To snorkel or not to snorkel, that is the question...

[Mudderoy]

On my list of things to do was to add a snorkel to my Jeep.

I originally was looking at the Safari snorkel but I was concerned about how it would interact with my bushwacker flares.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e55/michaelbrandonw/IMAG0058.jpg

I guess it depends on how far up you mount the bushwackers. From the above picture I see it can be done but I wonder if this Jeeper installed them both at the same time. When I wrote Bushwacker they said there was an interference issue that may require slight trimming of the bushwacker flares.

So I looked a little more and found the AirFlow snorkel. Which fit nicely with the bushwacker flares.

http://www.dpgoff-road.com/images/products/KMcGeeJeep.jpg

So at this point (other than the extreme price for molded plastic) I feel that I have a good choice for a snorkel, and I'm considering placing the order but I am concerned that I may be just getting another gadget for the Jeep that I won't use.

Certainly I don't WANT to use the snorkel for going through deep water, but boy it would be nice to have it if I had to. I mean we have recently seen what high water driving can do to a Jeep's automatic transmission. Of course there are things that can be done to help keep the H2O out of the AW4, which would be my eventual goal.

My Jeep, while fun, has been built up primarily because I want a vehicle that I can get my family out of harms way. To that end a snorkel would help even if using it killed the other parts of the Jeep eventually. I mean I'm willing to sacrifice my beloved Jeep to save myself and my family. Besides Jeeps can be rebuild, or another purchased.

Several years ago, 15 I guess, flooding in the Houston area was common. Maybe once every couple of years. Usually tropical, but sometimes just a good old fashioned front. Not so now. It doesn't mean it won't happen again, just isn't happening. Living through many of these floods and many times just being an idiot and driving around in them because I could made me put a snorkel on my list.

So what do you think? Not considering the cost, but just the functionality of having a snorkel as insurance, should I add one to the red menace?

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Vfv-kTEcFnc/TqROtXgHQpI/AAAAAAAABao/wEmg9Dzvuwo/s912/2011-10-23%25252012.20.16.jpg

[Carves]

Ohh ... just buy one ...and dont bother hooking it up ... it'll look purdy anyways ...

:D


Personally ... Im not a fan of either of em ...

Like you .. Its the price of a bit of plastic that is the initial turn off ... but ...

Ones got so many bends and twists in the joiner tube ... I wonder whether flow is actually adequate in all circumstances .... and the other requires chopping into the reinforcing folds of the inner guard, from what Ive seen.

Funny how something originally intended as a cleaner air intake morphed into a puddle play tool. ;) ...... damn silastic .... :D


Which prompts the question to address in regard to your needs I guess ...

Do you want to splash around in puddles like an epilectic duck ... or, or, ... or cantab .. :rotfl2:

..... or are you just looking at slowly/carefully, dealing with high water levels at a creek crossing or a flooded road ??

First case will dictate a snorkle arrangement probably ...

... and the second could be addressed with a higher air inlet in the engine bay .... maybe at your cowl scoop inlet ... or into the plenum chamber ??

The factory airbox intake - is in a cow of a spot ... but Ive had no issues to date, just poking steady steady - through water at headlight level, with only a small tarp tied over the front.

.... and I always walk a crossing so theres no surprises ;)

[DETOURS]

Build an under the hood cowl snorkle for just a few bucks, they work great, and you dont have a hunk of over priced plastic on your Jeep.

[K-SKI]

ive been thinking about the same thing but i dont cross high water EVER but would like the thought of knowing that if i ever have to that i can. if the price is what holds u back there are two options: first you could do like stated above and custom make a cowl snorkel or you could go even further and make your own version of a ARB or AIRFLOW snorkel out of 3" pvc it dosent look as fancy but if u take your time and do it right it can acutualy turn out very nice. this is the route i was going to take only because i can afford one of the snorkels mentioned above and its something that i can take pride in and say that i made that.

there are a lot of threads on Cherokeeforum.com on this topic and if u want i can dig some up if u like

[gary63]

you could do like some people do is biuld one that comes out the front . and you just put it on when you need it.or we have two guy i know that install 2 reves scoops up by the windshild but in the hood.I'm thinking that is the way I may do. one of them made the intakes so you can turn them for road or turn it around for water crossing.

