Lift Swap Pt 1

[Infidel Edition]

I decided to do the lift swap in the parking lot in our condo complex (no garage)
... which also means no air tools.
Not gonna do that again ~ spring compressors with a standard ratchet = :bang:

Here's what I accomplished over 2 days... (pulled the front suspension from A and B and swapped so that both remain functional...)
Before:

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heavier spring + 2" puck = 5"

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Stock (top 2) replaced with the Adjustable upper and IronMan lower (bottom 2)

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Installed on '93.... with RC drop box (minus back bracket~ pending rocker bars and fit)

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.... still need to do the track bar, T-case drop, and rear leaf springs.
But that'll be next week end or so.

[MattybPDX]

Is that xj ibn the right gold?! Or "khaki" as my wife calls it.

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[Infidel Edition]

..the '89 is Rustoleum spray on bedliner black and sand.


....forgot the after photo (saggy rear waiting for the leaf swap)

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[MattybPDX]

That 93 looks super nice.

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[nickyg]

good job.

We did the lift on my buddies XJ in the employee parking lot at the airport.

[4.3LXJ]

good job.

We did the lift on my buddies XJ in the employee parking lot at the airport.

Throw in a few jet parts? :D

[bluedragon436]

Looking good... And I've done the whole swap using nothing but manual tools, especially on the coil compressors... Hope to never need to do that again.. EVER!!! But either way.. looking like some good progress!!

[Infidel Edition]

good job.

We did the lift on my buddies XJ in the employee parking lot at the airport.

hand ratchet is :bang: not the best use of my arm...
But I remembered a clip from bleepin jeep I think where he said to fully jack up the side before putting on the spring compressor and it saves that much time.
But was a full 2 day job (also put the old XJ back together)

...and then broke the bolt torquing it down = upper control arm to frame @ 66 Lbs ~ and 1 socket fell into the frame.

But went smooth otherwise.

[Infidel Edition]

Swapped the leaf's this weekend.
... plan was to get the complete lift swapped and then adjust everything.
While torquing the front upper control arm (was going to drive to a level area to adjust everything)
:pee:
.... BROKE THE DAMN 8.1 GRADE BOLT!
also discovered the soft line I ordered (95 Dakota) wasn't the line I ordered from RockAuto.

SO~ pending a trip to Tacoma Screw and a correct brake line, this is where I'm at:
* currently has 30's case you're wondering / gonna go with 32"s or 33"s when I'm done

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So by next weekend (less I call in sick for a day or 3... :yack:)
I need to pull the tie rod and steering stabilizer and knock out the alignment and such +
Need to bolt up the back braces on the drop brackets.
Then pull the stock rear gate tire mount from the '89 and cut and mount it onto the '93.

[4.3LXJ]

Dave, using grade 8 bolts on suspension parts is a myth, old wives tale and whatever else you want to call it. I wish it would go away. What you need, is what the factory uses. They are called frame bolts. A grade 8 bolt is hard and brittle, and if flexed a little will break as you know now. A frame bolt is not as hard, but still very strong. More like spring steel and made to take a little flex and not break

[Infidel Edition]

Dave, using grade 8 bolts on suspension parts is a myth, old wives tale and whatever else you want to call it. I wish it would go away. What you need, is what the factory uses. They are called frame bolts. A grade 8 bolt is hard and brittle, and if flexed a little will break as you know now. A frame bolt is not as hard, but still very strong. More like spring steel and made to take a little flex and not break

now ya tell me...

I historically used the factory bolts when doing the work, but the '93 had aftermarket bolts (and a crappy lift = 2.5" add a leaf + 2" puck in front).
Both of the UCA's looked way newer than the rest of the front end ~ my guess is that's when they were changed out.

* I had always used 8. or the 8.8 (is that the top?) for fixed / non flexing things and never thought about the potential lack of strength in other apps.

[4.3LXJ]

Actually, the factory bolts are a frame bolt. They have a black finish from the factory. Mine still are black on my 86.

