Lets talk about radiators...

[Mudderoy]

My prior Jeep experience with radiators was putting in a radiator with an additional row for my 327 in my 1972 Nova. Fixed the over heating problem quickly. So when I was having issues with the 1998 Jeep 4.0L over heating then running hot on the freeway I thought, "I need to add an extra row!"

I got a CSF 3 row all metal radiator and BOOM, it didn't fix a thing!

So my thinking was it must be something else. Over the last few years I have replaced, or upgraded the entire cooling system, except the heater core.

Recently I have been looking into the running hot on the freeway problem online and several people having the problem have resolved it by replacing the radiator. If it isn't an air flow issue, it's coolant flow issue. I've even read one post that a CFS 3 core all metal was the CAUSE of a Jeep XJ running hot on the freeway and the problem was resolved by going back to a stock radiator.

The thing I want to do in this discussion is to learn and share more information about radiators.

For example I have learned that the factor radiator for the 1998 Jeep Cherokee is an aluminum core radiator with plastic tanks.

I have found that aluminum core dissipates heat better at higher coolant temps than a brass/copper core. I believe the brass/copper dissipates heat better at lower temps. This fits my highway heat creep model.

One thing I'm trying to understand that the Chrysler part number 52080104AC is for a single row aluminum core radiator with plastic tanks. It is called heavy duty, yet it is a single core.

I have not been able to tell what the size of the row is.

For example I was checking out the all aluminum radiator at alumrad.com. They have a very interesting image...

http://www.alumrad.com/alucop.jpg

So technically this is a single core radiator but the tube size is larger than the two core next to it! This means more coolant is going to flow through the radiator. I understand that too fast a flow could be bad, but certainly too little flow is bad.

What I am trying to figure out is are ALL aluminum single row radiators like this? If so a single core radiator might be a high speed heat creep solution.

I'm trying to learn here, so please share what you know, or what you've found via searching, word of mouth, etc...

:patriot:

[Mudderoy]

The have this e-mail listed on the alumrad.com site.


Bryan,

I just want to let you know the Cherokee radiator I got from you works GREAT!

I would have never dreamed it would work as well as it does.

We were ready to sell or shoot it, as we have to drive it to work in Laughlin, Nevada to Golden Valley, Arizona with 100 degree plus heat and 14 miles of 6 percent grade hill. (Same one Ford Motor Company uses test on) We can run the hill with the A.C. on full blast and it never gets past 210 degrees.

Before, we would have the heater on full blast, windows down, creeping along at 250 degrees + praying to make the top.

Thanks!

Paul Jones
Golden Valley, Arizona

Sadly, the aluminum radiator the have listed on the website for the XJ is no longer available. This is one reason I am trying to find out more about radiators since this is no longer a source.

[4.3LXJ]

Tony

I have a Griffin two row. It has tubes like the ones on the left, except thinner. It is about 4" thick. It is supposed to be good for a 600 hp engine, about standard for Griffin unless you want a three core, which they will build for you if you have the bucks. The issue is not number of cores specifically, but exposed surface area in relation to volume. As you know cross sectional area is a function of the square, but circumference is a linear function. So the single row, if very thin can have a higher area to circumference ratio, but if it was thick, then it would be the opposite. To see if it is better or not, you need specifics of core size etc. Also there is an issue of coolant velocity in the tubes.

[Mudderoy]

Here is the radiator that is in my wife's 1999 XJ.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-2RUGqahPKh8/TiIfhX2xlyI/AAAAAAAABCQ/BIkFkbSr044/2011-07-16%25252018.34.36.jpg

Here is the all metal two core I bought for my 1998 when it was about 3 years old and the plastic tank had a leak in the original OEM radiator.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-DIXInkHu4M4/TiIh6MT7ajI/AAAAAAAABCY/DVLkXE5ZFEI/s800/2011-07-16%25252018.42.08.jpg

When I received the 3 core CFS radiator I had this one repaired and flow checked. Here is the repair.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Epa1PXKJOJQ/TiIh-qaDzwI/AAAAAAAABCc/Wtcr43V7m4g/s800/2011-07-16%25252018.41.48.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-we1tgxjsr_k/TiIiFqicXGI/AAAAAAAABCg/zS3byv2osbM/s800/2011-07-16%25252018.40.54.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-2j7IYwYq-GA/TiIieNT1HuI/AAAAAAAABCk/L-QLgE5ttHE/s800/2011-07-16%25252018.40.22.jpg

I'm thinking about putting the two core back in to see if it makes a difference. Obviously it had a problem before that has been fixed.

[Mudderoy]

52079682AE XJ 1997-2001 Auto w/o Cool Max 4.0L
52028133 XJ 1991-2001 Auto w/Max Cool 4.0L

[Mudderoy]

Repost from another thread...



Mark what radiator did the factory 1998 Cherokee come with? 1 core, 2, and what was the metal, cooper, brass, or aluminum?

To answer your question Tony yours came stock from the factory with an alum. 2 row core and plastic tanks. Actually after talking to my rad. guy, All Radiators from 1987 were Alum core except for Honda which switched in 1991. As for the tanks they were either plastic or metal, the draw back to the all alum tanks are they are welded on so you can't access the core seperatly once its gone its gone. So spending the cash on all alum rad isn't really cost effective as the core is what does the cooling. Ok so I threw in some extra info. ther hope it didn't bore ya :)

[ike]

FWIW 106* today @ bridge port.
Stayed on the high side of 210*++ running down the hwy @ 70 with a/c.(2 hr trip each way for me)
Ran with a couple of other xj’s that had recently replace their radiators with a stock type replacement. (they didn’t know if the were 1 or 2 core)
They reported no temp’s over 210* except when sitting on the trails with the a/c on. Of course mine stayed right @ 210* + all day on the trails with a/c.
So you may be on to something here.
I’m almost to the point of buying a stock type 2 core just to try.
I’m really close at this point, since you brought up a good point about the plastic tanks vs aluminum.
For a 100 buck-a-roos it might be worth a shot.

[Mudderoy]

FWIW 106* today @ bridge port.
Stayed on the high side of 210*++ running down the hwy @ 70 with a/c.(2 hr trip each way for me)
Ran with a couple of other xj’s that had recently replace their radiators with a stock type replacement. (they didn’t know if the were 1 or 2 core)
They reported no temp’s over 210* except when sitting on the trails with the a/c on. Of course mine stayed right @ 210* + all day on the trails with a/c.
So you may be on to something here.
I’m almost to the point of buying a stock type 2 core just to try.
I’m really close at this point, since you brought up a good point about the plastic tanks vs aluminum.
For a 100 buck-a-roos it might be worth a shot.

Well msmoorenburg and I have been working this offline. He went to a junk yard today and got what he described a heavy duty alumium/plastic radiator out of a XJ. He's only driving it 10 miles with the wide 1 row radiator but his coolant temp with the A/C on is below 210 with the A/C running. He was doing 220 before. It may be too soon to say the problem is resolved, but a little time and a few more test drives should tell us.

From the information I am gathering it would seem...

I had a 2 row aluminum/plastic radiator from the factory. 2 row because my XJ came with a towing package and a factory transmission cooler.

When I had a problem with the factory water pump and the engine over heated, it was fixed and everything ran fine for a couple of months then the plastic tank gave out. Typical, I was told, when you over heat the system.

I was shocked to find out the radiator had plastic tanks so when the radiator shop offered to sell me another I didn't ask about what metal the core was, and frankly I would have thought cooper would be a better conductor of heat that aluminum anyway. So I told them I wanted an all metal radiator, which they were happy to sell and install for me.

From what I am reading just going from the stock aluminum/plastic to the all metal copper/brass that reduced my cooling efficiency by 20%! After lifting and putting the larger tires and wheels on I started having a problem with it running hot. So I purchased and installed the 3 row CSF radiator copper/brass. I had the all metal 2 row checked and they repaired it. So I had a problem with the cooling system that I wasn't aware of.

So basically I am running a radiator now that SHOULD be more efficient that the 2 row all metal I had in there, but is it as efficient as a 2 core aluminum/plastic? I'm starting to think the answer is no.

I do know this, that with all the mods I have made I am very close to NOT having a running hot issue. I suspect that if the aluminum truly provides a 20% increase in efficiency that I will solve my running hot on the freeway issue.

The cooper/brass that I have now is supposed to be better and cooling during low speed, or less heat coming from the engine. The set up I have right now cools very well at low speed (below 60 mph) and not as good above 60 mph.

I need to find a balance between the two.

I suspect that if I can get it to run 210 on the highway that I can get enough CFM from electric fans on there to keep her cool at low speed too.

[Paddletrucker]

This is really interesting stuff! I'm curious as to all your mods to the cooling system, as I run a lot at low speeds in the pastures around here. Also, I plan on pulling a trailer a lot with my XJ, so I expect this issue will materialize for me to. Off to do some searching for radiator mods!!

[jeepxj95]

i do great ex red lights in hot weater (over 85 or so) unless im the first on. stock radiator. with VERY bad clutch fan. i think if i fix that (zj fan clutch) it would be fine do great if i got a shoud. was running just over 210 until i flushed it and now around 195-200 ish.

[jeepxj95]

if 3 row isnt doing the trick. how about or if they make it a 1 row or 2 row all aluminium radiator. that sounds like a great idea. i hate plastic end caps.

[Mudderoy]

if 3 row isnt doing the trick. how about or if they make it a 1 row or 2 row all aluminium radiator. that sounds like a great idea. i hate plastic end caps.

I am starting to think that my hatred for plastic end caps is why I'm in this situation and unable to make any long trips in the XJ for several years. All aluminum is about $500. Someone recently pointed out the "Champion" all aluminum radiator for $200 but then there are people that have had problems with making it fit.

Specifically the transmission cooler connections are different and the filler neck tube is short so that it make is difficult to take on off the radiator cap.

The Chrysler aluminium/plastic routinely go 80k/100k miles and are less than $200.

[ike]

“I am starting to think that my hatred for plastic end caps is why I'm in this situation and unable to make any long trips in the XJ for several years.

Me too, but as those in the radiator business said, the plastic tanks only pose a problem when they have been overheated. That has been my experience too.

On a side note I took the spacers out of the rear of the hood and put the lebaron hood vents in…as everyone say the heat waves coming out at low speed in unbelievable.
From what I can tell, they don’t work as well as the spacers in the rear of the hood for hwy driving or low speed trail crawling on my xj.

“Well msmoorenburg and I have been working this offline. He went to a junk yard today and got what he described a heavy duty alumium/plastic radiator out of a XJ. He's only driving it 10 miles with the wide 1 row radiator but his coolant temp with the A/C on is below 210 with the A/C running. He was doing 220 before. It may be too soon to say the problem is resolved, but a little time and a few more test drives should tell us.”That’s good to know, I think I’m going to talk to my radiator guy tomorrow an see what he’s got/or get for a replacement.

[jeepxj95]

I am starting to think that my hatred for plastic end caps is why I'm in this situation and unable to make any long trips in the XJ for several years. All aluminum is about $500. Someone recently pointed out the "Champion" all aluminum radiator for $200 but then there are people that have had problems with making it fit.

Specifically the transmission cooler connections are different and the filler neck tube is short so that it make is difficult to take on off the radiator cap.

