Ironman4x4fab.com - Adjustable Upper Control Arms

[Mudderoy]

Well while I was sucking wind putting on my track bar yesterday I couldn't help but notice those sad looking OEM "stamped metal" upper control arms. I have future plans for long arms, but with all the improvements I am doing with better track bar, bigger tie rod, and replacing all the tie rod ends (3), it really seems silly to leave those stamped metal control arms there. So I just ordered a set of these bad boys!

Andy at ironman4x4fab.com (http://www.ironmanfab4x4.com/) has some nice adjustable uppers for $114.50 plus shipping.

http://ironman4x4fab.com/images/STD_FUCA.jpg

My luck is I'll get out there doing some off roading and I'd twist up the weakest part of the suspension. So for a little over $100 this is cheap insurance!

I'll let you know more about them along with install pics!

[ironmanandy]

Just to let you know that picture is even obsolete the U shaped end mounts are now made from 1/4" plate and the threaded end (frame side) is now made from .281 wall DOM.
We are upgrading all of our parts to make sure that we sell the toughest parts on the planet!
Thanks again
Andy

[Mudderoy]

Just to let you know that picture is even obsolete the U shaped end mounts are now made from 1/4" plate and the threaded end (frame side) is now made from .281 wall DOM.
We are upgrading all of our parts to make sure that we sell the toughest parts on the planet!
Thanks again
Andy

Hey, that's great news FOR ME! Yeah I'll post some pictures of them, right before I paint them RED. :smiley-laughing021:

[ironmanandy]

AWWWW ya goofball I coulda powdered them red for you
heh

[Mudderoy]

IRONMAN4X4 "product" In da house!!!

http://xjtalk.com/images/special/ironman1.jpg

http://xjtalk.com/images/special/ironman2.jpg

:patriot:

[XJ4IV]

lol I LOVE your setup at the house

[Mudderoy]

lol I LOVE your setup at the house

I'll show you the cameras Saturday. :thumbsup:

[Mudderoy]

AWWWW ya goofball I coulda powdered them red for you
heh

I figured you were kidding. rguinard reminded me of this post and I told him it wouldn't have been the right color red. I'm painting my front in parts factory red, PR4 color code. He was surprised that I was able to find the factory paint and that I knew the code by heart. :smiley-laughing021:

[Mudderoy]

So sad when the "brown" Santa leaves...

http://xjtalk.com/images/special/ironman3.jpg

BUT HE WILL RETURN AGAIN, and AGAIN, and AGAIN... :pee:

[Mudderoy]

Well here they are people! All I can say is WOW! These things are sturdy. My lower control arms may fail just from embarrassment. I suspect they will lose all confidence!

http://xjtalk.com/images/special/ironman4.jpg

I am very impressed with this product! Now to mount them, ahhh, on the Jeep. :patriot:

The powder coat on these are beautiful. It will be a shame that one one will really be able to see them.

Some one on one customer service...

<Mudderoy> I'm sure I'll figure it out but which end of the UCA go to the unibody and which end to the dana 30?
<ironmanandy> U goes to axle. put the grease fitting up.
<ironmanandy> Use ratchet straps from your bumper or frame to manipulate the axle to install easier
<ironmanandy> yeah the OEM bolts are really strong..... and a pain to get off. USE RATCHET STRAPS I promise it makes it so much easier

[4.3LXJ]

:eek: Wait, they are not red

[Mudderoy]

:eek: Wait, they are not red

Not yet. ;)

[Mudderoy]

I can't believe these BEEFY Upper Control Arms are only $114!

Here's the ad from Andy's site... CLICK ON IT TO SEE FULL SIZE.

http://xjtalk.com/images/special/ironman5.jpg (http://www.ironman4x4fab.com/Jeep_XJ_Control_Arms/XJ_FUCA.html)

[CT99XJ]

I saw some of these on a friend's rig the other day, and it made me want a pair. Looks like I now know what the next mod to my Jeep will be!

