Mudderoy wannabe

[SACHEROKEE]

Hi All, ok weve ll seem Muderoys awsome jeep, yes, even here is South Africa (your jeep is qute famous mate). Parts and information is freely available to you guys in the states, but here in SA, parts are extremely scarce, and information....well......far and few between.
There are a few jeeps on the net like yours Mudderoy :) different colours etc and they all eem to have the same winning combination....a 4.5" lift running on 32" tyres. Ive always had a vision of what i would like to drive, and the XJ was it, raised with nice fat rubber. On a church salary to create that vision, well, it seemed more like a dream. Then one day the tax man paid some money out (a miracle in itself) and I suddenly had some cash. I saw my jeep for sale and bought her straight away.
Ive had her for 2 years now, and with any old car, you pick up all the little problems that the previous owner got rid of by selling her :)
Before I give you the run down of what she has, let me explain my vision. Well its easy, to have a cool looking jeep, raised, on bigger than noral rubber. I am not into wheeling, crawling etc as she is my daily runner, yes I go into the bush, but thats camping or game farms etc, but nothing extreme. Not because I dont want to, but because the wife and kids wont, and I dont have the cash to fix it should it break :sad0147:. So yes its pretty much a cosmetic thing I guess.

[SACHEROKEE]

Ok, now you know what im aiming for, let me tell you what I have inherited.
Ive tried to check vin numbers etc etc, but I think the previous owner changed alot.
I know the previous owner towed a caravan alot with her though.
BODY
On the back it says 4.0 High Output, shes got a "LIMITED" sticker on the one side, and a "SE" sticker under the snorkel. She has fullhouse trimming, ie, leather seats, electric everything, colour coded trimming and bumpers, so im guesing she is a LIMITED? I do know the vin no says she is a 95.
SUSPENSION
She has a viagra suspension.......extremely hard! Almost no comfort to speak of, I feel every bump in the road. I can load her heavy for holiday trips and the suspension does not budge or sag AT ALL!
I looked under her skirt and found she has 5 leaves instead of 4 (AAL?) at the back, with a 1" shackle. Nothing else. In the front she has no spacers, but the coils look like they have been changed (what coils they are, I have no idea). Some clever dick painted the bottom black so the shocks are painted too, I have no idea what they are either. Allround she stands just over 1" above stock.
TYRES
She has 235/75/15 Coopers on, but my spare has a BFG 30x9.5
The rimms have been changed and they seem to be slightly wider than normal, ive seen them called "deep dish" on another site before, but I have no idea how wider than normal they are. My spare has a stock rim.

[SACHEROKEE]

Forum wont let me upload pics :(
Nomatter what I do it says "exceeded forum quota by.....(the exact amount of bytes the pic is)"

[Mudderoy]

Forum wont let me upload pics :(
Nomatter what I do it says "exceeded forum quota by.....(the exact amount of bytes the pic is)"

I sent you a PM about how to post pictures.

[Mudderoy]

Ok, now you know what im aiming for, let me tell you what I have inherited.
Ive tried to check vin numbers etc etc, but I think the previous owner changed alot.
I know the previous owner towed a caravan alot with her though.
BODY
On the back it says 4.0 High Output, shes got a "LIMITED" sticker on the one side, and a "SE" sticker under the snorkel. She has fullhouse trimming, ie, leather seats, electric everything, colour coded trimming and bumpers, so im guesing she is a LIMITED? I do know the vin no says she is a 95.
SUSPENSION
She has a viagra suspension.......extremely hard! Almost no comfort to speak of, I feel every bump in the road. I can load her heavy for holiday trips and the suspension does not budge or sag AT ALL!
I looked under her skirt and found she has 5 leaves instead of 4 (AAL?) at the back, with a 1" shackle. Nothing else. In the front she has no spacers, but the coils look like they have been changed (what coils they are, I have no idea). Some clever dick painted the bottom black so the shocks are painted too, I have no idea what they are either. Allround she stands just over 1" above stock.
TYRES
She has 235/75/15 Coopers on, but my spare has a BFG 30x9.5
The rimms have been changed and they seem to be slightly wider than normal, ive seen them called "deep dish" on another site before, but I have no idea how wider than normal they are. My spare has a stock rim.

First thank you very much on the compliments of my rig. When I got the 32" tires I knew then I was going to go with bigger tires, but I needed to get the wheel wells opened up more. Also I was fairly certain I would go with a higher lift, but I needed the SYE before I could do that, so what you are seeing now is the mid point.

