjbsAX78/T2T9R60_7VI/AAAAAAAAB24/ZgEDJfrX0fU/s720/20120317_100622.jpg

Damn there's that bold I dropped down the throttle body!!!!

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-UHGzEcPp5Sc/T2T9GdFO3cI/AAAAAAAAB2w/nsxXYVp_TVA/s720/20120317_100612.jpg

[dagr8tim]

There's your problem. Fram filters.

Seriously, stroke it.

[XJ Wheeler]

You gonna clean it up and paint it? Maybe red...

or green:D

[Mudderoy]

You gonna clean it up and paint it? Maybe red...

or green:D

I'm leaning towards all black.

[XJ Wheeler]

I'm leaning towards all black.

Nice and stealthy-like.

[TeXJ]

There's your problem. Fram filters.

Seriously, stroke it.

truer words have never been spoken

[Mudderoy]

truer words have never been spoken

It will not be a stroker.

[dagr8tim]

It will not be a stroker.

Any kind of hop up mods? Bigger injectors/2000+ intake?

Can't wait to see how it turns out.

[Mudderoy]

Any kind of hop up mods? Bigger injectors/2000+ intake?

Can't wait to see how it turns out.

Well the problem with doing the mods is the ECU and keeping it "normal" for my wife to drive. So as you can see above (or back) there is a Crane cam, and yes a 1999+ intake. The plan is to port and polish both the intake and the head. The injectors I already have I will reuse. They are 24 lbs injectors from a Mustang. I did this mod a couple of years ago.

So .030 on the pistons, the cam and the intake will be about it for the vroom vroom mods.

[dagr8tim]

Can't wait to see how it turns out. I'm looking at rebuild options for my spare 4.0. Is the new cam flat tappet?

Also, roller rockers. ;-)

[4.3LXJ]

Well the problem with doing the mods is the ECU and keeping it "normal" for my wife to drive. So as you can see above (or back) there is a Crane cam, and yes a 1999+ intake. The plan is to port and polish both the intake and the head. The injectors I already have I will reuse. They are 24 lbs injectors from a Mustang. I did this mod a couple of years ago.

So .030 on the pistons, the cam and the intake will be about it for the vroom vroom mods.

Tony, do you know of any programs available for lap tops that allow you to reprogram your ECM like you can for Chevys?

[Mudderoy]

Can't wait to see how it turns out. I'm looking at rebuild options for my spare 4.0. Is the new cam flat tappet?

Also, roller rockers. ;-)

Flat tappet, no rock, no roll.

[bigjim350]

Tony, do you know of any programs available for lap tops that allow you to reprogram your ECM like you can for Chevys?

I am fairly sure that there aren't any. Would be nice, but just not enough demand for it.

[Mudderoy]

Tony, do you know of any programs available for lap tops that allow you to reprogram your ECM like you can for Chevys?

No I don't know of any. That would be neat though.

[dagr8tim]

No I don't know of any. That would be neat though.

What would be awesome would be if you could hack one of those $20 OBDII to Bluetooth adapters and use a laptop with Bluetooth.

Hell, I've got a netbook that nobody uses that would be perfect. I may have to do some research.

[gary63]

I have been looking at the unichip that can be changed with a laptop they can or you can
and you can have 5 pre set programs and change them with a push of a botton.you might want to check them out.

[Mudderoy]

Machine shop says the crankshaft only needed .010 turning for both mains and rods. :D

[Mudderoy]

More engine porn...

http://xjtalk.com/images/special/4.0-rebuild/enginerebuild9.jpg

http://xjtalk.com/images/special/4.0-rebuild/enginerebuild10.jpg

http://xjtalk.com/images/special/4.0-rebuild/enginerebuild11.jpg

[?blue?sdriver]

oh man, that XJs goinna run like a startled Jackrabbit. Just remember to take it EASY for the first 500 miles or so! PLEASE. What are you going to use oil wise for its initial run? I suggest Royal Purple. Bit more expensive than most but oooh so worth it for a newly rebuilt engine!

[Mudderoy]

oh man, that XJs goinna run like a startled Jackrabbit. Just remember to take it EASY for the first 500 miles or so! PLEASE. What are you going to use oil wise for its initial run? I suggest Royal Purple. Bit more expensive than most but oooh so worth it for a newly rebuilt engine!

I was just planning on putting the Mobile One synthetic with the Lucas Oil stuff with zinc.

I'm a little concerned about driving it home. Matt is building it and we'll be installing it at his shop, about 60 miles from my house. I'll be driving highway home and at 65 mph I hit about 2300 rpm. Little more rpm than I'd like on a new engine, but Matt thinks it will be just fine.

[?blue?sdriver]

Dont use Lucas anymore since my little research project on their products... Yes, a short mild highway drive will be fine, just no romping on it. Granny acceleration only, even on the highway. Dont kick it out to pass anyone. Youll thank me later.:p

[Mudderoy]

Well we got some bad news Friday from the shop about the block. We are going to confirm Monday (today) but the word was the block is fine but will need to be bored .060 over.

We just want to make sure that means it HAS to go .060 over or CAN go .060 over. I think it means must go.

Matt called a engine rebuild and parts supplier. Turns out the guy he spoke with has an XJ with a stroker. Drives it daily 70 miles to work (may be round trip). His is bored .125 over!!!! No over heating issues and he's in Florida.

Who wouldn't want more cubes?!?!!? Hell I was going to request .030 at least anyway.

[dagr8tim]

Well we got some bad news Friday from the shop about the block. We are going to confirm Monday (today) but the word was the block is fine but will need to be bored .060 over.

We just want to make sure that means it HAS to go .060 over or CAN go .060 over. I think it means must go.

Matt called a engine rebuild and parts supplier. Turns out the guy he spoke with has an XJ with a stroker. Drives it daily 70 miles to work (may be round trip). His is bored .125 over!!!! No over heating issues and he's in Florida.

Who wouldn't want more cubes?!?!!? Hell I was going to request .030 at least anyway.

I've seen strokers built to 4.9 or 5.0 liters.

How much increase would you see to CID if you went to .060? Maybe 1 CID per cylinder?

[4.3LXJ]

According to my hokey math, you go up 7 cubes to 250

[dagr8tim]

According to my hokey math, you go up 7 cubes to 250

1 CID per cylinder. Not bad for a rough guess.

[Mudderoy]

I've seen strokers built to 4.9 or 5.0 liters.

How much increase would you see to CID if you went to .060? Maybe 1 CID per cylinder?

No I know they do build them to 5.0, but I don't know if they are daily drivers or trailer queens.

[dagr8tim]

No I know they do build them to 5.0, but I don't know if they are daily drivers or trailer queens.

Those are race built prerunners.

[Mudderoy]

Confirmed, block will need to be bored .060 over.

Waiting on a call back from Titan Engines to order pistons, rings, main, rod & cam bearings. Along with gasket set and oil pump...

The machine shop wants pistons before they bore the block so they can match them to the bore.

[Mudderoy]

Well I got to speak with Chuck ant Titan Engines. This is the guy that has the .125 over stroked Jeep (originally 4.0). It's in a Wrangler. He's working up a "kit" price on the items I need.

If you're going to rebuild your 4.0 you might want to give Titan a call first. I could have got cam, lifters, timing set, etc... along with the pistons, rings, etc... from one place as a kit.

They sell the Crane cams there as well.

It gives me a great feeling that I was dealing with someone that has a Jeep and has a rebuilt engine in it!

[dagr8tim]

Well I got to speak with Chuck ant Titan Engines. This is the guy that has the .125 over stroked Jeep (originally 4.0). It's in a Wrangler. He's working up a "kit" price on the items I need.

If you're going to rebuild your 4.0 you might want to give Titan a call first. I could have got cam, lifters, timing set, etc... along with the pistons, rings, etc... from one place as a kit.

They sell the Crane cams there as well.

It gives me a great feeling that I was dealing with someone that has a Jeep and has a rebuilt engine in it!

It's not to late to stroke it. :rolleye0012:

[Mudderoy]

It's not to late to stroke it. :rolleye0012:

Did you see the picture of the crank?

[dagr8tim]

Did you see the picture of the crank?

Just teasing alittle.

[Mudderoy]

Just teasing alittle.

It would make a nice, oily paper weight.

Yeah it would be about $1000 more to stroke it.

[Mudderoy]

Okay so total price for pistons, rings, main, rod, and cam bearings... oil pump and gasket set $330, or $342 shipped.

[Cheromaniac]

Confirmed, block will need to be bored .060 over

OK. With a 3.935" bore, 3.411" stroke, and 6 cylinders your engine's displacement will be 248.9ci or 4078cc (4.1L).


