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Mudderoy
08-13-2010, 11:51 AM
http://redvest.typepad.com/boggled/Picture%202.jpg

Maybe I've watched one to many disaster/zombie/apocalyptic movies but after seeing how badly people reacted to the category 5 hurricane Rita that was approaching the SE Texas coast I started thinking that what I saw in some of those movies could really happen.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005JMXX.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

In a normally tranquil neighborhood someone stole a 5 gallon can of gas from the driveway in broad daylight! Our neighbors tried to evacuate to the North of Houston, but in 12 hours they traveled 5 miles!

http://culturemap.com/site_media/uploads/photos/2010-07-16/Hurricane_Rita_Houston_evacuation_traffic.350w_263 h.jpg

All this and the hurricane never hit us, nor did the weather even get bad. What would have happened if the hurricane had hit and hundred of thousands of people were still on the highways and back roads trying to flee?

What would you do as fear gripped you with your wife and children looking at you for a solution. What if they were really young children? I'm sure many of the people would have hit the off road arena probably for the first time in their lives and with vehicles that were ill equipped to handle it. Youtube videos of off roading Priuses come to mind.

Several, if not most, of us have very capable off road rigs. Since they are station wagons we have a good platform for moving ourselves, family and some important things necessary to survive. One of the things we like about our customized rigs, is they LOOK customized and like tough go anywhere vehicles.

Now imagine what your vehicle would look like to a panicked, normally peaceful, man trying to save his family? If you were driving your 35 mile per gallon Toyota, or really pretty much any 2 wheel drive vehicle what would a customized Jeep Cherokee look like to you? It would look like a way out of the dire predicament you are in. A solution, but you would have to take that vehicle away from the person(s) that had it. You didn't plan and you're really sorry about that but you need a solution now!

It wasn't until after I started building up my Jeep that I really thought about this. I certainly would understand the panic, the fear, and the need to do anything to save my family, and in fact that was the primary reason I started building up the Jeep. But now I have something that is going to be the target of desperate people.

How could I ensure that I was able to keep my vehicle as people tried to stop me to take it? How could I do this without making their situation worse?
The only thing I could think of was something big and menacing. As in a gun. Big has it's problem especially in the confines of a small vehicle, so I would need something big and small. Gun was really the only thing that came to mind. Everyone knows what they will do and my hopes were that when a panicked individual was confronted with certain death over possible death they would at least decide to get out of my way and attack the next less well armed individuals.

I decided the best bang for the buck was a AK-47. It has high round capacity, known for it's reliability, and a large diameter projectile that can easily pierce vehicle sheet metal. One individual may be able to be reasoned with, a group less so and a crowd would really be a problem, so high capacity magazine and multiple weapons would be needed to give you a fighting chance to extract you and your family from this situation.

http://www.bearonarock.com/images/AK%20Folding%20Stock.jpg

I felt a folding stock was mandatory to be able to move the weapon in and our of the Jeep. I have added a front peg to assist with stability and accuracy when shooting the AK-47 with the stock folded.

Another excellent weapon to have is a short "defender" type 12 gauge shotgun with a pistol grip. Accuracy isn't really a problem here, and your ability to swing and aim in close quarters is key.

http://widget.slide.com/rdr/1/1/3/W/2200000006d03f30/1/79/egW3Rynl3T8bXyOsCUd87PiE1F2LqnwS.jpg

I don't think you could rely on these weapons alone. They take too much time and effort to use especially while driving which would most certainly be in a high stress situation. You need a high capacity large caliber hand gun.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/Gixerman1000/Handguns/GlockG22.jpg

The Glock 22 fires .40 cal and holds 15 rounds. The Glock 27 also fires .40 cal rounds and holds 9, however an inexpensive mod will allow it to hold 10 rounds in the clip. Both guns can hold one in the chamber, so 15+1 and 9+1 (10+1) would be the true capacity of the weapon. The nice thing about the Glock 22/27 combination (Having both) is you can use the 15 round clips in the sub compact Glock 27! Sure it sticks way out but we're going for survival here not looks.

http://www.thunderboltguns.com/images/uploads/G27.jpg

Lastly and this is just a good all around thing to have is a good knife.

http://www.hahnssurplus.com/images/P/KB1217.jpg

It looks impressive, it's long and it is capable of being very sharp. It is designed to be a fighting knife and was used for many years by the USMC. The 12" K-Bar knife.

