Overheat and Seize

[OGCollard]

:mad:Well, I blew a lower radiator hose. Made a bad judgement call and had to roll for about 5-8 minutes. engine was sounding pretty rough and smoking when I was able to shut Christine off. She did not want to start right away but about 20 minutes after she did turn over. Towed her home. Let her sit on the street for a few hours, turned her on and moved her behind the house. There was like a new spinning metal sound coming out of the engine when I went up the driveway. Figure sunday morning I will replace the hose, change the oil, and fill up with coolant and start her up. I did check the oil after this happened and it looked pretty clean on the stick.

Here are my questions: What should I be checking to look for any engine damage? I imagine checking the oil, and coolant and make sure they stay clean after driving. I have a new radiator, water pump, thermo and thermo housing to put on it. This is my hunting vehicle and I don't know what signs are gonna tell me it is safe to take 100 miles out of town into the field. Suggestions?

[Mudderoy]

:mad:Well, I blew a lower radiator hose. Made a bad judgement call and had to roll for about 5-8 minutes. engine was sounding pretty rough and smoking when I was able to shut Christine off. She did not want to start right away but about 20 minutes after she did turn over. Towed her home. Let her sit on the street for a few hours, turned her on and moved her behind the house. There was like a new spinning metal sound coming out of the engine when I went up the driveway. Figure sunday morning I will replace the hose, change the oil, and fill up with coolant and start her up. I did check the oil after this happened and it looked pretty clean on the stick.

Here are my questions: What should I be checking to look for any engine damage? I imagine checking the oil, and coolant and make sure they stay clean after driving. I have a new radiator, water pump, thermo and thermo housing to put on it. This is my hunting vehicle and I don't know what signs are gonna tell me it is safe to take 100 miles out of town into the field. Suggestions?

I think the thing you have to watch out for are collapsed rings. Can you do a compression test on the cylinders?

[4.3LXJ]

There are a couple of things to watch. First is oil pressure. Make sure it is what it was. Second, it is probably a lead pipe cinch that you lost a head gasket. Better plan on changing that. But verify first if it is gone. If it is bad you will have unusual pressure building in the cooling system and possibly coolant in the oil. So check it very often for milky residue. And yes, you can cook the rings and take the temper out of them. Did that once on a Jeep I was racing

[OGCollard]

The positive thing out of it is the engine did not lock up. since I did not have any readings for comparison from before would a compression check be beneficial? What pattern would I be looking for if it is okay?

Head gasket, yes I am concerned about that. will know more on sunday morning......

[4.3LXJ]

It is not the pattern, it is the numbers. You should have something in the neighborhood of 140 psi in each cylinder. So even if you have fairly equal pressures at 80 for instance, then your compression rings are bad and need to be replaced as well probably the oil rings which will not work well either

[OGCollard]

Changed oil. Replaced radiator hose. Replaced coolant. Ran engine. Oil pressure a little hIgher. Seemed to hold temp. What fuse would be for fuel pump? I need to pull the fuse so i can do compression test tomorrow i believe? I dont have any manuals on this thing...

[4.3LXJ]

Check the lid of the power distribution center. There will be a small relay labeled fuel pump. Just pull it

[OGCollard]

Did not do compression test yet. Do have more info though. Yesterday when i brought her to temp the radiator cap was off. Today i got her to turn over and left cap on and she started leaking coolant from the skinny hose right below the radaitor cap and lays lengthwise next to edge of radiator. This makes me think maybe the pressure has changed in the cooling system cause this leak was going on before the engine was anywhere close to iperating temp

[Pookapotamus]

That hose is for the coolant overflow, should be no pressure at all, if it is leaking from there your cap might be done.

[OGCollard]

so its not a lock yet but dang sure close. if I gotta crack this head open on the jeep. anything you would recommend replacing while in there? Lifters, rods, rings? I have a feeling I may need a whole new cylinder head since its a 2000. I know it had head work by previous owner but not sure if they replaced the head or just did head gasket....

[OGCollard]

Compression test results....from firewall to radiator....159,131,149,160,128,150....is it possible one of the higher cylinders is full of coolant giving false reading?

[4.3LXJ]

You have #2 and 5 reading a little low. Might be loosing pressure out the head gasket. That would explain the high coolant pressure

[OGCollard]

Yup gonna start taking crap off it this weekend. And ducument everything!