Well I got to speak with Chuck at Titan Engines. This is the guy that has the .125 over stroked Jeep (originally 4.0).

There aren't many 4.0 blocks that have thick enough cylinders to safely overbore them that far. Due to production variances and core shift, you'd probably need to sonic test a few blocks before you find one that's suitable. Even then, all it takes is one overheating episode and it's likely you'd crack a cylinder and trash the block.
A true 5.0L stroker has a 4.00" bore and a 4.06" stroke. The 505 Performance 5.0L stroker is actually 4855cc 'cause they go +0.060" for a 3.935" bore size which is safer.

[Mudderoy]

OK. With a 3.935" bore, 3.411" stroke, and 6 cylinders your engine's displacement will be 248.9ci or 4078cc (4.1L).



There aren't many 4.0 blocks that have thick enough cylinders to safely overbore them that far. Due to production variances and core shift, you'd probably need to sonic test a few blocks before you find one that's suitable. Even then, all it takes is one overheating episode and it's likely you'd crack a cylinder and trash the block.
A true 5.0L stroker has a 4.00" bore and a 4.06" stroke. The 505 Performance 5.0L stroker is actually 4855cc 'cause they go +0.060" for a 3.935" bore size which is safer.

lol I'm putting 4.1L on the Scoop then! :D

[Mudderoy]

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-0H4Kkxu6m_g/T31bW6SFRjI/AAAAAAAAB7A/XU-2oHkk3cQ/s1024/20120405_025457.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-7reTb3_y8vY/T31nwFSbNDI/AAAAAAAAB7o/pg5FxwjudbE/s1024/20120405_030302.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-o4qMKv16OjY/T31nl0UTqjI/AAAAAAAAB7g/HIL6TMclYC0/s1024/20120405_030119.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-mEBiug3v0Dw/T31b8aJASDI/AAAAAAAAB7Y/jli7v4xshrc/s1024/20120405_025814.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-pD4MfxSoDrs/T32RZLuLmoI/AAAAAAAAB9A/93cPdLy1Gnc/s1024/20120405_025923.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-7ZWzLDtTYIo/T31birwg1AI/AAAAAAAAB7I/v-3Oyy28Wq4/s1024/20120405_025617.jpg

[Mudderoy]

There was a recent conversation about using a 1999 intake for HP gains, etc... In that convo it was said that if you are putting a "99" intake on a non "99" 4.0 you'll need a 1999 Exhaust/Intake gasket.

I'm doing this to the 1995 block that Matt is building for me and all I can find (online) is the gasket for the 1991-1999 4.0L engine!

Part # 53010238

If this is correct then I should already have this gasket in the 1995 gasket kit from Titan Motors.

Anyone?

[dagr8tim]

There was a recent conversation about using a 1999 intake for HP gains, etc... In that convo it was said that if you are putting a "99" intake on a non "99" 4.0 you'll need a 1999 Exhaust/Intake gasket.

I'm doing this to the 1995 block that Matt is building for me and all I can find (online) is the gasket for the 1991-1999 4.0L engine!

Part # 53010238

If this is correct then I should already have this gasket in the 1995 gasket kit from Titan Motors.

Anyone?

Here's what I found when I was looking for a gasket for my 99 intake.

FEL-PRO Part # MS93094 - 99
FEL-PRO Part # MS94790 - 97
This info is from Rock Auto.

[Mudderoy]

Here's what I found when I was looking for a gasket for my 99 intake.

FEL-PRO Part # MS93094 - 99
FEL-PRO Part # MS94790 - 97
This info is from Rock Auto.

Excellent! Thank you. I found it on Amazon for $15.45 with free shipping :D

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31tb6uoBUIL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

[Mudderoy]

Goodies back from the machine shop!

http://xjtalk.com/images/special/4.0-rebuild/enginerebuild12.jpg

http://xjtalk.com/images/special/4.0-rebuild/enginerebuild13.jpg

http://xjtalk.com/images/special/4.0-rebuild/enginerebuild14.jpg

http://xjtalk.com/images/special/4.0-rebuild/enginerebuild15.jpg

http://xjtalk.com/images/special/4.0-rebuild/enginerebuild16.jpg

[dagr8tim]

Sexy

[4.3LXJ]

So the fun part begins?

[Mudderoy]

So the fun part begins?

Well I was hoping to go up and get my hands in it but Matt's schedule is pretty tight for the next couple of Saturdays. Might just wind up letting him put it together and I won't see it in person until mid May when I drive the 98 up to do the swap.

If I really had wanted to do it myself, I could have just done it at my house. I really liked the idea of not only having Matt's expertise and detailed approach (although I think I've been driving him a little crazy checking and double checking things) but he has a great machine shop close to him and he knows the work that the guy does. That means a lot to anyone that has built and engine.

[4.3LXJ]

Well, then I guess we will wait a little longer.

[bigjim350]

Well I was hoping to go up and get my hands in it but Matt's schedule is pretty tight for the next couple of Saturdays. Might just wind up letting him put it together and I won't see it in person until mid May when I drive the 98 up to do the swap.

If I really had wanted to do it myself, I could have just done it at my house. I really liked the idea of not only having Matt's expertise and detailed approach (although I think I've been driving him a little crazy checking and double checking things) but he has a great machine shop close to him and he knows the work that the guy does. That means a lot to anyone that has built and engine.

If your talking about the machine shop your engine was at, yes they do good work. But the machinest is a bit of an a$$hole ;)

[4.3LXJ]

Sometimes they make the best craftsmen

[Mudderoy]

If your talking about the machine shop your engine was at, yes they do good work. But the machinest is a bit of an a$$hole ;)

I spoke with him, I could tell. That is usually the sign of confidence. ;)

[bigjim350]

Well I asked him to build me something. He told me it wouldn't work and that I was stupid. Well the machine shop I use built it and it worked perfect. So he can shove his confidence up his...well you know :D

Sent from my nerdy smartphone

[07Negative]

Everyone keeps saying stroker. I'm kicking around this rebuild as well. Seems like a 5.3L swap makes more sense. More power, less money.

[4.3LXJ]

don't forget you live in CA Deejay. That gets more complicated here. You will have to do a tranny swap too to satisfy the smog police.

[dagr8tim]

don't forget you live in CA Deejay. That gets more complicated here. You will have to do a tranny swap too to satisfy the smog police.

Do you think you can get around the smog police if you stroke? I'm just curious. I know it'd be easier to pass a visual inspection.

[bigjim350]

Do you think you can get around the smog police if you stroke? I'm just curious. I know it'd be easier to pass a visual inspection.

I think that would depend on the year of the jeep. But I think you could get one to pass, but you may have to spend a small fortune on custom tuning.

Sent from my nerdy smartphone

[4.3LXJ]

Do you think you can get around the smog police if you stroke? I'm just curious. I know it'd be easier to pass a visual inspection.

As long as you can pass the sniff test on the tail pipe, yes. They cannot tell if you make any internal mods unless they tear you down, which they will not do. I am going to do some internal mods when I rebuild, using different Chevy heads and a custom cam ground to LS1 specs, and they will not know unless I tell them.

[Mudderoy]

As long as you can pass the sniff test on the tail pipe, yes. They cannot tell if you make any internal mods unless they tear you down, which they will not do. I am going to do some internal mods when I rebuild, using different Chevy heads and a custom cam ground to LS1 specs, and they will not know unless I tell them.

EPA along with the IRS should be shut down.

[4.3LXJ]

EPA along with the IRS should be shut down.

I agree with some curbs on these organizations, but in our case it is the state that thinks it can change the world in regards to air quality.

[dagr8tim]

I agree with some curbs on these organizations, but in our case it is the state that thinks it can change the world in regards to air quality.

Stuff like that makes me want to move somewhere like one of the border states with Cali that don't have the same automotive laws, just so I can drive across the border every day in a non compliant car.

[4.3LXJ]

Stuff like that makes me want to move somewhere like one of the border states with Cali that don't have the same automotive laws, just so I can drive across the border every day in a non compliant car.

Those are getting fewer and fewer. Nevada in the Reno and maybe the Vegas area are just as tough. Arizona at least in the Phoenix area are even tougher. Oregon in the Northwest part require smog checks now too.

