Debugging the FireWire 4.0KIT install - 1998 Jeep Cherokee

[pvt.Tadpol xj]

Hey Muddy.. I am running that same Ign. Kit on my Lerado it work's very well.But you need to make you a heat shield for your Ign. Coil..All of those Coil's that are mounted on the side of the engine block get too hot. Here's what i did I found a piece of corrugated rain gutter about 5 in wide and 4 in tall And after i installed my cowl piece onto my hood i had to remove some of that heat insulation where i cut out the hole for the cool air to flow. I wrappped that corrugated piece 2 time's with that heat Insulation and loosened the mounting brackett to the Ign. coil and slipped that heat shield right down in there and tightened everything back up. Work's like a charm! I apologize to everyone for not posting any picture's I don't have a camera and i don't have any money...

[Mudderoy]

I recorded data driving in to work this morning. My "Check Engine" light came on yesterday, so after getting to work I checked the code. I had 4 of them.

P0300
P0302
P0304
P0305

Basically they are all mis-fires. 302 is cylinder 2, 304 is cylinder 4 and 305 is cylinder 5. So either the cables are all starting to fail, or I have a bad rotor, rotor cap, or the head gasket is REALLY going bad! :D

[Ruinator]

You consider an MSD box? :driving: I will always have one on a jeep. Better spark, better burn. Might compliment the larger injectors. Also I really like the turbo city air tube. High in the engine compartment away from any water. With hood vents I dont think heat is a concern

My .02

Mike
:popcorn:

[Mudderoy]

You consider an MSD box? :driving: I will always have one on a jeep. Better spark, better burn. Might compliment the larger injectors. Also I really like the turbo city air tube. High in the engine compartment away from any water. With hood vents I dont think heat is a concern

My .02

Mike
:popcorn:

No because the mpg write up I read used the Performance Distributors solution. I've seen the MSD stuff, looks nice, but frankly I really thought it was more a street racing mod. Makes sense it would work in our application as well though.

I really want a snorkle, so I hate to spend $200 for one then $400 for the other. I guess I could always switch back and forth depending on the application. Lord knows I'll be needing the mpg more than the protection against hydo-lock.

[alwaysxj]

wow thanks i will have to get this for the drive to moab.{if i have the cash}

[pvt.Tadpol xj]

Muddy i'm not recommending a chip but do you have a stage 1 or stage 2 tuning chip on your Xj...

[JRW7072009]

Hey Mudderoy have you pulled out the silencer from your intake? I did this and did a drop in K&N filter it seemed to help a little.

http://www.jeep-xj.info/HowtoSilencer.htm

[Mudderoy]

Hey Mudderoy have you pulled out the silencer from your intake? I did this and did a drop in K&N filter it seemed to help a little.

http://www.jeep-xj.info/HowtoSilencer.htm

I read about this, but they don't have them in 98's, and I suspect later.

[pvt.Tadpol xj]

You might should consider how a larger plug gap or a hotter spark plug might raise you combustion temperature's. And all that considering the higher speed's you drive Just being a friend!!!! I mean't to ask do you have a tuning chip from Jet. They claim better MPG..

[Mudderoy]

I got the Auto-lite Platinum Plugs.

[JRW7072009]

I read about this, but they don't have them in 98's, and I suspect later.

Aw yeah, I did not think of that.

I see you have a header, but what kinda of muffle are you running?

[Mudderoy]

Aw yeah, I did not think of that.

I see you have a header, but what kinda of muffle are you running?

It is a flowmaster super 44.

http://xjtalk.com/images/special/JeepNewMufflerCat.jpg

[Mudderoy]

I installed the Performance Distributor Firepower 4.0KIT this evening.

Everything was very straight forward. Replace the coil, rotor, distributor cap, plug wires and plugs.

I gapped the plugs to .065. Verified all connections and cranked the engine.

It started right up, and then shortly after a miss developed. The miss got worse, the "CHECK ENGINE" light came on. P1391.

I took the Autolite plugs out and re-gapped to .050, especially since the P1391 error made no sense to me.

Same issue, with the exception that the miss was bad to start with.

I started replacing things one at a time. Plugs back to the Champions and .035 gap, no change.

Rotor, no change. Distributor cap, no change. Plug wires, change! Ran smooth and no "CHECK ENGINE" light.