[cantab27]

tony i don't really think ya need one ... as carves says a cover in front of grill if ya had to cross deep water....if its gonna flood ya going to get notice to move anyways...what price are you looking at for a airflow one..tis what i have and cant fault it ,,has taken a few knocks.....they do work as you can see by that pic of that kiwi drowning his,,,no engine problems.......my new jeep has one on as do most 4wds down here as we always have rivers to cross when wheeling....you mentioned about keeping water outta the trans ...do you know something i don't....?????

on a side note ,, don't quote me but airflow ones are a prick to mount with abs ,,,i don't have abs...worth looking into if you do decide to buy one...

[DETOURS]

http://youtu.be/UU8RqmEXrf8

[Mudderoy]

ive been thinking about the same thing but i dont cross high water EVER but would like the thought of knowing that if i ever have to that i can. if the price is what holds u back there are two options: first you could do like stated above and custom make a cowl snorkel or you could go even further and make your own version of a ARB or AIRFLOW snorkel out of 3" pvc it dosent look as fancy but if u take your time and do it right it can acutualy turn out very nice. this is the route i was going to take only because i can afford one of the snorkels mentioned above and its something that i can take pride in and say that i made that.

there are a lot of threads on Cherokeeforum.com on this topic and if u want i can dig some up if u like

No thanks. You'll see me ask questions here that have been asked before on other sites many times. I ask the questions here either because I want to know what the xjtalk members think or I want the information here on xjtalk.

[Mudderoy]

tony i don't really think ya need one ... as carves says a cover in front of grill if ya had to cross deep water....if its gonna flood ya going to get notice to move anyways...what price are you looking at for a airflow one..tis what i have and cant fault it ,,has taken a few knocks.....they do work as you can see by that pic of that kiwi drowning his,,,no engine problems.......my new jeep has one on as do most 4wds down here as we always have rivers to cross when wheeling....you mentioned about keeping water outta the trans ...do you know something i don't....?????

on a side note ,, don't quote me but airflow ones are a prick to mount with abs ,,,i don't have abs...worth looking into if you do decide to buy one...

Jason at JeepinOutfitters.com has the AirFlow for $350.

:link: (http://www.jeepinoutfitters.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=550)

I've discussed the snorkel before in a post. I was warned to don't think that this snorkel would allow my Jeep to transverse water up to my nose and not cause damage to other parts of my Jeep. That there were many things that needed to be done to the Jeep to make sure the various systems continued to operate. One of those things was to set up the auto transmission for deep water crossing.

Just off the top of my head I would say filler tube needs to be connected to the snorkel as well as many other vent lines. Along with the vent lines attached to the diffs.

[cantab27]

should have factory diff breathers ,,,plus i extended my trans one higher.....not into my snorkel but,...read somewhere this could cause a vacuum....again dont quote me on that...

[Carves]

Coupla custom ideas for ya Mud ...

Theres an air inlet position, in the inner fender panel, near the battery ... for the diesel versions.

Ive often wondered about swapping battery / airbox over and using a TJ, over the engine connection, to the TB.

Your cowl scoop should allow the TJ tubing to fit "comfortably".

... and theres a snorkle brand available for XJ diesels.


Other one Ive thought about ... is relocating the stuff in the rear engine bay corner and bringing a "snorkle" in there ... lower and behind the wheel arch.

Depends on how much space is in a LHD tho I guess ...

http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n629/carves-oz/Vehicle%20Bits/BlowerFanMount01b.jpg

[OrangeXJ]

My 2 cents I don't think we flood enough to justify ugleing up a clean XJ. I think other things would fail long before water got high enough to get in the air box on extended high water runs. After Ike I drove mine around in 3ft of water quit a bit with no problems other than getting water in the diff's and getting the carpet wet.

[4.3LXJ]

should have factory diff breathers ,,,plus i extended my trans one higher.....not into my snorkel but,...read somewhere this could cause a vacuum....again dont quote me on that...

Wayne, if you have adequate air flow on the snorkel the vacuum is negligible.