[86-cheif]

Ok I'm late to the show, but you can still stroke it.........using the old AMC 3.8L crank.
Its a 3.500 stroke compared to the 3.410 stroke of our 4.0l. The benefit here is that it will give you a zero deck give or take..without having to pay to deck the block..so you gain some displacement & save some money & gain some power/torque.:driving:

Interested yet?
These cranks can be at your door for under $150 with bearings, turned & ready to run.
Sounding better eh?
Or if your lucky, because no one wants them, you can find one cheap/free. I payed 30 for mine:)


Basically I was rebuilding my 4.0 as well..zero deck, .60 over to unshroud the valves & such..9.1:1 compression & a .044 quench height. Running on 87 octane, stock cam, home ported/cleaned up head & ls1 valve train. Goal was make some more power, gain in efficiency & hope to gain mileage.
It would basically be a 4.1L with stock stroke & .60 over.
Then I started snooping around & found de-stroked 4.0's using the older 199Ci cranks and such..So I asked around, did my homework and found the old lonely 3.8L 232CI..and so here we are.
Dino Savva posted all the info up that I found, he came up with a few receipes & they are now listed on his stroker site. We are calling them mini-strokers & I'm surprised these haven't surfaced until I ask Dino..
After speaking with jeepspeed guys, they use these cranks very very often to gain a little umph..its just been kept quiet I guess.


Anyway a 232 crank is drop in and go, just like the 258 cranks. You will need the 1mm spacer like some 258 cranks but thats not an issue at all.
The 232 crank and a .60 over will equal a 4.2L..ya ya not much gains, the gains here are the small gain in displacement, and the fact that you aren't paying to zero deck the block.
You can use any off the shelf piston for the 4.0 as well, so its cheap. Deck heights very from the factory, so its hard to say that you will end up with a zero deck, or possibly slightly under or over.
But think about it, decking the block cost about $100 or more..I was quoted $92 to do it, which is why I went with the 4.2L mini-storker. So for a few shillings more you get a bigger motor with more balls, its well worth it!

It also weighs 56lbs, the stock 4.0 cranks weighs 55lbs:) Mine weigh 55.4lbs on a digital ball room scale..so they are practially dead even...Chrysler should of used the crank from the jump honestly!


Heres the break down...
Stock 4.0 deck clearence = .0215 on average.
Stock 4.0 piston pin height = 1.601"
Stock 4.0 stroke = 3.410"

232 stroker crank = 3.500"
all aftermarket off the shelf pistons = 1.585" pin height or less;)


So, theres a .90" difference between your 2 cranks, you divide that by 2 = .045" roughly.
Take your deck clearence & subtract stroke difference, .0215 - .045 = -.0235..or pistons above deck .0235"
Now remember you pin height difference...1.601" vs tallest aftermarket piston possible to use, 1.585" = .016 difference.
You now subtract your .-0235 - .016 = .0075"..or zero deck height:)

I'm using the KB 2229 pistons which have a 1.581" pin height..Heres the 2 possible pistons to use.

KB Silvolite cast aluminium 2229/2229C----1.581" 11.5cc
Sealed Power cast aluminium 677P/677CP----1.585" 17.5cc


If you use the SP 677p/677cp & a OEM .051" head gasket, you can get by without dishing the pistons at all, and still run on 87-89octane, pending cam and such.
If you use the KB 2229 pistons, you will need premium gas even with the thicker head gasket, or to dish them out which cost around 75 bucks. A guy on jeepstrokers.com does it.
I am running a high compression setup..232 crank, 2229cp pistons, 11.5cc dish, 61cc combustion chambers..around 10:1..will run on premium just fine though, cause I have a .038 quench height & polished combustion chambers.




On a simulated dyno, my 4.2L vs my old 4.1L setup..both running the same 87-95 single pattern cam..the 4.2L made more power through out..52hp at peak & an extra 68ftlbs. from 2250 on up. It also held the torque longer without it falling off..that would at the crank of course, but its well worth the extra 100 bucks.
Because I needed new bearings & to turn the crank, it would have been cheaper to pay 150 for the 232 crank with bearings. I see you bought bearings already, but maybe you can sell them or return them...

Jeez that was a lot, but figured I'd post before it was too late. Sorry for the story.

[86-cheif]

Just to give you an idea, cause I'm sure you'll want to know....


Stock 4.0

3.410 storke
3.875 bore
58cc combustion chambers
.0215 deck height
.051 head gasket thickness
13cc piston dish
75 intake closing valve angle

8.7:1 static compression ratio
6.28:1 dynamic compression ratio
.0725 quench height
3.95L displacement




4.2L stroker on 87 octane, assuming stock cam is used & using the 677c/677cp pistons!


3.500 stroke
3.935 (.060 over) bore
58cc combustion chamber (average, I ported & polished mine to 61cc)
.000 deck height (obviously this will vary slightly, but not enough to change anything drasticly)
.043 head gasket thickness
18cc piston dish
75* intake closing valve angle

9.22:1 static compression ratio
6.73:1 dynamic compression ratio
.043 quench height
4.19L displacement



4.2L high compression, stock cam, using 2229 pistons..


3.500 stroke
3.935 (.060 over) bore
58cc combustion chamber [
.000 deck height
.043 head gasket thickness
12cc piston dish
75* intake closing valve angle

9.85:1 static compression ratio
7.17:1 dynamic compression ratio
.043 quench height
4.19L displacement




4.2L high compression, stock cam, using 2229 pistons..my personal setup.


3.500 stroke
3.935 (.060 over) bore
61.2cc combustion chamber [
-.005 deck height
.043 head gasket thickness
12cc piston dish
75* intake closing valve angle

9.96:1 static compression ratio
7.25:1 dynamic compression ratio
.038 quench height
4.19L displacement



If your pistons are more than .005 above deck, you will need to use the .051" oem head gasket vs the .043 mopar one..reason is that rods stretch slightly & pistons rock slightly, so your working with very tight tolerances and don't want the piston hitting the head..its simple though, anything more than .005 above deck, use the .051 thicker head gasket..doing so you gain .008 clearance.

You want your quench height around .o40 or slightly more.

9.2:1-9.5:1 static CR is ok for pump gas on the stock cam, pending elevation & quench.

I used LS1 valve train because the valves have tuliped under sides..which adds to the combustion chambers size, which is good! They stainless steel & are swirl polished to help flow. 2.00" intake & 1.55" exhaust and even though they are bigger, they weigh less than the stock 4.0 valve train does:cool:

Also if you polish your exhaust runners it will help keep heat & velocity up & with flow, thus making more power..and the polished combustion chambers will keep the heat on the pistons & away from the spark plug, which helps prevent detenation.
I didn't make my intake/exhaust runners bigger, I just cleaned them up, and make the valve guide bosses more round. Try to get the exhaust runners & combustion chambers super smooth, but don't take away material. It can be done with a die grinder & some sanding stones & paper rolls..finer grit ones.


With these 4.2L setups..pending the cam of course..but if the stock cam is used, you WILL get better mileage & WILL get better emissions. Reason being is its more efficient with the higher compression & tighter quench height. Idk how much mileage you will gain, but theory & physics says you will because its more efficient.

[86-cheif]

Seeing now you already have your 4.0 crank ground..And pistons and a cam....so I know it will be hard to sway you..but did you deck the block already? if so how much?

Which pistons are those?

You could sell your crank for around 100 probably or 150 with bearings maybe..and pick up a 232 crank as Dino suggested. It is worth the gains.

I'd expect around 225-235 crank HP from your current setup. A 4.2L mini stroker with that cam would be turning around 275hp at the crank, thats from the cubes & the compression increase..

Also saw speculation on polishing & such..exhaust runners & combustion chambers should be GLASS smooth. Intake runners should be polished with a 80 grit paper roll..its slightly smoother than the factory finish but still allows the swirling effect.

[Mudderoy]

Seeing now you already have your 4.0 crank ground..And pistons and a cam....so I know it will be hard to sway you..but did you deck the block already? if so how much?

Which pistons are those?

You could sell your crank for around 100 probably or 150 with bearings maybe..and pick up a 232 crank as Dino suggested. It is worth the gains.

I'd expect around 225-235 crank HP from your current setup. A 4.2L mini stroker with that cam would be turning around 275hp at the crank, thats from the cubes & the compression increase..

Also saw speculation on polishing & such..exhaust runners & combustion chambers should be GLASS smooth. Intake runners should be polished with a 80 grit paper roll..its slightly smoother than the factory finish but still allows the swirling effect.

The block was not decked. It didn't need it.

I spoke to Matt about going the stroker direction, as you suggested above. I like the idea of the HP gains, however I'm concerned that since the compression ratio would go up that it would require additional octane to make sure pre-ignition didn't occur. This is going in a 1998 and they don't have a knock sensor. Great information and thanks for taking the time to share it.!

