Just Empty Every Pocket - My harmonic balancer FAIL [Archive] - xjtalk

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Mudderoy

09-10-2010, 07:17 PM

Well I heard a grinding sound so I pulled into a gas station. I found that the mechanical fan was rubbing on the harmonic balancer. The balancer was out by about 1/2 inch.
Can't run the engine so I'm stuck.

Waiting now for new balancer and tools.

UPDATE: :camera:

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_b0ViaGso2Ko/TIwhllrURrI/AAAAAAAAAbA/EBIVkPfeShc/s800/2010-09-11%2019.34.25.jpg

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_b0ViaGso2Ko/TIwhQbM6r6I/AAAAAAAAAa0/uPAb-WsJRzI/s800/2010-09-11%2019.35.16.jpg

4.3LXJ

09-10-2010, 08:26 PM

That is not good. Hope you get your stuff soon.

Mudderoy

09-11-2010, 01:09 AM

Well I heard a grinding sound so I pulled into a gas station. I found that the mechanical fan was rubbing on the harmonic balancer. The balancer was out by about 1/2 inch.
Can't run the engine so I'm stuck.

Waiting now for new balancer and tools.

I typed all that from my phone while I was busy waiting. I can be a little more verbose now that I'm at the full sized keyboard.

I was about 1/2 way home and I took a left on to a side road, through a neighborhood. I took a right and just as I was accelerating to the next stop sign I hear what sounds like one of the fans rubbing on something metal. I feared the fan was against the radiator. I turned off the A/C in hopes that if it was the electric fan turning off the A/C would turn it off and stop the noise.

I was about 99% sure it was the fan.

Just before the stop sign and a major four lane highway was a Conaco gas station, I pulled in there. I popped the hood and to my dismay the mechanical fan was rubbing on the harmonic balancer!

I've never seen this. I quickly turned off the engine. I stood there trying to figure out how this could be. I checked the front of the balancer and the bolt was there. I could see that the belt wasn't lined up with the other pulleys. I feared that something had happened to the crankshaft, but was puzzled since everything was running fine and noise free with the exception of the fan.

I started the engine back up, just long enough to check the oil pressure. When I did the oil pressure came right up and was where it always was after getting warm. Then it threw the belt.

I seemed to remember reading something about the harmonic balancers coming apart on the Jeeps, Cherokees I thought.

I looked a little closer, and figured the loop around the harmonic balancer had moved forward. Having rguignard's phone number I gave him a call and bounced my theories off of him. He agreed that what I thought was the problem was the problem, and then offered to drive the 1.5 hours to where I was to help me. I laughed and told him know, that was just too much to ask.

I called O'Reily's auto parts and to my amazement the harmonic balancer was something they carried. My wife and step-son went and picked up the balancer and a puller.

About 45 minutes later my step-son arrived with parts and tools. We quickly found out that the puller would NOT work! I called O'reily's to see if they had a puller that used three bolts that would screw into the balancer instead of the one I had when tried to grip the sides through the slots. There just wasn't enough room for this to grasp the balancer. He said that was all they carried and mentioned I might need the tool to put the new balancer on! Well DUH!

Anyway my step-son wasn't going to drive the 30 or so minutes back home he just went to two near by auto parts places. Taking the new balancer with him he returned with a puller and an installer. The puller worked great and 15 minutes later the old balancer was off.

It took me a couple of minutes to figure out how the installer worked, but I got it together and slowly was pressing the new balancer on. Then the damn thing broke a good 1/4 inch before it was completely on!

The part that screwed into the crank sheered of flush with the crankshaft!

I laid there in utter disbelief! The only way I would get a drill in there with a ez-out would be to remove the engine! My first real break happened. I took my work glove off and started trying to feel and think of how I could get that out. If I had my dremel and 120 volts I could put a notch in it and get a flat blade screwdriver on it. It had already been several hours since I should have been home and I was very tired.

A small bump of metal protruded just enough for my fingernail to catch it. It really looked like it moved. I stared trying to move it with my fingernail, it was loose! I turned it and turned it and in less than a minute it was out!

I took the washer and bolt that holds the balancer on and used it to complete the installation. I had to remove the electric fan, and re-route the belt. I didn't have my little graduated thumb to verify the tightness of the belt, so I just used my thumb. It was wrong the belt squeals for a couple of seconds, but I was done, and back on the road.

