Death Wobble (Don don don...)

[Starry Jeep]

Okay so in the title as you see I am having Death Wobble..
So once I put in my 3" lift kit I now have Death Wobble. Extreamly violent! I nearly shit myself when it happened. :shocker: lol
So to repair?
I have tighted and lock-tight'ed my bolt on (what was loose)
I'm not sure what they are called so I found a picture and circled the general area where this bolt is. (Not my jeep in the pic)http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u197/Stars_n_moons09/front_axle.jpg

I have also fixed my u-joints and it still shakes. So tomorrow morning I'm going to get a alignment. But if it does not fix it do anyone have any ideas?

[toebee97]

I'm getting ready to go 3" too, the prospect of death wobble is the only thing stopping me. I've heard alot about it, but not alot on how to fix it. It would be good to know if there is a way to prevent it.

[default83]

DW is a hell of a drug :rotfl2:


tighten EVERYTHING on your front end, track bars, sway bars, control arms, check your ball joints, tie rods, run through every bolt and nut that has to do with suspension.

i guess im lucky ive never had it, my control arms are even usually loose and still nothing.

also make sure that the tracbar did not waller out the hole that the bolt goes through, i have seen that before.

[Starry Jeep]

I have tighten everything! =[
I'm even looking for shinny areas where there could be play...

[Starry Jeep]

Also. No one has ever said a thing to me about this.. =\
Never heard about it even once.

[default83]

Also. No one has ever said a thing to me about this.. =\
Never heard about it even once.

yup, not something known unless your online looking for it.

try rebalancing/rotating tires. check lugnuts.

when i say EVERYTHING i mean EVERYTHING lol

there is no "one" answer to this question, its a list of about 30 things that it could be, its a PITA but it can be fixed.

also do you have an adjustable trackbar or did you just relocate it?

[reddragon72]

You can tighten everything till your blue in the face and that wont fix the issue.

The three things that cause DW is this. Your brakes are just ever so slightly out of wack, mainly due to people replacing the pads and not turning the rotors. Well rotors warp and that causes the pads to rub on the rotors causing them to heat up. Long story short you get warped rotors. This in turn causes you rotor and tire to wobble just tad and also causes your tire to slow in one or more spots due to the pads rubbing on the warped spot. This in turn causes tire wear in only the warped rotor locations. Unfortunately you cannot fix this once the tire is unevenly worn.

Now that you have thrown a lift on you jeep you have inadvertently changed the caster angle. This change now causes your tire to want to push in. This pushing in is now varied by the fact that your tires have an odd pattern to them(you cannot see it but a balance machine will show it). So now that you travel down the road, with your tire contact to the road rotating at a high speed, and the pattern that is warn into your tire starts to cause the front end to shake due to the improper caster causing the tires to push inward starting the osculating pattern. This is how DW occurs and I don't care who says what, this is it and it took me forever to figure it out.

See the problem is that everyone points there finger towards 50 different things when it has been shown on every jeep/truck/off-road site what the real issue it. Tire wear. If you tire is warn then you have a pattern that causes the tire to move from toe in to toe out while traveling down the road. That pattern is enhanced when you change the caster putting more force on the pattern. When I was looking for info on all the sites and how to fix it I noticed two things. One was people rotating or getting new tires it went away but eventually came back. Also people who adjusted caster it went away but left them with a wobble at freeway speeds.

So here is what you do. Take your tire and rotate the tire two lugs. What I mean is take a marker and mark a lug and lug hole. Now rotate the tire forward two lugs(passenger side) and two lugs revers on the drivers(both sides should be rotated clockwise two lugs) tighten it back down and see if the DW gets better or worse. My bet is that it will get better. If there is a change, there should be, go and have all your tires rotated and balanced, and put on new good quality rotors and brake pads, and clean up the brakes completely.

And remember a shimmy or a shake is not DW but is the remnants of it.