The Chrysler aluminium/plastic routinely go 80k/100k miles and are less than $200.

i dont have my trans hooked up thru the radiator. and from what ive read is that there cap dont fit but a oem style will fit.

[ike]

More fuel on the fire.

Ck out this page.

http://www.jeep4x4center.com/jeep-cooling-system-parts/cherokee-xj.htm

There is a part # change according to them.
91-97 #52028133
98-01 #52079693AD
98-00 #52080164AB
That’s 3 different ones to choose from…or not. Not enough info for a Sunday.

[msmoorenburg]

Mudderoy; Matt found this wide core aluminum radiator (left) at the junk yard yesterday and swapped it in.
The radiator on the right is the one he was running hot with, it's a 3 row copper/brass.

http://xjtalk.com/images/special/msmoorenburg-radiator1.jpg


Well after 38 miles with the road temp at 102, and the a/c on see my results below. Before i couldn't make it 10 miles with the a/c on and the temp at 240ish 220 with the air off

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y299/msmoorenburg/IMG_20110717_164830.jpg

[bigjim350]

Told ya'll so :D

[Paddletrucker]

So what you guys are saying is that if I need a new radiator, make sue to get an aluminum one? I'm thinking the aluminum three core is what seems to be working the best here, right?

Also, in listening to the older podcasts Mudderoy, it would seem you had associated your heating problems to lifting the Jeep. Do you still feel that way, or was the heat creep problem coincidental? I don't remember the timeline for the things you did.

I'm going to start trying to see if my electric fan works at all, and see about putting it on an override switch tomorrow. I know it's not coming on by itself.

If that will take care of the thing getting over 210 at an idle, I don't think it'll ever go over 210, but if my 207K mile radiator gives away, I doubt I'll be buying a copper or brass one, from the sounds of this thread.

[bigjim350]

I would go with a aluminum Hd wide single core with plastic tanks if it were me

[honesT]

Everyone should read what this site has to offer:
http://jeep-xj.info/HowtoWaterpump.htm

it could be that you just need a restrictor ( @ thermostat )to slow down the water flow to keep the right amount of pressure in the system. I`m no pro just a newbie, but this guys on to something.
Quote: ( higher pressure stops water turning into vapour on the cylinder walls etc )

[Mudderoy]

I'll know more answers if/when I resolve my long standing problem.

My "feeling" right now is that a poorly performing 2 row all metal (non aluminum) was causing a running hot and occasional over heating issue. On or off the highway.

I replaced it with a 3 row all metal (non aluminum) and I didn't have any problems with running hot or over heating. I did have a running hot on the highway problem.


I believe that the loss in efficiency with the non aluminum along with other modifications that I have made my have caused the running hot on the highway situation.

The two row was taken to a radiator shop after I installed the 3 row CSF. They found a problem and repaired it.

I won't know for sure until I installed a large single core aluminum or a two row. I am leaning to the two row aluminum/plastic because that is what Chrysler put in my Jeep to start with.

[Mudderoy]

So now begins my search for the "right" aluminum radiator. I don't have money to spend on this as it is, so I need to get it right the first time. Or considering I have already spent money on a 3 core, a 2 core, water pump, thermostat, thermostat housing and fan clutch, I need to get it right the 10th time! :bang:

msmoorenburg's radiator doesn't have a name on it, and I really can't afford a $300 Chrysler direct replacement. So does anyone have recommendations on a good brand aluminum/plastic radiator? Single row core if it is very wide, or a double row core.

[ike]

Look at the 3 I put in my last post on page 1.

I’m going to town with the part #’s now to see if I can find out more about them from the radiator shop.

I guess you could contact Morris 4x4 in @ the link I put in the last post and talk to them while I’m in town if you want. Cover more ground that way.

[Mudderoy]

Choices are:

Nissens
Silla
Replacement
AutoTrust
Spectra Premium
Performance Radiator
CSF (also have aluminum core available)

[ike]

This is what I found out today.

Apparently we don’t have a real radiator repair shop in town. He tried to be helpful but had no real information of any use and had to make a phone call to someone else that was no help either.

So after that it was on to 2 different jeep parts men.
One at Dallas Dodge says the part #’s from Morris 4x4 cross over to this #5191929AA = max cooling is available for $184.00.

Parts man @ Greenville jeep says the 3 part #’s from Morris 4x4 cross over to 3 other part #’s 5012883AA, 50279682AA, 5207968AA and is the only the last one is available any more, but is out of stock at this time and don’t know when anymore will be made available.
Now to the 5191929AA, he looked it up and says it goes back to the 5012883AA and the 5027968AA, both of which are no longer available and the 5191929AA that is available and is listed for a 2001 Eastern Asia. He had no idea what that meant. I’m wondering if it means right hand drive. Has anyone looked at a RHD Cherokee’s radiator to see if it is in fact different?
When he ran the #’s back the show they fit from ‘91-01.
Lots a numbers no real help.

[Mudderoy]

This is what I found out today.

Apparently we don’t have a real radiator repair shop in town. He tried to be helpful but had no real information of any use and had to make a phone call to someone else that was no help either.

So after that it was on to 2 different jeep parts men.
One at Dallas Dodge says the part #’s from Morris 4x4 cross over to this #5191929AA = max cooling is available for $184.00.

Parts man @ Greenville jeep says the 3 part #’s from Morris 4x4 cross over to 3 other part #’s 5012883AA, 50279682AA, 5207968AA and is the only the last one is available any more, but is out of stock at this time and don’t know when anymore will be made available.
Now to the 5191929AA, he looked it up and says it goes back to the 5012883AA and the 5027968AA, both of which are no longer available and the 5191929AA that is available and is listed for a 2001 Eastern Asia. He had no idea what that meant. I’m wondering if it means right hand drive. Has anyone looked at a RHD Cherokee’s radiator to see if it is in fact different?
When he ran the #’s back the show they fit from ‘91-01.
Lots a numbers no real help.

Hey thanks for the effort! Yeah sadly there are fewer and fewer people that do hands on and more and more just salesmen, or so it seems to me.

Looking at the various radiators online I do see prices differences for the left and and right hand drive XJs. Some are referred to as "Postal" which of course would be right hand drive. I do believe there is a difference in the two radiators because of seeing it on multiple sites.

[ike]

Yes I see those listing also, but as 1 parts man said “well what could be different?”
Then I thought about it on the way home and I said hey I looked at the specs for both and I don’t remember seeing anything different so I’ll have to ck that again.
In looking @ CSF site I see the difference is the trans cooler is on the right side for the RHD’s.(something they didn’t really have to change, I can’t think of a good reason)

It’s a shame that the only radiator shop in town just orders 1 for your vehicle and replaces it. I still remember working with an old man that repaired/made them anyway you wanted. He was good.

At the 2 parts stores that I went to today they both had the 1-core replacement in stock and could get the “Max Cool Heat Buster” 3-core all metal CSF unit. I said thanks but I already have that one.

I have yet to find a listing for anything other than a 1-core aluminum/plastic except for the one’s I listed that had chry pt #’s from Morris. And they all cross over to a 1-row core @ radiator sites!
I guess I’ll give them a call tomorrow and see what’s up with the 2-cores they’ve got listed.

I can’t find any listings for a 2-core aluminum/plastic @ any of the places you listed.

Forgot to say the $184.00 was list price @ dodge, cost is $134.00. It don’t matter cause I still think it’s for a RHD but will try to find out for sure.

It’s not RHD, just crossed it @ the Spectra site and it comes up with CU1193 1-row aluminum/plastic.

Maybe they have all gone to 1-row that’s wider and that’s why replacements aren’t having any problem now a days.

I give up 4 2-day! :cry:

[DeftwillP]

But this is a good thing, right?

As long as everything else is in tune cooling wise, this widebody aluminum single core sounds like the best bet, even with plastic tanks.

[jeepxj95]

sounds like it. now if they made one with aluminium end tanks that was the wide single core. that would be allsome

[Mudderoy]

But this is a good thing, right?

As long as everything else is in tune cooling wise, this widebody aluminum single core sounds like the best bet, even with plastic tanks.

I think this is right. It goes against what I thought I knew but it is working for a couple of members here.

[Mudderoy]

After the discussion here I decided to give the single core from Performance Radiators a try. 1 7/16 wide core, aluminum/plastic.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-_Lh3179h7SM/TiXeqFoMPQI/AAAAAAAABD0/ikoYKTt283s/s800/2011-07-19%25252014.33.15.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-QQOCnBeuQOQ/TiXeHezComI/AAAAAAAABDs/m2wurkJGnh8/s800/2011-07-19%25252014.35.06.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-QuF_BPX-Mg4/TiXeDNEg4PI/AAAAAAAABDk/6x6M-qRLntc/s800/2011-07-19%25252014.35.18.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-AoKp112EAtw/TiXd7XI7yDI/AAAAAAAABDg/G_XGZGoqebY/s576/2011-07-19%25252014.35.36.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Ht-7HKlyLCU/TiXd1VIDCSI/AAAAAAAABDc/czRbR1MdUAA/s800/2011-07-19%25252014.36.09.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Z9udGTwVu-g/TiXduE0A9JI/AAAAAAAABDY/hNmer5ZCt80/s800/2011-07-19%25252014.36.19.jpg

[DeftwillP]

Saw it in half and let us see the core cross section. Price?

[Mudderoy]

http://xjtalk.com/images/special/amazon-performance-radiator-2188.jpg

[KH96XJ]

Looking forward to see what your results are.

sent by smoke signal

[Mudderoy]

Looking forward to see what your results are.

sent by smoke signal

Yep, me too. All the past failures don't give me much hope, but something has to resolve the problem.

[cyclone70]

Sorry to join this discusiion so late.
I have a copper/brass Heatbuster 3 row radiator in mine.
Last summer during hot weather towing my bassboat(2300 lbs.) the temp
would run 220-230 with the a/c on in traffic.On the highway it was fine.
This year I installed a 180 tstat,GC fan clutch,adjustable elec. fan switch,and
a B&M Supercooler for the transmission.Elec. fan switch set @ 210.
Now rarely does the temp break the 215 mark in traffic with a/c running and runs very cool 180-ish on the highway.

[Mudderoy]

Sorry to join this discusiion so late.
I have a copper/brass Heatbuster 3 row radiator in mine.
Last summer during hot weather towing my bassboat(2300 lbs.) the temp
would run 220-230 with the a/c on in traffic.On the highway it was fine.
This year I installed a 180 tstat,GC fan clutch,adjustable elec. fan switch,and
a B&M Supercooler for the transmission.Elec. fan switch set @ 210.
Now rarely does the temp break the 215 mark in traffic with a/c running and runs very cool 180-ish on the highway.

To each his own but I would put the 195 degree thermostat back in it. A thermostat will not keep the coolant temp lower, it only lets the cooling system start cooling sooner, you know when the temp reaches 180. I've read that because the engine is designed to run at 195-ish you are going against the programming of the computer and it may cause you troubles.

The thermostat is pretty easy to change (and cheap) so you might try it and verify what I'm telling you. I suspect the GC HD fan and electric fan switch set for 210 is what may the biggest difference.

Thanks for sharing your information, and we don't have those old post rules here. Good information is good anytime! :D

[cyclone70]

The 180 tstat has not affected the engine or mileage in any way over the last couple months,I may wish I had the 195 in when winter sets in.I think the fan switch,GC clutch,and trans cooler combination has helped greatly.
Having the electric fan come on sooner to get ahead of the heat helps the cooling system a great deal I'm sure.For $26.00,it was worth it.