I have sent an e-mail to Performance Distributors with a detailed description of the problem I am having. Hopefully I will hear back from them later today (Wednesday). My assumption, and I think it is a good one, is either one or more of the plug wires is bad, or I don't have enough current running to the firepower demon coil to generate enough voltage to make it through the plug wires.

We'll see what happens next. Needless to say, I am very tired, frustrated, and disappointed. I'll add another, surprised. Researching the kit I have yet to find ANYONE else that had any issues installing this kit! Lucky me. :thumbdown:

[rguignard]

damnit men is your jeep mad at you :sad0147:that blows put everything back on it and run one of your old plug wires for now it least that get you moving :smiley-gen165:

[Mudderoy]

I called Performance Distributors today and spoke with Larry. I explained what happened and he agreed it sounded like a bad plug wire.

I told him I still had the coil on and would that be a problem. He said no, but he wouldn't run it more than a couple of weeks.

He told me to check the resistance of the plug wire. It should be 300 ohms, and I should see one (or more) that is well away from that value.

I need to find the wire(s) then call Larry back with the number of the wire(s) and he'll send me the replacement.

Disappointing that I'm not just enjoying my new ignition system, but at least that disappointment hasn't been compounded by getting the run around from the company that created the kit to start with.

...more to come...

[Ruinator]

Damn Mudd, that way BLOWS!! Sorry

[Mudderoy]

Damn Mudd, that way BLOWS!! Sorry

Thanks. Yes, in a bad way. :D

Through problems we learn things. I've never had to check a plug wire before, so this will be cool finding the problem with my ohm meter. I guess I could have done this last night and just compared them with each other finding the one (or more) that didn't match the other wires.

Makes for a more interesting write up as well. :popcorn:

[alwaysxj]

oh crap that sucks.

[4.3LXJ]

Thanks. Yes, in a bad way. :D

Through problems we learn things. I've never had to check a plug wire before, so this will be cool finding the problem with my ohm meter. I guess I could have done this last night and just compared them with each other finding the one (or more) that didn't match the other wires.

Makes for a more interesting write up as well. :popcorn:

This will be a learning experience for me too. I tried doing it once and couldn't figure it out. They all showed no continuity.

[Ruinator]

(Psssst buy an MSD box on ebay):D

[Mudderoy]

I forgot to post the results...

Plug Wires (in Ohms)
1-1009
2-217
3-312
4-293
5-380
6-447
DC-413

So I'd say #1 plug wire is bad, but #2,#5,#6 and the coil to distributor cap don't look exactly right either. I'll know more after 9am today.

[pvt.Tadpol xj]

I can't help but wonder if a Accel Super Stock Ign. Kit.... might work better with your application.....

[Mudderoy]

I can't help but wonder if a Accel Super Stock Ign. Kit.... might work better with your application.....

Well I have lots to wonder about and only a few things I can afford to try. The only reason I went with this setup is because of the mpg story I found. If I can increase my MPG then the mods will pay for themselves.

[Mudderoy]

I just got off the phone with Performance Distributors. I spoke with Larry. Super nice! I went over all the readings and he explained that it was 300 ohms per foot. I expected as much since it would require different size wires, or material to maintain 300 ohms from a 2 foot cable to a 1 foot cable.

We went over all the measured values, and he agreed that the #1 cable was bad, at 1000 ohms. So they are going to make me up a new #1 red cable and send it out to me. I should have it Tuesday next week. :patriot:

Since I am running the new coil anyway, I'm going to put all the new stuff back on except for the #1 coil wire. I'll use the old one for that. If the problem is the #1 plug wire then everything should run fine. Then next week when I get the #1 plug wire it will be a quick fix. It will be interesting to see what the old plug wire does with the .050 gapped autolite.

[Mudderoy]

This kit is really starting to get on my nerves.

I went outside to the garage this morning to replace all the old stuff with the new stuff except the #1 plug wire (1000 ohm).

So I get it all replaced, and crank it up, IT RUNS LIKE shit!

I replace all the Autolite spark plugs with the Champion, still runs like shit.

I start replacing the plug wires one at a time. On a wild guess I try the coil to rotor cap plug and everything runs fine.

I then replace the old #1 plug wire with the Firewire 1000 ohm plug wire, yep you guessed it, runs fine.

There is a slight miss while it is running and that may be the old spark plugs, or that #1 plug wire.

So tomorrow I get to call Performance Distributors back and tell the about another bad wire.