I am planning 35" M/T tires and 6.5" of lift, if necessary for the tires. I have been told that I should be able to run 35" tires with the 4.5" lift. If that's the case then I'll stick with the 4.5" lift.

As for your rig I would say the first thing you need to do is establish what you have. I would get the VIN number and send Chrysler a message asking them for the build sheet. Of course I am only assuming that they have those for any Jeep built world wide. After you see what was original then you can start working out what's been changed.

I'm with you on the daily driver aspect. I am not overly concerned about mud, but rocks are not in it's future. Perhaps some trailered beater in the future, but this vehicle serves many purposes.

[4.3LXJ]

From your description, I am sure you have a Limited. That is the one with all the options. You may have a lift on it already, although quite a bit shy of 4.5". Measure the distance from the center of the front hub to the bottom of the flare and subtract 17.5". That will give you front lift. Do the same for the rear and subtract 17" for the rear lift. Then you can go from there.

[SACHEROKEE]

First thank you very much on the compliments of my rig. When I got the 32" tires I knew then I was going to go with bigger tires, but I needed to get the wheel wells opened up more. Also I was fairly certain I would go with a higher lift, but I needed the SYE before I could do that, so what you are seeing now is the mid point.

I am planning 35" M/T tires and 6.5" of lift, if necessary for the tires. I have been told that I should be able to run 35" tires with the 4.5" lift. If that's the case then I'll stick with the 4.5" lift.

As for your rig I would say the first thing you need to do is establish what you have. I would get the VIN number and send Chrysler a message asking them for the build sheet. Of course I am only assuming that they have those for any Jeep built world wide. After you see what was original then you can start working out what's been changed.

I'm with you on the daily driver aspect. I am not overly concerned about mud, but rocks are not in it's future. Perhaps some trailered beater in the future, but this vehicle serves many purposes.

Just the way she is at the moment is what im aiming for, so it will be whatever lift can acomodate the 32" rubber :) I definatly wont go bigger than that, tyres are extremely expensive here, as is fuel :)
Thanks for the pm on adding pics, ill give it a go.

[SACHEROKEE]

From your description, I am sure you have a Limited. That is the one with all the options. You may have a lift on it already, although quite a bit shy of 4.5". Measure the distance from the center of the front hub to the bottom of the flare and subtract 17.5". That will give you front lift. Do the same for the rear and subtract 17" for the rear lift. Then you can go from there.

I have measured, and ive looked under her skirts, she has 5 leaf's instead of 4, and what looks like a 1.75" shackle at the rear, extremely hard ride. In the front the only thing that looks newish are the coils, I can find no coil spacers.
All round she is 1" higher than stock..........Now the question is, what is the cheapest way to get her high enough to wear 32" rubber?
and what else will I have to change to get to 32" tyres, will I have to re-gear? or can stock still be ok?

[SACHEROKEE]

Ok let me try this.....here are the pics of my jeep as she stands....all ive changed is removed the pimple from her face and given her some decent air vents, and painted her toe nails black :)
http://i892.photobucket.com/albums/ac121/SACHEROKEE/Jeep9.jpg
http://i892.photobucket.com/albums/ac121/SACHEROKEE/jeep7.jpg
http://i892.photobucket.com/albums/ac121/SACHEROKEE/mags.jpg
http://i892.photobucket.com/albums/ac121/SACHEROKEE/blackrimms.jpg

[Mudderoy]

I see what you mean. The front lift looks almost stock where the rear appears to be lifted. Not a bad thing, but of course I'd rather have more tire body Clarence.

[SACHEROKEE]

I see what you mean. The front lift looks almost stock where the rear appears to be lifted. Not a bad thing, but of course I'd rather have more tire body Clarence.

Most definately :) Ok so how high do I have to go to put 32" on? and can I do it cheaply? ie with coil spacers, and rear shackles? Baring in mind she has a AAL and a 1.75" shackle, which gives her 1" above stock.

[Mudderoy]

Most definately :) Ok so how high do I have to go to put 32" on? and can I do it cheaply? ie with coil spacers, and rear shackles? Baring in mind she has a AAL and a 1.75" shackle, which gives her 1" above stock.