[07Negative]

I'd love to do a stroker in my Jeep. But I've yet to hear any solid positive feed back. I love how the stoke 4.0L is solid for 200K plus miles. Not so sure a stroked 4.0L can give that.
Steve: I just finished reading FrankZ's build on NAXJA. The only think I'd do different would be the transfer case. I'd either do a Staks or a Atlas. Anything to get rid of this chain.

[Mudderoy]

Time to update...

Desc of item|Price
Crane Cams 96806-12 Valve springs - single | 52.99
Crane Cams 99948-12 Valve spring retainers | 47.99
Crane Cams 99179-1 Rocker Arm Bridge Shim | 11.60
Crane 99278-12 Anti- Pump Up Hydraulic Lifter | 75.45
Crane Cams 753901 H-260-2 Camshaft |146.20
MOPAR Pushrod x 14 | 52.50
MOPAR Rocker ARM x 12 | 60.24
112-6001 - ARP 258 6 cylinder rod bolt set | 46.99
6-3732 - Amc / jeep inline 6 240 cubic inch 4.0 liter 1991 and up stainless steel | 59.95
FKA-1 - Amc / jeep inline 6 1964 to 1996 199 to 258 cubic inch | 7.95
chbs-1128 - L6 4.0 liter head bolt set 14pcs 86 to 96 yrs 1/2 inch bolts | 44.95
Lucas Oil 10153 Assembly Lube (310383865463) | 8.99
Permatex 24240 Medium Strength Threadlocker Blue, 36 ml Bottle | 19.58
ATP 102005 Harmonic Balancer | 39.79
DORMAN 264221 Oil Pan | 60.89
DORMAN 565018 Cylinder head plug | 10.50
FEL-PRO ES70599 Fuel Injector o-rings | 6.12
OMIX-ADA 1745704 Timing Cover | 38.99
VICTOR REINZ F7549 Exhaust Seal Ring | 7.63
High Flow Thermostat Housing #HFTH | 27.95
HP GM/FORD/AMC/JEEP Thermostat 195 degree #4365 | 16.95
Breather Hose Set 4.0 Liter OEM Cherokee & Comanche 1991-1995 - 91-95 BREATHER | 17.95
AW4 Transmission Dip Stick & Tube Set OEM Cherokee 1993-2001 - AW4 DIP STICK & TUBE W/O-RING | 16.95
Front & Rear Valve Cover Vent Valve Set OEM 4.0 Liter Cherokee 1994-2001 - 94-01 FRT&REAR VENT | 8.95
Valve Cover Grommet Set 4.0 Liter Cherokee 1994-2001 | 5.95
Engine Oil Filler Cap 4.0 Liter OEM Cherokee & Comanche 1991-1995 | 7.25
Dip Stick Indicator Cherokee OEM 4.0 Liter 1991-1996 | 13.95
P5249519 Double Roller Chain and Sprock | 117.30
P4529677 Damper Attachment Package | 11.90
CARDONE SELECT 844694 (84-4694) Distributor | 66.79
ANCHOR 2572 Motor Mount x 2 | 10.90
CHAMPION 412 Spark Plug x 6 | 10.74
4.0 Block boiled/bored .060 |
4.0 Head boiled/pressure tested/milled/3 angle |
4.0 99+ Intake boiled (cleaned) | 405.00
4.0 Crank turned | 70.00
Cloyes timing damper | 5.67
Valve Cover Gasket (needed for aluminum valve cover) | 3.89
Fel-Pro Manifold Gasket (Needed for 99+ intake) | 15.45
Fel-Pro throttle body gasket (just in case) | 5.32
Mopar Gasket Sealant 12oz | 13.99
Omix-Ada Automatic Transmission Flexplate | 79.97

[Cheromaniac]

Dino Savva posted all the info up that I found, he came up with a few receipes & they are now listed on his stroker site. We are calling them mini-strokers & I'm surprised these haven't surfaced until I ask Dino..

You won't have to go far to find me 'cause I'm right here. :D I only added the mini-stroker recipes to my site recently when I discovered that there were many cheap 232 cranks looking for a new home.


I'd love to do a stroker in my Jeep. But I've yet to hear any solid positive feed back. I love how the stroke 4.0L is solid for 200K plus miles. Not so sure a stroked 4.0L can give that.

It'll probably take me 20 years to reach 200k miles on my stroker. It's done 68k miles so far and the Jeep still goes like a raped ape.

[07Negative]

I drive quite a bit so 200K miles seems to creep up way too fast. If I knew a stroker would be worth the money. I'd probably do it b/c I won't want to have to do all that work the LS motor swaps require.

[TeXJ]

You won't have to go far to find me 'cause I'm right here. :D I only added the mini-stroker recipes to my site recently when I discovered that there were many cheap 232 cranks looking for a new home.



It'll probably take me 20 years to reach 200k miles on my stroker. It's done 68k miles so far and the Jeep still goes like a raped ape.

:eek: It's Dino!!!!!! Why the name change? you are a Cherokee god!

[Mudderoy]

102

103

104

[Mudderoy]

105

106

107

108

[Cheromaniac]

Looking good.

[duckcreek]

Looking good.

X2

[XJMJeep]

Sure lookin' purdy! :thumbsup:

[Mudderoy]

Some information I just found that you may want...

Oil Filter Adapter O-Rings, Set of 3 $6.40 Mopar P/N 04720363

Oil Filter Adapter to Engine Block Bolt T60 Torx $27.14 Mopar P/N 53020237

[bluedragon436]

Coming together nicely...

[XJ Wheeler]

How about i get this one, you get the next one.:rolleye0012:

[Mudderoy]

How about i get this one, you get the next one.:rolleye0012:

I think we've been working on this a couple of months... It hasn't been a rush job or anything like that but starting to see the pay off now. No I'll stick with this one.

Ordered more parts today.

cam washer and bolt. Also ordered one of those fancy bolts that holds the oil filter adapter to the block.

[Mudderoy]

173

174

175

[TeXJ]

looking good!

[Mudderoy]

I'm in the process of having PR4 "poppy" red paint mixed as a high temp paint so we can paint the block, intake, and valve cover the same color as the body of the Jeep! Should really stand out with the high temp clear coat on it.

[TeXJ]

should paint the part of it green!

[dagr8tim]

I'm in the process of having PR4 "poppy" red paint mixed as a high temp paint so we can paint the block, intake, and valve cover the same color as the body of the Jeep! Should really stand out with the high temp clear coat on it.

It'll look great sitting at the mall. :smiley-laughing021:

[Carves]

A brightly coloured engine ...

... ought too make it a lot easier ... to track down all those, elusive 4.0l leaks ... :D


All looking very sweet Mudderoy .. :thumbsup:

[4.3LXJ]

I'm in the process of having PR4 "poppy" red paint mixed as a high temp paint so we can paint the block, intake, and valve cover the same color as the body of the Jeep! Should really stand out with the high temp clear coat on it.

Pass my my sun glasses :sign0181:

[Mudderoy]

This past weekend Matt attempted to complete the long block but ran into an issue.

177

The very nice CRANE springs and retainers are not right.

I called CRANE and was informed, "We don't make springs and retainers for the Jeep 4.0l engine..." They gave me the number to Titan Engines, the same place I purchased the .060 pistons, bearings, etc...

I spoke with Titan. He told me that I needed to go with a Chevy valve train and machine work would need to be done top and bottom on the head. I asked about using stock springs and retainers, and he said he has heard people didn't have a problem and others the valves would float at 4k rpm (with the CRANE cam I am using).

So I dug around the Internet spoke with Matt a bit and we decided that the springs and retainers are going back to JEGS for a refund and I ordered a set of stock springs from RockAuto. The head and valve train were checked out by the machine shop and good to go, so we're just going to reuse the retainers.

Matt had me order a bridge kit already, so that will be used with the stock springs and retainers. Springs were shipped out today, so Matt should have them this week I'm betting. No hurry as it going to be a lot of work (for me) once that long block is set up and we install it.

I call it a long block plus since it will have everything on it but throttle body, brackets, and sensors.

Oh and I'm teasing about the red block, it will be all black. The valve cover may be a gold color.

[Mudderoy]

Turns out that the only springs available (that will work with the other stuff) are the stock springs. So these go back and a new set of stock springs were ordered and received.

Well Matt told me a sad story of a great running 4.0 but with all, ALL, the mount points broken off one side of the block!

Knowing how heavy my right foot gets, and I've already broke at least two driver's side motor mounts so far I ordered a set of Brown Dog motor mounts.