I look at the defense as multiple circles or spheres around the point you are trying to defend.

Going from closest to farthest:

1. Knife 12" (0 to 2 feet - one target)
2. Pistol 9mm, .40, .45 (0 to 20 yards - usually one target at a time)
3. Shotgun 12 gauge (0 to 20 yards - multiple targets)
4. Assault Weapon 7.62x39mm (0 to 75 yards - multiple targets - knock down ability perhaps 3 to 5 at a time)

Arguably 75 yards is about as much as you would need to get away, assuming you still had your vehicle and it was drivable. However it is possible that you could need further defensive capability. I would really consider my next weapon suggestion an offensive weapon, but could see it's defensive possibilities. The long rifle. After doing some research it seems the best, cheapest long rifle is the same one that many police department snipers use, the Remington Model 700. It's 40 year old design hasn't changed much but it is a highly accurate out of the box weapon. Something like a 1/2 inch pattern at 100 yards.

http://securtex.cz/folder01/remington_700_223_I.jpg

5. Sniper Rifle .308 (0 to 500 yards longer kill shots possible)

I have taken care of 1 through 4 and I feel that I am well enough covered in case of an emergency.

I understand that you may feel you would rather just take your chances and hope people will behave themselves. That you may actually be able to help people along the way and not selfishly strand them there to be injured or die. That is of course your choice. I am not a survivalist. I do not wish for bad things to happen so I can go out and use some of these toys. The opposite is true. I hope they turn out to be a waste of money. I only have them to protect myself and my family. Sure they are fun to play with, but that lasts a few days then they just sit in the safe gathering dust.

Jeep parts, computer stuff, electronics in general are much more fun on a daily basis.

I only mention this so that if you haven't already thought of this, you start. I also mention it because if you were concerned that your friends, wife, husband, boyfriend, girlfriend, or children might think you are crazy for doing this, well if something bad happens there are going to be people that are prepared or not prepared. The government will not help you. Given enough time they may, but what will your situation be until that time? Perhaps your time will expire before they can help.

Please keep in mind that if you do go the route of stocking up on defensive weapons that far more relatives are killed with guns than BAD guys. You have to be very careful with these weapons. Even the knife could accidentally deliver a fatal blow by just falling on it. It's a huge responsibility, but so is your life, and the life of your family.

Ultimately you have to weigh what level of protection your feel comfortable with.

Other things to consider. Multiple weapons so that everyone in the Jeep has the ability to protect themselves, assist you, or take over should you not be able to continue. A way to carry ammo. Holster for your pistol, back up weapon. A tactical vest is great to carry additional clips, second full sized pistol, radio, etc... Some good heavy boots so you don't have to worry about where you are stepping during a retreat, or attack.

I recommend getting everything in black. Being seen with your bright shinny AK-47 might help with deterrence, however it also makes you a great target for those that are also armed. If someone is trying to take your Jeep an all black AK-47 will be VERY visible to them in most lighting conditions, and if not the first round that is fired will most likely blind them for several seconds. The won't be able to see or hear for 5 seconds at least.

Now, thankfully, I've never been in a situation like this. Fighting for my life, and protecting my family. So I can't claim that any of this information is based on experience. Even though I've thought about all this stuff, I could be wrong, or not considered "unintended consequences". That is the beauty of sharing ideas with people, to get other points of view.