Thirty minutes later I was home, it was nearly 11pm. So only 5 hours late!

I'll get some pictures up very soon, just not tonight.

Basically the outer weighted portion of the balancer separated from the inner portion that bolts to the crankshaft. With the spinning and tension from the belt it moved forward about 1/2 an inch and came in contact with the fan. Just slightly, no obvious damage to the blades of the fan.

After looking at it I believe I could have made a temporary fix with a nice batch of epoxy, at least enough of a patch to get home. My assumption is that the harmonic balancer is balanced at the factory (who ever made it) so when I removed the outer ring it would have been near impossible for me to get it back in the exact same spot.

I recommend two things. If you have a old balancer, check it. If it is fine then get a file dremel or something and make a notch, or a couple, so that if it comes a part on you you'll know where it goes.

Carry some epoxy with you then remove the ring, glue the hell out of it and put the ring back while the epoxy cures.

I have NO WAY of knowing if this would work very well but I feel comfortable enough to make sure I add this to my list of stuff to carry. Epoxy!

So as it stands I need to tighten up the belt. Put some lock tight blue on the harmonic balancer bolt and torque it, but at least she's home in the garage.

Thomass

09-11-2010, 02:55 AM

Having rguignard's phone number I gave him a call and bounced my theories off of him. He agreed that what I thought was the problem was the problem, and then offered to drive the 1.5 hours to where I was to help me. I laughed and told him know, that was just too much to ask.

I like what i read, that friends do not mind to drive 1.5 hours up and back to help out an other friend.

If this forum had a "hall of fame" rguignard should be in it.

Thomass

XJ4IV

09-11-2010, 02:57 AM

That DAMN red paint... :thumbsup:

cantab27

09-11-2010, 05:26 AM

so its fixed tony ,,, ill turn around and head home then ........shot for fixing on side of road , and big ups for rene for offering to come out and help ..

rguignard

09-11-2010, 08:05 AM

I like what i read, that friends do not mind to drive 1.5 hours up and back to help out an other friend.

If this forum had a "hall of fame" rguignard should be in it.

Thomass

so its fixed tony ,,, ill turn around and head home then ........shot for fixing on side of road , and big ups for rene for offering to come out and help ..

thanks you 2 i would do it for anyone that i know and like :smiley-laughing021: i allways feel that karma goes a long way :thumbsup: the would just isnt nice anymore thanks to all the damn lawyers :thumbdown: its kind of funny i wont stop to help anyone thats broke down on the side of the road except for old people not men or woman that are under 50 you just never know what might happen or what they might say you did. muddy glade to here you up and running but yes i would have come and helped out :thumbsup: so if you ever need it just let me know :thumbsup:

Mudderoy

09-11-2010, 08:08 AM

thanks you 2 i would do it for anyone that i know and like :smiley-laughing021: i allways feel that karma goes a long way :thumbsup: the would just isnt nice anymore thanks to all the damn lawyers :thumbdown: its kind of funny i wont stop to help anyone thats broke down on the side of the road except for old people not men or woman that are under 50 you just never know what might happen or what they might say you did. muddy glade to here you up and running but yes i would have come and helped out :thumbsup: so if you ever need it just let me know :thumbsup:

Oh I know, that's why I told you know so fast. I was afraid if I didn't I'd hear a click and the next time I talked to you was face to face. When you're in a situation like that it's good to know that you can count on someone that you've met in person less than a 1/2 dozen times! :patriot:

Mudderoy

09-11-2010, 08:35 AM

That DAMN red paint... :thumbsup:

Or maybe not enough RED paint!

BlueXJ

09-11-2010, 09:02 AM

I have replaced engines a few times and see that the harmonic balancer was off kilter so would replace it at that time but never had one to fail while on the road. You were very lucky that it happened where it did. That and that you had a friend in relative close proximity who would come to your aid.
Thank you rgiugnard for assisting Tony. Those who know him and could have been of any relief for him would have done the same. You, sir, are a good man.

4.3LXJ

09-11-2010, 03:38 PM

cheap jeep

09-11-2010, 07:01 PM

I have seen balancers come loose before,just not on a Jeep

msmoorenburg

09-11-2010, 08:16 PM

FYI

I've drivin across Texas to pickup a buddy and his dead rig :thumbsup:

Mudderoy

09-11-2010, 08:17 PM

FYI

I've drivin across Texas to pickup a buddy and his dead rig :thumbsup:

Hell I'd even drive across country to pick up a dead buddies rig!