[4.3LXJ]

I am all for fans coming on sooner too. In my opinion, if the tstat is open in warm weather or towing, all the fans need to be running.

[Mudderoy]

The 180 tstat has not affected the engine or mileage in any way over the last couple months,I may wish I had the 195 in when winter sets in.I think the fan switch,GC clutch,and trans cooler combination has helped greatly.
Having the electric fan come on sooner to get ahead of the heat helps the cooling system a great deal I'm sure.For $26.00,it was worth it.

Well I guess what I've learned, or think I've learned is getting "ahead" of the cooling really doesn't matter. You have a heat generator, the engine. It generates a fixed amount of heat (BTU). Naturally that heat level changes with how much work it is having to do. Then you have a engine cooling system. That system has to have the capacity to keep the coolant at an acceptable temp. If it doesn't then it doesn't matter if it starts cooling sooner or later. It can only do what it is designed, or capable to do.

So having a thermostat that opens sooner just means it will take a little longer to reach the operating temp. That may be 230. Same thing with the electric fan coming on at 210. 210 or the computer controlled 215 if the normal operating temp is 230 with the electric fan on then that is what it will be eventually.

I have a switch on my electric fan. I'll just turn it on before I get on the freeway and it stays at or below 210 until I get on the freeway. Once on the freeway it heats up to over 210 with in 10 miles, then stays there until I slow down, 50 mph or lower.

I simply don't have enough cooling system to counter act the heat being generated by my engine.

Yeah I noticed the same "winter" time problem with my heater. :D I tried the 180 as well. Just took longer to reach the operating temperature. :(

[msmoorenburg]

Ok time it get to get the details out so post up

91 jeep 195k miles 4.5in lift 31x10.50 mt's with front skid (motor 211k unknown history) all have radiator and external factory tranny cooler
1. stock 195 tstat (1000 miles)
2. stock water pump (unknown miles)
3. GC fan clutch (under 500 miles)
4. No electric fan mod (i like the auto way since i don't want to remember to flip anything)
5. 13lbs radiator cap (16 tested on copper= no change)
6. Houston Tx (road temps above 102) when testing alum radiator copper been a issue since i built the jeep
7. Copper 3 core radiator without a/c at 65mph 220~230 (100+ ambient temp) numerous miles driven
8. Copper 3 core radiator with a/c at 65mph 240~unknown I shut it down (100+ ambient temp) 10 miles
9. 1 core alum radiator without a/c idleing 215 tops fans come on and off at 205 ish (100+ ambient temp)
10. 1 core alum radiator without a/c under 210 all day long at 65mph (100+ ambient temp)
11. 1 core alum radiator with a/c 210 or below 40+ miles (100+ambient) (speed varied from 70 to 35 but 80% at 55+)

and the real kicker is the radiator block test was + for exhaust gases so yes i do have a blown head gasket

[ike]

I've read that because the engine is designed to run at 195-ish you are going against the programming of the computer and it may cause you troubles.


You really don’t have to worry about that. As long as you are in the range it’s not going to effect anything.

In properly designed and working cooling system, the radiator and cooling fans should be able to cool the engine coolant to less than the thermostat opening temp. It is the job of the thermostat to regulate coolant flow to maintain the desired engine temperature, not the radiator.

If you’re running the Daytona 500 or the 24 hrs of LeMans you need not worry about anything other than making it through the race with max hp and max fuel mileage so you can run the engine @ a much higher temp to achieve the need results because it’s a 1 race engine.

However since we are running modified xj’s, that had a marginal cooling system from the beginning, don’t run the Daytona 500 or the 24 hrs of LeMans they don’t need to run those high of temps.

The type of driving that we do in our xj’s we will never achieve max hp or fuel mileage in our lifted, big tired jeeps no matter what the engine temp is.

When the xj’s were built they had to meet EPA/GOV requirements for emissions and fuel mileage. 195* thermostat was selected due in part to those factors.
I don’t believe the xj was made to run @ 210*. It just turned out that’s where most ran. Other vehicles aren’t made that way. Sure the operating temps have gone up over the years to make them more fuel/emission efficient, but most still run around 190-200* range. Hence the 192*-193* thermostats were born.

If I were really worried about fuel mileage I wouldn’t drive a jeep, much less a lifted one.
That being said, I do care what kind of mileage I get, but considering that it’s only going to be around 15 mpg on a good day, keeping the engine temp in the 180-200 range ain’t gonna hurt a thing.
The pcm will go to closed loop and adjust the fuel/timing to keep the mixture at it’s best after taking in to account all other factors that it reads, (as long as all sensors are working) weather it’s @ 180* or 235*.

Will it make more hp and better mpg @ a higher temps? Sure it will. Will you be able to tell a difference in the hp and mpg @ 185-195* vs 200-210*, I doubt it without some sophisticated equipment.

If my xj stayed in the 195-205* range all the time I wouldn’t have a problem. But since I do… if this radiator works out I will try it with a few different thermostat temps to try and keep it in the 190-200* range.

[honesT]

http://xjtalk.com/images/special/amazon-performance-radiator-2188.jpg

I bought the same rad 2 days ago from the same shop up here in Vancouver Canada, Taxes in it was $152 Canadian.

The original rad lasted 224,000 KM before the bottom corner started to leak.

So this one should be good for the remaining life of my Cherryok :out:

[Mudderoy]

The radiator swap

Old 3 row all metal next to the aluminum/plastic single row.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-6YJ74KSDQAY/TieY_ta6dOI/AAAAAAAABEs/Fuu46pM_I4c/s576/2011-07-20%25252019.50.19.jpg

Side by side comparison. The cores are even in the back. The single row radiator on the bottom, is a little smaller. The tanks certainly are.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-moA-lJfLEXE/TieY3DjNxsI/AAAAAAAABEo/fE87uVRJ14k/s576/2011-07-20%25252019.52.10.jpg

Here's a shot to show you guys the space between the heavy duty grand cherokee fan clutch and the single row radiator.
Since the cores are about the same size I had just about the same spacing with the 3 row all metal (CSF) radiator.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-i0MtuBwI7eY/TieYhsljO2I/AAAAAAAABEk/7zYzHf-to-g/s800/2011-07-20%25252019.58.54.jpg

After getting the new radiator installed I filled up the radiator with water and waited for it to come up to temp so the thermostat would open.
I waited about 20 minutes and it would never get to 195.

So I filled up the over flow, installed the electric fan, and took it out on a test drive.

I got on I-10 at Fry Rd and accelerated to 70 mph. I put it on cruise and didn't slow down until Igloo rd, or 10.6 miles. I exited and as soon as I slowed down to 60, or so, the coolant temp dropped noticeably from just a hair below 210 to below 210. The needle was half on the 210 mark, then dropped where you could see a space between the needle and the 210 hash mark.

After a U-turn I accelerated to 70 mph and exited Fry Rd, 10.6 miles later.
The temp got a little higher on the return trip, but the need never got fully on 210. After driving the 3 miles down Fry road I got home and snapped this picture after pulling into the garage.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-BYlh7O7Eosw/Tiea242wQ5I/AAAAAAAABFE/B6ToRAPzgDw/2011-07-20%25252021.50.52.jpg

The A/C was on for the entire time.

This test was done at 9:30pm and in 84 degree air temps. Instead of driving the back roads home tomorrow afternoon, I'll take the freeways. The afternoon heat and high speeds will be a good indicator of the cooling efficiency of the new radiator.

So far I can see this is more than a moderate difference.

Total distance traveled from home to Igloo Rd to home was 26 miles.

[96fsxj]

Awesome info here, this is my first post here, but i have followed this for the past week. I ordered a CSF brass/copper 2 row radiator to replace my stock 2 row aluminum core plastic tank rad about 3 weeks ago. I have had highway over heat problems ever since. I have a stock aluminum plastic tank radiator on its way, due to arrive Friday, hopefully will fix this!
Thanks for all your guys awesome info on the site!

[jeepxj95]

thats how much space i have after i removed one of the straps. wish i didn't have too. like the radiator

[Mudderoy]

Awesome info here, this is my first post here, but i have followed this for the past week. I ordered a CSF brass/copper 2 row radiator to replace my stock 2 row aluminum core plastic tank rad about 3 weeks ago. I have had highway over heat problems ever since. I have a stock aluminum plastic tank radiator on its way, due to arrive Friday, hopefully will fix this!
Thanks for all your guys awesome info on the site!

Please let us know if it does. I have been fighting this issue for over 3 years! I would love to be able to tell people without a doubt that going with an aluminum/plastic will solve their problem. :patriot:

[gary63]

will with radiators it depins on what they are made of and how many rows also
how many fins per inch. Also there is the angle the radiator set at you can check this by sliding something though the fins checking the angle.You can change the the angle with shims between the radiator and core support.It will
change how the air will flow if it will go to the right or left up or down.and how long the air take to go though the radiator.To slow and it will heat up and start to put heat back into the radiator. To fast and not anuf time to remove the the heat.sorry this long but there is moore inf. when it come to radiators and cooling.

[Mudderoy]

Before leaving the house I checked the coolant level in the radiator. It was full. The overflow bottle looked empty or nearly so. I filled it up.

I drive 22 miles to work each day. Takes about 45 minutes as I started taking the back roads a couple of years ago. It really helped since I don't have the highway heat creep staying around 55 mph and stopping and starting. My primary reason was it's much shorter and did shave 10 to 15 minutes off my drive time. (MPG)

Normally I run 210, maybe a little above if I drive hard.

After driving over half way to work and not getting past the middle of the hash before 210 and the 210 hash, I did some heavy accelerating. I managed to get the temp up almost to where the needle was touching the 210 hash, but not quite.

This picture was taken after driving into the parking garage and driving up 4 floors and parking. Just after taking this picture the needle dropped slightly to that mid level again. I suspect the mid point is about 195.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-dJ2I94P9Zmw/Tigs1yVm7zI/AAAAAAAABFI/TPTlUvI5gSE/2011-07-21%25252008.41.59.jpg

The entire trip was with A/C on.

Again this afternoon my plan is to take the long way home via the multiple highways.

More info to come!

[KH96XJ]

If you show consistent results under 210 by the time I get back from my Colorado trip next week I'll be placing an order for one most likely as well.

[RustyXJ]

What was the ambient air temp during your tests? Regularly gets @ 100* here in the summer. Thinking I might need to make this radiator change as well.

[Mudderoy]

What was the ambient air temp during your tests? Regularly gets @ 100* here in the summer. Thinking I might need to make this radiator change as well.

This morning it was in the low to mid 80's. It's 96 right now, so it should be around that on my way home at 5pm. I'll make note.

[jeepxj95]

glad the temp dropped. hope it stays down

[Mudderoy]

Air temp 94 degrees.

I was at just before 210 after 6 miles. I was going between 75 and 80 mph (2800 rpm to 3000 rpm).

After about 12 miles the needle was just past the 210. I think I may have seen some black between the needle and the 210 hash mark before I had to slow down due to traffic. That was 16 miles.

The temp started dropping as soon as I got below 70. Soon is was just 1/2 a needle on the 210 hash mark, to the left (Where God intends it to be).

