Electrical Problem? Maybe...

[Punisher]

Ok Members.... This been going on to long and I'm just about ready to go and buy another Jeep if I can't fix this....
4 months ago I was going to work and everything was just fine and dandy.. and I pulled of the highway exit and drove about a mile then stop at a light then I started off again and all of a sudden the jeep just died.. (like someone reached over and turned off the key) Hmmmmm WTF!??? Well since then I brought it home tried a few things to it and I got so clueless I even sent it to the mechanic to look at it, WELL..... he even thought it could be the ECM and kept it for 3 months waiting to see if he could get a loaner to see it thats the problem.... Well I got so sick of waiting I just went as fas as just buying one from ebay just to see if thats the problem... well I got it in and put it on and it came out of the same year and all like my jeep and its still doing the same thing so it can't be the ECM I even put a new distributor and CPS and so for and still doing the same thing... All I can say its getting spark on some plugs and then it doesnt and it back and its gone sooooooo Does anyone have anything like this happen to you? if so PLLLLLEEEEAAAASSSSEEEE TELL me what the hell it is I have to do to fix this or I'll just going to have to part this jeep out for a new one and BELEIVE me I REALLY dont want to cause I lover this jeep so much I'd cry if I got rid of it.....

[4.3LXJ]

Has anyone checked the fusible links on the starter relay. They can go on you and you would never know unless you know to check them. They provide power to lots of things directly, like the ECM

[ice_cold]

This might be a long shot...you say it starts, runs then dies?
My old CJ did this, it turned out that the gear on the end of the distributor was messed up. Got all kinds of messed up ignition problems.
Just a thought.

[Thomass]

Hi my friends,
As 4.3LXJ wrote “Has anyone checked the fusible links on the starter relay. They can go on you and you would never know unless you know to check them. They provide power to lots of things directly, like the ECM” , This is not what I believe, because a fuse is “good, or bad” there is no in-between.
If a fuse is blown, it will not restore it self’s, and the problem would be there all the time.
As Punisher stated, sometimes it occurs and sometimes it doesn’t, we can rule out the fuse.
As ice_cold mentioned “it turned out that the gear on the end of the distributor was messed up. Got all kinds of messed up ignition problems.”
If the gear is messed up, then the result should be that also the timing is gone, and than it would not start at al, or runs very very roughly. And from this I did not found any in Punisher his conversation.
I ratter think of an broken wire, (in the shield), or an groundings problem.
What did you already check, except for the EMC, you said you changed the distributor and CPS, I guess for new once. But what do you mean with distributor. The complete part (from engine to top) or just the rotor or the cap?
You stated “All I can say its getting spark on some plugs and then it doesn’t” are this always the same plugs what will not fire, and are they in fire following order or is it random.
This last question, for if you just changed the cap and the rotor and not the complete part.
To explain, when the rotor is rotating it will touch all the connectors towards the spark plug wires.
If the axle in the distribution housing has a little play (because of wear during the years) the rotor will not always “touch” when he revolves.
Also the spark plug wires, do not have an eternal life. As carbon wires can break easily inside creating a gap what will prevent the system from firing with a good spark (a spark outside the engine may look fine, but when in the combustion room under pressure may (will)fail. 9for this I use a spark-checker)
Than, are all the groundings tight and strong connected?
You said: “the jeep just died.. (like someone reached over and turned off the key)”
I assume when you started again it just started at once?
If so, I should really check the wiring from distributor and coil and further.
I do not know what kind of coil you use, but in mine, it will sometimes jump lose out of his holder.
I have to replace it for another (or other system)
So check the play on the rotor, try to move it with your fingers in al possible ways.
Check your spark plug wires, (and connections (corrosion or play)

This will fill your weekend nicely.

Thomass

[Punisher]

What its doing is... when you turn over the motor its sounds like it WANTs to start but I know the sparks is coming and going but as soon as I push the pedel a little for gas its like I flooded the cylinder and it just keeps on turning over but if I wait a bit then do it again...... it does the same thing..

[Punisher]

ice_cold
Level: Jeep Liberty

This might be a long shot...you say it starts, runs then dies?
My old CJ did this, it turned out that the gear on the end of the distributor was messed up. Got all kinds of messed up ignition problems.
Just a thought.


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it turns over but wont start at all... it tryin to start but just keeps turnin over when i touch the gas pedel... and I know it's not the distributor cause its all brand new part even the base of the dis.

