The Rebuild

[Punisher]

Ok guys... this is it
I'm so confussed on why its not starting so I've decided to do a completed
rebuild of the motor and electical system...
I'll be taking photos along the way from pulling it out the old and installing the new...
Hopefully I or we can see what cause the problem in the first place...
So let the fun begin..

Here are the first few photos I've gotten so far...

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1339.jpg


http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1331.jpgThis Looks nasty... no wonder I heat up a little

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1337.jpg

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1335.jpg

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1336.jpg

:confused:

[alwaysxj]

wow.... good luck.

[4.3LXJ]

Is there a secret formula for that stuff on the tstat? I've never seen that before. You might be on to something here rebuilding it. You gonna stroke it?

[Punisher]

I'd like to stroke it but moneys tight, so what I'm going to do is just buy a crate motor and get all new a/c stuff so I finally have a/c since it never worked.. But I'm still going to keep my old motor from before and give them the one that in it now for core and the old 1991 I have I'm going to slowly build a stroker with it...

[cantab27]

yeah good luck mate ,, will be watching with interest

[Punisher]

Here are a few more photos..
Here we are looking at wires that goes to the O2 sensor on the header
And these wire looks cooked..
Time to replace them don't ya think? :confused: lol

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1341.jpg

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1340.jpg

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1342.jpg

[4.3LXJ]

Might be about due

[Punisher]

Well Now that I got most of the stuff off the motor I discovered that the motor is not a 1998 like the junkyard told me.... In fact its alot better news than I thought its a 1994 and my old motor is a 1991 but they used the same block with casting # 53008405 from the years '91-'95.... Thats great news for me cause I might just do a re-ring kit and a head job on this and throw it back in along with some new parts...
I was going to rebuild my 1991 cause I thought the other was a 1998 but the 1991 has alot of machine work to do as the rods and crank spun a bearing so that would cost me some money but doing a re-ring kit on this 1994 would be cheaper as I'm trying to wacth my buget....:thumbsup:

Here are a few more photos as it progress....

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1344.jpg

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1347.jpg

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1348.jpg

[Punisher]

Today I got alot done on the tear down... I've also took the block out back and sprayed it down with degreaser and pressure cleaned it and man does it look nice... I even went to the auto store to order the re-ring kit and picked up and few cans of fire red paint... (figured I'd paint it up while waiting for the parts to come in)
I'm going to take the head down to the machine shop tomorrow to have that head's cleaned and get the valves done on them...
Here's some more photos as I'm going along..:thumbsup:



Got all the wire pulled up so I can go through them and replace any bad wires

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1371.jpg



Got a little slack on the timing chain but it didn't jump timing as I lined up the dots on the gears.


http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1366.jpg
http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1365.jpg


Got all the parts all laid out, Everything looks in good shape...
http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1378-1.jpg
http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1382.jpg


After I got it all cleaned up I taped off the block for paint....

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1369-1.jpg

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1376.jpg

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1384.jpg

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1385.jpg

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1380.jpg

So far everything is looking good...:thumbsup:

[4.3LXJ]

Dude, are you rebuilding that engine in the house?

[Punisher]

Dude, are you rebuilding that engine in the house?

LOL.... no thats the garage, I did the painting in my shed and then brought it in my garage to put it together when I get the parts in...

[Mudderoy]

LOL.... no thats the garage, I did the painting in my shed and then brought it in my garage to put it together when I get the parts in...

Nice floor I see you took precautions with it like the paper under the engine stand.

[Punisher]

Nice floor I see you took precautions with it like the paper under the engine stand.

Yeah after doing all that work on the floor I didn't want to mark it up...
as you can tell I dont drive the jeep in, It sits outside... Its floirda :thumbsup:

[Punisher]

Well guys.... I found the problem why the Jeep did not start... It's not the ECM like the mechanic thought... It's the flywheel that the crankshaft position sensor reads off of.... I was doing some photos and I noticed a crack in the center of the flywheel so I tapped it with a rubber mallot and boom it popped out! SOOOOO theres the problem... now that I found the problem I cant wait to get this nice colorful motor in to drive LOL.....:driving:

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/IMG_0673.jpg

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/IMG_0675.jpg

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/IMG_0676.jpg

[Mudderoy]

I was just doing some reading on this. Seems to be a fairly common problem.

The part is Chrysler/Jeep part is 52118257, and it's around $92. A dealership will replace it for you, only $800.

Symptoms include;

1) Bottom engine knock
2) Flashing CHECK ENGINE light (misfire codes)
3) Loss of power or engine missing at higher RPMS

All of this because the CPS isn't able to read the position of the flywheel.

[Punisher]

I was just doing some reading on this. Seems to be a fairly common problem.

The part is Chrysler/Jeep part is 52118257, and it's around $92. A dealership will replace it for you, only $800.

Symptoms include;

1) Bottom engine knock
2) Flashing CHECK ENGINE light (misfire codes)
3) Loss of power or engine missing at higher RPMS

All of this because the CPS isn't able to read the position of the flywheel.

Ya know its funny that I didn't have any of those problems with the check engine light or loss power but I didn't notice the knock b4 it shut down on me... Now I need to see what I need to do cause I had a 1991 motor in it and when I got the 1994 thinking it was a 1998 I think the mechanic put a 1991 flywheel in it and when it broke the first time it was the 1991 cause the 1994 flywheel that came with didnt' match the bolt pattern on the torqe converter and you figure it should be the same as they made that block model from 91-95.. So I'm just going to guess I'll just have to put the 1991 flywheel back on and hope for the best... anybody have any ideas?

[Punisher]

Mudderoy where did you find that part at online?

[Mudderoy]

Mudderoy where did you find that part at online?

I just did a Google search on that part number. Of course I don't know what year it is for. I didn't know they were different.

[Punisher]

I just did a Google search on that part number. Of course I don't know what year it is for. I didn't know they were different.

yeah they must be cause when I got the motor from the junkyard the flywheel on it didnt bolt to the converter it was like a 1/4 " off so I put the one off my old 1991 motor on it then I drove it for about 4 months then it started having loss of power like you mention and I had it taken to the shop and the mechanic tried to tell me that I didnt tighten the bolt tight enough on the tranny bell housing and it broke like this one did but after 2 years this one did the same and the bolt to the tranny was tight, I know cause I unbolted it so that cant be the problem its got to but a reason for it to happen again.... I found this site and they have one for around 80 bucks and its here in Florida by Miami...

http://www.jeep4x4center.com/images/52117761.jpg

http://www.jeep4x4center.com/product-information.asp?number=52117761

[Mudderoy]

yeah they must be cause when I got the motor from the junkyard the flywheel on it didnt bolt to the converter it was like a 1/4 " off so I put the one off my old 1991 motor on it then I drove it for about 4 months then it started having loss of power like you mention and I had it taken to the shop and the mechanic tried to tell me that I didnt tighten the bolt tight enough on the tranny bell housing and it broke like this one did but after 2 years this one did the same and the bolt to the tranny was tight, I know cause I unbolted it so that cant be the problem its got to but a reason for it to happen again.... I found this site and they have one for around 80 bucks and its here in Florida by Miami...

http://www.jeep4x4center.com/product-information.asp?number=52117761

I wonder if welding a ring to the center would help. Maybe it would just crack around the outside of that ring. Seems that the metal needs to be thicker to me. If people raced Cherokee's there would be a beefy aftermarket version.