Then after creeping along I ran into cloud cover and then a heavy down poor. Yes rain in Houston.

Then the temp really dropped. By the time I got home it was ridiculously low.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ELdEA_UHetM/Tii2dbPti1I/AAAAAAAABGw/yGNm5flL_8U/2011-07-21%25252018.11.52.jpg

The new radiator along with the other modifications I have already made means the engine runs cooler at highway speeds and cools off rapidly at lower speeds. I did crawl in traffic for about 12 miles and the temps stayed low. I didn't even hint at going up.

I need to do more testing but as it stands right now this is by far the biggest improvement of any modification I have made to try and improve/resolve the running hot issue.

Update, the air temp of 94 was at 5pm, it's now 96. I suspect it was higher on the concrete and asphalt highways.

[96fsxj]

Well i got my radiator a day early so heres the scoop..Pretty much the same results as mudderoy!

-Started out with a stock 2 row aluminium radiator but had a cracked tank
-Replaced this with a 2 row copper/brass CSF radiator
-Had highway overheat creep problem
-Changed stat(twice), checked hoses, checked for exhaust gases in coolant(negitive)
-Went to 70/30 water mix with watterwetter
-No changes to temps
-Complained to radiatorbarn about the problem and they sent me a Vistapro single row aluminum core plastic tanks and gave me the price difference back, and recieved it the next day
-Installed this radiator and no more highway over heat, stays about 2/3 of the way between the second hash and 210(about 185-190* i guess) after 10+ miles of driving @ 70mph and some even in 3rd gear 3k rpm to see if i could get some heat into it.


I did have some fitment issues with the Vistapro, lower transmission cooler line fitting coming from the radiator hit/got really close to the inner fender so had to grind some room and comes with some cheesy brackets for the condenser, so i had to grind the stock ones to make them fit with this radiators plastic side tanks.

Overall thanks mudderoy, cured my problem and i didnt have to fight it for 3 years

[Mudderoy]

Well i got my radiator a day early so heres the scoop..Pretty much the same results as mudderoy!

-Started out with a stock 2 row aluminium radiator but had a cracked tank
-Replaced this with a 2 row copper/brass CSF radiator
-Had highway overheat creep problem
-Changed stat(twice), checked hoses, checked for exhaust gases in coolant(negitive)
-Went to 70/30 water mix with watterwetter
-No changes to temps
-Complained to radiatorbarn about the problem and they sent me a Vistapro single row aluminum core plastic tanks and gave me the price difference back, and recieved it the next day
-Installed this radiator and no more highway over heat, stays about 2/3 of the way between the second hash and 210(about 185-190* i guess) after 10+ miles of driving @ 70mph and some even in 3rd gear 3k rpm to see if i could get some heat into it.


I did have some fitment issues with the Vistapro, lower transmission cooler line fitting coming from the radiator hit/got really close to the inner fender so had to grind some room and comes with some cheesy brackets for the condenser, so i had to grind the stock ones to make them fit with this radiators plastic side tanks.

Overall thanks mudderoy, cured my problem and i didnt have to fight it for 3 years

That's great and more evidence to support our findings here. So glad xjtalk could help, that's at least 50% why were here! :thumbsup:

[96fsxj]

Will give her the full test tomorrow, Drive it about 2 hours to the in-laws cabin and wheel this weekend, we'll see how it does.

It did not like the long gravel hills trying to get to their place 2 weeks ago with the CSF, had to stop and let it cool multiple times

[Mudderoy]

Will give her the full test tomorrow, Drive it about 2 hours to the in-laws cabin and wheel this weekend, we'll see how it does.

It did not like the long gravel hills trying to get to their place 2 weeks ago with the CSF, had to stop and let it cool multiple times

It's just so damned frustrating to have a go anywhere vehicle that can go anywhere but where you want to! :out:

Thanks, looking forward to a positive report. :popcorn:

[Paddletrucker]

I'm glad for you guys. Looks like you're getting on top of this. Now, though, Mudderoy, you've done so many mods that you can probably not make your XJ get hot if you tried. Must be nice to be able to run the A/C idling on trails!!:thumbsup::thumbsup:

I'm glad, too, that if I ever have any problems like this, the testing is already done and I'll have a place to start.

My electric aux. fan still isn't working, but even in the 100+ degree heat here, mine will only get up to the hash mark between 210 and the red if I sit somewhere idling. If I put my foot on the gas and hold the tach at 1500, it instantly starts to cool, though. Once rolling again, it's back just below 210 pretty quickly, even in the first three gears in town.

Of course, I still don't have the A/C working. I'm sure that will change everything I typed above!!

Thanks for posting all of this stuff. I was worried about cooling issues. I'm not now. Just have to have the right radiator, apparently.

[Mudderoy]

I'm glad for you guys. Looks like you're getting on top of this. Now, though, Mudderoy, you've done so many mods that you can probably not make your XJ get hot if you tried. Must be nice to be able to run the A/C idling on trails!!:thumbsup::thumbsup:

I'm glad, too, that if I ever have any problems like this, the testing is already done and I'll have a place to start.

My electric aux. fan still isn't working, but even in the 100+ degree heat here, mine will only get up to the hash mark between 210 and the red if I sit somewhere idling. If I put my foot on the gas and hold the tach at 1500, it instantly starts to cool, though. Once rolling again, it's back just below 210 pretty quickly, even in the first three gears in town.

Of course, I still don't have the A/C working. I'm sure that will change everything I typed above!!

Thanks for posting all of this stuff. I was worried about cooling issues. I'm not now. Just have to have the right radiator, apparently.

Well I think where my trouble came in when I wanted an all metal radiator. I still do, but now understanding that aluminum cools better at the higher temps, I know that metal has to be aluminum.

Yep, anything we can do to save xjtalk members, and visitors, time and money well I feel we've done our job.

[XJ4IV]

It's just so damned frustrating to have a go anywhere vehicle that can go anywhere but where you want to! :out:

Thanks, looking forward to a positive report. :popcorn:

Id have to agree I get people ask me alot how much I can go through in my jeep and I always tell them it'll crawl almost anything except a full bottle of coolant! it sucks to have a very capable rig and cant do crap on the highway!

[Mudderoy]

Id have to agree I get people ask me alot how much I can go through in my jeep and I always tell them it'll crawl almost anything except a full bottle of coolant! it sucks to have a very capable rig and cant do crap on the highway!

Time to go to aluminum my boy! :patriot:

I just got a call from LedfootRacing.com (?) and they were telling me about an all aluminum radiator for $179. American Eagle AE1193-AA

[ike]

Ordered mine yesterday about 9:30 am, expecting it sometime next week.

Went to town for lunch (14-mile trip just to get there). I kept a very close eye on the temp just to note what it was doing. Drove to town the back way, stayed 60 an under, temp stayed below 210* by a good needle. Went through town @ 35 temp went up to just below 210*. Parked, ate lunch, about 1hr got back in more 35 mph to Wal-Mart temp right @ 210*. Went in for about 30 min, then headed back home using the interstate @ 65 mph, temp almost @ the 222* mark.

Outside temp was 101-102* a/c was always in use.

Got home and SURPRISE my new aluminum radiator setting by the door. :eek:
Guess what I’ll be doing on a Friday night.

Should be able to report Saturday or Sunday depending on what the wife has planned.

[Mudderoy]

Ordered mine yesterday about 9:30 am, expecting it sometime next week.

Went to town for lunch (14-mile trip just to get there). I kept a very close eye on the temp just to note what it was doing. Drove to town the back way, stayed 60 an under, temp stayed below 210* by a good needle. Went through town @ 35 temp went up to just below 210*. Parked, ate lunch, about 1hr got back in more 35 mph to Wal-Mart temp right @ 210*. Went in for about 30 min, then headed back home using the interstate @ 65 mph, temp almost @ the 222* mark.

Outside temp was 101-102* a/c was always in use.

Got home and SURPRISE my new aluminum radiator setting by the door. :eek:
Guess what I’ll be doing on a Friday night.

Should be able to report Saturday or Sunday depending on what the wife has planned.

lol did you get the Performance Radiator one?

[ike]

Since I was outta whiskey an beer, I went ahead an change the radiator.

First off I must have a Severe Duty thermal GC v-8 fan clutch, cause it WILL not fit with this radiator. The 1 I’ve been runnin is a HD thermal and it looks to have about the same clearance as your picture.

Got it installed, left er runnin with the a/c on while I got cleaned up. Temp gauge showed 2 full needle widths below 210*. Other thing I noticed was I had that nice SHARP cold air comin out the a/c vents. It’s been blowin nice cold air, just didn’t have that really cold SHARP feel to it.

Ambient temp shows 102-104*

So on to the road test…20 down the road to the gate an straight up 70 for the next 9 miles, down to 50 for 2 miles, back to 70 for the next 20 min, gauge showed needle barely touching the 210 mark (on the low side).
Turned er off at the store for ‘bout 4 min, on restart temp showed ½ way between 210 an 222, hit the road straight back to 70 temp came down to barely touching the 210 mark (on the low side) an stayed there for the return trip.
Slowed down the last 4 miles to 55, temp came down to 2 full needle widths below 210.

I’m satisfied at this time with the results.
I ken drive 70 with the a/c an stay below 210*…I got whiskey an beer…an it’s a Friday.

I didn’t think of taking the scanner with me to see what the PCM was seeing temp wise. I’ll do that later…along with trying a 180* thermostat just to see if this radiator can dissipate enough heat to run cooler.

Thanks for the lead on the radiator Mudderoy, an the folks @ XJTalk for the help…keep ya posted.

[Mudderoy]

Since I was outta whiskey an beer, I went ahead an change the radiator.

First off I must have a Severe Duty thermal GC v-8 fan clutch, cause it WILL not fit with this radiator. The 1 I’ve been runnin is a HD thermal and it looks to have about the same clearance as your picture.

Got it installed, left er runnin with the a/c on while I got cleaned up. Temp gauge showed 2 full needle widths below 210*. Other thing I noticed was I had that nice SHARP cold air comin out the a/c vents. It’s been blowin nice cold air, just didn’t have that really cold SHARP feel to it.

Ambient temp shows 102-104*

So on to the road test…20 down the road to the gate an straight up 70 for the next 9 miles, down to 50 for 2 miles, back to 70 for the next 20 min, gauge showed needle barely touching the 210 mark (on the low side).
Turned er off at the store for ‘bout 4 min, on restart temp showed ½ way between 210 an 222, hit the road straight back to 70 temp came down to barely touching the 210 mark (on the low side) an stayed there for the return trip.
Slowed down the last 4 miles to 55, temp came down to 2 full needle widths below 210.

I’m satisfied at this time with the results.
I ken drive 70 with the a/c an stay below 210*…I got whiskey an beer…an it’s a Friday.

I didn’t think of taking the scanner with me to see what the PCM was seeing temp wise. I’ll do that later…along with trying a 180* thermostat just to see if this radiator can dissipate enough heat to run cooler.

Thanks for the lead on the radiator Mudderoy, an the folks @ XJTalk for the help…keep ya posted.

yep. well time will tell, but it is def different. :cheerleader:

[Mudderoy]

My celebration may have been premature. While driving the regular way home today I was surprised to see the coolant temp rise to 210 then above, ever so slightly. Moving dropped the temp but when I arrived home it was hotter for low speed travel that what I had seen previously.