[Punisher]

Hi my friends,
As 4.3LXJ wrote “Has anyone checked the fusible links on the starter relay. They can go on you and you would never know unless you know to check them. They provide power to lots of things directly, like the ECM” , This is not what I believe, because a fuse is “good, or bad” there is no in-between.
If a fuse is blown, it will not restore it self’s, and the problem would be there all the time.
As Punisher stated, sometimes it occurs and sometimes it doesn’t, we can rule out the fuse.
As ice_cold mentioned “it turned out that the gear on the end of the distributor was messed up. Got all kinds of messed up ignition problems.”
If the gear is messed up, then the result should be that also the timing is gone, and than it would not start at al, or runs very very roughly. And from this I did not found any in Punisher his conversation.
I ratter think of an broken wire, (in the shield), or an groundings problem.
What did you already check, except for the EMC, you said you changed the distributor and CPS, I guess for new once. But what do you mean with distributor. The complete part (from engine to top) or just the rotor or the cap?
You stated “All I can say its getting spark on some plugs and then it doesn’t” are this always the same plugs what will not fire, and are they in fire following order or is it random.
This last question, for if you just changed the cap and the rotor and not the complete part.
To explain, when the rotor is rotating it will touch all the connectors towards the spark plug wires.
If the axle in the distribution housing has a little play (because of wear during the years) the rotor will not always “touch” when he revolves.
Also the spark plug wires, do not have an eternal life. As carbon wires can break easily inside creating a gap what will prevent the system from firing with a good spark (a spark outside the engine may look fine, but when in the combustion room under pressure may (will)fail. 9for this I use a spark-checker)
Than, are all the groundings tight and strong connected?
You said: “the jeep just died.. (like someone reached over and turned off the key)”
I assume when you started again it just started at once?
If so, I should really check the wiring from distributor and coil and further.
I do not know what kind of coil you use, but in mine, it will sometimes jump lose out of his holder.
I have to replace it for another (or other system)
So check the play on the rotor, try to move it with your fingers in al possible ways.
Check your spark plug wires, (and connections (corrosion or play)

This will fill your weekend nicely.

Thomass


These are all the things I've done so far...
I did replace the whole distributor and cap and rotor also the plugs and wires..
I also replaced the coil with a new one...
Also the CPS is new...
I even put a used ECM or ECU which ever you want to call it but the old one must not be bad cause with the replacement one I put in its still doing the same...
I've checked the wires by the starter, alternator, fuse block,and the ECM and they all seems to be fine...

So whats happening is when I check for spark what its doing is say like plugs 1,3,4 is sparking and the others are not the all of a sudden 1,3 is the 4 decides not to spark and the others do.... so I'm like WTH was that all about... But the mechanic told me that cylinder 3 has no or low compression but that has nutin to do with anything so if it was to start it'll just run rough...

[4.3LXJ]

You sure that distributer is good? Most particularly the cam position sensor?

[Punisher]

You sure that distributer is good? Most particularly the cam position sensor?

yeah its brand new and along with the CPS too

Here's a video of the engine tryin to start and see or hear if any of you know what it may be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUExURGOKZM

[4.3LXJ]

OK, thanks for the vid. Worth a thousand posts lol. At this point, I would check the timing. Remember, crank pulleys can self destruct on theses things. Pull #1 spark plug. rotate the engine both by hand and by the starter while using a timing light. My own engine gave me fits for awhile after putting everything back together because there are two timing marks on it and I was using the wrong one. But the bottom line is that it sounded exactly the same as what your video gave me. It was most frustrating as I know it has been for you. So find TDC the mechanical way. You can find it almost exactly while rotating the crankshaft by hand by sticking a long screw driver down the spark plug hole. But go slowly and keep a gentle hand on that screw driver. I bet your ECM is so confused it doesn't know when to spark.

[Punisher]

OK, thanks for the vid. Worth a thousand posts lol. At this point, I would check the timing. Remember, crank pulleys can self destruct on theses things. Pull #1 spark plug. rotate the engine both by hand and by the starter while using a timing light. My own engine gave me fits for awhile after putting everything back together because there are two timing marks on it and I was using the wrong one. But the bottom line is that it sounded exactly the same as what your video gave me. It was most frustrating as I know it has been for you. So find TDC the mechanical way. You can find it almost exactly while rotating the crankshaft by hand by sticking a long screw driver down the spark plug hole. But go slowly and keep a gentle hand on that screw driver. I bet your ECM is so confused it doesn't know when to spark.

ya know. after putting up the vid I was thinkin maybe the timing might have jump a tooth or so... I'll check it out tomorrow as its rainin now... thanks and ill let ya know what happen...

[Thomass]

what i do mis in this, (or i overlooked it) are there any Computer Codes readings.
like 43 (misfire) or 54 (distributor sync pick-up) = (sync sensor in distributor)

what i thought of, if there is an alarm fitted in the rig, this might be broken and will avoid the proper firing.

