Welding Questions

[abebehrmann]

So I finally pulled the trigger and bought a welder for myself. It's a multi-process MIG/Stick welder so I get to learn two different welding methods. The only type of welding I've ever done was with a 125A Flux-Core machine at my dad's shop when I was a kid so there is A LOT I don't know and I have a few questions.

1) I'm planning on learning to strike an arc with 6013 electrodes and then when I get good at that and maintaining an arc I'm going to switch to 7018 to get more penetration. Are there any electrode brands you recommend? Any brands I should stay away from?

2)I will also be picking up a bottle of Argon/CO2 to use with the MIG function, but I'm really not sure what I'm doing here. Eventually I will probably purchase my own bottle but I don't think I can really afford that right now. Any idea the approx. cost of renting a tank from a company like Airgas?

3)If I buy a new tank online labeled for Argon gas, can this be used for mixed Argon/CO2? Does a new or used tank need to be certified by someone somewhere and how often?

4) Any recommended brands/styles of welding gloves, jackets, or helmets? My plan at the moment is to just go to Northern Tool and pick out a set of welding gloves and a helmet and hopefully find an old leather jacket at goodwill, rip out the lining and have that be my welding jacket but if there are comparably priced items I could pick up from somewhere else I'm all ears.

5)Any other tips, tricks, or recommendations?

I'm excited to get started and learn as much as I can. I'm certain I will have more questions as I read/learn more.

[4.3LXJ]

There are about ten thousand questions there Abe. I will answer a couple anyway.

The number on the stick tells you two things. First the first two tell you the tensile strength of the steel in the rod. 60 means 60K psi tensile strength. 70 means 70K

The second two tell you the penetration. The lower the number, the more the penetration. 7018 is stronger, but penetrates less. A number like 8024 is called jet rod. Real pretty and no penetration. It is used for dressing up a weld. You can lay it on the table and walk away and it will make a perfect weld

The color of the cap and collar on the top of the tank tell you what is in it. Change the color and you can change the contents

[abebehrmann]

There are about ten thousand questions there Abe. I will answer a couple anyway.

The number on the stick tells you two things. First the first two tell you the tensile strength of the steel in the rod. 60 means 60K psi tensile strength. 70 means 70K

The second two tell you the penetration. The lower the number, the more the penetration. 7018 is stronger, but penetrates less. A number like 8024 is called jet rod. Real pretty and no penetration. It is used for dressing up a weld. You can lay it on the table and walk away and it will make a perfect weld

The color of the cap and collar on the top of the tank tell you what is in it. Change the color and you can change the contents


Good info Steve.

Sorry about the million questions, I might be a wee bit excited about my new toy.

[cpttuna]

do you have a friend or neighbor that welds? If so invite them over to help you.

[4.3LXJ]

Good info Steve.

Sorry about the million questions, I might be a wee bit excited about my new toy.

No problem. New toys are like that. Incidentally, that looks very very similar to my LTEC machine. You suppose the same people made them?

[XJ Wheeler]

I've only ever run flux core mig so I can't help with most of your questions. But I can suggest to get a quality set of welding gloves (when you're working with your hands in close quarters to your materials you'll really want good ones), an automatic helmet (I got an Antra helmet a while back and has worked out good so far), and a good jacket or apron with additional sleeves. I use an apron and it works well for me. Keeps MOST of it out of my shorts... As well as welding sleeves I got at harbor freight. Those things are great! Really quick to put on and take off and fit tightly to cover your whole arm from pit to wrist. Just got a welding cap but I've only ever had a problem with it coming overhead once so you may wait on that and see if you need it. And if you're welding on your side, say under the jeep, I highly suggest earplugs. I've had it happen and even though I got it out immediately (and frantically I might add) it's still didn't feel very good.

I feel it's important to protect your lungs. Not many talk about it but I'd rather be safe than sorry when it comes to my lungs so I wear a respirator. But you could do a mask for expenses sake.

You may want to get a variety of materials to test on. There can be such a difference in technique from 16 gauge to 3/16" that you may learn one and not even know how to do the other. Also you can write what settings and techniques you used above/around each weld during trial and error to keep track where you need improvement and what worked better.

Good luck Abe and take your time. Don't rush the welds, remember to be mentally focused on what you're doing. I tend to try and thing about further ahead and need to remind myself about the immediate actions. You may not have that problem but I figured it was worth mentioning.