[Mudderoy]

I did some digging for a heavy duty flywheel. Found nothing, except it's called a flexplate. I did read something about a load spreader "ring" for mustangs.

[Punisher]

Where is the best place to put the temp sensor for a temp gauge? I was think in this spot...

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/IMG_067911.jpg

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/IMG_068011.jpg
and if so how would I get this plug out? on my old block I had a hard time getting it off and messed up the little square thing... whats the best way to get it off without damaging it?

[Mudderoy]

Drill it out?

[Punisher]

I was thinking that but I dont want to mess up the threads...

[4.3LXJ]

If you need to get the plug out, try the proper sized square drive. They used to make a tool back in the 60s that looked like a mace with squares poking out of it. If you have to drill it out, there is plenty of meat there to tap a larger size pipe thread.

[Punisher]

If you need to get the plug out, try the proper sized square drive. They used to make a tool back in the 60s that looked like a mace with squares poking out of it. If you have to drill it out, there is plenty of meat there to tap a larger size pipe thread.

yeah I'm thinking of finding sum strung metal and grind it down to fit the square piece and try to unscrew it that way but worst comes to worst I'll drill it out, I just like to try to use the stock thread as the sensor would fit nice...

[ice_cold]

A set of these comes in handy for this ....
http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/TOOL/POR_TOOL_CAT050_pg9.htm

[Punisher]

Well here's a few more photos as I'm doing some more cleaning and painting its coming out really nice....

This is the before as I just got done pressure washing:
http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1388.jpg

And after:
http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1394.jpg

These are some of the parts I got painted:
http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1408.jpg

And this is not good... Looks like Iron man is going to be getting an order from me for new motor mounts: :thumbsup:
http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1404.jpg

[XJ4IV]

Where is the best place to put the temp sensor for a temp gauge? I was think in this spot...

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/IMG_067911.jpg

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/IMG_068011.jpg
and if so how would I get this plug out? on my old block I had a hard time getting it off and messed up the little square thing... whats the best way to get it off without damaging it?

just like your diff drain plug.... put your 3/8 ratchet on it... no socket needed

[oderdene]

These are some of the parts I got painted:
http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1408.jpg

Are there any washer spacer behind upper idler pulley? I've replaced bearing, there was nothing behind and mounting surface worn (skewed?), threads also worn :headshake:. maybe new bracket or drill through?

[4.3LXJ]

Where is the best place to put the temp sensor for a temp gauge? I was think in this spot...

I would suggest using a spot on the head instead. The coolant enters the block and circulates up from there. That means the block temp will be cooler than the head temp. By the time the coolant makes its way up to the head it is starting to get warmer. The best place to put a temp sending unit is next to the thermostat housing if possible. That way you get a true reading of the coolant temp as it leaves the engine. You can always drill and tap a place if you need to. I tapped two on mine for sensors there.

[Punisher]

just like your diff drain plug.... put your 3/8 ratchet on it... no socket needed

Tried it, wont fit

[Punisher]

No there's no washers, just on the bolt and the inner sleeve that comes with the pully... here are photos on how its put on....

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1415.jpg

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1419.jpg

[Punisher]

I would suggest using a spot on the head instead. The coolant enters the block and circulates up from there. That means the block temp will be cooler than the head temp. By the time the coolant makes its way up to the head it is starting to get warmer. The best place to put a temp sending unit is next to the thermostat housing if possible. That way you get a true reading of the coolant temp as it leaves the engine. You can always drill and tap a place if you need to. I tapped two on mine for sensors there.

I agree with you, But I think the best way to tell if your over heating is to have one in the block with a mechanical temp gauge cause if your thermostat freeze close then the sensor on your water neck wont get a good reading, So the one in your block will go up and you can see that theres a problem somewhere cause the water wont be able to flow.... When I was racing back in the days I was told to put your temp sensor as far back of the block as posible as thats the hottest part of the motor cause the water enters in the front of the block and flows through and exit out the top where the water neck is, So you want to get the reading from between the cyclinders.. We all know the water is hot when it come out the neck, So yeah I agree with you but it doesnt hurt to have the stock one on the neck but just add another one for the block... Just to be safe :thumbsup:

[Punisher]

Well I got the crankshaft on order as I figured if I had the old one cleaned up it would cost me 150.00 so I got a rebuilt one for 80.00 and it's all ground down and clean (better deal).
So I need help here to find a New cam and lifter kit for a good price.... any ideas? I've search and can't seem to find what I like...
The motor is a 1994 block... and I'm looking for just a stock cam and lifters
Let me know what we can come up with...:patriot:

[Punisher]

YAY!!! I got my new crankshaft!!! can't wait for the others to come...

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/IMG_0708.jpg

[4.3LXJ]

You know what would be really cool since you have it this far apart? Balance that stuff. The 4.0 is balanced with different weight pistons. Highly inaccurate. It will run smoother, last longer and get about 1 mpg better. Nets a few hp too. Well worth the cost.

[Punisher]

You know what would be really cool since you have it this far apart? Balance that stuff. The 4.0 is balanced with different weight pistons. Highly inaccurate. It will run smoother, last longer and get about 1 mpg better. Nets a few hp too. Well worth the cost.

Ya know, I was just thinking about that too.... But I'm trying to figured out how to do it myself but i don't have the tools and I'm trying to keep this on a budget... any ideas?

[4.3LXJ]

Ya know, I was just thinking about that too.... But I'm trying to figured out how to do it myself but i don't have the tools and I'm trying to keep this on a budget... any ideas?

The pistons and rods can be balanced with a good balance beam scale that will go to 1/10 gram. But the crank and dampener need to be spun in a machine set up for it. You just have to pay for that.