[4.3LXJ]

Tony

As far as the snorkel is concerned, they are good and not a bad thing to have. But bear in mind that you have a distributor that is about three feet off the ground as well as electronics under the hood and in the cab. One of the main reasons that snorkels are popular in Aussie land is because of dust kicked up by the tires on long trips in the bush. The snorkel gets the air intake above it. But at any rate, you need to do further water proofing to make them fully effective. Also remember that XJs will float for a little while and can be carried away by a current until they touch bottom again.. Well, except for Wayne's anyway

[XJ4IV]

Im in the middle of doing the cowl snorkel for my jeep... Im NOT doing this for water purposes Im doing this more for keeping the air intake OUT of the engine compartment to help reduce the intake air temperature... thus far Im only into the project about 25 dollars and that including a high flow filter similar to a K&N
I bought it one ebay for 14 bucks
http://www.ebay.com/itm/K-N-STYLE-CONE-AIR-FILTER-Reusable-washable-/200680891320?_trksid=p5197.m7&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D1%26po%3D LVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D4968463904416846889

[Mudderoy]

Thanks for the feedback guys, but I'm either going to do a snorkel or not.

I'm not doing a different kind of intake instead, it will be as it is or a snorkel.

I'm not concerned about the expense, I don't like it, but the cost is what it is.

I have forgotten about the cleaner air aspect of the snorkel, and I did not know that the snorkels original purpose was to rise above the dust for cleaner air, and yep, makes sense it would be cooler than inside the engine bay.

Sounds like those might be good all the time reasons to have a snorkel. :patriot:

[bluedragon436]

I would say yes on the snorkel... figure it works well for cleaner air in dusty conditions, cooler air than it will get under the hood (even with the stock box) and not to mention it will help you if you end up in some deep water while out on the trails.. The cost of a snorkel is way cheaper than a new engine if you either end up in lots of dust or lots of water.. so ultimately the cost isn't too bad really.. Not to mention it gives an awesome look to any wheeler!!

[cantab27]

make it a really big one tony....be easier to spot at the malls...kinda like a periscope.....

[DETOURS]

Let me just throw this at you before you spend three fiddy on a pcs of plastic and cut holes threw your fender............

All the bennies of a snorkle, hidden, lo-cost, reverseable, proven......the only time you should'nt consider this is 'expecting' to traverse water deeper than your hood.....if you do that, your Jeep will be junk anyway.......:rolleye0012:

Clean, underhood fit-
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/Detours/Underhood001.jpg

You direct tube to drivers side of cowl, this area is open, theres a shelf, you want placement above shelf for water to drain through factory drain, mines never taken in water.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/Detours/Underhood002.jpg

Block off factory air inlet, run tube to elbow entering the side of air box at lowest possible point.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/Detours/Underhood003.jpg

Snorkle, cold air, inexspensive, stealth...........Just give it a thought. ;)

[K-SKI]

HO
http://www.quadratec.com/Assets/Images/154038/154038-lg.jpg
RENIX
http://www.quadratec.com/Assets/Images/142968/142968-lg.jpg

depending on application u could go this route but they are like almost 300 bucks
i prefer a snorkel only cause i like the look

[MudRaider]

Showing the Russians crossing in 6 or 7 feet of water is kind of misleading. A diesel doesn't have as many engine electronics to worry about as gasoline models. Detours, that is an awesome idea for a snorkel set-up.

[LizardRunner]

Mark's idea is exactly what I have plans to do to da lizard. external snorkles are cool but then everyone knows you have one. I've been keeping track of the dust lines on my rig, cause that is why I started thinking about some sort of snorkle in the first place. If I was still racing in the deserts I'd have a rig more like Wayne's.

[Mudderoy]

Mark's idea is exactly what I have plans to do to da lizard. external snorkles are cool but then everyone knows you have one. I've been keeping track of the dust lines on my rig, cause that is why I started thinking about some sort of snorkle in the first place. If I was still racing in the deserts I'd have a rig more like Wayne's.

Mark always has good ideas, the thing that frustrates him though, at least where I'm concerned, I seldom do exactly what he tells me. ;)

[uberxj92]

snorkels? we don't need no stinking snorkels! that is until the water suddenly rises in the street or on the trail.
i built my own snorkel out of 3" pvc pipe. it's ugly but extremely functional. as long as i dont park in the deep end of the pool too long it works more than fantastic.
it also, brought up my mileage about 1/2 mpg, my air filters last WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY longer too.
just an opinion.
i live in florida & it floods here in the summers when we get afternoon hurricanes ( LOL ) . good to have the extra insurance then.

[xjrev10]

HO
http://www.quadratec.com/Assets/Images/154038/154038-lg.jpg
RENIX
http://www.quadratec.com/Assets/Images/142968/142968-lg.jpg

depending on application u could go this route but they are like almost 300 bucks
i prefer a snorkel only cause i like the look

I like these. Link?

