85 XJ 2.5L won't start - after some wires melting and electrical work, new fuel pump

[mkawski]

Hey again everyone,

So my 1985 2.5L XJ has been sitting for 2 months, since I had problems with it hard starting and eventually wires smoking, been working on electrical wiring. It's a junkshow lots of replaced wiring.
It is manual, 4 cylinder, 4x4, 2.5L, 1985, carbureted...

I replaced the wires (butt end connectors and some soldering), fixed it all back up, then today I couldn't get it to start. It did sound like it was turning over, but not getting fuel maybe? Spraying some carb cleaner into the carb gave it an extra rumble and it sounded like it was going to start, but then didn't.

Here are my thoughts, looking for suggestions on possible symptoms / how to test each of these:
-starter relay?
-the relay where wires were melting before: the anti-diesel timer delay relay
-distributor (will check tomorrow to see if there is any visible damage)

I know usually the main non-start questions are: is there spark? is there fuel? I'm pretty sure there is spark but I will double check tomorrow.. as for "is there fuel" how do you check that? (it uses a mechanical fuel pump)

Here is the work I did recently (Not sure how much of it was necessary):
-replaced wires going to the starter solenoid, including some fusible links
-replaced some wires that had melted, going to the anti-dieseling timer delay relay
-new starter cable (going from starter solenoid to starter itself)
-new starter solenoid
-new mechanical fuel pump (as far as I heard, this DOESN'T need to be bled, is that right? could it just be air in the system preventing fuel from getting to the carb?)
-some wiring on the drivers side of the air cleaner for some kind of vacuum assembly
-found an exposed wire in an aftermarket trailer hitch wiring that could have been hitting frame and grounding out, so I cut off the entire trailer hitch and closed off the spliced ends back to original wiring to the taillight
-replaced some fuses that were broken, or possibly broke as I removed them to check, none were burned out though

It has always been pretty hard to start, except for immediately after I replaced the cylinder head/head gasket back in August. Right before the smoking wires started, I had test drove it up to Flagstaff, and noticed that it was often sputtering when starting and would die out unless you got moving and gave it a lot of gas.
More details on previous issues here: http://www.cherokeeforum.com/f2/electrical-problems-hard-starting-fuel-pump-sputtering-out-tons-problems-230512/#post3322479

I got a multimeter but honestly could not figure out how to test relays, solenoids, etc to see if they were working. any advice on that would help.. ie do you test with battery connected? how can you test a relay if it isn't labeled (too old/worn out) and is no longer sold anywhere/not sure which pin is what.
Also a long time ago I was putting on the transmission bell housing cover plate and had to remove the starter, and noticed it was a Ford starter with a spacer plate (which made it incredibly difficult to put back in). I would rather not take it out to check the teeth etc unless last resort, but this could affect it too...

[4.3LXJ]

Your starter relay on the fenderwell has several fusible links coming off it. Have you checked those? Green and or orange wires sort of that have what look like large connections to red wires that all go to the fuse block. If it is working, it will give current to the starter solenoid. You say you have a Fiord starter, those don't have a solenoid on the starter. You must have one somewhere else down the line. Unless someone has put a Ford type starter relay in its place

[mkawski]

Your starter relay on the fenderwell has several fusible links coming off it. Have you checked those? Green and or orange wires sort of that have what look like large connections to red wires that all go to the fuse block. If it is working, it will give current to the starter solenoid. You say you have a Fiord starter, those don't have a solenoid on the starter. You must have one somewhere else down the line. Unless someone has put a Ford type starter relay in its place


hey thanks so yeah initially the wires that were melting were the green fusible links (2 that came off of a V attached together basically that go to red ones, there are photos in the linked original post), so I replaced those with the correct gauge and length fusible link wire.
these wires go directly onto the starter solenoid which is attached to the side of the body frame (http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/BWD0/S608/01931.oap?year=1985&make=Jeep&model=Cherokee&vi=1179558&ck=Search_01931_1179558_2903&pt=01931&ppt=C0330)
the starter solenoid is not on the starter, but a thick black cable runs from one side of it to the starter itself.



now I'm not sure what the starter relay looks like (http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/BWD0/S102P/01833.oap?year=1985&make=Jeep&model=Cherokee&vi=1179558&ck=Search_starter+relay_1179558_2903&keyword=starter+relay), I haven't quite found that yet. that could be a problem, if I knew how to test it to see if there is still resistance. I don't think there is a click when the ignition is turned, so that could show that the relay isn't energizing, or I just could not have listened enough

I think it is a Ford starter, unsure. the relay could be ford, I will check tomorrow in the light.

but the starter solenoid that was in the car looks like it is OEM, it exactly matches the image in my factory manual for 1985 XJ with manual transmission (the automatic transmission has an extra ground coming off the bottom of it)

10009
from factory manual 1985 Cherokees

[4.3LXJ]

The Jeep starter relay looks different than what you have pictured. But if it is cranking, the NSS is working. To see if the relay is working check to see that there is current out the non battery side when starting. You can do it with a test light