[xj4life2]

Ok here we go ' Death Wobble is caused by the track bar fighting agains the will of the axle to travel left and right. In almost all cases of death wobble we have seen (avg 2 a week) it is either a loose track bar, worn bushings or tierod end at frame mount or loose frame mount, we have even seen the frame mount being ripped away from from the sub frame. First did you replace the track bar on the new lift? If not you should, but assuming you didn't check where it mounts to the axel is it tight, bushings good ? ok lets say they are now follow the bar up to the top mount . Stock this is a tie rod end , how does it look and while your there check the mount for looseness and the sub frame for cracks around it. Next have someone in the jeep and you underneath it have them go lock to lock on the steering wheel, does the track bar move,jump anything ? I'm sure that by this time you will have found it , if not lastly check the frame to outside of tire measurement one side should be out further than the other if it is and everything else is good , you need a longer track bar the axle should measure the same distance on both sides.I would highly recomend a adj track bar with a heim joint at the top end. after you have all this accomplished make sure you have a good steering stab on the rig. By the way the picture you have is the lower or axle connection of the track bar. Hope this helps !!!
Mark

[Mudderoy]

Do out of balance wheels/tires act like death wobble, cause death wobble, or none of the above?

Oh and I never considered the slight wobble you get at a specific speed to be death wobble, just annoying. Death wobble, from my experience with my 1983 Chevy Truck on 36's I thought I was going to DIE! rofl.

[xj4life2]

Do out of balance wheels/tires act like death wobble, cause death wobble, or none of the above?

Oh and I never considered the slight wobble you get at a specific speed to be death wobble, just annoying. Death wobble, from my experience with my 1983 Chevy Truck on 36's I thought I was going to DIE! rofl.

No they cause an annoying bounce in the front / rear end. death wobble is a voilent shakeing of the entire front ends caused by the axle fighting against itself to stay under the vehicle, the Track bar is designed to keep it under the rig and aligned at equil distance left to right. If you ever have death wobble you will know and the only way to stop it is to slowly apply the brakes and slow to a speed that it can control itself. Trust me you will want to stop and get the seat out of your @$$ cus you will be puckered up and holding on to anything you can.I have had speed wobble on a motorcycle not scare me as much as death wobble

[XJ4IV]

New and improved with photos...
I have had 4 jeeps and everyone had DW and THE BEST way to locate the culprit
is by having your buddy get in the driver seat with engine ON have your buddy turn the steering wheel left to right fairly fast to magnify the issue the range of turn should be from the 11 oclock position to the 1 oclock position basically think of the old tv shows where they show a guy driving... this is how your buddy should look!
While your buddy is doing his best impression of Barney Fife YOU the jeep operator/owner sit in front and examine EVERY SINGLE bolt that connects your front end together for ANY play... there should not be a single bit of play in ANY bolt. on the tierod ends it is normal for the ROD to pivot but look at the nut make sure THAT is not moving.
Here is a pic of a wrangler steering setup... ours is exactly the same setup
I have located and circled all the bolts and nuts to be tightened in bright green
You will also notice that the ends of the tierod are not visible from this pic... just follow the tierod to the rubber boot on each end and inspect those as well while your buddy is turning wheel back and forth... this inspection can last up to 10 minutes for a thorough inspection
Good luck and I hope you get it taken care of
http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo167/seivey/Front_Suspension-1.jpg

[ironmanandy]

Tires being out of balance is an absolute factor in death wobble. In most cases it is why it occurs the first time. After the first occurrence everything is sooooo beat up from the back and forth jolts that loose joints and bushings come into play.
Balance your tires, Make sure all joints are tight and mounting holes are round.
Get an old man emu steering dampener..... don't bother with anything else. It is the absolute stiffest available. and nitrogen charged.

make sure your caster angles are correct.
A-

[4.3LXJ]

The dreaded DW. All Jeep forums have lots of stuff on this as well as Dodge and Ford forums. So why does lifting a Jeep give you death wobble? Two things. First there is a change in alignment. The tires will be toed in when lifted. This is fixable with $20 at the alignment shop. The second is the change in castor. As the axle is lowered, it rotates forward. This changes the forces that the tires exert on each other and the steering components. Then, as a result the components can start doing things they wouldn't do before due to wear in them. The best way to eliminate the DW is first to check the components for wear, especially the track bar bushing. Second, and this one is often over looked, adjust the steering box so it is tight. Third, make sure all tie rod ends are tight. Fourth, make sure the front tires are aligned properly. Then if that doesn't do it, invest in some adjustable upper and or lower control arms and set the castor angle properly and it will go away.

[Starry Jeep]

Ya. I know I have death wobble. I would tell people get in my car, your guaranteed to shit yourself. Im getting a new adjustable track bar Monday.

[default83]

Ya. I know I have death wobble. I would tell people get in my car, your guaranteed to shit yourself. Im getting a new adjustable track bar Monday.

i never relocated my front tracbar w/my lift(i couldnt get the bolt out lol)

i would inspect everything like it was mentioned before spending money, it could be easy as replacing a tie rod end.

