The perfect bastard pack ... maybe

[4.3LXJ]

I am sort of always tweaking my suspension to get what I want. Too cheap to just buy leaf springs I guess. I had a set of rear springs consisting of the main and a S10 heavy duty rear spring. If I used three leaves, it was good riding but not tall enough. If I used the whole thing, it had the right height but was too stiff. Our XJs are apparently quite a bit lighter than other comparable rigs which might explain why they do so well off road. So anyway, I have always wanted to experiment with some Isuzu Rodeo springs. They are slightly shorter than S10 springs, have about 2" more arch in them and have thinner leaves. The width is a metric size that is about 1/16" shy of the width of our springs, close enough. Here is the spring out of the vehicle.

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu215/warriorsuspension/Build%20Stuff/IMG_0510.jpg

As you can see, it has quite a bit of curve to the leaves. Here is an S10 leaf next to the Rodeo leaf

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu215/warriorsuspension/Build%20Stuff/IMG_0511.jpg]

It is a well set up spring, here it is disassembled. Notice the space between each leaf. This space is called "snap". Probably because the spring will snap apart when the center pin is cut.

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu215/warriorsuspension/Build%20Stuff/IMG_0509.jpg

To use this spring, it is necessary to cut off the eyes with a torch and use the main leaf as our #2 leaf. I tried using all three leaves with the bottom leaf upside down. This would be a good design for a two stage spring and not allow the leaves to over flex and loose their temper. I set it down and got an amazing 6" lift with it. However it was too stiff like that. I then removed the #2 Isuzu leaf, which would be our new #3 leaf and kept the bottom leaf upside down. It looked like this.

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu215/warriorsuspension/Build%20Stuff/IMG_0513.jpg

This gave a very soft spring with something like a stock spring rate with 3" of lift. But it seemed a little soft like that. So I took the leaf I removed and cut it to 10" from center on the short side and 12" on the long side and put it right side up in the bottom. This changed the spring from a two stage spring to a single stage four leaf spring, which is what was factory and a little stiffer, but still flexible. My estimate is that it is about 1/3 greater spring rate just like my front RE coils. This netted a 4" lift together with my 1" spacer blocks gives me 5" rear lift which gets me level, which is where I started only now I have softer springs.

I am going wheeling Sunday and try them out. But I can tell already that it will be more enjoyable without those stiff rear springs.

[Capndave]

what year rodeo?

[4.3LXJ]

Any of them that don't have rear coils. Dodge Raiders too

[toebee97]

Nice... I'm definitely gonna have to try this instead of s-10 leafs. Thanks!

[pingpong]

Nice write up.. any rreason why you didnt consider using MJ leafs ?

[4.3LXJ]

Nice write up.. any rreason why you didnt consider using MJ leafs ?

I was looking for certain characteristics in the leaves themselves such as higher arch and thinner steel. These had what I wanted. These flex well and ride very well.

[pingpong]

If you get a change look at the MJ leaves.. the main is kinda thick.. the other 3 not so much. Talk about an Arch. they give a lot of lift, and flex well too:D

[4.3LXJ]

One problem with MJ leaves is finding one to rob. So far, what I have rides very well on and off road with lots of flex. I think I just need to add one short one in the bottom and I will have it. I have kind of gotten where I want a softer ride in my old age. :D

[pingpong]

Yeah they are getting harder to find in the j-yards. I think I am going to do something with my DD ride... Speaking from experience the MJ leaves flex awesome on a MJ.. in fact they might be too soft... I always had bad axle wrap

[4.3LXJ]

That is a problem with a flexy spring, they are bendable. We always go back and forth when building bastard packs. The axle wrap is not a real issue for me though because I have installed a CV joint in the drive shaft and if I do get a few degrees change due to wrap it won't affect the length of the shaft much. But I sure like the way it rides and flexes.