I'm continuing to monitor and report.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-iniv4gW7b_k/TioCorA7vBI/AAAAAAAABG8/Adk9PeJSrK4/2011-07-22%25252018.04.14.jpg

[4.3LXJ]

Hey Tony, I think you might be on the right track here. I think your radiator situation has improved. Didn't you get yourself a Taurus fan recently? I just fabbed up a shroud for mine which I will mount in a few days. I was going to post the fab when I get around to it. Anyone can do it. It is all done with pop rivets. I am kind of thinking you still might need some more air flow.

[ike]

yep, i noticed that @ low speeds it wasn't as cool as with the 3-core csf, but it seems to maintain a more constent temp @ all speeds. that's why i was gonna check it with the scanner to see what the cts is sending to the ecm.

your gauge looks to be reading a little higher than mine, but you know electric gauges. what really matters is what the ecm is seeing.

if it turns out that it stays in the 198-205* range as it seems, i can live with that. but i'm still gonna try the 180*, just to see if the radiator can maintain a lower temp. i may try a 190* too, if it's the same size, best i can recall it is but will have to check to make sure. as long as it stays below 210* i'll be happy.

oh fyi when i got home i turned off the a/c before i turned off the engine...the cooling fan went off also, so the temp was low enough that it didn't need to be on, that's a first for me with the 102-103* outside temps.

[Mudderoy]

yep, i noticed that @ low speeds it wasn't as cool as with the 3-core csf, but it seems to maintain a more constent temp @ all speeds. that's why i was gonna check it with the scanner to see what the cts is sending to the ecm.

your gauge looks to be reading a little higher than mine, but you know electric gauges. what really matters is what the ecm is seeing.

if it turns out that it stays in the 198-205* range as it seems, i can live with that. but i'm still gonna try the 180*, just to see if the radiator can maintain a lower temp. i may try a 190* too, if it's the same size, best i can recall it is but will have to check to make sure. as long as it stays below 210* i'll be happy.

oh fyi when i got home i turned off the a/c before i turned off the engine...the cooling fan went off also, so the temp was low enough that it didn't need to be on, that's a first for me with the 102-103* outside temps.

Yes, I like the idea of testing with a 180 to see if the radiator has a greater cooling capacity, but for myself I'm going to stick with the 195.

Running hotter at idle, or low speed is consistent with what I have read about 1 row radiators, and that the 3 row copper core performs better at idle and low speed. I agree with you. I need something that performs evenly between idle and highway.

I may yet go to an all aluminum two row, but not right away.

[Mudderoy]

Hey Tony, I think you might be on the right track here. I think your radiator situation has improved. Didn't you get yourself a Taurus fan recently? I just fabbed up a shroud for mine which I will mount in a few days. I was going to post the fab when I get around to it. Anyone can do it. It is all done with pop rivets. I am kind of thinking you still might need some more air flow.

I need to take a few pictures and place it in the "for sale" area. I decided I wasn't going to go with a fan that may fail at any time.

[honesT]

My celebration may have been premature. While driving the regular way home today I was surprised to see the coolant temp rise to 210 then above, ever so slightly. Moving dropped the temp but when I arrived home it was hotter for low speed travel that what I had seen previously.

I'm continuing to monitor and report.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-iniv4gW7b_k/TioCorA7vBI/AAAAAAAABG8/Adk9PeJSrK4/2011-07-22%25252018.04.14.jpg




I found this burping info on line http://www.lunghd.com/Tech_Articles/Cooling/BurpAirMod.htm


Another thing to try is the fine tuned opening & closing SuperStant thermostat #45359 http://www.stant.com/brochure.cfm?brochure=205&location_id=168

Ok, I`m sure this would be a insult so for the newbies http://www.allproducts.com/tool/three-in-one/18-anti_freeze_tester.html

[Mudderoy]

I found this burping info on line http://www.lunghd.com/Tech_Articles/Cooling/BurpAirMod.htm


Another thing to try is the fine tuned opening & closing SuperStant thermostat #45359 http://www.stant.com/brochure.cfm?brochure=205&location_id=168

Ok, I`m sure this would be a insult so for the newbies http://www.allproducts.com/tool/three-in-one/18-anti_freeze_tester.html

Thanks, but mine is a 1998, it's mama (the factory) should have taught it how to burp itself. ;)

Hey all good links and info! :thanx:

[96fsxj]

Well here is my findings after the first trip with the Vistapro OE radiator.

About 60 Miles of highway @ 65-70mph with A/C on didnt move off 195* with outside temp at about 90*

Then about 15 miles of paved back road at 55 same at about 195*

Then gravel roads down to the bottom of the canyon and back up the other side, seen about 220 heading up a fairly steep grade for 2 miles w/out A/C, but cooled down quick once i got to the top.

Out wheeling/driving old logging roads it would bounce between 185-220, but as soon as the second fan came on it cooled right down.

Then on the way back it was about the same outside temps, and with the A/C on headed up the steep grade it hit the white hash before the red and not sure if it would have kept going or not if i had to pull the hill any longer.

2 things i am going to try now is to fix the fan shroud on the main electric fan, as the one i had built for the CSF wont work for this rad. It has about a 3 inch gap on the bottom of the fan.

Also am going to wire up the secondary fan to a manual switch.

[ike]

how did we miss this one???

Amazon.com: Omix-Ada 17101.21 Radiator: Automotive@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41caDW%2BfE3L.@@AMEPARAM@@41caDW%2BfE3L

couldn't find any real tech info on it.

[Mudderoy]

how did we miss this one???

http://www.amazon.com/Omix-Ada-17101-21-Radiator/dp/B000FQ7J1W/?tag=5336612503-20

couldn't find any real tech info on it.

I was going cheap as possible. I didn't want to spend $250 on something I wasn't sure would fix my problem.

[ike]

i can understand that. wish i could find more info on it. the one i've got now is working just fine. haven't had a full needle on 210 yet.
how's it working down there for you?

[Mudderoy]

i can understand that. wish i could find more info on it. the one i've got now is working just fine. haven't had a full needle on 210 yet.
how's it working down there for you?

I saw it over 210, needle still touching a couple of times. Once while in traffic and once doing 75 to 80 mph on the highway. Most of the time it's below 210 or at that magical spot where the needle it touching the 210 but not completely on it.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-BLFbANOosdc/Ti9ItGXdFPI/AAAAAAAABHI/RUMoQcPWfTE/2011-07-26%25252017.58.16.jpghttps://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-iniv4gW7b_k/TioCorA7vBI/AAAAAAAABG8/Adk9PeJSrK4/2011-07-22%25252018.04.14.jpg

[jeepxj95]

just over 210 i wouldnt worrie about it. but like it was be4 i would.

[honesT]

Just curious what percentage water to antifreexe are you guys using 50/50?

What is the highest amount of antifreeze can you use and still get the engine to heat up to 195, 70% antifreeze/ 30% water or is this to much ???

I live in Canada Vancouver area so I tried to mix it close to 50/50 to keep my heater blowing hot air but might drain a couple of liters and top it up with straight anitfreeze after more research. I`m more worried about keeping the engine temp to spec...

Thanks...

I guess I could always drain a couple liters and add water for the colder months:cool:

[honesT]

It looks like I just found the answer to my own question unless someone finds a fault in this explaination or finds a better one.

Qoute:
Question -- When would 100-percent antifreeze be best?

Answer -- Never! Never! Never! The beneficial effect of raising the boiling point ends with about 70-percent antifreeze. During the summer, engines will run warmer to hotter; therefore, as the percentage of antifreeze increases, heat transfer decreases because antifreeze has a lower specific heat than water. Let’s see why

http://www.greenmediaonline.com/ME2/Audiences/dirmod.asp?sid=&nm=&type=Publishing&mod=Publications%3A%3AArticle&mid=8F3A7027421841978F18BE895F87F791&tier=4&id=6E97F308E781406A8DFB81C4ADA42C49&AudID=CC89A83758524B50A259F8625D73475B

[Mudderoy]

It looks like I just found the answer to my own question unless someone finds a fault in this explaination or finds a better one.

Qoute:
Question -- When would 100-percent antifreeze be best?

Answer -- Never! Never! Never! The beneficial effect of raising the boiling point ends with about 70-percent antifreeze. During the summer, engines will run warmer to hotter; therefore, as the percentage of antifreeze increases, heat transfer decreases because antifreeze has a lower specific heat than water. Let’s see why

http://www.greenmediaonline.com/ME2/Audiences/dirmod.asp?sid=&nm=&type=Publishing&mod=Publications%3A%3AArticle&mid=8F3A7027421841978F18BE895F87F791&tier=4&id=6E97F308E781406A8DFB81C4ADA42C49&AudID=CC89A83758524B50A259F8625D73475B

Yeah I was surprised to learn that anti-freeze makes things run warmer. I haven't tested my levels, but by design I am running more water and less anti-freeze that I was. I believe it was 50/50 before changing the radiator, but when I filled the radiator I filled it with water.

In South Texas freezing coolant isn't much of a problem.

[4.3LXJ]

The reason most people advocate 50/50 is that is the mixture that allows the greatest specific heat (resistance to heating and greatest heat transfer). However in your situation you might want to increase that. IIRC that mixture is good to -30° F before freezing. If you want greater protection, you have to go to a higher mixture.

[jeepxj95]

i still need to add ani freeze be4 winter. didn't add any after i flushed my radiator

[honesT]

It looks like I just found the answer to my own question unless someone finds a fault in this explaination or finds a better one.

Qoute:
Question -- When would 100-percent antifreeze be best?

Answer -- Never! Never! Never! The beneficial effect of raising the boiling point ends with about 70-percent antifreeze. During the summer, engines will run warmer to hotter; therefore, as the percentage of antifreeze increases, heat transfer decreases because antifreeze has a lower specific heat than water. Let’s see why

http://www.greenmediaonline.com/ME2/Audiences/dirmod.asp?sid=&nm=&type=Publishing&mod=Publications%3A%3AArticle&mid=8F3A7027421841978F18BE895F87F791&tier=4&id=6E97F308E781406A8DFB81C4ADA42C49&AudID=CC89A83758524B50A259F8625D73475B


I have something to add for the Newbies just learning about the cooling system and for those of you to stressed out to read the article,
Running more than a 50/50 mix or higher percentage of antifreeze will mean that the heat will not be drawn from the engine block as stated in the article mixing 70/30 is affecting the heat transfer putting your head gasket and who knows what else at risk :mad0090:

And also your heater willl blow cold air cuz the anit freeze is`nt sucking heat out of the block so the fluid in the cooling system stays cold...

Hope that helped, I know it takes a load off when some takes a moment to make things clearer.

[honesT]

Wow this post is getting long winded but, I just stumbled across info that might be usefull as stated on this web page there is products you can add to the coolant that enhance the transfer. Water wetter from red line claims it takes off 10 degrees with a 50/50 mix and double that with straight water.

Got it from this site under other tricks :http://books.google.com/books?id=X95PU39mzSMC&pg=PA176&lpg=PA176&dq=jeep+xj+engine+air+capacity+cfm&source=bl&ots=CGN00gNoXG&sig=bUy0E852C1FG8MwuzjzXHVPudCY&hl=en&ei=LEU3TunoMoTSiAL6qaT8Dg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CDAQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q&f=false

Good luck with your heating problems hope everyone finds the fix...