[may pop]

Please be sure to not skimp and leave the original cam bearings in place. They are a VERY large part of good oil pressure. An automotive machine shop will install them properly for around 50 bucks labor or buy a bearing installer your self. This will be cheap insurance to protect that new crank and bearings.
Ron

[Punisher]

Please be sure to not skimp and leave the original cam bearings in place. They are a VERY large part of good oil pressure. An automotive machine shop will install them properly for around 50 bucks labor or buy a bearing installer your self. This will be cheap insurance to protect that new crank and bearings.
Ron

I'm having the machine shop install the cam bearings as I'm putting in a new cam...

[Punisher]

Ok guys, I just did a little cleaning up on the rocker arms and notice that some of the bridge adp. are bent 5 and 6 are in good shape but for the others it's ??? should I try to bend em back to shape or what... ?
http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1424copy.jpg
this is one of the bent ones
http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1427.jpg
And this is one of the good ones
http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1431.jpg

[4.3LXJ]

As long as they fit well and nothing is obstructed, don't worry about that.

[Punisher]

Now that I got all my parts... Going to put it together tomorrow morning....finally! here are some photos

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/IMG_0734.jpg

And also my pillar pod came in too...

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/IMG_0737.jpg

[bluedragon436]

Looking good!!! I can't wait to build myself an engine for my Jeep... will def. take me a bit, as money is low and I am still learning... but I will manage to do as much of the build as I can...

[Punisher]

Looking good!!! I can't wait to build myself an engine for my Jeep... will def. take me a bit, as money is low and I am still learning... but I will manage to do as much of the build as I can...

Well when you do get ready for a rebuild I found a site thats really good on prices... enginetech.com
but the thing is you have to call them and get some number of machine shop to order the stuff they wont sell it to the public but you still get it for the same price from the machine shop...
Like the cam kit I called all over the place for cam and lifters and I could not find it for less than 170.00 for the kit but from the engine tech i got it for 120.00 brand new...

[bluedragon436]

I will have to check that site out... if nothing else it is never too early to start collecting parts up... LOL... now I just got to find a machine shop in my area... that is worth a crap anyways... actually I guess if I am only purchasing the parts through them it won't matter how their work is... Do they have everything or just the head parts for the 4.2/4.0 engines?? Their site doesn't seem to useful as far as finding out what they actually have for the I6 engines... seems like they would at least want to make that part a bit easier for the customers...

[Punisher]

I will have to check that site out... if nothing else it is never too early to start collecting parts up... LOL... now I just got to find a machine shop in my area... that is worth a crap anyways... actually I guess if I am only purchasing the parts through them it won't matter how their work is... Do they have everything or just the head parts for the 4.2/4.0 engines?? Their site doesn't seem to useful as far as finding out what they actually have for the I6 engines... seems like they would at least want to make that part a bit easier for the customers...

Here try this machine shop in CA. they will sell you the stuff at the enginetech cost...

http://www.perfectengine.com/

[Punisher]

Well got to getting it together today and it went very well... So I ordered the flywheel and motor mount from andy today so I'm hoping to have it by Thursday so I can get this thing in the Jeep... here are some photos...

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1436.jpg

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1438.jpg

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1450.jpg

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1451.jpg

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1452.jpg

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1453.jpg

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1454.jpg

:camera:

[4.3LXJ]

It's always lots of fun building engines, especially in a clean room.

[rugidone]

Thats beautiful. Once its in, keep it looking like that!

[Mudderoy]

This is like porn but for engine building. Makes you want to go build one too! It's a lot of fun getting all the parts together, putting it together, and then having it run!

Did you plastigauge the bearings?

[bluedragon436]

Yeah I am just hoping mine does turn out good.. I have spent many times working on and rebuilding Honda engines... so I know how to do it... just a different engine design I will have to learn... once I do it though... it will be very rewarding to enjoy the fuits of my labors...

[Punisher]

Thats beautiful. Once its in, keep it looking like that!

I'm gonna try...:thumbsup:

[Punisher]

This is like porn but for engine building. Makes you want to go build one too! It's a lot of fun getting all the parts together, putting it together, and then having it run!

Did you plastigauge the bearings?

yes I did plastigauge the mains and rods... all in spec but the number 2 rod im a little worried about as the plastigauge showin .003 so I tighted up 5 ft-lb more and still showing .003, all the other is right in spec from .002-.0015
but I have to say I got this assembly lube from napa auto parts and its some really think goo and after getting everything button up the motor is tight as hell I cant even turn by hand... I'm just thinking cause its all new bearing..

[Punisher]

Just got the flywheel in today and got it on, Now waiting for the motor mounts from Andy....:popcorn:
http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1457.jpg

[Mudderoy]

yes I did plastigauge the mains and rods... all in spec but the number 2 rod im a little worried about as the plastigauge showin .003 so I tighted up 5 ft-lb more and still showing .003, all the other is right in spec from .002-.0015
but I have to say I got this assembly lube from napa auto parts and its some really think goo and after getting everything button up the motor is tight as hell I cant even turn by hand... I'm just thinking cause its all new bearing..

So to resolve it, are you going to get a different size bearing? Replace the rod? Drive it and see what happens?

[Punisher]

this is the main I was plastigauging and its at spec but if you look closely on the gauge it shows a .003 thats where number 2 rod is at... I'm thinking it may be ok...

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1442.jpg

[Punisher]

Finally got my mounts from Ironman fab 4x4... And they are NICE!!! very strong looking!!! I'll be installing them tomorrow morning and hope to have the motor in before I leave for work... here are some photos of the mounts.

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1458.jpg

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1460.jpg

I'm going to have to do a little grinding on the rubber so that the mounts from the engine will fit...

[Punisher]

Go the Motor in this morning.. Did a little grinding on the mount rubber but just on the driver side is all I had to do but it wroked out great... Here are some photos, I'll have closer photos of the mounts later tonight...

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1466.jpg

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1465.jpg

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1464.jpg

[Mudderoy]

Finally got my mounts from Ironman fab 4x4... And they are NICE!!! very strong looking!!! I'll be installing them tomorrow morning and hope to have the motor in before I leave for work... here are some photos of the mounts.

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1458.jpg

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1460.jpg

I'm going to have to do a little grinding on the rubber so that the mounts from the engine will fit...

I think those are better pictures that Andy took of his own parts! :smiley-laughing021:

If I haven't already said (I type a bunch of stuff) I really appreciate you taking the time to post all this build with pictures. Very interesting and fun, even if it does make we want to build one myself.

[rguignard]

Go the Motor in this morning.. Did a little grinding on the mount rubber but just on the driver side is all I had to do but it wroked out great... Here are some photos, I'll have closer photos of the mounts later tonight...