[Mudderoy]

I saw some of these on a friend's rig the other day, and it made me want a pair. Looks like I now know what the next mod to my Jeep will be!

lol yeah Andy (ironman4x4fab guy) wanted me to call him once I got them. He just wanted to make sure they got there and check to see if I had any questions. Which I did and we shot the shit for a little while. Great customer service. I called him about 7 pm too! No rush to get off the phone.

Now that I have a pair of his UCAs I can see why he's so confident they won't break. Like I told him the only way I could bend these things if if I drove over a IED (I think I told him IUD - DOH!). :smiley-laughing021:

When you order make sure you let Andy know xjtalk sent you. I just want him to know that we're a good spot to hang out. :D Oh and of course write up what you got, how you liked it etc... love the reviews here.

[CT99XJ]

Considering the prices, I was thinking of getting the uppers to eliminate the weak point in my front setup, then saving for the radius arms and use a Clayton crossmember a buddy of mine has laying around. I've heard a lot of good things about the quality and strength of these arms as well- when I looked at them, they were beefy as hell and had a LOT of adjustability on the threads.

[Mudderoy]

Considering the prices, I was thinking of getting the uppers to eliminate the weak point in my front setup, then saving for the radius arms and use a Clayton crossmember a buddy of mine has laying around. I've heard a lot of good things about the quality and strength of these arms as well- when I looked at them, they were beefy as hell and had a LOT of adjustability on the threads.

When I was taking the pictures last night I wanted to take one of the UCAs a part to show the thickness of the arm. I unscrewed and unscrewed and unscrewed. I took two breaks and a nap. I finally got it off. :smiley-laughing021:

[reddragon72]

lol yeah Andy (ironman4x4fab guy) wanted me to call him once I got them. He just wanted to make sure they got there and check to see if I had any questions. Which I did and we shot the shit for a little while. Great customer service. I called him about 7 pm too! No rush to get off the phone.

Now that I have a pair of his UCAs I can see why he's so confident they won't break. Like I told him the only way I could bend these things if if I drove over a IED (I think I told him IUD - DOH!). :smiley-laughing021:

When you order make sure you let Andy know xjtalk sent you. I just want him to know that we're a good spot to hang out. :D Oh and of course write up what you got, how you liked it etc... love the reviews here.

I'm shooting for ordering the shackles on the 15th or the 1st. If I do I'll let you know that I did and then what I think of them. I love the micro adjustments that all his parts have in them to tweak your setup perfectly!

[CT99XJ]

I love the micro adjustments that all his parts have in them to tweak your setup perfectly!

This is exactly what drew me to his products over anything else. In the market for a new track bar, and his is beefier and less expensive than some out there...

[Mudderoy]

http://xjtalk.com/images/special/ironman7.jpg

[Mudderoy]

So I was reading something about upper and lower control arms. It said that if you lift your Jeep and you replace the lower control arms but not the upper the axle is rotated down, increasing the pinion angle.

I assume this is why Rough Country includes a set of fixed lower control arms. I further assume they are longer than stock to maintain the axle placement relative to the wheel well. Since the upper control arms are still stock, does this mean that the down angle of the axle (pinion) is increased?

My point is this, when installing the upper control arms should I make them longer than the stock arms to compensate for the increased angle?

Perhaps I just need to check the angle and adjust them for the proper angle.

If so my next question would be, "What is the proper angle?" I feel a 4.3LXJ answer coming. :patriot:

[rguignard]

tony i remember andy saying that your upper arms should be 3/4 inch shorter than the lower arms :thumbsup:

[4.3LXJ]

I feel a 4.3LXJ answer coming. :patriot:

So how did you know?