[reddragon72]

Here is DW in action. As you can see the tires are osculating as the vehicle drives by. The axle will shack naturally as does the whole body of the vehicle, but a close look will show the tires "wiggling" and not setting in one spot while the axles shift. You know the people driving are used to the this by now to be willing to put themselves in the drivers seat during DW.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7cEOPYQFTs&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwiv23dLhMY&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wj9PNNChVm4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKp65KcEt_k&feature=related (in this one a guy in the comments says it was "fixed with new tires". But I like this vid because he had DW with three different trackbars so he ruled out the trackbar)

I say this because I had DW after my 3 inch lift and just kept it below 45. I did everything everyone said to do including new trackbar, tightened everything up again and again, most of my bolts now have 150+ pounds of torq on them and I still had DW. Then I was lucky enough to get brand new tires and boom my DW totally disappeared. fast forward 15,000 miles later on the same tires and I'm getting a bit of vibs up front. My brakes are starting to wear funny again(cheap rotors) and when stopping I can feel my rig kinda surg a little as it is stopping(even in neutral), and the vibs are slowly getting worse. So I'm about to do my brakes(good parts this time) and rotate and balance.

In my case, as with many others, my DW disappeared with new tires and brakes. And tightening everything almost 2 fold did nothing to the DW. I am just adding my two cents in here. Caster/brakes/tires those are the three that cause DW and everything else just lets it happen.

[Starry Jeep]

Ya. I know I got my wheels and tires balanced.

[msmoorenburg]

don't forget to check u-joints I just fixed a grand with DW he had no needles on one side and a wheel bearing going out. He replaced everything else minus one upper control arm

[reddragon72]

don't forget to check u-joints I just fixed a grand with DW he had no needles on one side and a wheel bearing going out. He replaced everything else minus one upper control arm

yes those axle joints can cause it, though it didn't on mine, and especially the wheel hub assembly(mine is just a shimmy). Anything that will allow your tire to move independently of the rest or force the tire to move, brakes the tire wearing unevenly and caster, will cause the whole shaking effect and then osculation occurs against the stabilizer and boom DW.

it is an un-tamable beast that can only be held back, but not eliminated.

[4.3LXJ]

.

it is an un-tamable beast that can only be held back, but not eliminated.

I disagree. If everything is as it is supposed to be, it won't be there. I have had it twice. The first time was on my test drive after installing my lift and high steer. A little more castor and an alignment and it was gone. The second time was after wheeling the track bar mount was loose on the frame. Tightened up four bolts and it was gone. It can be gotten rid of. But the biggest culprit for XJs is castor angle after lifting. It is the thing most often not taken into account.

[thetinman857]

You can tighten everything till your blue in the face and that wont fix the issue.

The three things that cause DW is this. Your brakes are just ever so slightly out of wack, mainly due to people replacing the pads and not turning the rotors. Well rotors warp and that causes the pads to rub on the rotors causing them to heat up. Long story short you get warped rotors. This in turn causes you rotor and tire to wobble just tad and also causes your tire to slow in one or more spots due to the pads rubbing on the warped spot. This in turn causes tire wear in only the warped rotor locations. Unfortunately you cannot fix this once the tire is unevenly worn.

Now that you have thrown a lift on you jeep you have inadvertently changed the caster angle. This change now causes your tire to want to push in. This pushing in is now varied by the fact that your tires have an odd pattern to them(you cannot see it but a balance machine will show it). So now that you travel down the road, with your tire contact to the road rotating at a high speed, and the pattern that is warn into your tire starts to cause the front end to shake due to the improper caster causing the tires to push inward starting the osculating pattern. This is how DW occurs and I don't care who says what, this is it and it took me forever to figure it out.

See the problem is that everyone points there finger towards 50 different things when it has been shown on every jeep/truck/off-road site what the real issue it. Tire wear. If you tire is warn then you have a pattern that causes the tire to move from toe in to toe out while traveling down the road. That pattern is enhanced when you change the caster putting more force on the pattern. When I was looking for info on all the sites and how to fix it I noticed two things. One was people rotating or getting new tires it went away but eventually came back. Also people who adjusted caster it went away but left them with a wobble at freeway speeds.