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1466.jpg

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1465.jpg

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/DSCF1464.jpg

man looks way to clean :smiley-laughing021: j/k looks great i wish mine looked that nice btw love that v/c

[4.3LXJ]

You are not gonna want ot get that dirty

[Mudderoy]

Boy that's pretty!

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/9831/imagebf214b8616c0.gif

:shocker:

[bluedragon436]

Yeah you don't want to get it dirty... I'll fly out and take care of getting it dirty for you!! That way you won't have too!!! LOL.. Looking awesome, and I can def. say it is making me want to do a rebuild more and more every time... one day it will happen...

[cantab27]

nice work mate ,,,,

[Punisher]

I think those are better pictures that Andy took of his own parts! :smiley-laughing021:

If I haven't already said (I type a bunch of stuff) I really appreciate you taking the time to post all this build with pictures. Very interesting and fun, even if it does make we want to build one myself.

lol.. thanks... I do alot of photography myself and I love taking close up photos. :camera:

[Punisher]

man looks way to clean :smiley-laughing021: j/k looks great i wish mine looked that nice btw love that v/c

Thanks... I was tryin to figure out what color to do the v/c so I thought painting the stripes on it by hand to match the engine was the best way to go...

[Punisher]

You are not gonna want ot get that dirty

I know!!! lol....
I just have a thing about nice clean motor as I use to do show car in the pass but with this hmmmmm it just might have to get a little mud on it, But I made sure I did several coats of paint so that way I could do a good cleaning after playing :smiley-gen165:

[Punisher]

Boy that's pretty!

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/9831/imagebf214b8616c0.gif

:shocker:

LOL...............
I was thinking that myself this morning after I got it in :smiley-laughing021:

[Punisher]

Yeah you don't want to get it dirty... I'll fly out and take care of getting it dirty for you!! That way you won't have too!!! LOL.. Looking awesome, and I can def. say it is making me want to do a rebuild more and more every time... one day it will happen...

LOL... Thanks... I'll def. will have some photos once I get a little mud on it..

[Punisher]

80% done... have a few things to button up like the radiator, flywheel needs tighted at the torqe convertor, starter, oil and so for... heres a few more photos looking like a motor again....:thumbsup:

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/IMG_0740.jpg

Oh and I've also install my triple pillar pod for now til I get more gauges...

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/IMG_0738.jpg

I bought some of the led lights so what I'm going to do is drill a hold for these to fit next to the gauge for warning light so when they come on I know sumin wrong to look at the gauge... I will be posting photos of that work later but here are the lights....

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/IMG_0745-1.jpg
http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/IMG_0747.jpg

[XJ4IV]

I like the LED setups you have going in... Im curious how you wired those up for 12v I would like to throw a few thousand in my jeep all over the place...

[Punisher]

I like the LED setups you have going in... Im curious how you wired those up for 12v I would like to throw a few thousand in my jeep all over the place...

They are 12 volt leds.. I had it hook onto a 12 volt power pack to show on the photo...

So how I'm going to do it is put the black to a ground and wire up the red to the sensor on the motor for water and oil so when they over heat or lose pressure its like kicking on the idiot lights in my dash but instead of that my leds will go on...:thumbsup:

[XJ4IV]

awesome... but how will you know at what RANGE your light will go on for instance the certain temp or certain pressure.

[4.3LXJ]

They are 12 volt leds.. I had it hook onto a 12 volt power pack to show on the photo...

So how I'm going to do it is put the black to a ground and wire up the red to the sensor on the motor for water and oil so when they over heat or lose pressure its like kicking on the idiot lights in my dash but instead of that my leds will go on...:thumbsup:

What did you have to give for those?

[Punisher]

awesome... but how will you know at what RANGE your light will go on for instance the certain temp or certain pressure.

I'm going to order switch sensors like for the water it'll be a 210 switch so when it reach 210 it'll triger the led and for the oil if it goes under 10 or 8lb it'll do the same... summit racing has the switch sensor...

[Punisher]

What did you have to give for those?

what do I have to give? you mean how much it cost? the leds cost me 5 bucks with shipping included and I got (20) 10mm leds..

[gary63]

remember to run BRAKE-IN OIL like roul purple or so. That way your cam will brake-in and not were down to fast that has been hapining lately.
But it look great hope it runs as good as it looks it will be a very nice rig.

[Punisher]

remember to run BRAKE-IN OIL like roul purple or so. That way your cam will brake-in and not were down to fast that has been hapining lately.
But it look great hope it runs as good as it looks it will be a very nice rig.

thanks... I'm going to prime the oil pump with a drill down the distributor hole b4 I start the motor so I have oil through the ports of the motor... but I did use real thick assembly lube as I installed the bearing so everything should be good :thumbsup:

[bluedragon436]

Get that thing dirty already.... sheesh... LOL... Looking good, at least you are doing it right the first time around, so you will be able to enjoy it that much longer..

[gary63]

that is good you R going to prime frist but what I ment is the oil and gas
is filtered now days they are missing some stuff that helps the cam brake in
right . your machinshop or auto parts should know what it is I do know ruole
pupel dos has it .you use it for so many miles and then use what ever you want then after.

[gary63]

here is the site that will tell about brake-in oil it is just one there are others
my machingshop told me about it. they even give the oil with rebiuld.
http://www.royalpurple.com/breakin-oil.html

[kevinz]

Looking good so far!

[Punisher]

Well guys... Some bad news...
Its would not start as its to tight for the starter...
I pull out the motor to see WTF going on as I said I plastigauge all the bearing and it all came out great... so I figured I'd take it apart to see why its hard for me to turn it by hand...
well this is what I came up with...
I start putting it back together from piston #1 and work my way to #6
I put #1 in the plastigauge it and it's ok and able to turn it by hand then did this for 2,3,4 and its all good.. then I put #5 in and the Plastigauge shows that it's to tight at 33 ft-lb as spec and I could not turn the motor so I pulled #5 out and put #6 in so I had all piston but #5 in and I was able to turn it by hand but as soon I put #5 back in and torqe it then I could not turn the motor so I losen it a bit and I was able to turn the motor so I figure let me torqe it to 18 ft-lb... THAT was still to tight and I know I cant have it at 18ft-lb but even at that I cant turn the motor so WTF? What the hell am I suppost to do now?
Just so you all know what I have:
new ground down crank with .010 mains and .010 rods
also using 10-10 bearing

Could this mean that the one rod journal may have not been ground right? or could I have a bad bearing? It's driving me so F'in crazy that I just want my F'in Jeep BACK ON THE ROAD!!!! :mad0090:

[ice_cold]

Have you tried slipping one of the other bearings into that spot. It could be the end cap on the rod is not sized right, or even not round.