What really matters here are two things. Castor and pinion angle. Generally speaking, the pinion angle is not a factor on high pinion diffs. What happens is that when you drop the axle, the castor angle becomes more positive. That is just the way the geometry works out. Generally, if you buy a good complete lift, then they provide longer upper control arms and possibly for higher lifts longer lower arms as well to try to maintain the castor angle at the new height. So, my answer is to check the castor with an angle finder first and if it is 5-7° just match the length on the old upper arm. But if less, shorten it up and aim for that. Then look at the pinion angle compared to the drive shaft angle. They should be within about 3° of each other. If not, then there might be some driveline vibes and you will have to settle for less castor. I have about 3° difference on mine without any vibes.

[Mudderoy]

So how did you know?

What really matters here are two things. Castor and pinion angle. Generally speaking, the pinion angle is not a factor on high pinion diffs. What happens is that when you drop the axle, the castor angle becomes more positive. That is just the way the geometry works out. Generally, if you buy a good complete lift, then they provide longer upper control arms and possibly for higher lifts longer lower arms as well to try to maintain the castor angle at the new height. So, my answer is to check the castor with an angle finder first and if it is 5-7° just match the length on the old upper arm. But if less, shorten it up and aim for that. Then look at the pinion angle compared to the drive shaft angle. They should be within about 3° of each other. If not, then there might be some driveline vibes and you will have to settle for less castor. I have about 3° difference on mine without any vibes.

Ok I'm going to go look up how to measure castor angle.

Oh I had it aligned the day the lift, wheels and tires were installed. One would HOPE that they put in or took out the proper shims on the lower control arms.

[4.3LXJ]

Park it on a level surface. Pull a front tire and place an angle finder on the top surface of the upper ball joint.

Muddy, we don't have that type of adjustment like a good old Chevy. We do it by having adjustable control arms. Most alignment shops only check toe in on our rigs because that is all that is adjustable.

[XJ4IV]

Mine has shims on the lower frame side... if you look underneath the frame box you MIGHT see a little shim in there... mine was like 1/16th inch but it WAS there

[ironmanandy]

Ya'll Crack me up, Castor is a funny monster. The behavior of your tires has a lot to do with your drive ability as well. I have found through the last few years that most guys like the 3/4 " shorter uppers than lowers no matter what the length. It tends to be a good balance between Ideal caster and pinion. This also goes for ZJ and TJ models as well with the Low pinion because their control arms and mounting locations have different lengths but the same rules apply.
When you buy a basic lift kit with only lower arms they tend to be only 1/4" longer at most. This allows for the caster to be set back enough to drive.... not well but drive. We have found, Again, moving the entire axle forward 1/2",or more, (even on a 3 inch lift) helps get the springs straight and drives sooooo so much better. I use the 3/4" shorter UCA dimension as a starting point only. Most folks leave it that way and it works great. Its only a suggestion. But I have had tons of folks call me back and say "It drives like a Dream! etc."

[Mudderoy]

Ya'll Crack me up, Castor is a funny monster. The behavior of your tires has a lot to do with your drive ability as well. I have found through the last few years that most guys like the 3/4 " shorter uppers than lowers no matter what the length. It tends to be a good balance between Ideal caster and pinion. This also goes for ZJ and TJ models as well with the Low pinion because their control arms and mounting locations have different lengths but the same rules apply.
When you buy a basic lift kit with only lower arms they tend to be only 1/4" longer at most. This allows for the caster to be set back enough to drive.... not well but drive. We have found, Again, moving the entire axle forward 1/2",or more, (even on a 3 inch lift) helps get the springs straight and drives sooooo so much better. I use the 3/4" shorter UCA dimension as a starting point only. Most folks leave it that way and it works great. Its only a suggestion. But I have had tons of folks call me back and say "It drives like a Dream! etc."

I'd like to understand more. Mine drives better now than it did before the lift. How does the 3/4" shorter on the UCA's improve the drive?

[reddragon72]

I have a couple pennies here. Remove the shims. I read in multiple places and talked to a few other XJ owners and when doing a lift with adjustable lower control arms remove the shims and then do your adjustments. The shims are only in there to adjust the fixed factory lowers and are actually a hindrance with adjustable lowers. And as Andy said I will be getting adjustable uppers so I can move the front axle forward to it's original plane with the springs for better on road driving.