So here is what you do. Take your tire and rotate the tire two lugs. What I mean is take a marker and mark a lug and lug hole. Now rotate the tire forward two lugs(passenger side) and two lugs revers on the drivers(both sides should be rotated clockwise two lugs) tighten it back down and see if the DW gets better or worse. My bet is that it will get better. If there is a change, there should be, go and have all your tires rotated and balanced, and put on new good quality rotors and brake pads, and clean up the brakes completely.

And remember a shimmy or a shake is not DW but is the remnants of it.

....Take your tire and rotate the tire two lugs..... WTF, might be a cheap fix..

[thetinman857]

Okay so in the title as you see I am having Death Wobble..
So once I put in my 3" lift kit I now have Death Wobble. Extreamly violent! I nearly shit myself when it happened. :shocker: lol
So to repair?
I have tighted and lock-tight'ed my bolt on (what was loose)
I'm not sure what they are called so I found a picture and circled the general area where this bolt is. (Not my jeep in the pic)http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u197/Stars_n_moons09/front_axle.jpg

I have also fixed my u-joints and it still shakes. So tomorrow morning I'm going to get a alignment. But if it does not fix it do anyone have any ideas?


....adjustable lower control arms......worked fer me......

[vmotorman]

Sure wish the DW started in the summer, while I was riding the VFR. Now I have to make room in the garage for this project. Thanks for all the good info and pics!

[Weldmen]

Hello All,
I just had this happen to me in my 95 XJ. (3 inch lift) And yes a death wobble will scare the shat out of you doing 60 mph on the free way. Its like the front end is bouncing, my hood actually popped to the latch.
So your saying to check the bushings on the track bar, or (pan hand bar) correct?

[Mudderoy]

Hello All,
I just had this happen to me in my 95 XJ. (3 inch lift) And yes a death wobble will scare the shat out of you doing 60 mph on the free way. Its like the front end is bouncing, my hood actually popped to the latch.
So your saying to check the bushings on the track bar, or (pan hand bar) correct?

First clean the seats out. You don't want to smell all that while your fixing the problem.

[4.3LXJ]

First thing to do after what Muddy said is to have someone operate the steering wheel back and forth and see if there is movement you should not have at attachment point.

[Weldmen]

Ok seats are all cleaned up.. Well I took out the old angle meter and to my surprise I am positive on caster. Like 2*, so Gonna pick up some shims and get the front end aligned then go from there.

[PolarXJ]

:eek: WOW one of the joys of forums :) There is alot of info in the previous post, some true and some not. Good luck!

[Weldmen]

:eek: WOW one of the joys of forums :) There is allot of info in the previous post, some true and some not. Good luck!

So what are you saying? :stars: That getting the caster back to correct deg, isn't the fix. I think it did the trick for me. With the caster angle to far forward the tires are kind of skipping on the face or front of the tire. So it doesn't return to center, so for you are always fighting to keep the wheels straight. Even though toe in and out is correct the tires are always leaning forward.
I added 3/16 shims and am at 87.0* on the diff.

http://www.rqriley.com/images/fig-7.gif

[PolarXJ]

Sorry, my comment wasn't directed at you. Yes the caster angle needs to be brought back to the stock angle to prevent the tire hop that is associated with it, I'm amazed that your XJ behaved that way after a 3" lift install. Did you keep your stock arms when you lifted it?
CA bushings, tire balance, bad steering stabilizer, busted coil, bad shocks, bad unit bearings, bad ball joints, bad tie rod bushings, bad drag link bushings, out of round tire, pinion angle, toe in are all things that can cause death wobble.

[modestmar00xj]

thats some scary stuff i havent experenced DW yet and not looking foward too!

[teamwestoutdoors]

I solved my DW by getting on my creeper with a flashlight I rolled under the front end of my Jeep and just watched as my son turned the wheel back and forth for a good ten minutes. I looked for any loose joints or connections and found my problem was a loose bolt on my steering box. I have been golden ever since. on a side note, I was able to buy this jeep cheap because the previous owner got the DW and panicked.

[Mudderoy]

I solved my DW by getting on my creeper with a flashlight I rolled under the front end of my Jeep and just watched as my son turned the wheel back and forth for a good ten minutes. I looked for any loose joints or connections and found my problem was a loose bolt on my steering box. I have been golden ever since. on a side note, I was able to buy this jeep cheap because the previous owner got the DW and panicked.

I need to collect a series of death wobble fixes and put it all in one "sticky" thread. Thanks for the information!