Well keep in mind I have a 1998, so it may be different on different year body styles (I think it is the same though). The 4.5" lift was enough to run 32" tires, but I did have to do some trimming within a couple of weeks of the lift with the tires. It would rub on the front during tight turns and especially if I was backing up and turning during minor flexing. All the trimming was the plastic stuff, so no metal cutting was necessary.

I have heard that spaces with coils are just the same as coils alone. I guess that would depend on how much spacer you were putting in there. Personally I would put more effort into doing the lift right in the front. The rear leaves will be more forgiving of compromise. With a little research you may find some coil springs for other vehicles that are common in your country that will give you the desired lift. Of course the other way you could go would be to trim the metal fenders back far enough and bump stop the suspension and put 32" tires in there with the lift you have.

[SACHEROKEE]

Of course the other way you could go would be to trim the metal fenders back far enough and bump stop the suspension and put 32" tires in there with the lift you have.

Really? that would work? wonder how far I would have to trim the fenders back though, and how much bump stop to add? any pics available or a write up available anywhere so I can see what it would look like?

[Mudderoy]

Really? that would work? wonder how far I would have to trim the fenders back though, and how much bump stop to add? any pics available or a write up available anywhere so I can see what it would look like?

Maybe someone else has run across this. I've only heard of it being done, and it makes sense that it could be.

[SACHEROKEE]

Maybe someone else has run across this. I've only heard of it being done, and it makes sense that it could be.

WOW now youve got me drooling :) Hope someone knows bit more about it.

[4.3LXJ]

You can run spacers on the coils and it works well. If you stack them up to full coils it is about 90% as well. The problem is that once you start doing this there is an issue with castor. You need to start lengthening the lower and upper control arms or the wheel starts moving back into the fender. You can compensate for this with control arm drop brackets. You also might need longer brake lines. But first we need to figure out what you have or I might give you the wrong advice. Please take the time and use the measurements I gave in an above post and report back. I will tell you that when you lift an XJ, once you go beyond 3" it starts getting expensive, and the taller you go the faster the expense goes up.

[alwaysxj]

i have seen people run 36s on 3-4 inch lift. so i think 32 will work.
if you do not need flares on were you live them yank them and cut away.

here is a link for the 3 inch and the 36s.
http://www.cherokeeforum.com/f2/low-cog-suspension-setup-tricks-tips-32980/

[SACHEROKEE]

Please take the time and use the measurements I gave in an above post and report back. I will tell you that when you lift an XJ, once you go beyond 3" it starts getting expensive, and the taller you go the faster the expense goes up.


I have measured, and repoted back twice with the measurements, and with what ive found installed, just go back and check the previous posts.
She is 1" above stock, front and back. Back is extra leaf and 1.75" shackle,
front is different coils. (dont know what coils though)

[4.3LXJ]

In that case, the cheapest thing you can do is to substitute some other leaves from another vehicle in the rear. I don't know what you have available there, but you will just have to measure. You want leaves 2.5" wide and as long as the XJ leaves. They need to have about 8" free arch (distance from the center pin hole to an imaginary line between the eyes of the main leaf). You substitute these leaves in underneath the XJ main leaf with a new center pin and that will get you an extra couple of inches which will get you in the ball park for the rear. You will have to get longer shocks though and will end up having to buy a shock for a lifted XJ. The front you can put spacers in and get some height that way, but I don't recommend going more than 2' on a coil spacer. If you go higher, you will need to start buying kits because you will need longer control arms in the front, longer brake lines front and rear and full leaf packs for the rear and the shocks to go with them. Three inches is as high as you can go with a cheap lift. It starts getting expensive after that.

[SACHEROKEE]

In that case, the cheapest thing you can do is to substitute some other leaves from another vehicle in the rear. I don't know what you have available there, but you will just have to measure. You want leaves 2.5" wide and as long as the XJ leaves. They need to have about 8" free arch (distance from the center pin hole to an imaginary line between the eyes of the main leaf). You substitute these leaves in underneath the XJ main leaf with a new center pin and that will get you an extra couple of inches which will get you in the ball park for the rear. You will have to get longer shocks though and will end up having to buy a shock for a lifted XJ. The front you can put spacers in and get some height that way, but I don't recommend going more than 2' on a coil spacer. If you go higher, you will need to start buying kits because you will need longer control arms in the front, longer brake lines front and rear and full leaf packs for the rear and the shocks to go with them. Three inches is as high as you can go with a cheap lift. It starts getting expensive after that.