[4.3LXJ]

I have used water wetter. It does work after a fashion when the temps are in the normal range. But if you are going to overheat, it won't save you once you reach a certain threshold.

[msmoorenburg]

I have used water wetter. It does work after a fashion when the temps are in the normal range. But if you are going to overheat, it won't save you once you reach a certain threshold.

I agree water wetter is ok to use. But if your system can't cool now, water wetter is not going to cure it

[RustyXJ]

Well here is my findings after the first trip with the Vistapro OE radiator.

About 60 Miles of highway @ 65-70mph with A/C on didnt move off 195* with outside temp at about 90*

Then about 15 miles of paved back road at 55 same at about 195*

Then gravel roads down to the bottom of the canyon and back up the other side, seen about 220 heading up a fairly steep grade for 2 miles w/out A/C, but cooled down quick once i got to the top.

Out wheeling/driving old logging roads it would bounce between 185-220, but as soon as the second fan came on it cooled right down.

Then on the way back it was about the same outside temps, and with the A/C on headed up the steep grade it hit the white hash before the red and not sure if it would have kept going or not if i had to pull the hill any longer.

2 things i am going to try now is to fix the fan shroud on the main electric fan, as the one i had built for the CSF wont work for this rad. It has about a 3 inch gap on the bottom of the fan.

Also am going to wire up the secondary fan to a manual switch.

Bummer. Was about to pull the trigger on one of these aluminum single-row radiators, until I read this. I pull some extended grades on the freeway over here, and my temps are really climbing up there...enough so that I pulled off the road yesterday to let it cool down. Now I don't know what to do.

For the record, I'm not really sure what radiator I currently have. I picked it up, basically new, from a friend a couple years ago. I was told it was a 3-core. I have the stock (replaces several thousand miles ago) fan clutch, and factory shroud.

[96fsxj]

Well the problem wasn't the radiator rustyxj. When I put in my radiator the tranny line was close to the inner fender and I had to grind some clearance, and it must have got some metal shavings into the aux fan and seized it. Found that and took the same trip this weekend and never seen more than maybe 225( just past 210 on the gauge) at most. But was closer to 195 with a/c on the whole trip. Hope I didn't scare you away from it.

And by the way the fan was working with the csf, that was the first thing I checked. Just didn't check it after I put in this radiator.

[RustyXJ]

Thanks for the update 96fsxj. That's good news, at least as far as helping me pull the trigger.

[ike]

For those that are still keeping up with this, today I put in 180* thermostat…

Why I tried a 180* thermostat. To see IF the RADIATOR was capable of keeping it cooler. :bang:

Ambient temp was 105-107* @ time of test
Engine temps were off my scanner
A/C was in use @ all times

Highway speed 70 mph for 1 hr…steady 193* (with 190* temp was 198*)

In town stop and go traffic 45 min…moving low speeds (under 40 mph) 197* (with 190* temp was 203*)

Stopped in traffic (times varied) high of 213* (with 190* high of 213*)

IMHO the stock type 1 row aluminum/plastic replacement radiator will do…but it is not capable of maintaining any lower engine temps with the current ambient temps.
I will add that it is still a better choice than the CSF 3 core I had, with the exception of in low speed/traffic situations, but not by much.

I would like to see a max temp of 200* but I’m not going to buy a 2-core aluminum radiator to try @ this time. I’m not sure that a 2-core aluminum, which has smaller tubes than the single core, would do any better since they are the same overall thickness. :sign0181:

I think that to get any lower temps would require a larger radiator, which there is no room for. (Possible exceptions could be something like a $500.00 Griffin 3-core)

That’s my story and I’m sticking to it. :drinking:

[Mudderoy]

For those that are still keeping up with this, today I put in 180* thermostat…

Why I tried a 180* thermostat. To see IF the RADIATOR was capable of keeping it cooler. :bang:

Ambient temp was 105-107* @ time of test
Engine temps were off my scanner
A/C was in use @ all times

Highway speed 70 mph for 1 hr…steady 193* (with 190* temp was 198*)

In town stop and go traffic 45 min…moving low speeds (under 40 mph) 197* (with 190* temp was 203*)

Stopped in traffic (times varied) high of 213* (with 190* high of 213*)

IMHO the stock type 1 row aluminum/plastic replacement radiator will do…but it is not capable of maintaining any lower engine temps with the current ambient temps.
I will add that it is still a better choice than the CSF 3 core I had, with the exception of in low speed/traffic situations, but not by much.

I would like to see a max temp of 200* but I’m not going to buy a 2-core aluminum radiator to try @ this time. I’m not sure that a 2-core aluminum, which has smaller tubes than the single core, would do any better since they are the same overall thickness. :sign0181:

I think that to get any lower temps would require a larger radiator, which there is no room for. (Possible exceptions could be something like a $500.00 Griffin 3-core)

That’s my story and I’m sticking to it. :drinking:

Yeah I'm seeing the same thing. My temps have gone up in traffic, stop and go, and gone down on the highway. I don't see anything over 215ish (you know where the efan comes on by itself).

I probably will go with a two core all aluminum soon and I'll add to this thread when I do.

[ike]

that's a 195* not 190* thermstat

[Mudderoy]

Using my new OBD II software on my Android I monitored several engine stats. One was coolant temp. 205 was as high as it got on the way to work this morning. It will be interesting to see how high it gets on the way home in the hotter outside air temps.

[96fsxj]

Which adapter and program do you have for your phone?

[Mudderoy]

Which adapter and program do you have for your phone?

Check out this post... :link: (http://www.xjtalk.com/showthread.php?t=8182)

Short answer, Torque and an elm-327 :D

[puredrive]

what two row all aluminum did you have in mind?

My XJ has 135K and want to keep it on good working order. Been buying coolant system parts and the last item I need is the radiator.

[Mudderoy]

what two row all aluminum did you have in mind?

My XJ has 135K and want to keep it on good working order. Been buying coolant system parts and the last item I need is the radiator.

I haven't really started a hard target search yet. Champion (which has some fitment issues), and the American Eagle - which I don't know very much about yet.

[puredrive]

I haven't really started a hard target search yet. Champion (which has some fitment issues), and the American Eagle - which I don't know very much about yet.

only I know is radiatorbarn.com

[Mudderoy]

only I know is radiatorbarn.com

RadiatorBarn was very nice to me and even replaced the 3 core CSF no issues, but they sold me a problem not a solution. I'll take some of that responsibility as I could have just bought a stock replacement.

[puredrive]

RadiatorBarn was very nice to me and even replaced the 3 core CSF no issues, but they sold me a problem not a solution. I'll take some of that responsibility as I could have just bought a stock replacement.

I think I'm just gonna go with the radiator that you are currently running. My jeep is mainly a mall crawler. It's already gonna be a year since I had it..And I am yet to take it to off road trail. :confused:

[Mudderoy]

I think I'm just gonna go with the radiator that you are currently running. My jeep is mainly a mall crawler. It's already gonna be a year since I had it..And I am yet to take it to off road trail. :confused:

Well not that any of us are made of money, but I don't plan on trashing this single core, or selling it, as I can always use it as a spare! Never hurts to have one "in stock" for your daily driver.

[Carves]

This is what I found out today.

Apparently we don’t have a real radiator repair shop in town. He tried to be helpful but had no real information of any use and had to make a phone call to someone else that was no help either.

So after that it was on to 2 different jeep parts men.
One at Dallas Dodge says the part #’s from Morris 4x4 cross over to this #5191929AA = max cooling is available for $184.00.

Parts man @ Greenville jeep says the 3 part #’s from Morris 4x4 cross over to 3 other part #’s 5012883AA, 50279682AA, 5207968AA and is the only the last one is available any more, but is out of stock at this time and don’t know when anymore will be made available.
Now to the 5191929AA, he looked it up and says it goes back to the 5012883AA and the 5027968AA, both of which are no longer available and the 5191929AA that is available and is listed for a 2001 Eastern Asia. He had no idea what that meant. :rolleyes: :D .... I’m wondering if it means right hand drive. Has anyone looked at a RHD Cherokee’s radiator to see if it is in fact different?When he ran the #’s back the show they fit from ‘91-01.
Lots a numbers no real help.

The pics in this link might help make sense of some of the part numbers ---> http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f11/new-cooling-system-runs-hotter-than-old-1258682/index2.html#post12095920

.... and the difference with a RHD export radiator - is that the clowns dangled the auto tranny heat exchanger in the hot side of the radiator ... Instead of the cool side .. :bang:

[puredrive]

any update on the single core radiator? has it kept the temps at or below 210F?

Cheers,
EM

[Mudderoy]

any update on the single core radiator? has it kept the temps at or below 210F?

Cheers,
EM

On the days it was 105 air temp and 210 air intake temp, I hit 232 sitting still. I would drop to 222 in less than a mile drive 40 to 50 mph.

It still didn't get as hot as the 3 row brass/copper CSF.

I don't drive highway very often so this is back roads stop and go. Since the air temps are in the low 90's now I don't get above 210.

These temps are measurements from the OBD II not me guessing at the analog gauge.

[LizardRunner]

Nice! lots of information. I've been checking out the American Eagle, Champion and Griffin radiators and will most likely go with the Champion all aluminum from strictly the cost factor and the fact it dumps both rows into the feed line, instead of just the back row. All three will have some fitment issues (that's just expected when your getting away from stock parts) but I have metal cutters and everything else needed to retro fit. I have already planned to do away with the hp robbing stock fan and put in three electric ones with a custom shroud set up. I know I will most likely need to fabricate a few mounting tabs for the radiator. I'll be making the shroud with a bleeder opening and bring it as close to the engine as I dare for better air flow through the radiator.

By the way, smaller tubes actually cool the coolant better than fat tubes because there is more air flow over a smaller volume of liquid so you get faster cool down of the fluid moving through the radiator. for those with a copper core radiator, aluminum moves more heat faster than copper.

[Mudderoy]

Nice! lots of information. I've been checking out the American Eagle, Champion and Griffin radiators and will most likely go with the Champion all aluminum from strictly the cost factor and the fact it dumps both rows into the feed line, instead of just the back row. All three will have some fitment issues (that's just expected when your getting away from stock parts) but I have metal cutters and everything else needed to retro fit. I have already planned to do away with the hp robbing stock fan and put in three electric ones with a custom shroud set up. I know I will most likely need to fabricate a few mounting tabs for the radiator. I'll be making the shroud with a bleeder opening and bring it as close to the engine as I dare for better air flow through the radiator.

By the way, smaller tubes actually cool the coolant better than fat tubes because there is more air flow over a smaller volume of liquid so you get faster cool down of the fluid moving through the radiator. for those with a copper core radiator, aluminum moves more heat faster than copper.

What ever you get please update us (ME) with the results, installation included. I'm not keen on the Champion since they know it has issues with the distance between the filler neck and the top cap that holds the radiator in place.

[LizardRunner]

Tony, what ever I go with, I'll post up an install with pics now that I finally have the cameras working again. I pretty much figure I'll have to do some little mods to what every model I go with. I am looking more for a 2 core than a 3 core.

[Mudderoy]

Tony, what ever I go with, I'll post up an install with pics now that I finally have the cameras working again. I pretty much figure I'll have to do some little mods to what every model I go with. I am looking more for a 2 core than a 3 core.