[4.3LXJ]

Is it possible that the piston itself is tight and not the rod bearing?

[Jeepster19]

I would check the crank with a micrometer on that journal and compare it to the rest. That is just nuts that that one journal would be sized wrong on the crankshaft. Did they re-size the rods? Maybe give you the wrong rod shells? Very interesting, let us know what you find out.

[Punisher]

Is it possible that the piston itself is tight and not the rod bearing?

Nah. the pistons moves freely...

[Mudderoy]

Nah. the pistons moves freely...

This is the kind of crap that would happen to me.

[Punisher]

Have you tried slipping one of the other bearings into that spot. It could be the end cap on the rod is not sized right, or even not round.

Well you gave me this idea and I put the #6 piston and rod in #5 hole and its works!... so I had a old rod and piston from my old motor and picked out the best one and installed it and move the #6 back in its hole and now all works great... so which this mean is that the #5 rod is either out of round or something... so now I'm going to have to get a machine shop and have the rod put on the piston.... Thanks for all the help and tip guys!!!!! so Let move on with this rebuild and see how it runs!!! thanks again all :thumbsup:

[Punisher]

Here's a short video on the motor trying to start...
I've checked everything as in timing, fuel, spark, and ect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbBmyFojGfs

[JENSSEN]

Sounds like it is turning waaay to slow to be honest,.. Now pop that valve cover back on before some poop gets in there

[rguignard]

Sounds like it is turning waaay to slow to be honest,.. Now pop that valve cover back on before some poop gets in there

x2 mine turns over way faster

[JENSSEN]

Not enough juice won't allow the ecm to function, engine to fire,.. boost that baby up or look at your starter

[ice_cold]

Boost time, thats just not spinning fast enough. If turning that slow, the starter is pulling most of the juice...ECM is not getting enough to think

[Punisher]

Heres another veiw... I know it doesn't spin fast but thats how it spin as long as I've owned the jeep...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b27N6p3BxLw

[Mudderoy]

When you say you are getting spark how did you check that? Just one plug or all of them?

Start comparison...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pr2UzpS71HA

[JENSSEN]

Just have to start eliminating one thing at a time until that baby fires! Text me when you get digging into it today.

[Punisher]

Does anyone have a whole harness for a 1991 XJ 4.0... I need the whole thing from firewall to the whole motor.. I've checked all the junkyards here but nothing in that year, but most of them are chopped up...
If anyone finds any in their states let me know the price.. thanks

[ice_cold]

So you checked for spark, fuel and timing.
You did hook the big ground strap back to the engine, right.
Your not getting anything, even after spraying it, just a slight stumble. Not what one normally gets when the engine fires.
Since you have the valve cover off, verify that when you get a timing flash that the cylinder is in the position. Like if #1 is showing by the light its firing, are the valves in that position. At the tail pipe are you getting any air pulses, whats it smell like? No smell but fuel is flowing, wheres it going?
Just my 2 cents.

Mike

[Punisher]

Well whats happening is that I took off the plug wire off the coil and lay a screwdriver next to it and cranked the motor and I was getting spark......spark.......spark......etc. then I went and loosen up the CPS and let it hang a bit and tried to start it and I was getting spark.spark.spark like it's suppost to so I figured maybe I'll sim it a bit to get the CPS move to the middle of the flywheel thingy and tighten it down and I'm back to square one with the sparks... So I don't know WTF it is...
I ran out of light so I'm going to jump on it again tomorrow morning and try sumin else... But for now If any of you guys or gals could call around to your local junkyard and see if they have a 1990 or 1991 jeep XJ with a complete motor harness with the clips on them ( nothing cut ) and see how much they want for it and let me know, All the junkyard here dont have any... thanks

[4.3LXJ]

Dude, if that is real time, you are only making 120 rpms. That is not enough for a renix to start. You need 300

[Mudderoy]

Dude, if that is real time, you are only making 120 rpms. That is not enough for a renix to start. You need 300

I wonder if the starter needs a shim... Also he said that's as fast as it has always turned.

You know that would be pretty funny if the whole reason he was having this no start problem (before the rebuild and now) was because the starter wasn't turned the engine fast enough.

[4.3LXJ]

One of the reasons I always stuck with standard trannys is that when you got them primed, you could drag them behind something to start the first time. Once they do, then they loosen up and start normally.

[Punisher]

cant sim the starter on jeep.. well as least not on mine, I've asked and they said "No, its a bolt on and go" the starter is new an I tok the battery down and have it load tested and its all fine... I'm having spark issues is the problem, And before all the rebuild it was the flywheel that cracked and lost spark and got it back then lost it again but now that everything is new I'm getting good sparks but only on a couple plugs so now I think I'm having a wire issue so thats why I just want to change out the whole harness.

[pvt.tadpolxj]

Hey Punisher. sorry to hear about your hard starting... Are you sure yourNSS> is working good. I know everybody say's they control starting in park or nuetral. But if you think about they have a lot to do with starting..:cool:

[XJ4IV]

Hey Punisher. sorry to hear about your hard starting... Are you sure yourNSS> is working good. I know everybody say's they control starting in park or nuetral. But if you think about they have a lot to do with starting..:cool:

If it was the NSS it wouldnt even crank... mine is bad so I bypassed it now I can crank mine in any gear without the key... makes me think MIGHT be somewhere in your ignition setup

[gary63]

have you checked the coil it may be starting to go out.also check your compresion you may have a leak like all the ring gaps lined up and giving you
very low compresion. but check you coil my jeep was acting almost the same
I changed the coil and now it runs good good luck.

[ice_cold]

So you tightened down the CPS and you lost spark, but loosen it and you have spark?
With spark and fuel, you should get a stumble on turning it over. You sure you have fuel?

Rather than replace the harness, pull out the wiring diagram, and trace the wires that are involved in the running of the engine. There are not to many that are actually involved. If you dont have the diagram, I will see what I can find.

Mike

[Mudderoy]

So you tightened down the CPS and you lost spark, but loosen it and you have spark?
With spark and fuel, you should get a stumble on turning it over. You sure you have fuel?

Rather than replace the harness, pull out the wiring diagram, and trace the wires that are involved in the running of the engine. There are not to many that are actually involved. If you dont have the diagram, I will see what I can find.

Mike

I bet it's the movement of the wires going to the CPS that are changing the spark, not the distance between the CPS and the indicator on the flywheel.

[ice_cold]

I bet it's the movement of the wires going to the CPS that are changing the spark, not the distance between the CPS and the indicator on the flywheel.