[4.3LXJ]

OOO, that is frustrating. Just to rub it in, I got my trouble code straightened out. One knock sensor on the back of the engine was disconnected :smiley-taunt013:

[Mudderoy]

OOO, that is frustrating. Just to rub it in, I got my trouble code straightened out. One knock sensor on the back of the engine was disconnected :smiley-taunt013:

That's great news. Cheap and easy fix.

[4.3LXJ]

I won't lie to ya, it has been a frustrating long term fix.

[Mudderoy]

I won't lie to ya, it has been a frustrating long term fix.

Oh but it's sweet when you find it. I found today that my 3 core radiator has a minor leak. So I guess I'm taking it out and going to a radiator shop next weekend. Just got to find one closer to me than the last one I went to.

[4.3LXJ]

Oh but it's sweet when you find it. I found today that my 3 core radiator has a minor leak. So I guess I'm taking it out and going to a radiator shop next weekend. Just got to find one closer to me than the last one I went to.

Yes, the wife and I both cheered. Gotta smog it now so no CELs allowed. Too bad about the radiator. Is it in the tank or core?

[Mudderoy]

Yes, the wife and I both cheered. Gotta smog it now so no CELs allowed. Too bad about the radiator. Is it in the tank or core?

Core. Looks like the electric fan rubbed a spot in the middle of the radiator. I can see fluid, but it isn't even enough to make a drip.

[Mudderoy]

I just got off the phone with Performance Distributors again. I expressed my concern that the issue wasn't the #1 plug with, it was the coil wire. Then I told them that I was concerned we would be going back and forth on this kit until the real problem was found. Basically I wanted to see if they had any experience that would indicate what the problem might be. I mean if one plug wire shows a very high resistance, but works, and a coil wire that shows a normal resistance makes the 4.0 run so bad, WTH!?!?!

I've never spend $200 on a coil, plug wires, rotor and cap. I know maybe I've led a sheltered life or maybe back in my small block Chevy days it cost as much but it was just less money because it was 30 years ago. :smiley-laughing021:

At any rate Performance Distributors offered me a new set of plug wires if I was willing to send the old one's back. I feel pretty good about this. The only thing that it could be (at least in my mind) is a bad coil, or adapter that goes between the factory coil wiring and the coil.

I guess I've spent about 4 hours total on this kit now, and I'm really starting to get frustrated. I was hoping to be experiencing all that I've been reading about from everyone else, increased performance and better miles per gallon.

:pee:

[4.3LXJ]

At least they are willing to work with you. But you would expect better quality control than that. I ended up making my own wires from scratch. Mine have stainless wire wound in a double helix, like a light bulb filament.

[rguignard]

can you say send it back :smiley-laughing021: to much money to have this many problems with it just my 2 cents

[Mudderoy]

can you say send it back :smiley-laughing021: to much money to have this many problems with it just my 2 cents

Well that may happen but like I said, I read an excellent mpg review and I haven't found anything that showed this product to have any issues. I believe that I may have just got a bad set of plug wires.

What I have not mentioned yet (I was home sick today) is that on the drive home Monday evening it was like driving a bucking bronco.

Today after UPS dropped off the replacement #1 plug wire I went outside and replaced the old firewire plug with with the replacement. Cranked it up and immedient miss. I went and grapped all the old non "Firewire" plug wires and started replacing each one, then starting the engine. After replacing #5 the miss went away.

I took the Jeep out on a quick test drive. It was smooth, but as I accelerated after the light, it missed a couple of times. I drove it back home and replaced the #6 plug wire.

So right now I have #2 through #6 using the old plug wires and #1 is the new NEW Firewire from PD.

My next step will be to replace all the plug wires once they arrive. I'm guessing Thursday or Friday.

[4.3LXJ]

Hey Muddy, what is the construction of these wires. Carbon core or metal?

[4.3LXJ]

I did some searching and I can't find out who makes these things. Found people that sell them and that they have silicone insulation, but not what is inside and that they have 25 ohms per foot resistance.

[4.3LXJ]

Finally found it I think on Summit Racing website. Here is the product blurb.