So please tell me what you think. Tell me where I am wrong, or what I have missed. The whole idea of this is to be prepared. :patriot:

XJ Rat
08-13-2010, 12:43 PM
Do not pull it unless you plan to use it. Threatening with a gun usually gets you in deeper real quick.
The person who fires first is usually the winner.
Surprise is your best friend. Be prepared to fire through your jacket/shirt.
If your down to the knife, things are probably at the hopeless point.
Remember, it is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

Most gun battles happen within 7 yards. If you need something beyond 50 yards better have a fire team of Marines with you.

Your demeanor will make a big difference in the beginning of an altercation, when your opponent is sizing you up. Talk with authority and do not show any fear...agressors will back down if they think the advesary will put up a good fight.

Think of your plan ahead of time. During the situation is not the time to think about what you are going to do. Your actions should be well rehearsed and automatic.

Mudderoy
08-13-2010, 12:54 PM
Do not pull it unless you plan to use it. Threatening with a gun usually gets you in deeper real quick.
The person who fires first is usually the winner.
Surprise is your best friend. Be prepared to fire through your jacket/shirt.
If your down to the knife, things are probably at the hopeless point.
Remember, it is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

Most gun battles happen within 7 yards. If you need something beyond 50 yards better have a fire team of Marines with you.

Your demeanor will make a big difference in the beginning of an altercation, when your opponent is sizing you up. Talk with authority and do not show any fear...agressors will back down if they think the advesary will put up a good fight.

Think of your plan ahead of time. During the situation is not the time to think about what you are going to do. Your actions should be well rehearsed and automatic.

Excellent and thank you for mentioning that first one especially. I meant to include that. Never pull a gun thinking you will not use it. You may hesitate just long enough to find out they have their own, or someone off to your side has one that is now being used on you.

Also, and I preach this to my wife and kids. Never NEVER put your finger on the trigger until you are ready to FIRE the weapon.

4.3LXJ
08-13-2010, 12:59 PM
Don't even pull it unless you are ready to instantly pull that trigger.

xj4life2
08-13-2010, 04:26 PM
Not to be a nay sayer but my first question would be have you ever been in a fire fight ? Pulled a gun with the intention of taking a life ? This is what you have to concider every time, are you ready to end a life ? is the use of deadly force nessary ? Can you live with this decision for the rest of your life ? I can say that it sounds easy and all that and have heard on more than one occasion " no problem I would waste them in a heartbeat" only to see that person freeze up had it not been a training exersize he would have been dead. Even the toughest of tough will freeze or fire aimlessly into the blue prehaps killing a innocent. My recomendation would be to take a combat course and a home safety course if you have not. A live fire combat is the best (no they don't really shoot at you now days ) but you can here the incomming fire. other that i will tell you this , If I pull my gun, somebody will be dead. I never have and never will take it lightly.

Indiana Jeep
08-13-2010, 05:15 PM
Also as far as means of escape, planning evacuation routes ahead of time is invaluable. Choose a about 3 routes that you can take. You can almost guarantee that major highways and common off road sites will be jammed with traffic, both vehicle and foot. And not just looking on a map, if you have time make a day trip out of driving them to see the route and landmarks. Get a little familiar with where you would be going as well as destinations.

TeXJ
08-14-2010, 09:51 AM
I'd say just buy a small hellocopter and fly over them all, on a more serious note take the family out target practicing. And find family friends that u can join forces, I'd think it's better to be In a group than with just one family. Also don't forget about already having a 72hr kit that is ready to grab and go

XJ4IV
08-15-2010, 10:34 PM
Also as far as means of escape, planning evacuation routes ahead of time is invaluable. Choose a about 3 routes that you can take. You can almost guarantee that major highways and common off road sites will be jammed with traffic, both vehicle and foot. And not just looking on a map, if you have time make a day trip out of driving them to see the route and landmarks. Get a little familiar with where you would be going as well as destinations.