[abebehrmann]

Dave, using grade 8 bolts on suspension parts is a myth, old wives tale and whatever else you want to call it. I wish it would go away. What you need, is what the factory uses. They are called frame bolts. A grade 8 bolt is hard and brittle, and if flexed a little will break as you know now. A frame bolt is not as hard, but still very strong. More like spring steel and made to take a little flex and not break

This is exactly what I've always heard but then I read this over the weekend:

"Myth 4: Grade 5 Bolts Stretch While Grade 8 Bolts Break
We call this the Butter Bolt Theory, where the claim is that since Grade 8 bolts have a higher tensile strength, they can be brittle. Shear strength of steel fasteners is approximately 60 percent of the ultimate tensile strength, and Grade 8 bolts have a 50 percent higher tensile strength than Grade 5. In addition to greater tensile strength, higher grades of hardware have better shear strength and resistance to fatigue, and they can be torqued to higher values for greater clamping force. The only advantage to Grade 5 is the marginally lower price."

http://www.fourwheeler.com/features/1506-top-10-4x4-myths/

Not sure what to believe now. I think I need to do some more research before I'm convinced because I've found mistakes in Four Wheeler magazine before.

[4.3LXJ]

This is exactly what I've always heard but then I read this over the weekend:

"Myth 4: Grade 5 Bolts Stretch While Grade 8 Bolts Break
We call this the Butter Bolt Theory, where the claim is that since Grade 8 bolts have a higher tensile strength, they can be brittle. Shear strength of steel fasteners is approximately 60 percent of the ultimate tensile strength, and Grade 8 bolts have a 50 percent higher tensile strength than Grade 5. In addition to greater tensile strength, higher grades of hardware have better shear strength and resistance to fatigue, and they can be torqued to higher values for greater clamping force. The only advantage to Grade 5 is the marginally lower price."

http://www.fourwheeler.com/features/1506-top-10-4x4-myths/

Not sure what to believe now. I think I need to do some more research before I'm convinced because I've found mistakes in Four Wheeler magazine before.

I am going to do a pod cast on this, but here is the gist. Grade 8 bolts are hardened with water, and having a higher specific heat, will harden steel harder than something like oil. Frame bolts, at least when our XJs were made, are hardened with oil, like spring steel of that era was. You can further treat it by warming it again to about 400°. This makes it flexible as well as strong. In fact, my old suspension bolts on my Jeep are still black from the oil quench. Now here is where the problem lies. The typical modern Jeep has a nut securely fastened in the frame. Then you feed it through a hole and cinch it down. That hole, for suspension links, is typically just a hair big. This allows the head of the bolt to move slightly and is enough to cause cracks in a bolt that was made to be stretched, but not bent. A frame bolt won't be affected at all by that movement. And yes, Four Wheeler is not the be all and end all. I caught them with a mistake on winching one time, and they even published it :D

[Infidel Edition]

I reached out to IronMan (as that's where I got my UCAs and LCAs) to ask what he would recommend in lieu of the OEM.
... he said to go with no less than a 10.9

This led me to the discrepancy in Grade 8 bolts vs Class 10.9 or SAE .... ##
What I had read was that Grade 8 = Class10.9 = SAE ????

So, I'm going to go with the step higher than 10.9

BTW, it was the stock black bolt that snapped.
I'll post a pic later.

I think this would make for a solid podcast.

[Pinkyman]

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Yay for Xj's with big lifts and small tires on canyons!

Looking good so far!

[Infidel Edition]

Those are 30's. But they look so small with that much lift.

after I get everything aligned / and the rear tire mount on the back...
I'm going to upgrade the exhaust and intake and fuel injectors and ...

Then, I'm going to look at swapping out the tires from 30's for 33's.
But 33's will be the biggest I'd go.

[Pinkyman]

I wasn't making fun. Mine looks almost the same with 30s on canyons, with 4.5" of lift. ��

[MattybPDX]

Those are 30's. But they look so small with that much lift.

after I get everything aligned / and the rear tire mount on the back...
I'm going to upgrade the exhaust and intake and fuel injectors and ...

Then, I'm going to look at swapping out the tires from 30's for 33's.
But 33's will be the biggest I'd go.
I'm probably going no bigger than 31 on my canyons.

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[Infidel Edition]

I wasn't making fun. Mine looks almost the same with 30s on canyons, with 4.5" of lift. ��

I didn't take it as poking at me.
For whatever reason, those 30's look tiny on that jeep with that lift.
Maybe it's the color?
Maybe the wheels...
My '89 had 30's, and cut out fenders... but the tire size looked good
I'll see if I have a good pic for a side by side

[Infidel Edition]

The tire size is 30's on both
The lift is not only the same height.... but it's the SAME LIFT.
.......* the sand/black XJ is where I pulled the lift for the red XJ.
To me, the tire size looks just about right on 1 and small on the other

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Otherwise, the sand/black has obvious front fender trimming.
...and the undercoat is a cleaner black.