Sent via messenger pigeon. I talk, he types.

[4.3LXJ]

I will second that auto darkening helmet. It is especially important if you are stitching with a MIG. I got a Miller helmet with the largest darkening area I could. Once you get under a vehicle and are not able to get your head and helmet pointed just right, that extra glass in important

[GoneWithTheWind]

I feel it's important to protect your lungs. Not many talk about it but I'd rather be safe than sorry when it comes to my lungs so I wear a respirator.



Sent via messenger pigeon. I talk, he types.

My dad welded for Hyster for a little over 40 years. When he retired the Dr. told him his lungs were like a 2 pack a day smokers. He's 89 now and has had a lot of trouble breathing lately and his hands shake a lot too, something else that welding can cause. A respirator is a great idea!

[Carves]

............. I might be a wee bit excited about my new toy.


Be excited .. :bacondance: ... Welders are great fun.

Im on my third,

... Hopefully, one day ... I'll find a welder salesman - whos not lying thru his teeth, when he says,


This welder will have you welding like a pro in no time .. :rolleyes:


:D:D

A good mask, some proper boots and a pair of gloves would be my first suggestions. Ive survived OK using cotton drill pants and shirts ... altho an apron is handy if you're upside down, under something.

Get as much welding info from fellas as you can, theres probably youtube stuff worth looking at too,

... but essentially its up to you to get a feel for it ... so waste lots of scrap steel, wire and rods practising.

I use an old fan to waft fumes away ... especially if Im using gal steel ... but dont have it blowing directly on the job.


Ohhh ... and dont get too good with the welder ... I hate enough capable/professional welders already .. :o .. :smiley-laughing021:

[downsy]

Welders are great and really open up what you are capable of fixing on your Jeep and what you can build in your own garage. Even the cheapo ARC and Wire welders (Flux wire) are good for most purposes on a Jeep.

I've got an old Arc welder that is Chicago Electric (Harbor Freight) and it's pushing 10 years old now and just keeps on keeping on. Can't kill it. Rewired it for 220volt (dryer) power.

I've also now got a Chicago Electric Wire (flux core) welder. It's a really solid little wire welder. Just toss the spool that comes with it cause the Chinese flux core wire is junk. That's pretty cheap fix.

I grew up welding with Miller MIG and TIG welders and using Lincoln Arc welders, also great welders but if you only weld a few times a year that's a lot of money to spend.

[abebehrmann]

do you have a friend or neighbor that welds? If so invite them over to help you.

Nope, no friends or neighbors in the area that I know of that weld, although I do have a friend back in St. Louis who is a pipe fitter who I could probably send pics of my practice welds for critiques.


No problem. New toys are like that. Incidentally, that looks very very similar to my LTEC machine. You suppose the same people made them?

Not sure but could be. I know this one is made in China but supposedly is made of better materials than most of the Chinese welders out there. I've only read good things about how this one welds, the only complaints I've read is that the fit up of the case is sometimes a little shoddy but nothing a few minutes with a screw driver wouldn't fix.


I've only ever run flux core mig so I can't help with most of your questions. But I can suggest to get a quality set of welding gloves (when you're working with your hands in close quarters to your materials you'll really want good ones), an automatic helmet (I got an Antra helmet a while back and has worked out good so far), and a good jacket or apron with additional sleeves. I use an apron and it works well for me. Keeps MOST of it out of my shorts... As well as welding sleeves I got at harbor freight. Those things are great! Really quick to put on and take off and fit tightly to cover your whole arm from pit to wrist. Just got a welding cap but I've only ever had a problem with it coming overhead once so you may wait on that and see if you need it. And if you're welding on your side, say under the jeep, I highly suggest earplugs. I've had it happen and even though I got it out immediately (and frantically I might add) it's still didn't feel very good.

I feel it's important to protect your lungs. Not many talk about it but I'd rather be safe than sorry when it comes to my lungs so I wear a respirator. But you could do a mask for expenses sake.

You may want to get a variety of materials to test on. There can be such a difference in technique from 16 gauge to 3/16" that you may learn one and not even know how to do the other. Also you can write what settings and techniques you used above/around each weld during trial and error to keep track where you need improvement and what worked better.

Good luck Abe and take your time. Don't rush the welds, remember to be mentally focused on what you're doing. I tend to try and thing about further ahead and need to remind myself about the immediate actions. You may not have that problem but I figured it was worth mentioning.