You need a good spark to make good energy and power. LiveWires from Davis Unified Ignitions are spark plug wires that deliver the spark that you need for the energy that you want. Made with space-age, non-flammable, heat-treated glass braid, LiveWires provide heat protection up to 1,400 degrees and offer excellent resistance to moisture and chemicals. These wires feature a spiral-core stainless steel wire wrapped around a magnetic core, offering extremely low-ohm resistance for optimum spark travel. And there is no radio interference, enabling them to work well with delay boxes and stutter boxes. LiveWires have a durable silicone jacket and insulation with heat shrink applied between the boot and sleeving to keep dirt and moisture away from the wire terminals. Another excellent feature of these custom-fit, ready-to-go wires is that they are foolproof. Each wire is numbered on both ends for the correct cylinder, making installation, removal, and reinstallation hassle-free. LiveWires are available in eye-catching colors to match the sparking power that they provide. Quality wires are more than just wire and coverings. Make sure that you're wired to fire with LiveWires from Davis Unified Ignition and Performance Distributors.

So what color are yours Muddy. They come in purple you know.

Seriously though they seem to be the same construction as the other brands.

[Mudderoy]

Finally found it I think on Summit Racing website. Here is the product blurb.

You need a good spark to make good energy and power. LiveWires from Davis Unified Ignitions are spark plug wires that deliver the spark that you need for the energy that you want. Made with space-age, non-flammable, heat-treated glass braid, LiveWires provide heat protection up to 1,400 degrees and offer excellent resistance to moisture and chemicals. These wires feature a spiral-core stainless steel wire wrapped around a magnetic core, offering extremely low-ohm resistance for optimum spark travel. And there is no radio interference, enabling them to work well with delay boxes and stutter boxes. LiveWires have a durable silicone jacket and insulation with heat shrink applied between the boot and sleeving to keep dirt and moisture away from the wire terminals. Another excellent feature of these custom-fit, ready-to-go wires is that they are foolproof. Each wire is numbered on both ends for the correct cylinder, making installation, removal, and reinstallation hassle-free. LiveWires are available in eye-catching colors to match the sparking power that they provide. Quality wires are more than just wire and coverings. Make sure that you're wired to fire with LiveWires from Davis Unified Ignition and Performance Distributors.

So what color are yours Muddy. They come in purple you know.

Seriously though they seem to be the same construction as the other brands.

Thanks. That sounds like what I read about them originally. 300 ohms per foot is what I was told, and red. :thumbsup:

[TheWeiss]

I've got this kit in my Jeep I didn't see any change in the MPG's (more on that later). They did improve my idling and throttle response though. I did pull the gap down from .065 to .050. The kit promises that can run " up to .065" but I didn't want to push it.


Now, MPG mods. I, like you, have done just about everything possible to increase power and decrease fuel consumption. I started with the Livewires Kit, then a K&N intake, then a Borla Cat back, then electric fans (took out the clutch fan and the old electric fan) and finally finished by putting in a MagnaFlow Cat and Banks Torque tube headers. So, in plain terms, my Jeep breathes in better, out better, burns better and is running one less thing on the belt. All that said, I have a minimal lift (less than 2 inches) and 30 inch tires. If I stick to 65 on the highway for a full tank I get right around 18.5 miles per gallon. So I don't think your MPG's are gonna get that much better, considering the bigger tires and decreased under-Jeep-aerodynamics, I think your MPG's sounds about right.

[Mudderoy]

The replacement plugs wires came in. I spend most of the day today removing the 3 core radiator and taking it to the radiator shop to have a small leak repaired.

I'll probably try the new plug wires, cap, rotor and autolite plugs tomorrow.

[Mudderoy]

As promised my new set of red Live Wire plugs came in. They even sent me a return UPS label, which I believes means they are paying for it.

Yesterday was radiator day. I took the opportunity to re-route the winch power cables while I had the radiator out.

Today my plan was to replace ONLY the plug wires, and to do so one at a time. I got my daughter outside to help me. I'd change a plug wire and she'd start it. We'd see it there was a miss turn off and proceed.

I had replaced #1 and #2 before I realized that I meant to start with the coil to distributor wire first. So before doing #3 I replaced the coil/dist wire. It wasn't missing as bad as it had, it was actually more of a revving up and down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1a_hT4Xb6bM

So I replaced the Live Wire with the original coil/dist wire and everything ran smooth again. I replaced the remaining old plug wires with the live wire plug wires, leaving the old coil/dist cable in place.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKSEzqiJ4ko

I took the Jeep on a brief test drive, and it wasn't missing.

So what I have in 6 Live Wire plug wires.
Original coil/dist wire
Fire Wire Coil
Fire Wire Coil adapter
Original Cap
Original Rotor

[4.3LXJ]

Cool, sounds better alreeady

[Mudderoy]

Cool, sounds better alreeady

lol yeah, but this wasn't the goal. The goal is to put in all the new stuff and improve the mpg. 99% of the plug wires and all the old stuff is a waste of my time and money.