[OGCollard]

Well started the process. Will get head machined or replaced and repalce entire cooling system at aame time. Pulled airbox, radiator shroud , thermostat housing, hoses, and coolant reservoir today. Have to go buy the clippy things to remove the power steering line before pulling radiator

[Mudderoy]

Well started the process. Will get head machined or replaced and repalce entire cooling system at aame time. Pulled airbox, radiator shroud , thermostat housing, hoses, and coolant reservoir today. Have to go buy the clippy things to remove the power steering line before pulling radiator

I cut those off and used hose clamp.

[OGCollard]

Tonight pulled radiator, water pump n moved power steering pump. Tomorrow is airconditioner. I will have assistance for fuel rail intake and exhaust manifolds

[OGCollard]

Well i got valve cover off. Manifolds next. under the valve cover was spotless. No grime. No chocolate milk. But behind the waterpump you can clearly see oil in the coolant.....still thinking its the head but it was just amazingly clean under the valve cover. I expected some grime...

[OGCollard]

A question for the forum. kind of a silly one but hey, gonna ask anyway. are the intake and exhaust manifolds held to the block with actual bolts or are any of them studs that I am just removing the nut off of?

[4.3LXJ]

The factory method is just bolts. However I supposed somebody could put studs in

[Mudderoy]

Isn't there a stud on the very back of the exhaust manifold? Or is that just 97+

[4.3LXJ]

There wasn't on the TJ engine, but who knows

[Mudderoy]

There wasn't on the TJ engine, but who knows

Ahhhh okay, thought we were talking about a Cherokee.

[4.3LXJ]

We are. The TJ is a 98, just took one out of a 94 XJ with no studs

[OGCollard]

Hopefully this was successful. Here is a pic under the valve cover.

[OGCollard]

sweet it was successful attachment of pic

[OGCollard]

Manifolds off. Should be pulling the head sunday afternoon

[OGCollard]

Head gasket was fouled. Oil and coolant in back cylinder. Not much as far as rings left. Will replace rings, get head checked out at shop, and redo head gasket. Then add my new cooling system and all should be good right?

[4.3LXJ]

That would probably do it unless you find damage to the bearings when you pull the pistons

[OGCollard]

Yeah. Well hopefully i dont. never did this big a wrench job before. Feels like i am swapping everything out!

[4.3LXJ]

You almost are :D

[OGCollard]

So there seems to be a little build up at top of cylinders. It creates a slight ring at top of cylinder. It goes down about 1/8 of an inch from the top of cylinder. You can tell the piston does not go all the way up to very top of cylinder. Should i remove this combustion residue? If so, how to without scoring cylinder wall?

[4.3LXJ]

What you are describing is called a ridge. What you see is not where the top of the piston goes, but where the compression rings stop. You can remove the residue or leave it. It will make no difference

[OGCollard]

Need opinions. Head cracked in same spot it was repaired by previous owner. From water port to head bolt. It is also warped. They can deck it for 60 and straighten it but cannot repair crack. Know where i can get decent iron cast head assembled for 500 or less to replace this head with?

[Mudderoy]

Need opinions. Head cracked in same spot it was repaired by previous owner. From water port to head bolt. It is also warped. They can deck it for 60 and straighten it but cannot repair crack. Know where i can get decent iron cast head assembled for 500 or less to replace this head with?

I don't know anything about these people but they have good ebay rating...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/160845435194?lpid=82&chn=ps

$325 free shipping

[4.3LXJ]

Found another on ebay for $599. Says it is a performance head

[OGCollard]

Anyone heard of www.mechanicsselectcylinderheads.com??

[OGCollard]

NAPA can do a remanned one for $450. I think it may be worth the extra bucks to get from brick and mortar place like NAPA. I would suspect they have good parts!

[OGCollard]

Sorry for so many questions guys but i have some more. Someone told me if i do not remove the ridge at top of cylinder i run the risk of shattering the top ring, true or false? Am i really gonna have to jack jeep up to lower oil pan? Is it taller than clearance on stock jeep on 31 tires? And, to do the piston rings can i drop them down from underneath or do i have to remove through top, which obviously would require knocking the ridge down?

[4.3LXJ]

If you put new rings in, then yes you must ridge reem that out. The auto machine shop

[cantab27]

if I remember right oil pan or sump as I call em can be a PITA to drop on stock jeep....when I did rear main seal pan was fun ....jack it up front end suspension drops down and pan can slide out ....

[JENSSEN]

2000 and 2001 had issues with heads find an 02-06 head or this may happen,..

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu235/RACE4THECURE/399D0B8D-8715-4BDA-833D-7BDBA6C50C12.jpg

[OGCollard]

Before i go crazy with a ridge reaming tool, i think i want to try to get the carbon down and see what i can do by hand on the carbon. Anyone have good tips on what to use to eat that carbon up?

