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View Full Version : Help! - Need assitance in debugging a TC lockup issue.



Mudderoy
11-14-2011, 08:52 AM
Starting back in June/July I started getting a random P0700 P0740. I could see by my RPM and lack of change when I hit the brake petal that my torque converter wasn't locking up. With my on board OBDII scanner capability I could clear the CEL and the torque converter would operate normally (at least as what I had learned to expect). At 50 mph my rpm is about 2000 rpm, but with TC lockup it would drop to 1900/1800 (the next line below 2000). Stepping on the brake would make the rpms jump to 2000 rpm.

The CEL would stay off for weeks at a time and would happen randomly. Sometime on the way to work, sometimes on the way home.

About 2 week ago I had an additional transmission related CEL code that involved the "A" solenoid. I'm trying to remember the code, P0735 I think. Since I had already purchased a complete replacement set of solenoids I went ahead and changed them all.

After changing them, along with the fluid and filter I went from an occasional P0700 and P0740 to a CEL and those codes anytime I hit 50 mph for longer than a few seconds.

Clearing the CEL would NOT return the TC to normal operation, it just flat didn't work.

Since this problem I have ordered a 2nd TCC solenoid, and replaced the new one. Same issue. Last night I replaced the shifting solenoids with the original ones after first testing them by applying 12 volts to them. Same issue.

In October I replaced the TPS, IAC and MAP(?) with Chrysler OEM sensors. I have not put the old TPS back on yet, but I am going to just to eliminate this as a possibility.

I recently found out that I have two speed sensors. An input speed sensor and a speed sensor on the transfer case. I have received one CEL that mentioned a back speed sensor. I ignored it because I could see the speed on my speedometer therefore knew it was working.

As part of my testing last night I hooked up the OBD II scanner and read GPS speed and OBDII speed side by side. They are about 3 mph off. The speedometer matches (closely) the GPS speed.

The transmission seems fine with the exception of the lack of TC lockup. I understand that this may just mean the problem hasn't progressed to the point where the transmission will begin to show more obvious signs of failure, however I have read more than one story of how people did a complete installation of TC and transmission only to have the same problem.

I am about ready to drop it off at a transmission shop, but this almost feels like an electrical issue, like a fuse or relay.

http://youtu.be/rskFJ0ujbY8

BlueXJ
11-14-2011, 09:43 AM
My tracing of similar problems have led back to a bad TPS, but many are cheaply made and if you replace it get a factory replacement or a well known brand. I only use those on mine.

Mudderoy
11-14-2011, 10:50 AM
My tracing of similar problems have led back to a bad TPS, but many are cheaply made and if you replace it get a factory replacement or a well known brand. I only use those on mine.

Well I was going to go back with the one I had on there. At this point I just want to see a change in the problem to get a clue where the issue is. As I mentioned the one on there now is from Chrysler.

Carves
11-15-2011, 08:57 AM
It maybe nothing to do with your problem ... but .....

It might be worth getting your brake pedal switch out and into pieces ... for a look ??

Theres six little brass tabs that get shoved about when you depress the pedal ...

They can break off and cause open circuits ... or closed circuits ... as they rattle around.

If you have spare bits ... the tabs can be swapped out ... but Id reckon a new switch over there ... is probably cheap as chips anyway.

One wire is a TCM input and I think one is a speed sensor input ?? .... Check your FSM for info.

Mudderoy
11-15-2011, 09:03 AM
It maybe nothing to do with your problem ... but .....

It might be worth getting your brake pedal switch out and into pieces ... for a look ??

Theres six little brass tabs that get shoved about when you depress the pedal ...

They can break off and cause open circuits ... or closed circuits ... as they rattle around.

If you have spare bits ... the tabs can be swapped out ... but Id reckon a new switch over there ... is probably cheap as chips anyway.

One wire is a TCM input and I think one is a speed sensor input ?? .... Check your FSM for info.

Is a very good idea, and I've swapped it out with one from a 2000. I need to put it back to the original though, just to see if I can get the problem to change.

dagr8tim
11-15-2011, 09:49 AM
How do you clear the codes? I've used the key trick to pull my codes. But I didn't know you could clear them any other way than by disconnecting the battery.

Mudderoy
11-15-2011, 09:51 AM
How do you clear the codes? I've used the key trick to pull my codes. But I didn't know you could clear them any other way than by disconnecting the battery.

OBDII scanner.

I have a elm327 blue tooth OBDII scanner and I use Torque on my Android phone to connect to and control the OBDII scanner.

dagr8tim
11-15-2011, 09:55 AM
OBDII scanner.

I have a elm327 blue tooth OBDII scanner and I use Torque on my Android phone to connect to and control the OBDII scanner.

<thread jack>Nice, I've got 2 spare droids, and have considered getting a blue tooth dongle for the Jeep and running one of them as a stand alone monitoring tool.

I've also got a window mount that I modified to make into a dash cam.</thread jack>

Mudderoy
11-15-2011, 10:00 AM
<thread jack>Nice, I've got 2 spare droids, and have considered getting a blue tooth dongle for the Jeep and running one of them as a stand alone monitoring tool.

I've also got a window mount that I modified to make into a dash cam.</thread jack>

I listen to podcasts, talk on the phone, and monitor the OBDII all at the same time, but dedicated devices are nice.

BlueXJ
11-15-2011, 10:07 AM
Keep us informed with the progress when you switch out components. I am still betting on the TPS which seems totally unrelated.
It plays in as sending a signal to the ECU to lock the TC in the transmission.

Mudderoy
11-16-2011, 09:46 AM
Transmission shop was nice enough to put their scanner on it and see what they could find out. They say the signal is being sent to the "stuff" for the torque converter to lock up.

They say they would have to open it up to see, which of course means a rebuild. $1850 was the estimated amount to do all the work.

dagr8tim
11-16-2011, 09:50 AM
Transmission shop was nice enough to put their scanner on it and see what they could find out. They say the signal is being sent to the "stuff" for the torque converter to lock up.

They say they would have to open it up to see, which of course means a rebuild. $1850 was the estimated amount to do all the work.

I'd almost consider a used tranny.

Mudderoy
11-16-2011, 09:52 AM
I'd almost consider a used tranny.

msmoorenburg is checking into a few options, but I can tell you it will either be a rebuild or a new AW4. ;)

Oh or we'll figure out what the problem is with this one and just fix that issue.

dagr8tim
11-16-2011, 09:56 AM
msmoorenburg is checking into a few options, but I can tell you it will either be a rebuild or a new AW4. ;)

Oh or we'll figure out what the problem is with this one and just fix that issue.

ooooo.... do a rebuild and then do the shifter mod.

Mudderoy
03-22-2012, 12:51 PM
The solution was a $1500 transmission rebuild. I had them add a few options to make it shift better and lock up harder.

dagr8tim
03-22-2012, 12:57 PM
The solution was a $1500 transmission rebuild. I had them add a few options to make it shift better and lock up harder.

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