Thinking that there may be a crack that as you tighten it, it either grounds out or looses contact.

[gary63]

if you think it is a wire try and wigle them I had somwething like that with my dodge in cold weather it would be hard to start if it would start at all.When
I found the wire it was a small brake when the copper wire got cold it would
have a small brake when it warmed up the brake would be gone.copper shrinks when it gets cold and expans when it gets hot that is why you should always have some slak in your wires.

[pvt.tadpolxj]

Yes it would because mine start's this way

[Punisher]

Wel I replaced the o2 sensor and still nothing but now I'm getting code..
12---- Battery dissconnected
24---- TPS (Throttle Position Sensor)
54---- Distributor sync pickup <--- brand new
55---- End of code output

and before I replaced the o2 sensor it was reading code

12---- Battery disconnected <-- this is the start code
21---- Oxygen sensor or circuit
55---- End of code output <-- this is the end code

[Mudderoy]

wel i replaced the o2 sensor and still nothing but now i'm getting code..
12---- battery dissconnected
24---- tps (throttle position sensor)
54---- distributor sync pickup <--- brand new
55---- end of code output

and before i replaced the o2 sensor it was reading code

12---- battery disconnected <-- this is the start code
21---- oxygen sensor or circuit
55---- end of code output <-- this is the end code

wow!

[4.3LXJ]

PUnisher, check those grounds. My opinion is when you get multiple codes it is either a power supply issue or ECM. It used to work, so I say power supply (or exit) issue.

[Thomass]

54---- Distributor sync pickup

i tought you got a '91 4l

this one is notjet equipt wit an OBD ( i believe) but wit an DRB II.

and code 54 means more tan only the Distributor Sync Circuit

see below..

53 Logic Module The logic module fails.
54 Logic Module {Non-turbo vehicles - Only} The logic module fails.
54 Distributor Sync Circuit {Turbo vehicles - Only} No distributor sync pick-up(Sync. Pickup) signal seen by the logic module.
55 End of Sequence Indicates the end of diagnostic mode.
88 Start of Sequence Indicates start of diagnostic mode. NOTE: This
code must appear first in the diagnostic mode or fault codes will be inaccurate.

this is what i can remember , i might be mistaken, if it is fitted with an OBD system

[Punisher]

PUnisher, check those grounds. My opinion is when you get multiple codes it is either a power supply issue or ECM. It used to work, so I say power supply (or exit) issue.

All the grounds are nice and tight even the one by the ECM...

[Punisher]

i tought you got a '91 4l

this one is notjet equipt wit an OBD ( i believe) but wit an DRB II.

and code 54 means more tan only the Distributor Sync Circuit

see below..

53 Logic Module The logic module fails.
54 Logic Module {Non-turbo vehicles - Only} The logic module fails.
54 Distributor Sync Circuit {Turbo vehicles - Only} No distributor sync pick-up(Sync. Pickup) signal seen by the logic module.
55 End of Sequence Indicates the end of diagnostic mode.
88 Start of Sequence Indicates start of diagnostic mode. NOTE: This
code must appear first in the diagnostic mode or fault codes will be inaccurate.

this is what i can remember , i might be mistaken, if it is fitted with an OBD system



It is a 1991 with a inline 6 4.0 liter.. I just got the code info from my book..

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/11-19-2010120629AM.jpg

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/punisher1_972/11-19-2010120849AM.jpg

[Thomass]

I know, in my book are the same code's.
my local jeep garage pointed me today to the next file.

>>LINK>> (http://www.fseg.net/mopar/downloads/pl8384.pdf)

it is a mopar pdf

[4.3LXJ]

OK, so now you have it down to the ECM and distributor pick up?

[Punisher]

I know, in my book are the same code's.
my local jeep garage pointed me today to the next file.

>>LINK>> (http://www.fseg.net/mopar/downloads/pl8384.pdf)

it is a mopar pdf

Thats for the mid and late 80's models with 2.2L

[ice_cold]

What book/manual are you using Punisher?

[Punisher]

What book/manual are you using Punisher?

Haynes repair manual..

[XJ4IV]

I have found that its best to get BOTH the haynes and the Chiltons... for some reason one will not cover a portion of a break down and the other will... ie. one said replacing the steering column the first instruction we remove the steering wheel... no reference to HOW to remove the steering wheel I mean I know how but for somebody who deosnt that is useless information right there. Now I roll with both books in the jeep!!!

[Punisher]

I have found that its best to get BOTH the haynes and the Chiltons... for some reason one will not cover a portion of a break down and the other will... ie. one said replacing the steering column the first instruction we remove the steering wheel... no reference to HOW to remove the steering wheel I mean I know how but for somebody who deosnt that is useless information right there. Now I roll with both books in the jeep!!!

Oh I know whats ya mean.. I just have the hyanes for now but I'm loking for more cause I know there are things other books will cover that this one don't... Like I know some things that could be put in the haynes that not there...

[ice_cold]

Did you try going here?
http://www.greatlakesxj.com/tech.html

[Punisher]

Did you try going here?
http://www.greatlakesxj.com/tech.html

Yeah I did thanks.... I'm going to look it over a bit and see what I can find...

[Punisher]

Ok guys.. I'm back working on it again now that I got it in the garage...
I've checked all the wires and the grounds are nice and tight everything seems in good shape and this is what I got... number 6 cyclinder is the only one firing and the timing is good but it has to do something with the CPS and flywheel.. I took off the coil wire and put a screwdriver next to it so you can see how its sparking and from the video it should be sparking alot more than what I have here, Any Ideas what it could be wrong? check this out...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Pt5Wx2Q43Q

[Mudderoy]

Ok guys.. I'm back working on it again now that I got it in the garage...
I've checked all the wires and the grounds are nice and tight everything seems in good shape and this is what I got... number 6 cyclinder is the only one firing and the timing is good but it has to do something with the CPS and flywheel.. I took off the coil wire and put a screwdriver next to it so you can see how its sparking and from the video it should be sparking alot more than what I have here, Any Ideas what it could be wrong? check this out...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Pt5Wx2Q43Q

I still say you need to run a wire from the CPS to very close to the ECM. I'm assuming that's where the wires go. Bypass each wire (3 of them I think). Basically you are putting a good wire in the place of a bad wire. If you get it started then you know which wire is bad and you just clip it out and replace it with a good one same gauge.

If that doesn't fix the problem then you need to check the wires coming or going to the ECM.

I've never had a problem like this so I'm just talking from an electronics aspect.

[Mudderoy]

Have you done these?