Block side only for now.

http://browndogindustries.com/images/products/detail/S2572PCropped2.jpg

[Cheromaniac]

If you have an aftermarket cam with more than 0.430" valve lift and your valve stems have a single groove for the keepers, the following parts from Summit Racing will go straight onto the Jeep 4.0 head without any machining required on the head:

Mopar Performance DCC-5249464 valve springs
Mopar Performance DCC-4452032 retainers
Mopar Performance DCC-4529218 keepers

These valve springs are rated to 0.525" of valve lift and have the same 1.64" installed height as the stock springs.

[subsonic]

Nice Build! Like the cam choice. Looks as if it will be a good grind for a daily driver.

[Mudderoy]

Thanks for the pics Matt!

http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m639/sellitx/photobucket-26265-1343734953460.jpg

http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m639/sellitx/photobucket-59810-1343734935233.jpg

[oderdene]

who is little one behind block and what did he/she doing :D

[msmoorenburg]

who is little one behind block and what did he/she doing :D

my little gremlin and he is inspecting the work

[Mudderoy]

who is little one behind block and what did he/she doing :D

That just goes to show you my priorities. I never saw those feet! :D

[XJ4IV]

so ALL in all whats the parts total thus far? and uhhhh matt... the labor total as well LOL

[Mudderoy]

so ALL in all whats the parts total thus far? and uhhhh matt... the labor total as well LOL

When I called a company about rebuilding my 4.0 they wanted $4000 installed, and it would take 3 to 4 weeks.

This will cost about $2000 installed but you can add about another $1000 to that because I'm going about 99% new on this engine. Fly wheel, intake, motor mounts, header, harmonic balancer, water pump, pretty much everything but the brackets.

The second one should be about $1700 installed. We'll be rebuilding the 1998 4.0l and I'm leaning towards putting it in the 2003 Wrangler right now.

[msmoorenburg]

so ALL in all whats the parts total thus far? and uhhhh matt... the labor total as well LOL

Scott to be honest price doesn't matter if you want it done right the first time. I think I have about $700 in my rebuild. Now Tony on the other hand if he could get it new he did. As far as Labor I have no clue.

[ArmyGuy45]

Wish I had the knowledge and the money to do this on my own. Sweet write up!

[4.3LXJ]

Wish I had the knowledge and the money to do this on my own. Sweet right up!

Stick around Matt, you will acquire it. :driving:

[ArmyGuy45]

Stick around Matt, you will acquire it. :driving:

I have already learned a lot from this site. Should of bought the 97 I saw for sale vs the 01. Should of found a stick instead of settling on an auto. I would love to do the work myself but I am not a welder and have little experience with fixing vehicles. I hope to learn a lot more from here!

[4.3LXJ]

Matt, somewhere on base there are welders. Go hang around them and buy them a beer

[prcjeep]

I have already learned a lot from this site. Should of bought the 97 I saw for sale vs the 01. Should of found a stick instead of settling on an auto. I would love to do the work myself but I am not a welder and have little experience with fixing vehicles. I hope to learn a lot more from here!

Matt, Everything I have learned about and replaced on my Jeep is because of XJTALK.com. My cousin just the other day asked me how I got to know so much about cars and I said, "it started when I got my Jeep." There are still things I dont want to do because I havent worked on it before but I know that I would figure it out. Soon enough you'll know it ALL! Like I do.(When msmoorenburg's around) :D

[ArmyGuy45]

Matt, somewhere on base there are welders. Go hang around them and buy them a beer

Germany has stupid laws about where you can work on your stuff. I have to work in a shop so lifts cost money. But I will see what I can do. Thanks for the help.

[msmoorenburg]

Matt, Everything I have learned about and replaced on my Jeep is because of XJTALK.com. My cousin just the other day asked me how I got to know so much about cars and I said, "it started when I got my Jeep." There are still things I dont want to do because I havent worked on it before but I know that I would figure it out. Soon enough you'll know it ALL! Like I do.(When msmoorenburg's around) :D

ha, It's great to talk a good game. Really its good to have good teachers :)

[XJ4IV]

Scott to be honest price doesn't matter if you want it done right the first time. I think I have about $700 in my rebuild. Now Tony on the other hand if he could get it new he did. As far as Labor I have no clue.

well the reason Im asking is not to see what others are spending their money on... its only to see what my penny jar needs before considering doing the rebuild! I took mine to the shop today and had a test done on it and it has an expanded head gasket leak... which meant that when I run it on the highway the head and the block expand enough to cause a leak but when I drive it under 3000RPMs it runs alrightno overheat no leaking no issues which I GUESS is fine since its offroad only now but yeah I still plan on rebuilding it all!

[msmoorenburg]

well the reason Im asking is not to see what others are spending their money on... its only to see what my penny jar needs before considering doing the rebuild! I took mine to the shop today and had a test done on it and it has an expanded head gasket leak... which meant that when I run it on the highway the head and the block expand enough to cause a leak but when I drive it under 3000RPMs it runs alrightno overheat no leaking no issues which I GUESS is fine since its offroad only now but yeah I still plan on rebuilding it all!

Well if ya jump on it a guy on cl has a 80k motor in Magnolia for $280 it would be a great builder or a good one to get ya by

[Mudderoy]

well the reason Im asking is not to see what others are spending their money on... its only to see what my penny jar needs before considering doing the rebuild! I took mine to the shop today and had a test done on it and it has an expanded head gasket leak... which meant that when I run it on the highway the head and the block expand enough to cause a leak but when I drive it under 3000RPMs it runs alrightno overheat no leaking no issues which I GUESS is fine since its offroad only now but yeah I still plan on rebuilding it all!

Matt's $700 engine is great. The only thing I would have done different is put the $130 CAM that I got in it. I'm going nearly new on mine for two reasons. I want to minimize the time it will take to swap engines, and having the stuff on both engines will do that, and having as much as new as possible I'll have less trouble with it longer.

In fact the 1998 rebuild (the one we are taking out) will be like Matt's $700 rebuild but with the Crane CAM I mentioned above.

[Mudderoy]

Matt busted a$$ today...

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[4x4Dalton]

Yep he did I was there to.Matt knows what hes doin thats for sure.Couldnt ask or have a better teacher when it comes time to work on mine engine wise.Tonys motor is gonna be one clean great motor when its done.:thumbsup:And got to meet the Bossman today to had a good time out at the shop learnin.

[Mudderoy]

Yep he did I was there to.Matt knows what hes doin thats for sure.Couldnt ask or have a better teacher when it comes time to work on mine engine wise.Tonys motor is gonna be one clean great motor when its done.:thumbsup:And got to meet the Bossman today to had a good time out at the shop learnin.

Sorry big guy I was tried when I posted I was really tired. You know how the heat and a 70 mile drive really takes it of ya?

Thank you for all your help today.

[4x4Dalton]

Oh trust me I know bout the heat lol.Was great to meet and talk to ya today Tony.

[XJ4IV]

so is THAT the higly sought after intake manifold? Ive seen like three or four different intakes and never knew WHICH is the one that is the most beneficial!

[msmoorenburg]

so is THAT the higly sought after intake manifold? Ive seen like three or four different intakes and never knew WHICH is the one that is the most beneficial!

Nope its this one :sign0181:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y299/msmoorenburg/photobucket-17595-1334459081772.jpg

[XJ4IV]

Nope its this one :sign0181:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y299/msmoorenburg/photobucket-17595-1334459081772.jpg

I dig it!!! I wanna find a powder coater so I can do my head and intake and valve cover

[Mudderoy]

Matt shared an update with me...

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This coming Friday....

[XJ4IV]

I wanna hear that thing fire up! where did you find that exhaust manifold?

[Mudderoy]

I wanna hear that thing fire up! where did you find that exhaust manifold?

Once the engine is in, we're going to put it on the trailer and take it to the Conroe mall. We'll start it there. Seems to be the right thing to do. :patriot:

Dunno, somewhere online. May have been 1A Auto (one of our vendors).

[Carves]

Matt shared an update with me...


Very purdyyy .. :cool: .. :thumbsup:



Once the engine is in, we're going to put it on the trailer and take it to the Conroe mall. We'll start it there. Seems to be the right thing to do. :patriot:


:D:D

[straightsixjeep]

Just spend the last hour reading this thread, HOLY COW AWESOME. Looks like I subbed right in time, I cant tell you how bad I want to hear that 4.0 scream.

[XJ4IV]

lol i think it was screamin just before it went under the knife

[Mudderoy]

This Friday, the 24th, is engine swap day.

Driving from Katy to Conroe(ish) early Friday morning to Matt's shop. After a hour or so cool down we'll get going on it, and hopefully I'll be driving home in the afternoon, or early evening.