Mudderoy

09-11-2010, 08:17 PM

Well I heard a grinding sound so I pulled into a gas station. I found that the mechanical fan was rubbing on the harmonic balancer. The balancer was out by about 1/2 inch.
Can't run the engine so I'm stuck.

Waiting now for new balancer and tools.

UPDATE: :camera:

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_b0ViaGso2Ko/TIwhllrURrI/AAAAAAAAAbA/EBIVkPfeShc/s800/2010-09-11%2019.34.25.jpg

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_b0ViaGso2Ko/TIwhQbM6r6I/AAAAAAAAAa0/uPAb-WsJRzI/s800/2010-09-11%2019.35.16.jpg

Added these pictures to the original post.

XJ4IV

09-12-2010, 12:29 AM

Mudderoy

09-12-2010, 01:27 AM

really chaps my hide.... I live SOOOOOO much closer to you and I didnt know this happened until the next day....... though whats REALLY odd was that WHEN this occured... I was out near RGuignards house:hmmmm2:

It's all good. I suppose I'm a little strange. I never expect any help on things, I figure a plan to fix it and do it. I just called Rene because I wanted to know what he thought of a problem I had never seen. It was great that he offered to drive out, but that wasn't why I called. He was help simply because I was able to get a 2nd opinion. Kept me from calling a tow truck and spending $100 to $150 I didn't have.

Just being able to talk to someone that has the same vehicle as yours can be a great help! :patriot:

oderdene

09-12-2010, 07:41 AM

Once a had a similar thing. 2 year ago, late night I driving to home and heard strange sounds from engine bay. Stopped and looked there, found serpentine belt narrowed by 2 rib and was shaggy. Cut all messy and slow driving with remaining 3 rib. Next morning inspected everything, this harmonic balancer shifted to front one third of inch and divided serpentine belt. hammered back to original position and gentle driving until receipt of new balancer. Made puller and replaced balancer and belt.

Yours is separated, so pity. But you are very lucky, man.

Mudderoy

09-12-2010, 06:42 PM

I just torqued the harmonic balancer bolt. 80 foot pounds.

I recommend anyone with 160k miles or more check your harmonic balancer. You don't want to be on the trail or 100 miles from home when it goes out. It's a pretty easy fix but I would have rather did it in the garage.

oderdene

09-12-2010, 08:46 PM

I recommend anyone with 160k miles or more check your harmonic balancer. You don't want to be on the trail or 100 miles from home ...

2X

Thomass

09-13-2010, 03:14 AM

Thanks again R Guinard. This goes back to good old fashioned wheeler etiquette of a number of years ago. Back in the day, if a friend or a friend of a friend called you up and said they were stuck or stranded, you got in your rig and picked them up and went after the stuck or disabled rig. Didn't matter what time of night it was either. No one was ever left behind and all pitched in to help fix something, even donating some of your own spare parts, which were promptly returned in original condition.
This sounds like a fairytale, in my ears.
If i got stuck with my bike or my Rig, i did spend more money on the phone calls i made, to get help of an "friend" than the actually towing home by a towing company cost.
Maby i do live in a wrong area of this world :-))

But without fun, I really like what i read, this behaviour is not so common nowadays, it's a treasure called friendship

Mudderoy

09-13-2010, 09:11 AM

This sounds like a fairytale, in my ears.
If i got stuck with my bike or my Rig, i did spend more money on the phone calls i made, to get help of an "friend" than the actually towing home by a towing company cost.
Maby i do live in a wrong area of this world :-))

But without fun, I really like what i read, this behaviour is not so common nowadays, it's a treasure called friendship

Wow that is surprising. I really thought your area of the world was pretty laid back and friendly. Maybe towing is just a LOT cheaper there! :smiley-laughing021:

4.3LXJ

09-13-2010, 09:56 AM

This sounds like a fairytale, in my ears.
If i got stuck with my bike or my Rig, i did spend more money on the phone calls i made, to get help of an "friend" than the actually towing home by a towing company cost.
Maby i do live in a wrong area of this world :-))

But without fun, I really like what i read, this behaviour is not so common nowadays, it's a treasure called friendship

No fairy tale. We spotted a broke down XJ we think belongs to one of my wife's coworkers. We are actively seeking to find out if it is and will hook up the strap and tow it home if it is.