You should be able to verify a bad cps, by unplugging it, and turning the ignition key to on. If the voltage gauge and/or the fuel gauge now displays correctly, replace the CPS.

Unplugging and reconnecting the CPS sensor where it connect to the main harness near the back of the intake manifold usually resets the ECU and if the jeep fires right up after doing this you can bet that the CPS is the culprit and needs to be replaced.

Exchange the fuel pump relay and the ASD relay with one of the other similar ones in the PDC to eliminate the relays as the cause of the no-start Confirm that the fuel pump to runs for 3-5 seconds when you turn the ignition key to ON.

Eliminate the NSS as a cause of no start. Wiggle the shift lever at the same time you try to start. Put the transmission in Neutral and do the same. Do the reverse lights come on when the shifter is in Reverse?

Inspect the wires and wire connectors at the O2 sensors on the exhausts pipe. A short circuit from melted insulation or from broken O2 sensor wires can blow a fuse and the ECU/ECM will loose communication.

Begin with basic trouble shooting of the start and charge systems. Remove, clean, and firmly reconnect all the wires and cables to the battery, starter, and alternator. Look for corroded or damaged cables and replace as needed. Do the same for the grounding wires from the battery and engine to the Cherokee's frame/body. Jeeps do not tolerate low voltage or poor grounds and the ECM/ECU will behave oddly until you remedy this.

[bluedragon436]

Well I am def. thinking you do have a bad connection or wire somewhere... I wish I had a spare harness or knew of where i could get you an underhood harness so you could replace yours... hmmm... should go and check out the local pnp's.... as I want to do that anyway... LOL...

[XJ4IV]

Ive never done that method shown in your video but is it NORMAL to have two sparks on the same rotation? Anyhow man I really wanna get this thing fixed for ya... I think we ALL do, its extremely frustrating when this kind of thing occurs and literally ALL you wanna do is punch the thing until you bleed... or something to that nature!
Can you do us a favor and so we can ALL see it take a vid of ALL the wires removed at the same time and show us in the dark the brightness of each wire as it arcs... there may be an issue with your coil or even the new dist or rotor. from what that video showed it looks as though you do have good spark and enough to at least get the engine fired up the next move is to unbolt the fuel rail and have camera video the fact that ALL injectors are spraying and spraying the same way... I have a set of factory injectors I can send you if that is the issue. let us know but I really think that having the fuel rail unbolted to where you can PHYSICALLY see fuel being sprayed you can either pin point that as the issue OR eliminate those as well as ALL fuel sending issues.

[Punisher]

Ive never done that method shown in your video but is it NORMAL to have two sparks on the same rotation? Anyhow man I really wanna get this thing fixed for ya... I think we ALL do, its extremely frustrating when this kind of thing occurs and literally ALL you wanna do is punch the thing until you bleed... or something to that nature!
Can you do us a favor and so we can ALL see it take a vid of ALL the wires removed at the same time and show us in the dark the brightness of each wire as it arcs... there may be an issue with your coil or even the new dist or rotor. from what that video showed it looks as though you do have good spark and enough to at least get the engine fired up the next move is to unbolt the fuel rail and have camera video the fact that ALL injectors are spraying and spraying the same way... I have a set of factory injectors I can send you if that is the issue. let us know but I really think that having the fuel rail unbolted to where you can PHYSICALLY see fuel being sprayed you can either pin point that as the issue OR eliminate those as well as ALL fuel sending issues.

You know its funny you say that, I dont know if the injectors are all working but I think if I pull the rail off and turn on the key and the pressure might build up and shoot out the injectors and get gas all over the place..? would that happen? or would the lock on the injector strong enough to hold it in place for the test? Cause if the flywheel is the problem and only getting a reading from some of the windows then some of the injectors wont spray... thats my guess but I'll guess I have to give it a try and hope for the best and if all the injectors work that its a wire problem for the spark...

[Mudderoy]

You know its funny you say that, I dont know if the injectors are all working but I think if I pull the rail off and turn on the key and the pressure might build up and shoot out the injectors and get gas all over the place..? would that happen? or would the lock on the injector strong enough to hold it in place for the test? Cause if the flywheel is the problem and only getting a reading from some of the windows then some of the injectors wont spray... thats my guess but I'll guess I have to give it a try and hope for the best and if all the injectors work that its a wire problem for the spark...

heavy blanket handy along with fire extinguisher!

[Punisher]

heavy blanket handy along with fire extinguisher!

LOL..........:smiley-angry021:

[XJ4IV]

Ohhh ive done it before... its about the same pressure youd get from a nice squirt water bottle... nothing like THAT kind of pressure to pull them off the seating of the fuel rail... literaly if you think of a windex bottle pressure thats what you will see... if any less then you have a problem.

[Punisher]

I'm getting about 4 or 5 injectors spraying gas 1 or 2 are not....

[XJ4IV]

WELLLLLL I WILL say this dont buy new injectors... easier to figure out just move the injectors around to make sure that those specific injectors are bad and if they ARE... do the 24# injector upgrade...and adjustable MAP sensor... I have under 100$ into mine... I had the sensor made by a member on here for 25 bucks and all 6 injectors for 65 and some misc connectors... this setup is AWESOME I noticed the most power increase with this setup! but first and foremost make sure that the injectors ARE bad and not something else... Did you take a video of the experiment?

[Punisher]

WELLLLLL I WILL say this dont buy new injectors... easier to figure out just move the injectors around to make sure that those specific injectors are bad and if they ARE... do the 24# injector upgrade...and adjustable MAP sensor... I have under 100$ into mine... I had the sensor made by a member on here for 25 bucks and all 6 injectors for 65 and some misc connectors... this setup is AWESOME I noticed the most power increase with this setup! but first and foremost make sure that the injectors ARE bad and not something else... Did you take a video of the experiment?

no i didnt take any video of the test as both my hands was busy figureing this out... I was just seeing if the flywheel was the problem from the cps cause I'm only get spark on the #6 so I figure if thats the cause then only 1 or 2 injector would spray but I have 2,3,6 and sometime 4 are spraying, but 1,5 are not so there for the cps is getting a reading but somewhere along the line its got to be the wiring problem some where that I need to find so I can get all the sparks working... I'll get new injectors once I get this motor running but in the mean time I need to find the spark problem...