[4.3LXJ]

Alright, let me put it this way. There's light at the end of the tunnel ...

[Mudderoy]

Alright, let me put it this way. There's light at the end of the tunnel ...

Sorry if it came across poorly. This is starting to get old. I called "Larry" this morning and described the lastest set of issues and after a long pause (15 seconds or so) he said "ahhhh I don't know".

He went to check with someone else and he came back and told me to check the resistance on the coil power adapter.

I asked about getting a replacement coil and adapter so we could rule that out, and he said "No". I asked if the adapter comes back good, then what's next. He said "I don't know."

It sounded rather ominous.

[4.3LXJ]

You are right, it is not. It leads me to suspect the accuracy of the article you read. I sometimes think that some of these articles are just there because certain companies advertise in their rag. In one I take there is an editorial from a long time employee on various project vehicles they built and he admits one or two did not turn out well. But I would bet that if you checked the article it wasn't anything like that.

[Mudderoy]

Well something interesting happened on the way home this evening. The engine felt like it was running very smooth, kind of like when it's cold out and has a little extra power. When I would come to a stop I didn't think the engine was running. I had to turn down the stereo to hear it, since I couldn't feel it. The tachometer was very steady.

I may try that coil/dist. wire again tonight.

Anyone think the ECU could be relearning?

[4.3LXJ]

It could be. It has to go through the gears a number of times before it relearns. I won't learn just from idling.

[troys96xj]

Lets get this thing fixed already.I'm interested to see what the outcome is.I'm fighting mpg problems as well. Mine is much worse than yours though.I have a 96 4.0,3.55,auto and 31s and am getting 7.1mpg.It's only got 85k on it.Not to mention that gas is $3 a gallon in Ohio.

[Mudderoy]

Lets get this thing fixed already.I'm interested to see what the outcome is.I'm fighting mpg problems as well. Mine is much worse than yours though.I have a 96 4.0,3.55,auto and 31s and am getting 7.1mpg.It's only got 85k on it.Not to mention that gas is $3 a gallon in Ohio.

I agree, but without additional parts, it's harder and slower to find the problem.

7 mpg!?!?!? :eek:

[troys96xj]

7 mpg!?!?!? :eek:[/QUOTE]

Tell me about it.I was told to regear but don't know if I really need it.I have 31x10.50 Swamper SSRs and can fry them for a while on dry pavement.It can spin them pretty easy.So the power is there,would I need to regear?Don't mean to thread jack,but.

[Mudderoy]

7 mpg!?!?!? :eek:

Tell me about it.I was told to regear but don't know if I really need it.I have 31x10.50 Swamper SSRs and can fry them for a while on dry pavement.It can spin them pretty easy.So the power is there,would I need to regear?Don't mean to thread jack,but.[/QUOTE]

Re-gearing helped me, but I was getting 10ish with 4.5" lift and 32x11.50x15 tires. I did O2 sensors first, then gears. I've got it up to 13.7 mpg city. Running around in 4x4 (NP242) costs me about 1.5 mpg. I've added about 300 pounds in bumpers and a winch and the mpg stays the same.

How's your O2 sensors, catalytic converter? Ever been changed?

[troys96xj]

How's your O2 sensors, catalytic converter? Ever been changed?[/QUOTE]

A few months back I burried it mirror deep in a mud hole and blew the motor.I replaced the motor with a 75k one and replaced every sensor on the Jeep and replaced the injectors and put a high flow cat and cat-back on.So all that is new along with the plugs,wires,cap,rotor,coil and filters.Also have new rad and alt.Everything listed has been replaced within the last 5k.I don't know what else to do.

[Mudderoy]

How's your O2 sensors, catalytic converter? Ever been changed?

A few months back I burried it mirror deep in a mud hole and blew the motor.I replaced the motor with a 75k one and replaced every sensor on the Jeep and replaced the injectors and put a high flow cat and cat-back on.So all that is new along with the plugs,wires,cap,rotor,coil and filters.Also have new rad and alt.Everything listed has been replaced within the last 5k.I don't know what else to do.[/QUOTE]

Does the ECU match the motor?