Melissa

09-14-2010, 11:17 AM

Glad you got your XJ back on the road Muddy, it would be a shame for your pretty rig to be broke down :)

xj4life2

09-14-2010, 06:21 PM

No fairy tale. We spotted a broke down XJ we think belongs to one of my wife's coworkers. We are actively seeking to find out if it is and will hook up the strap and tow it home if it is.

Let me know if ya need a hand Steve !!!

4.3LXJ

09-14-2010, 07:44 PM

Let me know if ya need a hand Steve !!!

They apparently got it home. It is not there as of yesterday.

XJ Rat

09-16-2010, 12:16 PM

Last month the harmonic balancer on my son's XJ gave out. All told it took about 3 hours to change it in a parking lot at Texas A & M.

It seems the rubber breaks down, so yes, if you have more than 150,000 miles on the clock, do yourself a favor and inspect it. Just the age of our XJ's warrants the inspection regardless of the miles.

cantab27

12-24-2010, 05:05 PM

knew i should have read this post properly ... mine start with a we grinding like noise up the river last night ,,, lucky to get home me thinks ,,, what did a new one cost you tony ??..

Mudderoy

12-24-2010, 06:07 PM

knew i should have read this post properly ... mine start with a we grinding like noise up the river last night ,,, lucky to get home me thinks ,,, what did a new one cost you tony ??..

$45 :patriot:

cantab27

12-24-2010, 06:09 PM

$45 :patriot:

so i can x $45.00 by 4 down here :eek: :smiley-laughing021:

Punisher

01-02-2011, 08:02 AM

Now that I've read this after this happened to me, My ? is they have a installing tool for the damper? Must be sumin they come up with to make money on... I just lined up that little slot and pushed it enough to get the center bolt on then tighten it up...
Got mine done in 1 hour.. pretty easy to do if ya have the right tools with ya... and it does'nt hurt to pick one up off the local junkyard and spare it in your tool box (Just incase)...

LizardRunner

01-05-2011, 11:46 AM

Friends are great !!! I am glad such a catastrophic failure didn't do major damage to your rig. That could have been really really bad like punctured radiator and trashed fan not to mention power steering hoses. (I only mention such things from personal experience in off road racing)

GetRstuck

10-17-2013, 02:39 PM

Mudderoy

10-17-2013, 02:54 PM

Had some questions about my harmonic balancer. How can you tell if it is going bad? And is their an upgrade or just get the cheapest harmonic balancer available?

I have a 96 2wd 4.0l and having major vibrations 1500 to 2000 rpms with a little gas. I also have busted right side motor mount. But runs smooth with heavy gas.

Personally I don't have a clue. I've never had one fail before. I had about 120 to 140k on mine when it came apart. I suspect it was due to the heat we have in Texas during the summer. If you replace it, you might want to replace the seal at the same time, the only one make leak.

4.3LXJ

10-17-2013, 03:32 PM

The easiest way to tell if it is failing is with belt alignment. If it starts creeping out, then it is about to fail. The only fix is to replace it. As to your vibs, replace the motor mount first since I suspect something is hitting the unibody. If it still persists, we can go from there

GetRstuck

10-17-2013, 05:00 PM

Personally I don't have a clue. I've never had one fail before. I had about 120 to 140k on mine when it came apart. I suspect it was due to the heat we have in Texas during the summer. If you replace it, you might want to replace the seal at the same time, the only one make leak.

Which seal would that be. The crankshaft.

OrangeXJ

10-17-2013, 05:40 PM

Which seal would that be. The crankshaft.

correct the front crank seal

xj4life2

10-17-2013, 07:13 PM

The easiest way to tell is to manually check the timing, yes I know that XJ's are computer controlled so the ecm will compensate for a slipping harmonic, but if you do a static test and its off...Change it. Also look at the balancer and see if the rubber (originally they were leather) "gasket" between the two halves is reseeding or sticking out its time to change it. Had the one on my XJ go once, nothing like Mudddy went through but a cold afternoon in the gravel none the less.

GetRstuck

10-17-2013, 09:00 PM

Is there a better harmonic balancer or are they all the same?

xj4life2

10-17-2013, 10:08 PM

look for a lifetime warrenty , other than that they are basically the same

ArmyGuy45

10-18-2013, 10:28 AM