[XJ4IV]

no i didnt take any video of the test as both my hands was busy figureing this out... I was just seeing if the flywheel was the problem from the cps cause I'm only get spark on the #6 so I figure if thats the cause then only 1 or 2 injector would spray but I have 2,3,6 and sometime 4 are spraying, but 1,5 are not so there for the cps is getting a reading but somewhere along the line its got to be the wiring problem some where that I need to find so I can get all the sparks working... I'll get new injectors once I get this motor running but in the mean time I need to find the spark problem...
See about having a buddy crank it over for you in the ptch dark and see if you have any plug wires grounding out... this happened to my durango a few years back and all i did was wrap em in e-tape til I could get a new set of wires...this is the first step and easiest... by no mean is it the end of diag unless your totally lucky

[Punisher]

See about having a buddy crank it over for you in the ptch dark and see if you have any plug wires grounding out... this happened to my durango a few years back and all i did was wrap em in e-tape til I could get a new set of wires...this is the first step and easiest... by no mean is it the end of diag unless your totally lucky

The wires are new...

[pvt.tadpolxj]

Did you try the two part black wire between the PCU and Battery? It come's apart. Mine was very corroded inside. I cleaned it out with very light sand paper, and my charging system went from very poor to brand new.:stars:

[Punisher]

Did you try the two part black wire between the PCU and Battery? It come's apart. Mine was very corroded inside. I cleaned it out with very light sand paper, and my charging system went from very poor to brand new.:stars:

Yeah, I checked it too and it's in good shape :thumbsup:

[XJ4IV]

... is it still covered under insurance???

[Punisher]

... is it still covered under insurance???

It was but I took it off so I dont waste money until i get it fixed... but I know what your going to say :smiley-laughing021:

[Mudderoy]

It was but I took it off so I dont waste money until i get it fixed... but I know what your going to say :smiley-laughing021:

This is a simple problem to fix. Finding the problem is hard, but once you find it you'll be sooo happy. :smiley-laughing021:

[Punisher]

This is a simple problem to fix. Finding the problem is hard, but once you find it you'll be sooo happy. :smiley-laughing021:

Yeah no shit...

[XJ4IV]

no THIS time I was gonna suggest filing under comprehensive... see about just getting it fixed thataway..., I blew the motor on my durango and I THINK I may go that route with mine and just get insurance to take care of it and pay my deductible and be done with it!

[ice_cold]

What fun is that???

Like Muddy says, I keep getting a feeling the problem is real simple, its just we have all gone over board and now cant see it.
Need to do a checklist, or a flow chart type set.

spark
v
v
Y---------N


and so on, what gives the spark and trace it wire by wire, same as the fuel. Then since its written in front of you, you can see what has and has not been done. Had a big white board, outside when working on my Jeep. The discovery is...my water pump has gone..pphhhbbbttt.
You have spark, but its sporadic, same as your fuel...right? What is the common piece to these 2 functions? Does any of the wiring travel in the same area? Continuity tests from sensor to where ever, might give you some ideas...Or its a bad contact in the computer...you have another one thats a known runner? The distributor is solid, no sloppiness, gear is on solid?
The only thing I can think of thats related to both the fuel and ignition is the computer. Testing the wires from the computer harness to its final destination for continuity, might show resistance or open circuits.

If that does not work......blow it up...jk

Mike

[Mudderoy]

Well my "simple" comment was a little bit of sarcasim. All problems are simple once you know the answer. The BITCH is finding it.

[ice_cold]

But the thing is most people go to the internet, everyone its this...you go fix it and its not that, so back to the internet...the vicious cycle begins.
Then one day after letting it go for a few days....sitting on the deck, mentally going threw things step by step...its there...right in front of your nose. Simple...lol
But like you say, its not while looking.

[4.3LXJ]

The problem with intermittent electrical problems is that if they are working, they ain't broke. I had one of those last Sunday. When I got it back to the shop and pointed my meter at it, it decided to work and has since. I tried to recreate the conditions that caused it, (wheeling) and it did not return so I haven't fixed it yet. Since you are having sporadic probems, put a meter on it and have someone crank it. I would bet the fuel problem is a bad relay or maybe the wire from the ECM. The interittent spark is either the cam position sensor or the wiring. So you know what is common to these two? That plug on your ECM. Have you cleaned that up?

[pvt.tadpolxj]

Hey Punisher. Just a little input! Have you ever taken you PCU apart They fit tightly together like cotact's so that all the relay's and fuses work. I have had mine apart a least two time's. When you seperate the two part's you can see all the wiring real good. Just take your time and be extra careful not to damage anything. And have you ever put any electrical spray where the fuses and relay's go. But use the spray according to direction's:cool:

[XJ4IV]

wonder if the computer has fried out or something? sometimes this occurs with no evidence

[pvt.tadpolxj]

Good thought. I would not be suprised if they could partly fail. Maybe Punisher can try his on another jeep?:patriot:

[Punisher]

I have 3 ECM im working with and they all do the same thing so it cna't be the ECM... and I replaced the O2 sensor and all the code input saying that all is good to go... Far as I'm going to do at this point is just wait til my brother inlaw gives me his jeep and have mine towed to a shop that deals with wiring and just pay someone to deal with the problem... It's driving me insane that I can't find the problem....

[ice_cold]

To far away for me to help physically. I am kinda of demented when it comes to electrical gremlins...I LOVE chasing them down. Test lights and meters...wire by wire.
With it being sporadic like it is, I am leaning to a cracked wire, not a broken one, so its shorting some place. Most likely a connector...pulled a wire when undoing the connector..looks good, but as power transfers over it, the power would heat the connection and then it breaks, cools and reconnects....just my 2 cents

[Weldmen]

So, Punisher did you ever get this figured out?. I have a similar problem wit mine. I think its my ECM tho.

[Punisher]

So, Punisher did you ever get this figured out?. I have a similar problem wit mine. I think its my ECM tho.

I havent really done anything to it as of now but I'm going to say that theres a bad connection or a bad wire of some kind so I'm going to take it to another shop and have them fiddle with it... I just got a 1996 XJ that my brother inlaw gave me for Cristmas as a gift so I'm just going to drive it til the other one is fixed but I will ask the mechanic what it was when he gets it figured out...

[Weldmen]

Did you read or hear some place that if the O2 sensor is bad that it will cause the Auto Shut Down?

[Punisher]

Did you read or hear some place that if the O2 sensor is bad that it will cause the Auto Shut Down?



If the O2 senser is bad all it'll happen that your motor will run lean or to rich but it wont stop your motor to shut down or not run... you can still drive on a bad O2 sensor but you may also get bad gas mileages..

[modestmar00xj]

Awesome Thread man! tons of good information! that engine is the nicest one i've ever seen in a jeep! ever! good work!

[Punisher]

Awesome Thread man! tons of good information! that engine is the nicest one i've ever seen in a jeep! ever! good work!

Thanks... I've always love to see a clean engine in cars and trucks... makes it easy to detect leaks..