[troys96xj]

A few months back I burried it mirror deep in a mud hole and blew the motor.I replaced the motor with a 75k one and replaced every sensor on the Jeep and replaced the injectors and put a high flow cat and cat-back on.So all that is new along with the plugs,wires,cap,rotor,coil and filters.Also have new rad and alt.Everything listed has been replaced within the last 5k.I don't know what else to do.

Does the ECU match the motor?[/QUOTE]

I didn't change the ecu.It's the 96 ecu.I was told it was a direct bolt up.Do you think this is causeing my problem?It runs great.Idles smooth.The motor is out of a 98 XJ.

[Mudderoy]

E-mail from Performance Distributors. No one has given up hope yet. :thumbsup:

http://xjtalk.com/images/special/perfdistemail.jpg

[Mudderoy]

Well I just got a call from Performance Distributors. It was the owner Steve. He was super nice and very apologetic about the problems I was having. He said he felt it must be a bad coil and that he was going to "OVER NIGHT" me a coil, an adapter and a distributor cap!

I told him that would be great, and I would be happy to send back everything I didn't use in the box they sent me the extra plug wires in. He told me to keep it all because of all the trouble I have had.

Wow! Steve said he read through all that I had done and watched the youtube videos. He is afraid that the coil may fail completely and strand me to or from work and that is why he is over nighting me the parts.

You know we can always have issues with anything, but it's how the company deals with it that makes the difference to me!

Performance Distributors just stepped up and gets a Mudderoy gold start for customer service!
:patriot:

[Mudderoy]

As promised the new coil, adapter and distributor cap showed up via UPS this morning. I just came in from trying it out. No change. Still have a really nice big miss with either LiveWire coil wire, but nice and smooth with the OEM-ish wire.

So for those that are keeping score:

Full set of LiveWire plug wires - except coil wire which is the old one.
FireWire Cap
FireWire coil adapter

:pee:

[Mudderoy]

One of the codes that come up with the new kit is P1391. Looking this up for the 1998 Jeep Cherokee 4.0L it indicates a CPS or CMP issue. I've changed the crank position sensor over a year ago, but it looks like the distributor has a coil pickup, I believe this is the crankshaft position sensor, but I wouldn't want to swear to it.

Anyway it looks like this distributor pick up coil is on my 1998, so I was wondering before I go spend the $50 for it, has anyone changed one? What was the issue that caused you to change it?

Can anyone think of why a greater spark would make this sensor act up?

[4.3LXJ]

Muddy, I am not an authority on this one, but that is the camshaft position sensor. Do a little research on it first. I had a code for this on my Chevy and changed that pick up coil and still had it. Turns out I had one of my knock sensor wires off, the one I couldn't see of course. I am thinking the code might be due to some small knock due to the hotter spark. Just a thought.

[Mudderoy]

Muddy, I am not an authority on this one, but that is the camshaft position sensor. Do a little research on it first. I had a code for this on my Chevy and changed that pick up coil and still had it. Turns out I had one of my knock sensor wires off, the one I couldn't see of course. I am thinking the code might be due to some small knock due to the hotter spark. Just a thought.

I don't think the 98 4.0L has a knock sensor. I'll check.

[Mudderoy]

Ok so many years ago if I was adjusting my small block Chevy engine and it was missing like this 4.0 was, I would have loosen the distributor and rotated it until it stopped missing then rev the engine and see if the rpms came up quickly, or if it bogged then increased. I know nothing scientific but I could get it close then a test drive would let me know if it was running correctly.

Ok that is what I wanted to do tonight, but I know that blasted computer controls the advance. Well in researching my P1391 I see that the camshaft position sensor can be a sympton of the distributor not being lined up. There is a piece of metal that the sensor spins over and that signal is sent to the PCM. Well if the distributor isn't lined up with the piece of metal (in the distributor) then the signal is given at the wrong time.

How does that happen? Normal timing chain stretch. So you put the engine on top dead center and take the top off the distributor, including the crankshaft position sensor. You then stick a toothpick through a hole in the distributor case and into that metal "wall" that the sensor moves over. You adjust the distributor until those holes line up.

I'm a little concerned about finding TDC on the 4.0L without having to remove the valve cover, so I'm thinking why can't I just adjust the distributor like I used to on the old Chevy engines? It should be pretty apparent when it is missing or not!

[4.3LXJ]

I wonder if this has anything to do with your miss?

[Mudderoy]

I wonder if this has anything to do with your miss?

Well if I understand you correctly, yes I think it does. It may have something to do with the occasional miss I have with the OEM coil wire and the constant miss I have with the FireWire.