Sent via messenger pigeon. I talk, he types.

Thanks for the tips Jake! Good idea with the journal idea, I have one for my Jeep and it sounds like a great idea to use one for my welding practice. Already ordered the auto-darkening helmet. When I was younger and welding I had an cheap old school helmet, really made it almost impossible to see unless you had an arc going.

I plan on practicing a bunch before I do anything, I don't think I'll really be welding anything of much substance for at least a few months until I really get comfortable laying down beads consistently.


My dad welded for Hyster for a little over 40 years. When he retired the Dr. told him his lungs were like a 2 pack a day smokers. He's 89 now and has had a lot of trouble breathing lately and his hands shake a lot too, something else that welding can cause. A respirator is a great idea!

Good call, I already have a large fan out in the garage but I need to remember to keep it positioned properly so my head isn't stuck in a huge plume of smoke whenever I'm welding. Will look into a respirator for times when I can't get the fan positioned just right.



Be excited .. :bacondance: ... Welders are great fun.

Im on my third,

... Hopefully, one day ... I'll find a welder salesman - whos not lying thru his teeth, when he says,


This welder will have you welding like a pro in no time .. :rolleyes:


:D:D

A good mask, some proper boots and a pair of gloves would be my first suggestions. Ive survived OK using cotton drill pants and shirts ... altho an apron is handy if you're upside down, under something.

Get as much welding info from fellas as you can, theres probably youtube stuff worth looking at too,

... but essentially its up to you to get a feel for it ... so waste lots of scrap steel, wire and rods practising.

I use an old fan to waft fumes away ... especially if Im using gal steel ... but dont have it blowing directly on the job.


Ohhh ... and dont get too good with the welder ... I hate enough capable/professional welders already .. :o .. :smiley-laughing021:

Oh yeah, I found this guy on Youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/user/ChuckE2009/videos

He has a series of tutorial videos for Stick, MIG, and TIG welding. Already watched all of them before I even bought the damn machine, hahahaha. Now I'm going back and taking notes with the Stick and MIG videos.

[nhidden31]

You don't want to skimp on the gloves or helmet. I bought a miller helmet for relatively cheap and Tillman gloves. As for a jacket, as long as the majority of your welds aren't overhead, you will be fine with the sleeves.
As for the gas, it's different mixtures for different materials. I use 75/25 for mild steel. Cheap and does the job just fine. Check with your local welding supply store, but most of them will have you open an account and you rent them for fairly cheap (depending on the size). I have a "medium" size tank(measures somewhere about hip high lol and it lasts quite a while). Air gas charges me 35$ to exchange. And I think tanks are supposed to be checked every 5 years or so.
As for MIG wire, I find that Lincoln or Harris works best. Less spatter, but a little more expensive.
Don't be intimidated, it won't take long to figure out how to weld, and you'll pick it up in no time. And it might sound funny, but wear some ear plugs. Getting a nice hot berry in your ear doesn't feel all that great. Good luck buddy

[abebehrmann]

You don't want to skimp on the gloves or helmet. I bought a miller helmet for relatively cheap and Tillman gloves. As for a jacket, as long as the majority of your welds aren't overhead, you will be fine with the sleeves.
As for the gas, it's different mixtures for different materials. I use 75/25 for mild steel. Cheap and does the job just fine. Check with your local welding supply store, but most of them will have you open an account and you rent them for fairly cheap (depending on the size). I have a "medium" size tank(measures somewhere about hip high lol and it lasts quite a while). Air gas charges me 35$ to exchange. And I think tanks are supposed to be checked every 5 years or so.
As for MIG wire, I find that Lincoln or Harris works best. Less spatter, but a little more expensive.
Don't be intimidated, it won't take long to figure out how to weld, and you'll pick it up in no time. And it might sound funny, but wear some ear plugs. Getting a nice hot berry in your ear doesn't feel all that great. Good luck buddy

Thank you for the advice. Good to know about the MIG gases and the recommendation for wire. That will come in handy when I pick those things up next payday. Currently I'm trying my hand at Stick welding until I get the money for all the MIG accessories needed.

I picked up a leather jacket at goodwill for $10 that I've been wearing so far, but it's a bit hot right now so I think I will pick up some of those sleeves this weekend to use during the hotter months when I don't need as much protection.