[K-SKI]

I like these. Link?

http://www.quadratec.com/products/17006_7100_07.htm
i was way off on the price 150 and quadratech has them

[Mudderoy]

http://www.quadratec.com/products/17006_7100_07.htm
i was way off on the price 150 and quadratech has them

I'd like to have something like this but connect it to the snorkel! That way I could remove the air filter box and use that space for a second battery.

They sell one of these for the 97-06 Wranglers. I might do this to the wife's TJ, it would be great for her and in the very rare chance she would be in high water, it might just get her to safety.

[LizardRunner]

Now I'm thinking of getting one of those spectre units and doing a little rework then I can come out the side very close to the driver door and fab up a snorkel from that point out of aluminum tube then just fab up a nice aluminum scoop topper. And this is why I haven't done the snorkel yet, to many good ideas are out there.

[cherokeewrecker]

I ordered one of those Spectre Intakes about a month and a half ago from Quadratec and ended up cancelling the order because they were giving me a run around saying it was gonna be back in stock before Christmas and it never ended up happening, then they said it wouldn't be back in stock till middle of this month. I do still plan on ordering it in a month or two once I get the heart back in the jeep...

[DETOURS]

So did you spend an ungodly ammount of money on recycled plastic and cut a hole thru your fender yet?? :rolleyes:

[Mudderoy]

So did you spend an ungodly ammount of money on recycled plastic and cut a hole thru your fender yet?? :rolleyes:

Nope not yet. Still have too many other things sitting here on the floor that need to be done to the jeep.

Plus I'm doing upgrades to the Remington 700 and trying get all the parts together to install a PTZ camera for the security system. Oh and working on the Wrangler as well. :crazy:

[DETOURS]

A friend recently installed the cowl version a few days ago, the one noted in this post, but in a Rubicon.

He stated he noticed a real gain in power sucking the cold air over the stock box....

[denverd1]

hey guys. Don't forget about the CAI kits on ebay, not just the filter. They're like 50 bucks for the whole thing, new o2 sensor and everything. Might make for a good starting point on these custom snorkels.

I'm liking the Detours version personally. Mark, do you have this in a kit yet?

[ArmyGuy45]

http://www.quadratec.com/products/17006_7100_07.htm
i was way off on the price 150 and quadratech has them

With this set up do you have to worry about heavy rains or puddle jumping? If a lot of water hits the windshield could it fall and be sucked into your intake?

[4.3LXJ]

You don't run any more risk than the air intake that is in the front just behind the grill. But if you see a problem, most just turn the scoop on the top around backwards.

[ArmyGuy45]

I noticed that Spectre makes one for my year 2001 but it takes it from the passenger side. When looking at my XJ the passenger side cowl is closed from the top. So how does this system work to get air from the passenger side cowl?

http://www.quadratec.com/products/17006_7101_07.htm

http://www.quadratec.com/Assets/Images/154038/154038-lg.jpg

[gary63]

you have to open up the cowl .take it apart and replace the soled plactic peace with screen.I'm doing it on my 2000 but I'm trying to build it out of pvc.
then wrap it with some heat wrap becouse it is going right over the engin and on long runs it will heat up and you lose the cold air intake part.the metal one is nice a friend has one but that is what happen on hes. the coming into the engin heated up to the the eng. temp. and you lose some power.

[XJ4IV]

not sure how often this happens to folks that take care of their vehicles but I DO know that when I worked at an oil change place we were required to check every air filter on every car... and pretty much 90% of cherokees and wranglers had the SAME exact issue and that was the filter housing was inadequate and would either not seal up on the filter itself or the housing would get heat warped and not seal up properly
as you can see from THIS picture i snagged from google on the right side of the filter housing the filter is NOT sealing up
http://img.ehowcdn.com/article-new/ehow/images/a04/ai/e8/change-air-filter-1988-jeep-800x800.jpg
that ALLLL being said my opinion is to do away with the OEM air box and go a different route wether it be cold air snorkel or short ram.
this happens on TONS of different cars out there and its USUALLY ones that require a rectangular filter I guess the High RPM's cause a high velocity and the longer sides of the filter element give in to the velocity and get sucked out of the seating.

[budgetxjmcknight]

I have an 89 and during my last outing it got a lil deep by mistake. i am planning on building one out of 2" pvc and going straight into the side of the box. A plumber buddy of mine gave me all the pipe and fittings to do it just gotta get a 4" cap and some straps to get going....hopefully i can get pics and post em up as i go.