It may even have something to do with the P0305 code I was getting since the timing that is obtained from this sensor is used for the injector firing timing (I think I remembered that correctly), and could be why my gas mileage is a little off. :patriot:

[Ruinator]

Mudd, Maybe I am missing something, but with the old equipment you are not getting a code correct? Then it has got to be the changed gear. I think if there was a issue with the CPS or timing, or even the distributor it would fail/send code regardless of wires coil and distributor cap. IMHO

Never had an issue like this upgrading to MSD box, coil, and the accel wires. In my eyes this screams quality issue.

Sorry this is dragging on for you.

[4.3LXJ]

You might be on to something here. Something else you might check, does the ECM advance timing? Or does it only retard. On the Chevy it can only retard so I have a gas milage and power issue with the factory smog specs. Guess who advances his timing.

The reason I ask is that if your ECM only retards, then advancing your timing could pick up a couple of MPGs

[Mudderoy]

Mudd, Maybe I am missing something, but with the old equipment you are not getting a code correct? Then it has got to be the changed gear. I think if there was a issue with the CPS or timing, or even the distributor it would fail/send code regardless of wires coil and distributor cap. IMHO

Never had an issue like this upgrading to MSD box, coil, and the accel wires. In my eyes this screams quality issue.

Sorry this is dragging on for you.

Well I'm still in the learning curve here, but I think that I could having a minor timing issue that when there is an increased spark at the spark plug gets magnified.

[Mudderoy]

You might be on to something here. Something else you might check, does the ECM advance timing? Or does it only retard. On the Chevy it can only retard so I have a gas milage and power issue with the factory smog specs. Guess who advances his timing.

The reason I ask is that if your ECM only retards, then advancing your timing could pick up a couple of MPGs

Interesting, I'll check.

[Mudderoy]

I sent Steve 3 e-mails last night as I found more information and wanted to add to the prior e-mail. I called him this morning about 10 am. We spoke for a few minutes and he wanted to look up the Jeep distributor in a manual to better understand what I was talking about and how it could be effecting the running of the engine when I installed the coil/dist wire.

Since then I've receive two e-mails with documents attached, that I still need to read completely, but he thinks I may be on to something. He mentions in one of his e-mails that they are sending me out yet another coil/distributor cable that they are testing at their shop first!

I've received some pretty good service in the past, and sometimes I have to get pretty ugly before I get it, but not so this time. These guys are going above and beyond to help me. As I expressed to Steve in my e-mail and this morning on the phone, I really don't think that after two Fire Wire kits that the problem is with their stuff. It must be a problem with my Jeep that their equipment is exposing.

I received a call from one of the folks at Performance Distributors to tell me about the e-mails that Steve sent me and the additional coil wire that's coming out. Classy!

[4.3LXJ]

I received a call from one of the folks at Performance Distributors to tell me about the e-mails that Steve sent me and the additional coil wire that's coming out. Classy!

Pretty soon you will have a complete extra kit you can sell and essentially have a free kit.:thumbsup:

[Mudderoy]

Pretty soon you will have a complete extra kit you can sell and essentially have a free kit.:thumbsup:

Well I took the distributor out this evening. There isn't anything to adjust on it. Further reading after putting everything back together I think I need to pull the distributor out, turn the oil pump with a screwdriver then stab the distributor back in place until the hole in the base of the pulse ring and the hole in the bottom of the distributor line up.

I'm getting closer, but the closer might be closer to having it not run at all. :smiley-laughing021:

[Mudderoy]

I found a article about a master mechanic that was having issue with his 2000 Jeep XJ. He had the oscilliscope out and this that and the other and just couldn't figure out why it was running ruff. Finally he did the "toothpick" alignement procedure on the pulse ring. I think it was in 2000 they went to a coil pack and dropped the distributor, but they still have this distributor type stem that goes in the same spot. On top of that stem is the pulse ring with the camshaft position sensor. When that stem is inserted into the oil pump it has an alignment hole that must match up with the pulse ring otherwise the cam pos sensor won't send the signal to the ECM at the right time, and the engine won't run, or it will run ruff.

I e-mail this guy, Richard, and he was very nice to respond to me this morning with a multi-page attachment detailing how to align my 1998 pulse ring and CMP sensor!

The first thing you have to do is get the engine at TDC (Top Dead Center). I've never done this on this engine before so I guess I spend about an hour getting it there, then I was ready to pull the distributor adjust the oil pump and stab it back in place.