[nismo5]

theres a mj at chico pnp must have just been put out rear leaves are still on it and it has aftermarket shackles and yeah i go to pnp way too much :) i bought some more lebaron hood vents when i was telling the guy at pnp what they were for he said "yeah theres some guy with a cherokee here in town that has all kinds of crazy holes cut in his hood":smiley-laughing021::smiley-laughing021:i guess your pretty noticeable steve

[4.3LXJ]

theres a mj at chico pnp must have just been put out rear leaves are still on it and it has aftermarket shackles and yeah i go to pnp way too much :) i bought some more lebaron hood vents when i was telling the guy at pnp what they were for he said "yeah theres some guy with a cherokee here in town that has all kinds of crazy holes cut in his hood":smiley-laughing021::smiley-laughing021:i guess your pretty noticeable steve

Yeah, I just saw it today while I was there. Didn't have a tape measure with me though. Anybody know if the main leaves interchange between them. I am thinking that the MJ main with the Isuzu leaves under it would be perfect. The Isuzu leaves still have a little more arch than the MJ.

[nismo5]

mj springs are a couple inches longer than xj springs im pretty sure from eye to eye they also move the axle back a couple inches because of the center pin hole i lost interest because i didnt wanna relocate the rear shackles i think theres threads on naxja about them

[4.3LXJ]

OK, thanks. I didn't have my tape measure with me today. I will stick with what I have. I am happy with it.

[nismo5]

yeah when i measured it was enough difference that seemed like it was alot of work or i could just order lift springs so i went the easy way :) but your bastard pack sure as heck beats the price by a long shot im sure

[pingpong]

I think MJ leaves are 5" longer in the front side. and still longer on the back. The MJ leaves are sprung under. so when put on top of the axle add helluva a lot of lift.

[4.3LXJ]

yeah when i measured it was enough difference that seemed like it was alot of work or i could just order lift springs so i went the easy way :) but your bastard pack sure as heck beats the price by a long shot im sure

It wasn't just a matter of money, after all I have spent some bucks on this rig. It is a matter of making something better than what I can buy. I think I finally did it. These are not real good hill climbing springs, but in all other respects I I think they are better than what I could buy. Great ride and good match for the fronts when taking the big speed bumps on Estates Drive. I finally got that one where I can exceed the speed limit comfortably in those bumps, so I am happy with that.

[nismo5]

hahaha yeah those bumps suck and all the golfers look at you funny if you speed by there atleast you know what you want sets you apart from most people :)

[4.3LXJ]

I was in a hurry to post on the bastard pack, so I didn't have time to give my evaluation. So here it is. If you like soft flexy springs, this is the ticket. But you need to run your bump stops down about 4 or 5" or you can over flex them and take the temper out of the leaves. To show you how flexy here are some pics.

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu215/warriorsuspension/Ishi%20Road/IMG_0529.jpg

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu215/warriorsuspension/Ishi%20Road/IMG_0528.jpg

These two pics were staged in a deep hole in the road.

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu215/warriorsuspension/Ishi%20Road/IMG_0542.jpg

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu215/warriorsuspension/Ishi%20Road/IMG_0541.jpg

These two were going up hill and I was stuck and had to stretch cable.

So between the S10 and Isuzu packs, which is better. Well, that depends on what you want. The Chevy spring would make a better hill climbing spring because it has a higher spring rate and is also a multistage spring with the flat leaf in the bottom. However, if you want a ride that is like a stock spring, the Isuzu is the better spring. Also, they are flexier than the Chevy spring due to being single stage (no flat leaf). Both sets of pics were taken with my front sway bar connected and with RE 210# front coils. Also, if you are into higher speed on the trail, or hit those rail road tracks at speed and love those big speed bumps, the Isuzu springs are much better. The back end stays down much better and is a more balanced suspension package with the RE springs.

[4.3LXJ]

I was in a hurry to post on the bastard pack, so I didn't have time to give my evaluation. So here it is. If you like soft flexy springs, this is the ticket. But you need to run your bump stops down about 4 or 5" or you can over flex them and take the temper out of the leaves. To show you how flexy here are some pics.

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu215/warriorsuspension/Ishi%20Road/IMG_0529.jpg

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu215/warriorsuspension/Ishi%20Road/IMG_0528.jpg

These two pics were staged in a deep hole in the road.

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu215/warriorsuspension/Ishi%20Road/IMG_0542.jpg

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu215/warriorsuspension/Ishi%20Road/IMG_0541.jpg

These two were going up hill and I was stuck and had to stretch cable.