[nhidden31]

Sparks and berries will still make their way through the sleeves and burn you sometimes. They are just flame retardant. Those burn marks on your arms are another part of being a welder 😂

[abebehrmann]

I think I'm starting to get better at this stick welding thing. Here are a few pics of my practice. This is Hobart 6013 ran at 60V and 100A. I'm pretty sure with my earlier welds I was holding too long of an arc and going too fast, so on that last pad of beads I made an effort to hold as tight an arc as possible and to go slower. I think I could get it a bit better if I were able to crank it up another 10A or so, I'm having trouble holding a tight arc without snuffing it out, but this is the max the machine will go to until I'm able to hook it up to my 220V outlet. All critiques welcome.

[4.3LXJ]

The last pic doesn't look bad. Yes, you can crank up the amps a little. That is always the problem with stick, keeping the lights on

[abebehrmann]

The last pic doesn't look bad. Yes, you can crank up the amps a little. That is always the problem with stick, keeping the lights on

Thank you sir. I was quite proud of that last bead when the slag just lifted off, almost on its own, in one large piece.

[GoneWithTheWind]

I think your ready to try a 90deg. weld, also butt the plates together and work on flat welds. These welds will help you get used to penetration, try to break them apart and look at how deep your weld is. Watch out for undercut and don't let your bead get to big. It looks like your a fast learner! Keep up the good work!

[LizardRunner]

looks like you are getting there, I find that going a bit slower always gives me better beads. I don't Mig weld but I do mixed gas, stick and TIG. When I was welding oil tanks I found that adding dabs of bare rod A-la gas welding really helped the fill with the stick welding rigs we used. I also did a lot of steam pipe welding at that plant (only two of us were certified for that). Most fun I have with welding is anytime I am doing it.

Love the auto dark helmets, if you get leg burns some chaps will help a lot with keeping those down. On the tanks I used chaps and sleeves since those were the areas that seemed to get all the fall out. Keep on practicing and you will be laying down dimes like a pro. (here's my tip; try to use a circular motion and watch the puddle, it will be obvious when you have good penetration and the motion helps form the nice looking bead. )

[GoneWithTheWind]

(here's my tip; try to use a circular motion and watch the puddle, )

It sounds like you've been welding a long time. Were you able to pass x-ray with stick using a circular motion? That's how my dad taught me, but the teacher a boilermaker school (in the early 80's) told me not to weld that way. His thought was that it trapped impurities in the weld. He taught me to weld straight in, straight out. I'm not sure about the strength of the weld, but to me circular is easier and straight takes a more steady hand. I didn't want to work in the shipyards and wound up working with horses instead. I think my lungs are thanking me for that.

[4.3LXJ]

If you want to build up a weld, circular motion will allow you to lay down more metal with less heat. But like your dad, I always went in straight in too. If I needed more metal, I made another pass or two.

[GoneWithTheWind]

I've been thinking about getting a H F $100 w/coupon welder to make brackets and things. Will these things weld 1/8th inch steel?

[LizardRunner]

Steam pipe requires three passes, Oil tanks are usually done with three passes too. I have used straight line, "stitch" and circular runs to weld these types of items. It all depends on having the right settings and correct rods for arc welding. I've been certified for everything except nuclear plants in the past. I've never had a weld not pass x-ray. I can even weld aluminum with mixed gas (TIG is easier but you have to have an ac-dc welder for that). I never weld without a really good respirator on, I even fitted it to my helmet so that I don't have to remember to put it on. As for how long I've been welding, I am 64, learned to weld when I was 15, first certs were when I was 16. However, I only welded professionally while waiting for my laboratory to be built. The company found out I could weld better than most of the hired in welders and they put me to work on the plant I was hired to be the chemist for.

[GoneWithTheWind]

Steam pipe requires three passes, Oil tanks are usually done with three passes too. I have used straight line, "stitch" and circular runs to weld these types of items. It all depends on having the right settings and correct rods for arc welding. I've been certified for everything except nuclear plants in the past. I've never had a weld not pass x-ray. I can even weld aluminum with mixed gas (TIG is easier but you have to have an ac-dc welder for that). I never weld without a really good respirator on, I even fitted it to my helmet so that I don't have to remember to put it on. As for how long I've been welding, I am 64, learned to weld when I was 15, first certs were when I was 16. However, I only welded professionally while waiting for my laboratory to be built. The company found out I could weld better than most of the hired in welders and they put me to work on the plant I was hired to be the chemist for.