Here is what I saw...

http://xjtalk.com/images/special/1998jeepdistributor.jpg

The hole is perfectally aligned with the pulse ring and the hole in the bottom of the distributor housing. It is possible that the CMP "Camshaft Position" sensor has a problem, but I cannot find anyone locally that carries one. Looks like I'll have to order one from the Internet and I run the risk of buying a part I don't need.

Here is a video with the complete kit installed including the Autolite spark plugs gapped at .050

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1JoFeAsQR0

That's about as long as I wanted it to run. I was afraid something was going to break!

[4.3LXJ]

Man, that is rough. Something definitely wrong there. How is the timing? I am sure you checked it but it sounds very advanced.

[Mudderoy]

Man, that is rough. Something definitely wrong there. How is the timing? I am sure you checked it but it sounds very advanced.

No I don't check anything I don't have any control over. I mean the only thing I guess I could have done would be to hook up the OBD II scanner and see what the computer was doing to it. It varies second to second.

[Mudderoy]

Well I found the problem. There were NO issues with the Performance Distributor Kit! Without their help and great "let's get it working!" attitude I would not have been able to try everything, to my satisfaction, which made me look for the answer else where.

I'm tired of messing with it tonight so I'll put the autolite spark plugs in tomorrow.

As it stand now I have the 2nd 4.0KIT installed completely, remember the spark plugs don't come with the kit.

[Mudderoy]

Just drove the 3 miles to Wal-Mart and back. Ran beautifully, no misses. Anxious to see how it runs with the .050 plugs.

:cheerleader:

[4.3LXJ]

I wonder if these coils are not all they are cracked up to be?

[rguignard]

Well I found the problem. There were NO issues with the Performance Distributor Kit! Without their help and great "let's get it working!" attitude I would not have been able to try everything, to my satisfaction, which made me look for the answer else where.

I'm tired of messing with it tonight so I'll put the autolite spark plugs in tomorrow.

As it stand now I have the 2nd 4.0KIT installed completely, remember the spark plugs don't come with the kit.

so what was it ?

[Ruinator]

Glad the product was good. Pretty awesome customer service:thumbsup:

The problem......?

:popcorn:

[Ruinator]

Come on.......

[Mudderoy]

Come on.......

lol

[Ruinator]

totally wrong...........totally:smiley-computer005:

[Mudderoy]

rofl

Well it doesn't look like people are voting anyway...

It was the CRANKSHAFT POSITION SENSOR.

Now someone explain to me how it works fine with stock ignition system and doesn't with a high performance ignition system.

[4.3LXJ]

That is a real Gremlin for sure. I would never have guessed.

[Ruinator]

ya, totally makes no sense. Every CPS issue has been they just immediately stop working. They either work,......or don't.

So now your XJ runs great without issue? Congrats!:patriot:

(but me very confused!!:stars:)

Anyone make sense of this??

:popcorn:

[4.3LXJ]

I have seen other CPS do something like this, fail intermittently, but only with upgrades is a brain teaser.

[Mudderoy]

I have seen other CPS do something like this, fail intermittently, but only with upgrades is a brain teaser.

The P1391(?) code I was getting was my only clue. That code ONLY came up with the FireWire kit coil/dist wire installed.

I fixed it Saturday and it has been running strong since. I mean it isn't a guess situation. It ran really bad with the live wire coil wire with the CPS I replaced the CPS and it ran smooth.

I told my wife that the solution to the problem couldn't have been futher away from what I was changing unless it had been on another vehicle.

[prerunner1982]

Wow glad it has all worked out for you so far....

What are some of the pros you have noticed so far? If you have already mentioned would you mind reiterating them?

Also... as I mentioned in chat I would be interested in the MPG #s when you get around to it.

[Mudderoy]

Wow glad it has all worked out for you so far....

What are some of the pros you have noticed so far? If you have already mentioned would you mind reiterating them?

Also... as I mentioned in chat I would be interested in the MPG #s when you get around to it.

Faster acceleration, runs smoother. Same stuff I've read other people say about their installs.

I haven't replaced the spark plugs yet. So this 1st week is with the champion .035 gapped plugs. They are about a year old.

[prerunner1982]

So about that other "kit".... what are your ideas with that? Maybe have some type of competition?

[Mudderoy]

So about that other "kit".... what are your ideas with that? Maybe have some type of competition?

The moderators and I are discussing the details...