Pictures to follow.

[bluedragon436]

Video of first startup or it didn't happen!! LOL JK... Can't wait to see the pics and feedback from the first drive!!

[Mudderoy]

Video of first startup or it didn't happen!! LOL JK... Can't wait to see the pics and feedback from the first drive!!

Nothing personal but if I know it happens that's the only thing that's important. :drinking:

[OrangeXJ]

This Friday, the 24th, is engine swap day.

Driving from Katy to Conroe(ish) early Friday morning to Matt's shop. After a hour or so cool down we'll get going on it, and hopefully I'll be driving home in the afternoon, or early evening.

Pictures to follow.

Good luck with the 1 day turn around they come out a lot easyer than they go back in. Changed the engine in my sons XJ and my TJ and it was about 3-4 days each after the engine was pulled. On the TJ day 1 pulled engine and took all the parts we needed for the long block. Day 2 cleaned parts and installed on the long block. Day3 install and hook up engine. Day 4 finished hooking everything up timeing was off messed with that most of the day (PITA) to set timing got it running. Day 5 drove it home. But if anyome can pull off a 1 day engine swap matt can

[Mudderoy]

Good luck with the 1 day turn around they come out a lot easyer than they go back in. Changed the engine in my sons XJ and my TJ and it was about 3-4 days each after the engine was pulled. On the TJ day 1 pulled engine and took all the parts we needed for the long block. Day 2 cleaned parts and installed on the long block. Day3 install and hook up engine. Day 4 finished hooking everything up timeing was off messed with that most of the day (PITA) to set timing got it running. Day 5 drove it home. But if anyome can pull off a 1 day engine swap matt can

The long block will need alt bracket, power steering bracket, coil bracket and a/c bracket. Fuel rail and injectors. Throttle body with all the sensors. Clutch, fan, belt, hoses.

Everything else will be on the long block. The long block is complete from flexplate, intake and exhaust. Even the water pump, thermostat and thermostat housing are on there, including a new distributor.

The goal was to have as much of it together before hand. I'm hoping this means time and mistake savings, but this is why we're doing it on a Friday.

[OrangeXJ]

The long block will need alt bracket, power steering bracket, coil bracket and a/c bracket. Fuel rail and injectors. Throttle body with all the sensors. Clutch, fan, belt, hoses.

Everything else will be on the long block. The long block is complete from flexplate, intake and exhaust. Even the water pump, thermostat and thermostat housing are on there, including a new distributor.

The goal was to have as much of it together before hand. I'm hoping this means time and mistake savings, but this is why we're doing it on a Friday.

you are a head of the game we had to install all that stuff after the engine was out

[Mudderoy]

BTW I'm pretty sure the new exhaust manifold (header) I installed a few years ago is also cracked. I think it happened out at Creekside.

So I'm looking forward to NOT hearing exhaust, well except from the rumbly muffler. :D

[OrangeXJ]

:D:D:D

[Mudderoy]

you are a head of the game we had to install all that stuff after the engine was out

Oh I forgot starter... :( Yeah I know how all the little things that go really fast individually really add to your time. I spent a lot more money on this engine than I had to for two reasons.

1) I wanted a as close to new engine as I could get it (with a rebuild)
2) Eliminate a lot of the little stuff to speed up installation.

[OrangeXJ]

Oh I forgot starter... :( Yeah I know how all the little things that go really fast individually really add to your time. I spent a lot more money on this engine than I had to for two reasons.

1) I wanted a as close to new engine as I could get it (with a rebuild)
2) Eliminate a lot of the little stuff to speed up installation.

Being an ex industrial engine mechinic I found the little things took the most time mostly cleaning parts that are going to be re used and putting them on

[Mudderoy]

Being an ex industrial engine mechinic I found the little things took the most time mostly cleaning parts that are going to be re used and putting them on

I have some degreasing stuff I'm going to spray and rinse the stuff off with before driving up. It will still be dirty just not as bad. The alternator is less than a year old as is the starter. The starter gets REALLY dirty, I know from when I changed it in the parking lot here at work. lol

[OrangeXJ]

another thing that slowed us down was we took the intake/exhaust off and left it in the jeep pita to hook up. I think I saw a pic where yours is allready installed will be much easyer

[Mudderoy]

another thing that slowed us down was we took the intake/exhaust off and left it in the jeep pita to hook up. I think I saw a pic where yours is allready installed will be much easyer

Yep I remember reading back when I was going to change the exhaust manifold, that the only correct want to install the exhaust header was to remove the head, bolt and torque the intake/exhaust manifold to the head then re-install the head.

Replacing that exhaust manifold was tough.

[NW99XJ]

There are a couple of bolts that are a PITA to get to, but other than that, its not too bad. I did my exhaust manifold with the head still on. The INTAKE manifold has to come off, but that's about it. I did it myself, no help, in an afternoon.... never having done anything like that before. (well I take that back, I did do a complete tear down and rebuild of my first motorcycle engine.... so I guess that's KIND-OF similar...)

[Mudderoy]

There are a couple of bolts that are a PITA to get to, but other than that, its not too bad. I did my exhaust manifold with the head still on. The INTAKE manifold has to come off, but that's about it. I did it myself, no help, in an afternoon.... never having done anything like that before. (well I take that back, I did do a complete tear down and rebuild of my first motorcycle engine.... so I guess that's KIND-OF similar...)

Oh same here (except the motorcycle stuff). I was looking at a set of long handled wrenches before doing it again. There isn't much room and reaching up on a lifted rig made for really slow going.

[XJ Wheeler]

Gettin close! I bet you'll be glad to have that finally sparkling underhood. I wish i could come and help out. Good luck with the swap you guys.

[oderdene]

Gettin close! I bet you'll be glad to have that finally sparkling underhood. I wish i could come and help out. Good luck with the swap you guys.

X2, good luck bros

[XJ4IV]

... I didnt have ANY issues replacing my exhaust mani with everything still attached..
I was able to get to the lower bolts from UNDER the jeep really easily.. I THINK I did this while I had the axle out though

[4x4Dalton]

Gonna try to be there for the afternoon part of all this.If not I got my fingers toes and eyes crossed for a easy swap.:driving:

[Mudderoy]

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[XJ4IV]

it has begun!!!

[NW99XJ]

Hope everything has gone smoothly.... whats the status?

[XJ Wheeler]

Hope everything has gone smoothly.... whats the status?

X2!?!?

[Mudderoy]

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First start attempt, no go. 180 degrees out. I told Matt we had a 50/50 chance why does it have to be his 50 and not mine. Anyway corrected the distributor rotation, re-stabbed the distributor and started up on the 2nd try.

Died after 10 or 15 seconds.

Put the radiator in etc... so the transmission fluid wouldn't run all over the floor, filled with water and ran it longer. Giving it gas would cause it to stumble and back fire, timing issue.

Matt messed with it for an hour, then we took it for a test drive around the neighborhood, a few miles, but around 40 mph. Fine no problems.

Matt took it out on the main drag and it had power problems, along with lower than expected vacuum readings.

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He messed with it quite a bit Saturday verifying several things, including that the timing was set right between the crank and cam, yep he removed the entire front of the engine to check it. It's perfect.

So we're going to make a call to Titan engines tomorrow and confirm what we think the issue is, and it's all Crane CAM related.

Matt believes he just needs to put in more bridge to raise the rockers a bit. The valves may not be closing completely leading to lower at idle vacuum and loss of power. It's not enough to effect the smooth idle or cause it to backfire through the throttle body though.

Basically he's tweaking it to get it just right.

Total time from start to first engine start, about 10 hours.

[OrangeXJ]

It's doting the I's and crossing the T's that kick your a@@ geting the timing right on mine kicked our a3@@

[Mudderoy]

It's doting the I's and crossing the T's that kick your a@@ geting the timing right on mine kicked our a3@@

Well I'll take the hit on this one. Matt's engine he has in the 1997 didn't have these problems, but his is all stock. :D

[4.3LXJ]

10 hours is lightning fast

[Mudderoy]

10 hours is lightning fast

Just now reviewing the video, looks like it was closer to 12 hours.

[Mudderoy]

http://youtu.be/-RGNxvm8ScU

[4.3LXJ]

Just now reviewing the video, looks like it was closer to 12 hours.

OK, semi lightning fast:p

[bigjim350]

I was over there helping matt yesterday. The motor does sound healthy but has no power. For sure a timing issue. I did some work on the motor yesterday too....may or may not be a green part in there.......:D

[Mudderoy]

Okay so the update on the 4.1L engine.