Ok kewl! Its quite strange here, for extended shocks they want R900 each, which amounts to just shy of 4 grand, un-installed of course, installation is still anothr R500 bucks. But I can get a full 3" suspension kit, which comes with shocks for the 3" lift, for R2700.00 bucks! So guess which one im going to go for. The kit apparently comes with shocks, leafes, etc etc etc.
Im thinking that would be a better bet, untill I can get some bucks to extend from 3" to the 4.5"?

[4.3LXJ]

Wow, what is the exchange rate there?

[SACHEROKEE]

Wow, what is the exchange rate there?

At the moment about R8 = $1
So you can see our problem, what you pay for parts costs us over 8 times as much, and then the guys add profit and..........:) So we can work on an average of it costs 100 dollars....it costs us a grand!

[Mudderoy]

At the moment about R8 = $1
So you can see our problem, what you pay for parts costs us over 8 times as much, and then the guys add profit and..........:) So we can work on an average of it costs 100 dollars....it costs us a grand!

Well I guess it really depends on how much an hour people make. I guess you'd need to be making about R200 an hour for it to be equal. I think I'd go crazy if I could buy Jeep parts! lol

[SACHEROKEE]

Well I guess it really depends on how much an hour people make. I guess you'd need to be making about R200 an hour for it to be equal. I think I'd go crazy if I could buy Jeep parts! lol

Im in the R100 an hour range, so they are VERY expensive for me :)

[toebee97]

Im in the R100 an hour range, so they are VERY expensive for me :)
You might want to contact one of the vendors here on xjtalk, some of them may be willing to ship a lift kit to SA... it could save you a lot of cash!

[Thomass]

At the moment about R8 = $1
So you can see our problem, what you pay for parts costs us over 8 times as much, and then the guys add profit and..........:) So we can work on an average of it costs 100 dollars....it costs us a grand!

The same here in The Netherlands, the only difference is that our government add a lot of tax


You might want to contact one of the vendors here on xjtalk, some of them may be willing to ship a lift kit to SA... it could save you a lot of cash!

Here in Holland we pay import tax, BTW (=vat) customs and not only over the goods, but also over the transport cost.
at the end you will pay a lot of unnecessary Euro's.

a simpel item as an hydraulic lifter cost at some internet-stores in the US about 5 t 6 dollar, here i pay for only 1 "26 euro" if i order it in the US, i have to wait a view weeks and pay about 35 dollar shipping cost:(

[SACHEROKEE]

Hi All, long time no chat :) guess what...I have finally done a lift on my jeep,yaaaaaaaay, ok, ok, its not a 4.5" (finances just wont allow) so I settled for a 3". Got a good price on a rough country 3" kit. not the add a leaf, but rather the whole new springs at the back too. She looks great! (ill post pics tomorrow) I guess I will have to settle with 31" rubber :(. I now have 2 different problems, 1st is that the ABS light stays on, I do know that the guys who installed the lift also replaced the wheel bearings. The 2nd problem is she is sitting 20" in the front, and 19.5" at the back on the passenger side, and 19.5" in the front, and 19" at the back on the drivers side. So thats like 1/2" difference from front to back, and a 1/2" allround difference from drivers side to passengers side! 1/2" is clearly visible with the eye! How do I rectify this? and also what is the better marriage...31" or 32" tyres :) bare in mind I dont do any extreme offroad, so no flexing :)

[4.3LXJ]

Congratulations on the lift. As far as tires goes, 10.50X31" tires will fit nicely on stock wheels. I still have mine that way until I prepare to go bigger. You will not need to do any trimming of the fender flares that way. 32s will necessitate some trimming of the fender flares because you will need wider wheels and that will move the tire outward and will therefore hit the fender flares when flexing. And you would be surprised at how much flexing can happen when going in a driveway with a load in the back. I would drive it a little more and see if you get any additional settling particularly in the rear. If so or if it stays the same, I would contact rough country and send them some pics if necessary. They may end up replacing some springs. If not, you can straighten it out with some 1/2X2 1/2" shims in the rear and an extra spring isolator in the front.

[SACHEROKEE]

Cool, thanks. I forgot to mention I have 1.25" spacers on, and my rims are
15" x 7.5J ?
I think im going to have to do the shims thing, cant wait another 4 weeks for Rough Country :)
any ideas on the ABS light?:confused:

[4.3LXJ]

Sorry about the ABS, I know next to nothing about it.