I too was in the evacuation of Katrinaand I drove a lifted dodge durango, Being that NOBODY was heading south and EVERYONE was heading north they DPS opened southbound side for northbound drivers and caled it Contraflow, You say find another less traveled route and sadly when I went I did take the back roads and made iit to huntsville in standard time but when I looked back after reaching my destination it was packed and stopped up as well. I know that in this situation us 4wheel drive folks are really the ones most prepared for the situation and I always look forward to helping out anyway I can DURING the situation but if it came down to some guy wanting to carjack my jeep from me and I was in escape mode... I wouldnt hesitate to run his *** over and not look back

I know it sounds odd but some of us north texas guys used to go out in the toreential rain and help people out either out of a flooded car or to pull them across a deep area without hurting their vehicles, It was kind of a rush and 90% of the time the people we rescued would give us some cash... but again thats a texan for you!

default83
08-16-2010, 08:11 AM
I too was in the evacuation of Katrinaand I drove a lifted dodge durango, Being that NOBODY was heading south and EVERYONE was heading north they DPS opened southbound side for northbound drivers and caled it Contraflow, You say find another less traveled route and sadly when I went I did take the back roads and made iit to huntsville in standard time but when I looked back after reaching my destination it was packed and stopped up as well. I know that in this situation us 4wheel drive folks are really the ones most prepared for the situation and I always look forward to helping out anyway I can DURING the situation but if it came down to some guy wanting to carjack my jeep from me and I was in escape mode... I wouldnt hesitate to run his *** over and not look back

I know it sounds odd but some of us north texas guys used to go out in the toreential rain and help people out either out of a flooded car or to pull them across a deep area without hurting their vehicles, It was kind of a rush and 90% of the time the people we rescued would give us some cash... but again thats a texan for you!


word on helping people, i stayed put during rita, however there was so much traffic in the town i was living in it was insane, my buddy worked at a napa and we opened the store to get a guy an alternator for his car so him and his family werent stuck, we even installed it for em.

Hurricanes are horrible, and when you stack millions of people trying to get out at one time its unbelivabe, i am extremely glad i have my jeep, and i agree w/ the above about finding your route, not just on a map, there are several places i know i can get out, wether it be on road or off, i have many options and its a good feeling knowing i can hop in my jeep and go pretty much anywhere i point it.

ice_cold
08-25-2010, 02:58 PM
Interesting read. Up here snow is our nemesis, flooding is odd, tornadoes, little more in recent years, but not much. Its the winter blizzard and -40c that hits us.
On your scenario...I have revolvers, simple to use, not complicated ( its the apocalypse remember). Rifles, love the Remington 700 have one set up for long range. But a 50 cal Browning set up for sniping will keep your home safe once you get away from "civilization". SHOTGUN! ultimate Zombie stopper...and reloading is easy.
Where to go when it all fails in the world...I am mountain bound...never see zombies in the winter! I have routes programed into all the GPS units to get to the "safe" points for family and close friends. As for a vehicle...anything 4x4 and hopefully diesel. Easier to make your own fuel in the apocalyptic world. Need snow mobiles as well, or quads. Just have to get my cabin in the mountains and all will be good...it has a stock pile of ammunition, and material to make my own re-loads, plus food to feed 20 for one year. Have a well and a purification system. Power is solar and wind.
Have I been thinking about this, nope..just how things have evolved. Got snowed in once for 2 weeks in the middle of August! Figure if the world goes to hell in a hand basket...if I cant get out, they can't get in!

Other than that...I have no plans.. ;)

ice_cold
08-25-2010, 03:03 PM
As a aside..this is my choice of the most excellent sniper weapon/system:
http://www.cheytac.com/Products/408M200Interventionimg.asp

Mudderoy
08-25-2010, 03:07 PM
As a aside..this is my choice of the most excellent sniper weapon/system:
http://www.cheytac.com/Products/408M200Interventionimg.asp

Yeah I think that is the one I saw on sat/cable/uverse. It's nice but that Remington 700 would be around $1000 decked out, with a modest scope. I bet that system is $5k to $20k.