Matt replaced the CPS yesterday and all backfires, etc... are gone.

There is a problem with CRANE lifters that they recommend to be used with this CRANE CAM. They are noisy also we're not seeing the power we would expect out of this engine.

After speaking with the Titan Engine guy we are going to replace the CRANE lifters with stock lifters that aren't anti pump bleed down lifters.

The new lifters and head gasket will be in later this week.

[NW99XJ]

Bad CPS huh?
Now was that the CAM position sensor, or the CRANK position sensor.....

[Mudderoy]

Bad CPS huh?
Now was that the CAM position sensor, or the CRANK position sensor.....

CPS = Cranks position sensor
CMP = CAM position sensor

[Carves]

Good to see it all coming together Mudderoy ...

Little glitches are to be expected in a major build with mods .. ;)





Bad CPS huh?
Now was that the CAM position sensor, or the CRANK position sensor.....


heh heh ... Theres that many variations - Ive given up on the abbrev ... and stick with cam sensor ... and crank sensor ... ;)

[Mudderoy]

Good to see it all coming together Mudderoy ...

Little glitches are to be expected in a major build with mods .. ;)







heh heh ... Theres that many variations - Ive given up on the abbrev ... and stick with cam sensor ... and crank sensor ... ;)

I have 3 CPS sensors. The original with 150k miles on it. A new one I got from ebay for $40 and was acting funky with the Firewire Ignition system, and really new Chrysler $130 CPS, that I recently took off and put on the original factory one to see if it would change the #1 cylinder misfire I was getting. It didn't. So I grabbed 2 of the 3 CPS sensors and thinking that the 2nd one was the newest one we installed it. WRONG! Must have been that funky one. So the factory original is back on until I can find the 3rd one and new one. :rotfl2:

Just gotta learn to stop changing so many things at one time. It will bite you on the a$$ every time!

[NW99XJ]

CPS = Cranks position sensor
CMP = CAM position sensor

gotchya..... I've heard more than a few people refer to the cam sensor as the CPS as well, i guess I need to go re-read my FSM......it always comes down to that dreaded task of RTFM.....:)
>
So you think you might find a local shop with a Dyno just to get some official numbers when this is all said and done?

[Mudderoy]

gotchya..... I've heard more than a few people refer to the cam sensor as the CPS as well, i guess I need to go re-read my FSM......it always comes down to that dreaded task of RTFM.....:)
>
So you think you might find a local shop with a Dyno just to get some official numbers when this is all said and done?

Never even thought about it. I'll know the improvement as soon as I start driving it.

[NW99XJ]

The good ol' "seat-o-the-pants-ometer"
I've used that several times.

[Mudderoy]

Okay would you like to know why the 4.1L isn't making power, and why it's running hot?

The matched set of CRANE lifters aren't. 4 of the lifters are a good 1/16th of an inch shorter than the rest.

So now we need not only lifters, which are sitting there ready to go in, but we need a CAM as well.

Ordered another one from Amazon overnight delivery...

Sending the damaged CAM and wrong lifters back to Amazon for a refund.

:yack:

[Brasscatz]

Don't you just love it when things aren't as advertised? First your ARB locker, then this... May the Jeep Gods smile upon you!!!

[NW99XJ]

Well everything happens in three's I guess, ...so now you should be in the clear!
I'll keep my fingers crossed for ya man. Hope this last push goes smoother.

[Mudderoy]

Fun with lifters...

http://xjtalk.com/images/special/4.0-rebuild/crane-lifter1.jpg

http://xjtalk.com/images/special/4.0-rebuild/crane-lifter2.jpg

http://xjtalk.com/images/special/4.0-rebuild/crane-lifter3.jpg

http://xjtalk.com/images/special/4.0-rebuild/crane-lifter4.jpg

http://xjtalk.com/images/special/4.0-rebuild/crane-lifter5.jpg

[4.3LXJ]

Man, looks like you took out the cam with a couple of those lifters. I have never seen them gouged like that.

[msmoorenburg]

Fun with lifters...


http://xjtalk.com/images/special/4.0-rebuild/crane-lifter2.jpg

\

New lifter top right

[NW99XJ]

Daaaang!!! So was that thing clackin and makin a bunch of noise when you fired it up? Looking at some of those old lifters I cant imagine how it wouldn't have. That third one down on the far right looks like one of the cam lobes dented it up pretty good.

[Mudderoy]

Okay so I've spoken to CRANE, and now Matt has spoken to CRANE. CRANE says this is a classic example of "wash out".

The tech agreed that the lifters and CAM need to be replaced.

CAM should be at Matt's house tomorrow (Amazon just updated the delivery date), and I'm feeling pretty confident that this is the issue for the running warm and low power situation.

As far as the tech says, he stops short of saying the lifters weren't made correctly. It is possible that the box of 12 lifters that I got from Amazon was a return and perhaps the lifters weren't all the same type. I would hope that Amazon wouldn't resell a return, but I really don't know how they handle that.

CRANE couldn't explain the height difference between the lifters.

Matt found out that even though we'll be sending the lifters and cam back to Amazon, they will be sent back to CRANE. So maybe we'll have more information once CRANE has them, sort of a ending to this part of the story.

I know I'd like to know what the manufacturer thinks was the problem.

[NW99XJ]

Do you think you'll get any feedback from the manufacturers?
At this point i'm sure you just want to hear it fire and run right.

[Mudderoy]

Do you think you'll get any feedback from the manufacturers?
At this point i'm sure you just want to hear it fire and run right.

Well I have the tech support guy's e-mail address. I'll probably e-mail him in a month and see if he has the parts and what he found. I'm afraid I may not hear anything other than it wasn't broken in correctly. There's a certain amount of liability and at the very least bad press associated with any other line.

Still that wouldn't explain why the lifters were different heights.

[4.3LXJ]

Tony, one thing I noticed was that the lifters that were gouged by the cam could not have been rotating. Probably too tight which would confirm your valves not closing all the way.

[Mudderoy]

Tony, one thing I noticed was that the lifters that were gouged by the cam could not have been rotating. Probably too tight which would confirm your valves not closing all the way.

Matt spun them as he put them in. Also those lifters were physically shorter (noticed after removal) so them spinning wouldn't have been a problem. More than likely the CAM was slapping them.

[4.3LXJ]

What I meant is that the camshaft was not spinning them. They are a little off set to the cam so they will spin a little with every lift and not have that problem.

[msmoorenburg]

What I meant is that the camshaft was not spinning them. They are a little off set to the cam so they will spin a little with every lift and not have that problem.


No question that they didn't spin the question is why do we have different size lifters. the "taller than stock" had no issues but the "gouged/washed out ones" didn't spin if it they did why did they wear a cup into the lifter, also it wasn't just intake or exhaust and they were across the motor not just isolated to 1 or two cly

[4.3LXJ]

Good question. I wasn't there so I would only speculate. Too tight?

[Mudderoy]

Camshaft #2 has entered the building...

507

[4.3LXJ]

So where is Elvis?

[Mudderoy]

So where is Elvis?

He went back to his home planet.

[4.3LXJ]

He went back to his home planet.

Dang, I wanted to catch a ride :bang:

[dagr8tim]

So where is Elvis?

Maybe that should be Tony's new nickname.

[4.3LXJ]

Nah, he can't move his pelvis like Elvis :D

[Mudderoy]

Nah, he can't move his pelvis like Elvis :D

Steve, we agree not to speak of this in public. :bang:

[4.3LXJ]

Shhhhhhh. don't let the cat out of the bag :D

[XJ Wheeler]

Wheres the "thank you, thank you very much" button?

[Brasscatz]

So where is Elvis?

He left the building ;)

[Mudderoy]

Ordered before we "knew" why the motor was running warm, but still a good thing!

http://www.championradiators.com/files/3542644/uploaded/1193AE.jpg

American Eagle All Aluminum Radiator
2-Row Core, 1" Tubes
600hp Rating

AE1193
CORE 11" Tall x 31 1/4" Wide
Total 13 ½" incl cap Tall x 36" Wide
Pin Mounted, Direct fit
Transmission Cooler Included
Radiator Cap Included

:link: (http://www.championradiators.com/product/AE1193)

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[Brasscatz]

Oooooo! Shiny! Me likey! You must've bought the last one... their site says "Out of Stock"!!!

[Mudderoy]

Oooooo! Shiny! Me likey! You must've bought the last one... their site says "Out of Stock"!!!

My mistake, have a look at racewayparts.com

[Brasscatz]

My mistake, have a look at racewayparts.com

Yep, that's better ;) I can't wait to find out how well that bad boy works!