Thomass

a link ( i do not know how to shorten it) what might help in checking
http://www.lunghd.com/Tech_Articles/Engine/Cam_Position_Sensor_and_Sync_Pulse_Stator.htm

[Punisher]

what i do mis in this, (or i overlooked it) are there any Computer Codes readings.
like 43 (misfire) or 54 (distributor sync pick-up) = (sync sensor in distributor)

what i thought of, if there is an alarm fitted in the rig, this might be broken and will avoid the proper firing.

Thomass

a link ( i do not know how to shorten it) what might help in checking
http://www.lunghd.com/Tech_Articles/Engine/Cam_Position_Sensor_and_Sync_Pulse_Stator.htm

There are no alarm, and the code I was getting is a "12" something about battery disconnected 50 times ?????

[ice_cold]

I agree with 4.3, the way it sounds in the vid, it sounds like timing issue.

[Punisher]

I checked for timing and everything is dead nuts... Got it at TDC and the rotor is on number one I watch for the rocker on the head and it did the intake and the mark is on the mark of TDC....

So I was wondering the magnetic thing on the flywheel that the Crankshaft position sensor reads off of, Does that ever go bad? I had it replaced a while ago when I dropped the motor in cause the other one was cracked...

[4.3LXJ]

Yes, they go bad.

[XJ4IV]

I replaced mine on my durango few weks back and that was the problem HOWEVER mine was staying lit but running like poo and as soon as I put mine in reverse it died BUT it would start right up but it would sound like a misfire.
MSMoorenburg (matt) told me those things are like icicles and they fail anytime you oretty much jar it like in the event of a tranny swap

[Punisher]

Ok guys... I took off the crankshaft position sensor and looked at the flywheel to see if I had any play... and I had it cranked over. I can see that it was wobbling about a 1/4 in so I'm thinking hmmmm could that be the problem? See the video and see for yourself..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaWqLYgk-pw

[oderdene]

Oh! Youtube said:

This is a private video. If you have been sent this video, please make sure you accept the sender's friend request.

:(:(:(

It would be the reason.

[4.3LXJ]

Can't see the video either.

[BlueXJ]

Won't you be my friend and let me see the darned video????????????

[Punisher]

Sorry Guys!!! I didnt realized I clicked private... Lets try this again lol...:thumbsup:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaWqLYgk-pw

[XJ4IV]

that thing looks warped for some reason... I really cant tell... can you remove the whole dust shield and the starter to get a good look at the fly wheel and rotate it manually? thats crazy

[pvt.tadpolxj]

Hey XJ41V.. just been reading your post. I was having all kind's of starting issue's with my 91Xj when i first picked it up. I'm not really sure what i did to make the repair, but I removed all of the ignition wiring that would detach or unplug or unbolt on the passenger side o engine compartment. Then just checked it all out real good, and arranged it in a more professional way and reinstalled. Also there is a large blk. ground betwwen your battery and your PCU . It unplug's. Mine was very corroded inside I just cleaned it real good with some real light sandpaper.:thumbsup:

[Mudderoy]

Hey XJ41V.. just been reading your post. I was having all kind's of starting issue's with my 91Xj when i first picked it up. I'm not really sure what i did to make the repair, but I removed all of the ignition wiring that would detach or unplug or unbolt on the passenger side o engine compartment. Then just checked it all out real good, and arranged it in a more professional way and reinstalled. Also there is a large blk. ground betwwen your battery and your PCU . It unplug's. Mine was very corroded inside I just cleaned it real good with some real light sandpaper.:thumbsup:

His flywheel was broken all the way around. The CPS wasn't picking up the magnet on the flywheel properly. He's rebuilt the engine already and replaced the flywheel.

[Weldmen]

never mind

[XJ4IV]

was the sensor replaced?

[Punisher]

was the sensor replaced?

yeah everything is brand new

[pvt.tadpolxj]

Hey punisher have you ever tried wiggling your shifter forward and backward quickly in Nuetral then seeing if it will start?:stars:

[Punisher]

Hey punisher have you ever tried wiggling your shifter forward and backward quickly in Nuetral then seeing if it will start?:stars:

I know its not that but i've tried... it is trying to start but I'm not getting all the sparks it needs just on number 6 cyclinder...
go to this forum and youll see that I rebuilt a new motor....
http://www.xjtalk.com/showthread.php?t=4633

[LizardRunner]

that sounds like your CPS is in need of replacement, that one little sensor will kill the engine mysteriously as you are driving down the road. It's an easy one to replace too, just one bolt to remove, pull the old one and put in the new one, the bolt sets it up to the right position.

[Punisher]

that sounds like your CPS is in need of replacement, that one little sensor will kill the engine mysteriously as you are driving down the road. It's an easy one to replace too, just one bolt to remove, pull the old one and put in the new one, the bolt sets it up to the right position.

There are 2 bolts holding the CPS on and they do not adjust... I've already put a brand new one on but thats not the problem.. It's sumin in the wiring thats causing sumin wrong...