I agree. After my experience with the single core, I'll be going dual core all aluminum.

[lifted1994xj]

I just wanted to get your guys opinions on my setup and situation. I have csf aluminum single core radiator with plastic caps. It can be fine around town 195 - 200 on flat highway a/c on. But when i go up into the mountians winter or summer climbing the passes it will reach 225 - 230 no a/c. Once i go down the other side it cools down very fast. I did the radiator, water pump, and t-stat. Also i have a b&m supercooler run through the radiator.

[LizardRunner]

I just wanted to get your guys opinions on my setup and situation. I have csf aluminum single core radiator with plastic caps. It can be fine around town 195 - 200 on flat highway a/c on. But when i go up into the mountians winter or summer climbing the passes it will reach 225 - 230 no a/c. Once i go down the other side it cools down very fast. I did the radiator, water pump, and t-stat. Also i have a b&m supercooler run through the radiator.

sounds like a fairly good setup. climbing your pumping torque which will build heat, it cooling down when the load is lighter is a good sign. if your wanting more cooling a 2 core might be something to start thinking about for the future. I tow a boat and have a 14 x 7 enclosed trailer, so a 2 core is a must upgrade for me. Now I just need the purchase money which I will get once the doctor bills are paid off and I can keep outa the doctors office for a while.

[Mudderoy]

I just wanted to get your guys opinions on my setup and situation. I have csf aluminum single core radiator with plastic caps. It can be fine around town 195 - 200 on flat highway a/c on. But when i go up into the mountians winter or summer climbing the passes it will reach 225 - 230 no a/c. Once i go down the other side it cools down very fast. I did the radiator, water pump, and t-stat. Also i have a b&m supercooler run through the radiator.

I found out recently that my 1998 came with a dual row aluminum/plastic. I have a towing package. This is the main reason I'm going to be replacing my single row aluminum/plastic with and all aluminum dual row.

I'll keep the new one I have now for the 99.

[LizardRunner]

yep that is an awesome spare to have.

[lifted1994xj]

Would you think it would be worth it to run the trans cooler by itself? I have a temp gauge so i could keep an eye on it to make sure it doesnt run to cold. But im thinking while climbing hard it is pumping a lot of hot fluid out of the torque converter into the radiator causing the water to heat up, when i climb the hills the trans temp can reach 210 on the output cooler line.

[Mudderoy]

yep that is an awesome spare to have.

I have a 2 row brass/copper, I have a 3 row brass/copper, and soon I'll have a single row aluminum/plastic. 3 spares!!!!! :out:

[XJScarlet]

I am having second thoughts about my radiator now. It was the first thing I bought for my Jeep and I picked up an aluminum one from NAPA. I also redid the hoses and the thermostat, my temp still gets over 210 when idling in traffic, no a/c on a hot day. :confused:

Would installing an auxillary fan switch in the dash help cool it down? Does spacing the hood up help as well?

:confused:

[Carves]

I have a 2 row brass/copper, I have a 3 row brass/copper, and soon I'll have a single row aluminum/plastic. 3 spares!!!!! :out:

3 sheets of glass and 12 crankshafts ....





.... and you'll have a nice set of XJ coffee tables ..... :D




I am having second thoughts about my radiator now. It was the first thing I bought for my Jeep and I picked up an aluminum one from NAPA. I also redid the hoses and the thermostat, my temp still gets over 210 when idling in traffic, no a/c on a hot day. :confused:

Would installing an auxillary fan switch in the dash help cool it down? Does spacing the hood up help as well?

:confused:


Probably best to make sure everything is working 100% before worrying about changing ....

Add a rad cap, fan clutch, waterpump & correct coolant ratio to your list so you know the stock setup is as good as it can be .....


.... and start making other adjustments as required.

AuxFan over-ride can be downright handy at times .... ;)

[Mudderoy]

I am having second thoughts about my radiator now. It was the first thing I bought for my Jeep and I picked up an aluminum one from NAPA. I also redid the hoses and the thermostat, my temp still gets over 210 when idling in traffic, no a/c on a hot day. :confused:

Would installing an auxillary fan switch in the dash help cool it down? Does spacing the hood up help as well?

:confused:

Mine got up to 212 today but temps are down to the low 90's. Last week when it was 100 to 105 I was seeing 222 to 232!

[BlueXJ]

I bought the Champion all aluminum. I replaced a 3 row copper/brass radiator. I only overheated in a long line at a drive thru. I now run below 200 on any road at any speed above stop. It gets to 212 in a long drive thru, but I have yet to overheat.

A little history with my Jeep: It is a Renix with the expansion tank. The expansion tank is aluminum with a standard radiator cap. The water pump is high flow as is the thermostat housing. I have a 185 thermostat. The fan clutch is a ZJ one from NAPA, and finally the A/C fan is the new type with the curved blades.

I think I have the overheating whipped, at last.

[jeepxj95]

eventually i want to put the 90 back to stock. well almost i cant put the rad temp senator back in it was cut out of the harness. that or find something for the overflow. cant decide. right now it is kinda converted over to the open system ( rad only ). po's :(

[LizardRunner]

You mean the wiring was completely cut out of the harness? or just snipped back? if it was just snipped back you can simply butt splice and shrink tube the connector to be able to put the sensor back. both the open and closed systems have their merits just depends on your preference mostly as long as you keep either system in good working order.

[4.3LXJ]

Tony, is that the dual wide core?

If so, that is what my Griffin is. It went in, but it is much thicker than a stock radiator. It gets about an inch closer to the mechanical fan. Don't know if that is an issue for you. got mine fixed, a little JB weld on a seam. It stays at 195° at 70 mph with the Taurus fan only at near triple digits here

[jeepxj95]

You mean the wiring was completely cut out of the harness? or just snipped back? if it was just snipped back you can simply butt splice and shrink tube the connector to be able to put the sensor back. both the open and closed systems have their merits just depends on your preference mostly as long as you keep either system in good working order.

it was snipped back and taped really good. whats the bennifits and down falls between the two?

[DeftwillP]

so.........should we skip the cu1193 or whatever radiator Mudderoy? Just go with the all aluminum 2 row? Ready to order here.

[Mudderoy]

so.........should we skip the cu1193 or whatever radiator Mudderoy? Just go with the all aluminum 2 row? Ready to order here.

My single core plastic/aluminum is working so well I'm scared to change it! My Jeep no longer smells hot even after a drive of 24 miles on the freeway at 70 to 80 mph.

I can give my :thumbsup: to what I've tried. Two row aluminum makes sense, but then again the 3 row CSF did too.

[LizardRunner]

it was snipped back and taped really good. whats the bennifits and down falls between the two?

The closed system has to be burped to get any air out. Think of air in a closed system like an air bubble in your blood stream, it ain't good or pretty.

The open system can belch any air all by it's self so no burping needed. I've never Owned any vehicle with a closed coolant system so I have given you all the info I know on them.

[srocks]

Mudderoy very nice write up and research! This is the only site I've found that has talked and experience a few single core radiators.

I've got a leak somewhere and I'll probably replace rather than fix (radiator is 10+ years old, it might even be the original). Not sure if I'll attempt the replacement myself as I do not have a garage. I'm leaning towards an alum/plastic single core instead of the 2 core all metal.

[DirtBound Offroad]

well I hate bumping threads, but I figure ill put in my experience.

I have been running 3 core CSF radiators and 3 core aluminum radiators for years always had heat issues.

Recently I swapped the AW4 out for an AX15 and the heat went down but not away on the highway. So after replacing everything in my cooling system, I figured the only thing left was the radiator even though it was only 4 months old.

SO i Put a $100 autozone stock radiator in and so far the last 3 weeks it has ran nice and cool 210 - 215 tops. I was even able to charge up the AC and use it all the time now.

So I have to agree the 3 core radiators are not as effective at cooling then the stock ones are.

[Mudderoy]

well I hate bumping threads, but I figure ill put in my experience.

I have been running 3 core CSF radiators and 3 core aluminum radiators for years always had heat issues.

Recently I swapped the AW4 out for an AX15 and the heat went down but not away on the highway. So after replacing everything in my cooling system, I figured the only thing left was the radiator even though it was only 4 months old.

SO i Put a $100 autozone stock radiator in and so far the last 3 weeks it has ran nice and cool 210 - 215 tops. I was even able to charge up the AC and use it all the time now.

So I have to agree the 3 core radiators are not as effective at cooling then the stock ones are.

Good to know something else works besides the Mopar. Thanks!

[JTProuhet]

Well here i am beating a dead horse probably. But i have a 98 i think i kicked my over heating problems but my factory radiator has sprung a leak and need to order a new one. And i have been researching and researching radiators the past week. And i have no idea what to get. I've been looking at the American eagle 2 row all aluminum. But then have also been looking at just a factory radiator from Napa or local parts store. I just don't know which one to bite the bullet on.. Any update fellas? @mudderoy @jeepxj95?

[Mudderoy]

Get a factory Mopar. I didn't see a big difference between the single core and the dual core Mopar radiator. The dual makes me feel better and it is what came in my Jeep when it was new.

[Brasscatz]

I'll second the OEM replacement. The XJ has such a finicky cooling system and when I replaced mine with an OEM, it worked perfectly. Now I just have to do the heater core :(

[JTProuhet]

Alright thanks guys

[autotech98]

I'll second the OEM replacement. The XJ has such a finicky cooling system and when I replaced mine with an OEM, it worked perfectly. Now I just have to do the heater core :(

Me too :smiley-scared003: not looking forward to that.

[702XJCruiser]

I had 2 csf 2 row radiators. Both sprung multiple leaks and ran warm. I got a plastic/aluminum spectra radiator from PepBoys for $90 and it works like a champ in Las Vegas summers.

[JTProuhet]

We will see how the csf 1 row aluminum radiators are.. I just got mine in the mail yesterday.. Lifetime warranty. Guy at radiator.com said they have less than 5% nationwide come back. Or they won't carry them

[autotech98]

Oem rad here works like a charm

[JTProuhet]

I was gonna go oem.. But not for the price tag..

[autotech98]

You can get oem without buying from mopar...they use the major radiator manufacturers for their parts...i think i paid 120 for mine

[JTProuhet]

Where'd you get it from? Do you happen to know?

[autotech98]

I beleive it was autozone or advanced cant remmember. It was like 4 years ago sorry.pretty much any of your higher quality manufacturers are gonna be true to the oem design specks. I did one in my brother in law's 94 also the dealer wanted like $700 to replace it

[autotech98]

Just checked online advanced was 103 autozone was 105 both were spectra cool brand

[JTProuhet]

Oh gotcha. This csf that i got is supposed to be oe specs

[JTProuhet]

Oreillys has a Murray brand for like 102

[autotech98]

Cool hope it works for you, id recomend flushing the system before you change radiator get the crud out before the newness goes in :D

[JTProuhet]

Yessir. Heater core is about 7 months old and i flushed it about a dozen times. Gonna do a new pump and another new tstat when the radiator goes in

[cantab27]

6622



last 12 months or so.......theres another one not in pic....:smiley-laughing021:

[autotech98]

A couple of those look like they danced with your fan cantab....