[XJ Wheeler]

Ordered before we "knew" why the motor was running warm, but still a good thing!

http://www.championradiators.com/files/3542644/uploaded/1193AE.jpg

American Eagle All Aluminum Radiator
2-Row Core, 1" Tubes
600hp Rating

AE1193
CORE 11" Tall x 31 1/4" Wide
Total 13 ½" incl cap Tall x 36" Wide
Pin Mounted, Direct fit
Transmission Cooler Included
Radiator Cap Included

:link: (http://www.championradiators.com/product/AE1193)

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Now that looks NICE. A review after a while would be very good of you muddy, pleeeease.:rolleye0012:

[dagr8tim]

Is it bolt on for a 97+ XJ?

[Mudderoy]

Now that looks NICE. A review after a while would be very good of you muddy, pleeeease.:rolleye0012:

Oh of course. :D

[Mudderoy]

msmoorenburg reports all pre-loads within spec, running fine. Still heating up to 220 though. Figures there must be air in the cooling system still. So it won't be home until tomorrow.

Pictures and video to follow. :thumbsup:

[XJ4IV]

Ordered before we "knew" why the motor was running warm, but still a good thing!

http://www.championradiators.com/files/3542644/uploaded/1193AE.jpg

American Eagle All Aluminum Radiator
2-Row Core, 1" Tubes
600hp Rating

AE1193
CORE 11" Tall x 31 1/4" Wide
Total 13 ½" incl cap Tall x 36" Wide
Pin Mounted, Direct fit
Transmission Cooler Included
Radiator Cap Included

:link: (http://www.championradiators.com/product/AE1193)

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holy crap I like that.... wish Id seen that one three years ago when I bought that 3 row... I bet this one will keep a drink cold all day long!

[Mudderoy]

http://youtu.be/ImSHb74LLzg

Since it was still running around 220 we didn't want to risk having it over heat during the 60 mile trip to my house, so Matt put it on the trailer and dropped it off today.

My of my does that engine run smooth. It's strange because it can't really feel it running. It's still running a little warm, but we'll see how that works out over the next few weeks while I break it in.

If I turn the A/C off and run the electric fan (on bypass) it doesn't get any warmer than 210, and drops to around 203 while driving about 45 mph.

More to come...

[Jeepster19]

holy crap I like that.... wish Id seen that one three years ago when I bought that 3 row... I bet this one will keep a drink cold all day long!

I want one!Beautiful job of welding on that radiator.I'm sure it's all done by a machine though...

[XJ Wheeler]

Baby comes home:rotfl2:

Must be a gooood feeling.

I'm guessing you're going to get through the break-in before you race it?

[bigjim350]

Hmmm a red jeep towed home by something White......seems fitting :D

[4.3LXJ]

Hey Tony, try the little hole in the tstat and see if you can get the air out

[msmoorenburg]

Hey Tony, try the little hole in the tstat and see if you can get the air out

It has a hole in the top of the tstat. One item that has be buggered is the heater core takes for ever to get warm.

[4.3LXJ]

No flow, is the water pump right?

[Mudderoy]

No flow, is the water pump right?

Bolt holes don't line up if it's upside down, so I think so. :D

Matt didn't like the HiFlow so he took the nearly new one off the 98 engine and put it on the new motor. Just for grins I verified the belt run yesterday, even though I don't think it could be run incorrectly.

I think the hiflow water pump will go back on soon, but since it's still running warm at 50 mph I don't think the hiflow will fix that.

I'm going to flush the heater core tonight, it is blocked. Then I have that dual row all aluminum radiator, I'll get it fixed.

[msmoorenburg]

No flow, is the water pump right?

The feed line gets nice and hot and the return line luke warm. When the heater is on full tilt, and being 89 outside it should run you out of the jeep in mins. Not 30mins later (that's if the windows are up)

[4.3LXJ]

Matt, this is sounding more and more like a water pump issue and that it is running backwards.

[Mudderoy]

537

538

That was just blowing out the water. After the CLR sat in there for about 15 minutes I flushed it with lots of water, hooked the lines back up and ran the engine for 5 or 10 minutes, then...

539

At 1,900 rpm it runs 140 degrees out the vent.

[bluedragon436]

I can vouch for that method working quite well for flushing the heater core!! I have done that a few times... hopefully this coming year it won't be necessary since everything in the cooling system is new, with the exception of the heater core...

[Brasscatz]

537

538

That was just blowing out the water. After the CLR sat in there for about 15 minutes I flushed it with lots of water, hooked the lines back up and ran the engine for 5 or 10 minutes, then...

539

At 1,900 rpm it runs 140 degrees out the vent.

Nicely done! Test drive it yet?

[Mudderoy]

Nicely done! Test drive it yet?

No, but I'm not a believer. lol All I think I have done is fixed the heater for the upcoming winter.

In the driveway it ran 204 degrees with the A/C on full and wouldn't budge from there.

[msmoorenburg]

Matt, this is sounding more and more like a water pump issue and that it is running backwards.

Well its his original pump that worked great on the old engine

[NW99XJ]

So are you running a high zinc "break-in-oil" for the time being?
Babying it until everything's seated nice and good?

[4.3LXJ]

Well its his original pump that worked great on the old engine

Well, OK. Hate to ask a stupid question, but the belt on right?

[Mudderoy]

Well, OK. Hate to ask a stupid question, but the belt on right?

I may have already posted (not sure if it was in this post) but I checked that. Not a stupid question at all.

[msmoorenburg]

I may have already posted (not sure if it was in this post) but I checked that. Not a stupid question at all.

here is what i did :)

http://autorepair.about.com/library/graphics/78227143.gif

[Mudderoy]

New engine symptoms...

I've got about 300 miles on the new engine now.

I've noticed a lack of power, primarily between 3k and 4k rpm. Occasionally I'll get a stumble in the engine, like it's shutting off. It doesn't happen very often and I've only noticed it around 40 mph in level flight, and once while going up the ramps in the parking garage.

I tried changing the CMP sensor (the one in the distributor) on Sunday. Yesterday on the way home I got a P1391. It's possible that it could be the sensor I put in, but I really think it's a CPS issue.

So I'll be picking up a new Chrysler CPS, CMP tonight.

I'm also going to have a close look at the harness to make sure we didn't mess up any of the wires running from the sensors to the ECM.

I drove the TJ to work today, so the XJ will be stone cold this evening after getting the sensors. Also I didn't want to be 20 miles from the house and have the CPS stop working completely.

Strangely the power started returning about Wednesday last week. Then it would come and go. Monday it seemed fine until I got the CEL then it was back the way it was when I first started driving it. Takes forever to go from 3k to 4k rpm. Just a lot of engine spinning and not much go.

Gas mileage is horrible as well. I got 170 miles out of a tank of gas! I'll have the exact mpg once I fill her up.

[Mudderoy]

Okay so I got the parts ordered and HEY they had them in stock! So I went buy the dealership to pick them up...

622

I got a Chrysler CPS, CMP and CTS! I'll change the CTS (Coolant Temperature Sensor) later. That's just something Matt wanted me to change, he can wait! :P

After getting the CPS and CMP installed I went in and cleaned up. It was actually not to bad out there tonight, no fan and I really didn't get hot.

I knew I was low on gas, so I thought I better go get some before taking it on a test run in the 3k to 4k rpm range.

The gas station is almost right across the street from the neighborhood.

The light changed and I hit it anyway! Accelerated nicely then about 1/2 way to the gas station I lost power. Engine was still running though.

I coasted into the gas station. I had a running engine but no throttle response.

I stopped at the pump. The engine sputtered and died.

Now did I run out of gas or did what ever problem I was having with the horse power problem get a lot worse?!?!?!

I stayed calm and reminded myself that I knew it was very low on fuel.

I started putting the gas in. After about a minute I went ahead and tried to start it. It fired right up.

I got 18.9 gallons in the tank!!!! That's the most ever!

Took it out for a spin. Seems to be running well, but when I hit 4200 rpm in 1st gear it seems to just stop there. 2nd gear it powers on through that rpm. I'll just have to use the Jeep and see.

I did clear the P1391 CEL so it may be as simple as the ECM is just relearning right now.

[NW99XJ]

Well that sounds promising!
The ECM's adaptive memory "re-learning process" can make the engine run like crap for a while.
When I did some sensor changes a while back, I went for about a week with the jeep running poorly. Best thing to do is just drive it. And put it thru as many heat cycles as you can.

[Mudderoy]

Things are very much improved, however the overall horse power is not there. This morning I ran it up to 4,200 rpm and the check engine light came on.

Yep, P1391 again.