Mudderoy
08-25-2010, 03:21 PM
Interesting read. Up here snow is our nemesis, flooding is odd, tornadoes, little more in recent years, but not much. Its the winter blizzard and -40c that hits us.
On your scenario...I have revolvers, simple to use, not complicated ( its the apocalypse remember). Rifles, love the Remington 700 have one set up for long range. But a 50 cal Browning set up for sniping will keep your home safe once you get away from "civilization". SHOTGUN! ultimate Zombie stopper...and reloading is easy.
Where to go when it all fails in the world...I am mountain bound...never see zombies in the winter! I have routes programed into all the GPS units to get to the "safe" points for family and close friends. As for a vehicle...anything 4x4 and hopefully diesel. Easier to make your own fuel in the apocalyptic world. Need snow mobiles as well, or quads. Just have to get my cabin in the mountains and all will be good...it has a stock pile of ammunition, and material to make my own re-loads, plus food to feed 20 for one year. Have a well and a purification system. Power is solar and wind.
Have I been thinking about this, nope..just how things have evolved. Got snowed in once for 2 weeks in the middle of August! Figure if the world goes to hell in a hand basket...if I cant get out, they can't get in!

Other than that...I have no plans.. ;)

Hmmm I missed this one...

I agree with the revolver, especially for woman, problem I have is paying the same price for a revolver as a cool auto! :smiley-laughing021:
Yeah a diesel would be nice.

ice_cold
08-25-2010, 03:43 PM
True, I have Glocks and Desert Eagles. But every now and then, the S&W .357 is soooo sweeet! Till the recoil smacks you between the eyes because you got lazy...lol
As for sniper, I like long range competition, my current set up is based on this bad boy:
http://www.accuracyinternational.com/AW50.php

Works for me, also why I need a locker in the Jeep. Canadian laws are a little tight compared to American when it comes to high power or hand guns.

Mudderoy
08-25-2010, 03:53 PM
True, I have Glocks and Desert Eagles. But every now and then, the S&W .357 is soooo sweeet! Till the recoil smacks you between the eyes because you got lazy...lol
As for sniper, I like long range competition, my current set up is based on this bad boy:
http://www.accuracyinternational.com/AW50.php

Works for me, also why I need a locker in the Jeep. Canadian laws are a little tight compared to American when it comes to high power or hand guns.

I'd love to have a Barrett .50 and compete.

TeXJ
08-25-2010, 06:18 PM
Interesting read. Up here snow is our nemesis, flooding is odd, tornadoes, little more in recent years, but not much. Its the winter blizzard and -40c that hits us.
On your scenario...I have revolvers, simple to use, not complicated ( its the apocalypse remember). Rifles, love the Remington 700 have one set up for long range. But a 50 cal Browning set up for sniping will keep your home safe once you get away from "civilization". SHOTGUN! ultimate Zombie stopper...and reloading is easy.
Where to go when it all fails in the world...I am mountain bound...never see zombies in the winter! I have routes programed into all the GPS units to get to the "safe" points for family and close friends. As for a vehicle...anything 4x4 and hopefully diesel. Easier to make your own fuel in the apocalyptic world. Need snow mobiles as well, or quads. Just have to get my cabin in the mountains and all will be good...it has a stock pile of ammunition, and material to make my own re-loads, plus food to feed 20 for one year. Have a well and a purification system. Power is solar and wind.
Have I been thinking about this, nope..just how things have evolved. Got snowed in once for 2 weeks in the middle of August! Figure if the world goes to hell in a hand basket...if I cant get out, they can't get in!

Other than that...I have no plans.. ;)

Sounds like you need to start... :rotfl2:

cantab27
09-04-2010, 10:57 PM
maybe i should have read this a couple of days ago .......
:cool: