clutch questions...

[steph74]

So yesterday, i get in the jeep to go for a small ride.
Starts OK, idles OK, ..... impossible to shift in Reverse... or any other gear as a matter of fact.
So I was pissed but hey it is a jeep, it has its moments ;)
Later on the evening it was working fine.

So I am thinking the clutch is going away at the best.... hopefully it has nothing to do with the transmission...

for a couple of days, it was acting strange. the clutch pedal is very soft, almost feels like there is no reisstance and goes in all the way in. The shifting point is farther also.... almost feel like the cable is broken or something...

This is what I think, please as usual, direct me in the right direction lol.
-is there a possibility that the clutch fluid needs to be purged or something ?

[4.3LXJ]

It sounds like the master cylinder is wearing out. It is a common thing and not expensive or hard to replace. The problem is bleeding the slave cylinder afterwards. I can't remember if yours is internal or external. I have had bad luck with NAPA replacements. They end up not moving the slave enough to shift properly.

[steph74]

from reading a round I am afraid it is an internal one ;)...
Guess I am going to have a lot more reading to do lol...
maybe another write up on how to mess up your powertrain is going to come up lol

[LizardRunner]

yep that soft pedal description sounds like the master or slave are going. Yours (slave) is inside the bell housing (internal).

[Mudderoy]

I only have experience with one car (1973 Pontiac Ventura) clutch system, but why oh why do engineers have to take such an incredibly simple system and **** it up?!?!?

There was a flywheel, clutch disk, pressure plate, throw out bearing, bell housing and a damn manual transmission! The fork went into the throw out bearing and a nice long rod (and a pivot point) connected it to a petal under the dash. Soooo simple. Why does someone have to put hydrolics into it? It is really that hard to push a petal? OMG!

There is probably a simple answer here, so please feel free to share, cause I ain't getting it.

[LizardRunner]

the hydrolics were introduced because of the pedal pressure required to dissengage a racing clutch. A good stiff clutch plate set up is rather hard to push the throwout bearing fork and can even break a leg bone if your using a competetion clutch set up (have seen that happen on the track). So the mfg's began using a hydrolic system so that those with out really good leg strength could use a manual tranny. Just an example of racing tech making it to the "normal" world.

[Mudderoy]

the hydrolics were introduced because of the pedal pressure required to dissengage a racing clutch. A good stiff clutch plate set up is rather hard to push the throwout bearing fork and can even break a leg bone if your using a competetion clutch set up (have seen that happen on the track). So the mfg's began using a hydrolic system so that those with out really good leg strength could use a manual tranny. Just an example of racing tech making it to the "normal" world.

ooo racing clutch would have been nice, unnecessary for my little 327, but would have been nice. :rolleye0012:

[OrangeXJ]

Check the fluid in the resevoir. My sons was doing the same thing it was just low on fluid.

[steph74]

:bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang:
:ashamed0005::ashamed0005::ashamed0005::ashamed000 5::ashamed0005:

OK I don;t know if this is it the solution... but yeah I am pretty ashamed that I didn;t even look at the reservoir before I posted... It is obviously empty... I mean not low... empty
I will stop by the store tonight and get some fluid.... any recommendation or are they all the same ?

Now the problem is why is it empty ? leak ? I don;t see anything leaking other than oil and TC fluid a little.. I know it was full not so long ago because I checked all the fluids recently...

I guess I need to look more in detail but could it be the "internal" slave cylinder leaking inside the transmission ?
In whish case it is bad I am assuming ?

[Mudderoy]

:bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang:
:ashamed0005::ashamed0005::ashamed0005::ashamed000 5::ashamed0005:

OK I don;t know if this is it the solution... but yeah I am pretty ashamed that I didn;t even look at the reservoir before I posted... It is obviously empty... I mean not low... empty
I will stop by the store tonight and get some fluid.... any recommendation or are they all the same ?

Now the problem is why is it empty ? leak ? I don;t see anything leaking other than oil and TC fluid a little.. I know it was full not so long ago because I checked all the fluids recently...

I guess I need to look more in detail but could it be the "internal" slave cylinder leaking inside the transmission ?
In whish case it is bad I am assuming ?

hey I would look at it as a great outcome! Simple to fix, but you're right why is it empty. The mystery deepens....

[4.3LXJ]

Steph, there are two reasons why it could be down on fluid. One is the slave is leaking or that as the clutch wears, it takes a little more fluid to fill the slave. I would be looking around the bell housing area for any drips.

[steph74]

I actually noticed drips at the junction between the bellhousing and the tranny.... thought it was oil though ... maybe I will look at it closely then ;)
What would that be a symptom of you think ?

I would really love to not having to replace the whole system now lol I am saving money for something else lol

[4.3LXJ]

Steph, put some fluid on your finger. Oil, is slick. The brake fluid will not be, or if it is mixed with oil, not as slick as it should be.

[steph74]

you say brake fluid, did you mean clutch fluid or is it the same thing ?

[4.3LXJ]

Same thing. The clutch uses brake fluid also.

[steph74]

OK so I refilled the reservoir yesterday.... worked awesome... I don't even think it was shifting that smoothly in a long time... good resistance in the clutch pedal, and gears were just going like a charm....

This morning... impossible to shift again ;) and reservoir empty....
I am going to look at it later .... arghhhh lol

I see a transmission drop and slave cylinder change in my future very soon...

[Mudderoy]

OK so I refilled the reservoir yesterday.... worked awesome... I don't even think it was shifting that smoothly in a long time... good resistance in the clutch pedal, and gears were just going like a charm....

This morning... impossible to shift again ;) and reservoir empty....
I am going to look at it later .... arghhhh lol

I see a transmission drop and slave cylinder change in my future very soon...

Wow that was quick.

[LizardRunner]

any puddles under the jeep? leaking down that fast it has to have gone somewhere. if it isn't on the outside, then your right, it's the slave cylinder.

[steph74]

yes no puddle under, nothing looks like it is dripping.... that is why I thought slave cylinder. Now I will take pics tonight but I see 1 line coming into the bellhousing and another one out with what looks like a bleeder... these looks oily and rusty... and the whole thing moves inside....

[Mudderoy]

yes no puddle under, nothing looks like it is dripping.... that is why I thought slave cylinder. Now I will take pics tonight but I see 1 line coming into the bellhousing and another one out with what looks like a bleeder... these looks oily and rusty... and the whole thing moves inside....

I've never seen under a Jeep with a standard trans. I'm guessing it's mostly like what I've worked on. Drive shaft(s), cross member, and unbolt trans from the bell housing.

[steph74]

yes the FSM and books are pretty straightforward... just need to figure out time and money to do it right the first...

I discovered that my neighbors down the streeet is a mechanic and is doing some work at home since his day job is different (more money and insurrance ;))

So he told me that if I need tools I can borrow them... I knew that hanging out with that Mexican bunch this week end would bring me some good Karma lol

[Mudderoy]

yes the FSM and books are pretty straightforward... just need to figure out time and money to do it right the first...

I discovered that my neighbors down the streeet is a mechanic and is doing some work at home since his day job is different (more money and insurrance ;))

So he told me that if I need tools I can borrow them... I knew that hanging out with that Mexican bunch this week end would bring me some good Karma lol

And if you play your cards right some good food! :D

[LizardRunner]

Don't know if you've read this already but here it is just incase you haven't
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f11/internal-slave-cylinder-replacement-582240/

[steph74]

so now I know what that lose part that was in the back of the jeep when I bought it was.... it is a slave cylinder I think ;) actually looks like it but doesn;t look like the same part # lol

[steph74]

I have seen numerous thread but not this one... thank you ;)