The instructor I had was the only person to ever tell me about a circular weld being a bad thing to do, that's why I asked. He was grooming us for the shipyards, a place I didn't want to work. As a result of many arguments, we had a falling out and I moved on. I've always liked working with steel, and sometimes I wish things would have worked out differently. The horses beat my body up pretty good, but I have few regrets.

[LizardRunner]

Wow, ships, yeah, straight line is how they want those plates put together. They want speed and good welds.

[LizardRunner]

Lately I do aluminum boats and motorcycles so TIG is my main thing when I do welding. My favorite has always been mixed gas though.

[abebehrmann]

Speaking of multi-pass welds. Last night I finally took the leap to welding two pieces of metal together. So here is my first try at a multi pass horizontal fillet weld, same electrode and settings as my pad of beads (6013, 60V, 100A). The first pass looks like crap, but I think the other two look pretty good in places although I know since that first one isn't so good the weld isn't the strongest.

Picked up another 130lbs of scrap steel this morning to keep practicing on.

[LizardRunner]

how's the back side look? if you get the rod in there really well you should see some penetration there. The second photo's bead looks lots better. do you make a bridge before you get going along your line?

[abebehrmann]

how's the back side look? if you get the rod in there really well you should see some penetration there. The second photo's bead looks lots better. do you make a bridge before you get going along your line?

You know, I'm not sure about the back side. I'll be sure to take more pics tonight when I do some more practicing. I do think I still could stand to hold a tighter arc, but with the 100A limit I'm at right now it definitely makes it hard especially when I first strike the arc.

I'm not sure what you mean by "make a bridge". Could you explain a bit more? Sorry, still new to this and don't know a lot of the terminology yet.

[4.3LXJ]

Abe, when doing that do your first pass. Then weld as though you are filling in the side up to or almost up to the top of the first pass, Then make the third

[downsy]

Not to HIjack but it is welding related. I've been welding on an off since I was a kid. Never wore a respirator. But after 12 years in the military now and seeing the kind of hazardous stuff I'm exposed to everyday I want to pick up my own respirator for welding/painting/metal work ect in the garage.

Does anyone have a respirator recommendation that won't break the bank? Was browsing amazon and looking at the ones below that are well within my price range. Would like it to take multi-purpose cartridges. Basically I'd like it take a cartridge that can protect me from welding gases/paint/and particulate matter like metal dust/wood dust. I haven't really messed with them outside of work I assume the base masks can take most filter canisters.

MSA Safety Works 817664 Toxic Dust Respirator - Dust Mask - Amazon.com@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41U6R7gWanL.@@AMEPARAM@@41U6R7gWanL

MSA Safety Works 817663 Multi-Purpose Respirator - Papr Safety Respirators - Amazon.com@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41NB1ZW0HRL.@@AMEPARAM@@41NB1ZW0HRL

5400 Series Low Maintenance Full Facepiece Respirators -med/large full face respirator- Cartridges Not Included - - Amazon.com@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41gRVIFny1L.@@AMEPARAM@@41gRVIFny1L

[XJ Wheeler]

I went with the 3m 7500 series personally. Its the updated version of their 6000 series. Good price and 3m offer numerous cartridges for a lot of different uses. Although i mainly use it for grinding. I went with the large (#7503) personally cause of my big noggin, but they offer the small (#7501) and medium (#7502).

3m 7500 Series Half Facepiece Respirators - 7503 SEPTLS1427503 - Safety Respirator Cartridges And Filters - Amazon.com@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41yAovGnXmL.@@AMEPARAM@@41yAovGnXmL

Sent via messenger pigeon - i talk, he types.

[LizardRunner]

I think the biggest issue is to get one that fits you with no leaks. I have a Norton that was free to me from Norton. All those shown look to be decent units, cartridges are fairly well interchangeable between brands as long as they install the same.

[LizardRunner]

You know, I'm not sure about the back side. I'll be sure to take more pics tonight when I do some more practicing. I do think I still could stand to hold a tighter arc, but with the 100A limit I'm at right now it definitely makes it hard especially when I first strike the arc.

I'm not sure what you mean by "make a bridge". Could you explain a bit more? Sorry, still new to this and don't know a lot of the terminology yet.

A bridge is when you make a spot weld from one piece to the other, it connects the two pieces so your ground is fully functional. It is easier to strike an arc on the piece that has the ground attached to it first, then you join the other piece with the bridge. From there getting good penetration is easier.