[4.3LXJ]

I'd like to understand more. Mine drives better now than it did before the lift. How does the 3/4" shorter on the UCA's improve the drive?

Muddy, visualize how your Cs and knuckles are set up. As you tilt the axle housing back say 90* you can see that the weight of the vehicle is pushing the tires to want to turn towards each other. If it wasn't for the tie rod, the tires would be turned completely toward each other. If anything was loose, the entire weight of the vehicle would act to force the tires to stay pushed together with equal force and tend to keep them in a straight position with the forces equalized. Now with the axle only tipped back a few degrees, the forces are much less, but still doing the same thing. So with say 5-8* there is forces acting to keep the wheels straight and so the vehicle drives straight. But with the axle tipped forward, the wheels will be pushed apart. If anything is loose, then the vehicle will become towed out and want to dive to either side. When this happens, death wobble can occur easily because the wheels want to dive to either side anyway.

[cubsin2079]

I have come accross this chart before on other forums.
http://www.yuccaman.com/jeep/re_db.html I am interested in this also as I am definetly ordering the upper and lower CAs with the johnny joints.

[Mudderoy]

And then they were red...

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_b0ViaGso2Ko/TEEAvdy2e1I/AAAAAAAAAVI/IOXyaXdtAXs/s640/2010-07-16%2019.59.57.jpg

[Mudderoy]

Passenger side in...

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_b0ViaGso2Ko/TEEVuKPFTrI/AAAAAAAAAVU/q0nrdn9VuZU/s800/2010-07-16%2021.23.08.jpg

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_b0ViaGso2Ko/TEEV_XW4xwI/AAAAAAAAAVY/J-aVP4pNt-E/s800/2010-07-16%2021.24.05.jpg

Driver's side...

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_b0ViaGso2Ko/TEErcPRYxsI/AAAAAAAAAVc/NgSVSTFFHI4/s800/2010-07-16%2022.58.02.jpg

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_b0ViaGso2Ko/TEErkFKwP6I/AAAAAAAAAVg/3XWlaZlaBLw/s800/2010-07-16%2022.57.45.jpg

And working with mechnics gloves really does keep your hands clean!

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_b0ViaGso2Ko/TEEs-ww7UqI/AAAAAAAAAVo/iAQFkKhNWkw/s800/2010-07-16%2023.01.35.jpg

The bushings are CRAP on the Dana 30! I'll be pulling the uppers off the Dana 30 soon to replace them.

[cantab27]

nice work ,

[cantab27]

so them there arms would stop this sort of thing ???:thumbsup:
http://i469.photobucket.com/albums/rr52/cantab27/bent1.jpg

[Mudderoy]

so them there arms would stop this sort of thing ???:thumbsup:
http://i469.photobucket.com/albums/rr52/cantab27/bent1.jpg

Wow!

[ironmanandy]

I'm glad to see you got them in ok.
Let me know how she rides
Andy

[drakan1908]

so them there arms would stop this sort of thing ???:thumbsup:
http://i469.photobucket.com/albums/rr52/cantab27/bent1.jpg

:shocker: Well theres your problem.

[Mudderoy]

I'm glad to see you got them in ok.
Let me know how she rides
Andy

Well the bushing was worn out on the passenger UCA at the unibody. The bushing was WORSE on the Dana 30 on the drivers UCA. So I need to replace the Dana 30 upper control arm bushings. I would imagine that this would effect the castor.

With EVERTHING new with the exception of the joints on the knuckles and the steering box it drives pretty tight! It drove fine before, so now it's like uber compared to just fine. :smiley-laughing021:

[4.3LXJ]

Nothing like new red parts. :D

[DETOURS]

I cant believe you wore a sweater during the install.........:rotfl2:

[DETOURS]

I'd just like to add, those uppers are a sweet deal at 114.00.