[Dredwolf]

I have an 89 and during my last outing it got a lil deep by mistake. i am planning on building one out of 2" pvc and going straight into the side of the box. A plumber buddy of mine gave me all the pipe and fittings to do it just gotta get a 4" cap and some straps to get going....hopefully i can get pics and post em up as i go.

You may want to check out the Chinese ARB knock-off in the vendor section on that "other forum", last I saw, it was going for $120 shipped.

I have to remove all the ABS stuff in my '99 before the next step.

[cantab27]

I have an 89 and during my last outing it got a lil deep by mistake. i am planning on building one out of 2" pvc and going straight into the side of the box. A plumber buddy of mine gave me all the pipe and fittings to do it just gotta get a 4" cap and some straps to get going....hopefully i can get pics and post em up as i go.

2inch may just be on the small side of things there mate,,,,,

[4.3LXJ]

2", I didn't catch that. You will need 3" to get enough air. With the smaller size it will restrict air at higher RPMs

[budgetxjmcknight]

I was wanting to go with 3" but was given all 2" stuff for free, guess i could use it to mock one up and then go get the 3" stuff i need.

[budgetxjmcknight]

Been sittin here thinking about 2" vs 3", the concept of the 3 sounds all good but if you can expel the exhaust out of 2 1/4" pipe what benifit will you gain from 3" intake pipe? just wondering because it seems to me 2" would be relevant.

[gary63]

1st 3" will give you more air on deaman so you don't starv the motor when you push on the throtel. 2nd with a bigger tube there will be more air and wont heat up as fast.

[01xjcny]

have read before whether or not it is true that you dont want to use pvc as an intake something with the coating gets into the intake and into the engine and can cause many problems

[budgetxjmcknight]

I do understand the thought that more air on a larger pipe would be better but at the same time isn't that what a snorkle is about, cleaner cooler air. So with that said 2" may sound small, but with the colder air from the tube vs the hotter air from behind the headlight, and the extra insurance of o shit to deep lol, 2" doesn't seem like a bad start. The coating on pvc??? Don't know but for free parts i'm going to gamble on the 2". But at the same time what size is the flex tube in a kit thats going to cost me at the least $120, it's not 3".

[4.3LXJ]

Been sittin here thinking about 2" vs 3", the concept of the 3 sounds all good but if you can expel the exhaust out of 2 1/4" pipe what benifit will you gain from 3" intake pipe? just wondering because it seems to me 2" would be relevant.

The difference is pressure. An exhaust will generate a hundred pounds of pressure easily. Ever heard of stuffing a potato in a pipe. Quite impressive. With an intake, you are dealing with vacuum which for all practical purposes will never exceed over 10 psi on most engines. At that point it dies completely. So the idea is that an exhaust can operate nicely with a pound or two resistance. But that same resistance on an intake severely limits an engine. 3" is the excepted size in Detroit, with 4" on a 5.7L

[01xjcny]

again i am just going on things i have read and i know everything you read is not true but what i have seen is that it puts off fumes off some sort

[prcjeep]

The size of the tube connecting to the throttle body should be a pretty good indicator of what diameter pipe you will need to run for an adaquate air supply

Just my 2 cents

[budgetxjmcknight]

the tube running from my air box to the throttle body is only 2 1/4 to 2 1/2 have to measure to make sure but really all an engine is is a glorified air pump. I'll try the 2" to start and hey if it bogs me out at any point im only out of a lil time and will just have to trim out a lil more to up the size, but seriously what is the size of the flex pipe on a kit and wouldn't the ridges in the pipe be more restricting than a smooth pvc??

[4x4Dalton]

No I used the flex pipe on one I made for my 95. Also used a 3 inch electrical junction box to tie into fender then from there I used a pc of 2 1/2 PVC elbow into a sleeve then 3 inch to the top of jeep. And used a dryer vent for the top. It worked great. Saw a small gain in HP and kept motor runnin cooler, but word of advise if you ever take it lose after a while of runnin it you will have to change thermostat. I unhooked mine and the thermo stuck to where I ran for 5 mins and pegged the needle.


Sent from my bulletproof iPhone using the Flapmyjaws app :)

[budgetxjmcknight]

The more i look at it the better the dryer vent gets, man that looks awsome.