[autotech98]

Yessir. Heater core is about 7 months old and i flushed it about a dozen times. Gonna do a new pump and another new tstat when the radiator goes in

cool that should save you some headaches later

[cantab27]

A couple of those look like they danced with your fan cantab....

yep one was winch jeep the other was me shiny grand ....winch jeep yeah ok but the grand no one knows what happened ...:confused:

[downsy]

Anyone have any luck using the Crown 52028133 radiators? They are supposed to be the equivlant of the Mopar 2 row HD (Towing package) radiators. When I was replacing my radiator last year I wasn't paying attention and picked up the single 1" core Spectra Premium CU1193. It was half the thickness of the clogged OEM rad I took out but I already had everything apart and rolled the dice anyway. It largely fixed my cooling problems but after I dropped the winch on the front and blocked some of the airflow it has become borderline and will overheat on long uphill pulls in 100 degree weather with the air on.

I've got one pulled up on EBAY and Amazon for about 180 with free shipping and am about to pull the trigger if no one says they are garbage. I haven't been dissapointed in CROWN parts yet. Their replacement leaf packs I have in the back of my Jeep now have been awesome and helped me get together my "upcountry" suspension package.

Thanks guys.

[cpttuna]

Interesting reading about your radiator problems. I have no overheating problems in any of the 5 XJ's in the family. They all get preventive maintenance. I use the clutch fan from the GC like many others. I usually use a 70/30 mix of prestone and distilled water. I did not notice much discussion about coolant used. Maybe it makes no difference to you guys in Texas. I replaced the radiators in the 01's because of leaks after about 14 years of service. I went with the Spectra from Autozone. I went with them because they had one, and it had a lifetime warrant. Both have been in now over 6 months with no problems. I have no big lifts on the jeeps in the family and nothing blocking cooling flow. Do XJ's in your area that are not lifted have the same cooling problems?

[downsy]

In Cali (where I am now) and in Texas where I'm from I'd never use 70 percent antifreeze and 30 percent water. No need for that kind of freeze protection here. I usually just run 50/50 because we do get cold snaps in Texas that will drop into the teens.

My jeep came from the factory with the 2 core rad (towing package). Like I said I dropped the single core spectra in. Which usually works fine until you combine long uphill steep grades like we have out here in California, high heat and a winch to block some airflow for you.

As for other jeeps. It's hit and miss. Some guys run the stock cooling system on their modified lifted big tires jeeps others struggle to make it work at stock height.

I've had two other jeeps and didn't have cooling system issues with those but I did t run a winch and never lived in places with the hills and mtn passes we have here in SoCal.


Dealership is open on Monday. I'm just going to call them and see if they can get a factory one overnighted.

Oh and my vehicles all get PMed on the regular by the book.


Sent from my iPhone

[slvmart]

Here's a bit of info on anti-freeze mixtures :

[downsy]

Found a good deal for a MOPAR HD radiator from a local guy so have that going in now. Wasn't able to finish tonight since I got off work 3 hours late but got it in place and have to finish up tomorrow or the next day depending on work.

[bluedragon436]

Found a good deal for a MOPAR HD radiator from a local guy so have that going in now. Wasn't able to finish tonight since I got off work 3 hours late but got it in place and have to finish up tomorrow or the next day depending on work.

How has this Mopar HD radiator worked on your XJ?? How was the install, pretty straight forward and smooth?? Drove my XJ Saturday (70˚ day) for about 45 miles (round trip) and it ran like a champ, and stayed below 210 the whole time.. But drove it yesterday (85˚) I drove it about 25miles (one way to work on friend's XJ) and it ran below 210 almost all the way there until I was sitting trying to figure out my GPS wanted me to do, and it started to studder a bit then cut off.. then wouldn't start back up till it cooled down, (same thing it did the first time I took it to inspection) so am going to replace radiator, water pump, both radiator hoses, and T-stat and install ZJ HD fan clutch.. as well as flushing heater core..

[autotech98]

James maybe replace the temp sending unit on t stat housing too. I had an issue with mine where it would stutter and shut off too. Replaced the sending unit and seemed to clear it up. I recall hearing the ecu will use that info to shut down engine so if its out of range it could make it think you are overheating.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I547

[downsy]

It's worked great. Even with a winch with a soft cover blocking a good chunk of the grille I can still climb up the I-8 hill at 70 without working about overheating with the AC on.




Sent from my iPhone

[Ben824]

Mudderoy, after all this time has gone by, how are you feeling about your Performance Radiator 2188 radiator? I am having bad experience with CSF 3 Row Brass radiator. My Jeep runs 225-240 down here in Georgia and I have to run the heater to get the temps down to 215-220. I have done literally everything imaginable and taken it to 4 different shops and nobody can answer why its running hot. I have come to the conclusion that despite the reputation of the CSF 3 row and the fact that it is the second warranty replacement only a year old, that this radiator just isn't up to cooling the Jeep. I am desperate and want to make sure I make the right decision and I like the idea of the Performance Radiator 2188 being 1-7/16" thick not far off from the Mopar max cooling which is 1-5/8" thick. Everyone else that is stock style is 1" to 1-1/4"

[Mudderoy]

Mudderoy, after all this time has gone by, how are you feeling about your Performance Radiator 2188 radiator? I am having bad experience with CSF 3 Row Brass radiator. My Jeep runs 225-240 down here in Georgia and I have to run the heater to get the temps down to 215-220. I have done literally everything imaginable and taken it to 4 different shops and nobody can answer why its running hot. I have come to the conclusion that despite the reputation of the CSF 3 row and the fact that it is the second warranty replacement only a year old, that this radiator just isn't up to cooling the Jeep. I am desperate and want to make sure I make the right decision and I like the idea of the Performance Radiator 2188 being 1-7/16" thick not far off from the Mopar max cooling which is 1-5/8" thick. Everyone else that is stock style is 1" to 1-1/4"

I got rid of all of them. I have a Mopar 2 row with plastic tanks. The 99 has the Mopar single row that I bought to test the 98 with.

Get a cooling system pressure tester and see if you have any leaks in the system. The problem I had was two things. The heater core and the coolant temp sensor/gauge.

I bought a external temp sensor that measures the temp on the housing of the thermostat housing. It runs about 215 to 217 running 70 mph down the highway in 95/97 degree air temps. Jumps up to 222 after I get off the freeway and sitting at the light. Then is back down to 213 during the 3 miles of stop and go traffic to the house.

Before I added a variable resistor to the coolant temp sensor I would get a dash alarm for over heat and the external temp gauge would be around 225 or 230. That was a couple of years ago when it was 100/102 air temps.

The gauges lie!

But I do have to stress that you need your cooling system to be 100%

[Ben824]

I got rid of all of them. I have a Mopar 2 row with plastic tanks. The 99 has the Mopar single row that I bought to test the 98 with.

Get a cooling system pressure tester and see if you have any leaks in the system. The problem I had was two things. The heater core and the coolant temp sensor/gauge.

I bought a external temp sensor that measures the temp on the housing of the thermostat housing. It runs about 215 to 217 running 70 mph down the highway in 95/97 degree air temps. Jumps up to 222 after I get off the freeway and sitting at the light. Then is back down to 213 during the 3 miles of stop and go traffic to the house.

Before I added a variable resistor to the coolant temp sensor I would get a dash alarm for over heat and the external temp gauge would be around 225 or 230. That was a couple of years ago when it was 100/102 air temps.

The gauges lie!

But I do have to stress that you need your cooling system to be 100%

Of the ones you tried, which one did you feel worked the best? I can't and won't be able to spend $400 on a radiator. The system has been tested and retested along with the the gauge. The gauge and sensor are accurate. EVERyTHING has been replaced, even the engine. I have had 4 different shops look at it and none of them could find any discernible reason for the issue. Even had the engine NEW engine considered for head gasket but tests confirm that the head gasket is good. Timing is good as well. The CSF is leaking a bit now so a new one under warranty is on the way but this will be number 3. I want to try a different one and sell the replacement to recoup my money. Seeing how much of this thread is guys taking out the 3 row CSF for OE style replacements, that the direction I am trying to go. I installed an OE style CSF in my uncles 2000 Sport and its doing well but the core is only 1-1/4" thick and his Jeep is a bone stock daily driver. My 97 is lifted on 33s so the Performance Radiator 2188 being almost as thick as the Mopar Max Cooling radiator sounds like a good idea.

[OrangeXJ]

Mudderoy, after all this time has gone by, how are you feeling about your Performance Radiator 2188 radiator? I am having bad experience with CSF 3 Row Brass radiator. My Jeep runs 225-240 down here in Georgia and I have to run the heater to get the temps down to 215-220. I have done literally everything imaginable and taken it to 4 different shops and nobody can answer why its running hot. I have come to the conclusion that despite the reputation of the CSF 3 row and the fact that it is the second warranty replacement only a year old, that this radiator just isn't up to cooling the Jeep. I am desperate and want to make sure I make the right decision and I like the idea of the Performance Radiator 2188 being 1-7/16" thick not far off from the Mopar max cooling which is 1-5/8" thick. Everyone else that is stock style is 1" to 1-1/4"

225-240 is too hot. I live in Texas where it's just as hot here. This is my 2cents over the years I've seen people spend a lot of time and money trying to cool the 4.0 auto it seams to run 210 no matter what you do to it. I had a XJ with 32's and now I have TJ with 37's with all kinds of vents (hood and fender) and they both ran 210 at 100 or 35 degrees outside. If you find a way to get it cooler you could make some bucks.

[Ben824]

225-240 is too hot. I live in Texas where it's just as hot here. This is my 2cents over the years I've seen people spend a lot of time and money trying to cool the 4.0 auto it seams to run 210 no matter what you do to it. I had a XJ with 32's and now I have TJ with 37's with all kinds of vents (hood and fender) and they both ran 210 at 100 or 35 degrees outside. If you find a way to get it cooler you could make some bucks.

I am just trying to get it to run 210 again without having to take out a second mortgage for a radiator.

[Mudderoy]

Of the ones you tried, which one did you feel worked the best? I can't and won't be able to spend $400 on a radiator. The system has been tested and retested along with the the gauge. The gauge and sensor are accurate. EVERyTHING has been replaced, even the engine. I have had 4 different shops look at it and none of them could find any discernible reason for the issue. Even had the engine NEW engine considered for head gasket but tests confirm that the head gasket is good. Timing is good as well. The CSF is leaking a bit now so a new one under warranty is on the way but this will be number 3. I want to try a different one and sell the replacement to recoup my money. Seeing how much of this thread is guys taking out the 3 row CSF for OE style replacements, that the direction I am trying to go. I installed an OE style CSF in my uncles 2000 Sport and its doing well but the core is only 1-1/4" thick and his Jeep is a bone stock daily driver. My 97 is lifted on 33s so the Performance Radiator 2188 being almost as thick as the Mopar Max Cooling radiator sounds like a good idea.

The Mopar heavy duty, the one I have in there now is the best. I fought this problem a long time and it wasn't until I questioned the factory gauge that I found the answer.

[Mudderoy]

One thing I haven't tried yet, but I have read that someone else has done recently. Add in a small radiator, like a motorcycle radiator, and an electric fan attached to it. You plumb this into series with the heater core. Flip the switch to the electric fan when engine coolant temps get to high.

I asked the guy exactly where he mounted it. I think we've all done the turn the heater on and fan to high when our vehicle starts over heating, this is the same theory except this should cool better since it's not in that box.

The guy that did this said it resolved his running hot problems.