So between the S10 and Isuzu packs, which is better. Well, that depends on what you want. The Chevy spring would make a better hill climbing spring because it has a higher spring rate and is also a multistage spring with the flat leaf in the bottom. However, if you want a ride that is like a stock spring, the Isuzu is the better spring. Also, they are flexier than the Chevy spring due to being single stage (no flat leaf). Both sets of pics were taken with my front sway bar connected and with RE 210# front coils. Also, if you are into higher speed on the trail, or hit those rail road tracks at speed and love those big speed bumps, the Isuzu springs are much better. The back end stays down much better and is a more balanced suspension package with the RE springs.

[LizardRunner]

thanks for that good info. I'm leaning at this time towards having mine reworked by superior spring here. Right now I am level and all is good but when I do my lift, I'll need some work done to get the lift right.

[abebehrmann]

Hey Steve, were you all in all happy with these leaf packs? I am considering doing something like your second try that netted ~3''. (Cutting the eyes of the Isuzu main leaf and using that as the second leaf, ditching the Isuzu 2nd leaf, and flipping the bottom leaf as you did). What do you think? Would I be better off with the springs off an S10?

[ArmyGuy45]

Would thinner mean prone to sagging?

[4.3LXJ]

The leaf packs work well in the way I set them up with the bottom leaf inverted. They just don't quite have enough support in the center without it. I currently run this pack and am happy with it for what I use it for. These are very flexy springs, so if you are looking for good off road performance, these are really good. But they won't carry a load. If you are looking for a more road friendly spring and want to carry stuff then the S10 pack would be better

[abebehrmann]

Thank you. I will probably try this method out first, as I don't really have a need to tow anything nor do I haul anything that is very heavy.

[4.3LXJ]

With the shocks I use, Monroe Gas Magnum, they ride as good as a stock spring

[NW99XJ]

Very interesting write up Steve.
Thanks for putting in the effort and all for this experiment.
I would be weary of this, or at least in the combination you've got, without taking into consideration whether or not one would potentially have passengers, or be carrying lots of gear in the back or even a larger (33"+) spare tire off the back.
I would also like to think that if you were able to change the valving of the shocks, you'd be able to better dampen the spring rate to accommodate for the "higher speed" bumps.
In any case, thanks again for breaking new ground, I think the hunt for the perfect bastard pack may be one of those ever-on-going sort of things.

[4.3LXJ]

Very interesting write up Steve.
Thanks for putting in the effort and all for this experiment.
I would be weary of this, or at least in the combination you've got, without taking into consideration whether or not one would potentially have passengers, or be carrying lots of gear in the back or even a larger (33"+) spare tire off the back.
I would also like to think that if you were able to change the valving of the shocks, you'd be able to better dampen the spring rate to accommodate for the "higher speed" bumps.
In any case, thanks again for breaking new ground, I think the hunt for the perfect bastard pack may be one of those ever-on-going sort of things.

That is why I say, these are not load carrying springs. I have my spare in back of the tailgate. So the weight of the tire is not a problem. The shocks I use have progressive valving, so the bumps are soaked up very well. I had a guy in a car tailgate me on a rough road and railroad tracks. The road was bad enough but he almost lost it on the tracks. We just kept to our 60 mph

[abebehrmann]

Can you explain a bit more the inversion of the bottom leaf? I know you've said it is to support the center of the spring so they don't over flex and lose their temper but why does flipping it help? I completely believe you, I just am curious as to why this is the case.

[4.3LXJ]

The original design of the spring is so it will support a load with some arch in it. By inverting the curved bottom leaf, it will allow the spring to flex more, but not bend the center out of the spring and give it enough support to not take the temper out of it

[Steven9378]

the concept seems awesome i wanted to check with you and see exactly what order you put them in? im new to xj's ive always had tj's before so i dont know much about leaf springs and never made a bastard pack before. if you could explain it that would be great. i saw you did it two different ways im looking to get the most flex i dont care about ride quality or anything else, im not super worried about the lift either. right now im at "4.5" but rear is sagging around an inch so around the 3-4 area would be perfect with my lift shackles. thanks hoping to get the springs today from the junk yard.