[Mudderoy]

Before i go crazy with a ridge reaming tool, i think i want to try to get the carbon down and see what i can do by hand on the carbon. Anyone have good tips on what to use to eat that carbon up?

Do you know if it's a carbon ring or the metal has been worn down making this a metal ring?

[OGCollard]

I dont know the answer to that question. Would not be able to tell until i had the carbon off and could see whats under it.

[OGCollard]

Allright. I know this project and this thread seems like forever. Got the ridges cleaned up. Only had to actually ream one out. Next step is removing pistons, honing cylinders and put new rings on. Any suggestions on best easiest way to remove pistons?

[OGCollard]

So we are finally there. Will start doing bearings and rings in the next night or so. Figure when i put pistons rings caps on and such i will give them a coating of oil before assembly. My question is after the motor has sat for quite some time now when i do go to start it there will be no oil throughout it. It will all be in drainpan. Is there a certain sequence i should do for the first start to get oil up in there?

[4.3LXJ]

Make sure your hands are clean during reassembly and use power punch or assembly grease on the bearing surface so they don't get scratched on the first start

[Pookapotamus]

You can always pull the distributor, use a flat blade screwdriver in a drill and run the oil pump to prime it before the first start.

[4.3LXJ]

Also run the starter with the plugs removed until the battery runs down, then recharge and put the plugs in

[Mudderoy]

So we are finally there. Will start doing bearings and rings in the next night or so. Figure when i put pistons rings caps on and such i will give them a coating of oil before assembly. My question is after the motor has sat for quite some time now when i do go to start it there will be no oil throughout it. It will all be in drainpan. Is there a certain sequence i should do for the first start to get oil up in there?

Use assembly lube on the rod bearings. You can also spin up the oil pump with a drill. You are changing the oil pump, right?

[Mudderoy]

Use assembly lube on the rod bearings. You can also spin up the oil pump with a drill. You are changing the oil pump, right?

[OGCollard]

I was not changing the oil pump cause it was working fine and the filter was clean as a whistle. On another note. I fully extended the brake caliper piston. The other caliper is all hooked up and on new rotors. However the caliper piston will not compress. I do not beleive it is seized cause it moved when i pumped the brakes......do i need to bleed that brake line to get it to compress? It will not compress with my c clamp

[4.3LXJ]

You can use a big C clamp or you can get a piston compressor tool cheap at an auto parts store. I have one, used it many times

[OGCollard]

Thats what i have. A big c clamp. The piston is not backing down and it was moving last night. If it extends all the way out do i need to rotate it before clamping to make it go down? I have heard of having to do that on other cars. Rotate it then c clamp it

[Mudderoy]

Are you changing the lifters?

[4.3LXJ]

Thats what i have. A big c clamp. The piston is not backing down and it was moving last night. If it extends all the way out do i need to rotate it before clamping to make it go down? I have heard of having to do that on other cars. Rotate it then c clamp it

You can try bleeding it down then

[Mudderoy]

You can try bleeding it down then

I had to do that on the 99 (I think) Damn Jeeps are blending together.

[4.3LXJ]

I had to do that on the 99 (I think) Damn Jeeps are blending together.

Enter the "Jeep Fog" :smiley-taunt002:

[OGCollard]

No not lifters. I am re-ringing the pistons, honing cylinders, and replacing rod bearings.

[OGCollard]

Due to budget constraints and lack of equipment i am not able to pull engine and have crank and cam shafts checked out.

[OGCollard]

Well after seeing my crankshaft this just turned into pulling engine, getting crank machined, replacing oil pump main bearings and seals. Should certainly be good to go after that. Rabbit hole does not go deeper than your engine leaving your jeep!

[Mudderoy]

Well after seeing my crankshaft this just turned into pulling engine, getting crank machined, replacing oil pump main bearings and seals. Should certainly be good to go after that. Rabbit hole does not go deeper than your engine leaving your jeep!

What did you see?

[OGCollard]

I will try to post pics tomorrow but it was scored pretty good under the rod caps. I had two mechanics look and they said they would not hang all the new parts on it. Enough for me to hear. It is mainly more work than money now to pull engine and get crank machined. Already have rod bearings on order. Will switch them out for right size and get new oil pump and main bearings....wife is pissed bit understands. My daily driver pickup is almost dead so i gotta get something running good....

[OGCollard]

Some pics

[OGCollard]

hopefully this works

[slvmart]

Reposted with Quote from original question.

[slvmart]

I was not changing the oil pump cause it was working fine and the filter was clean as a whistle. On another note. I fully extended the brake caliper piston. The other caliper is all hooked up and on new rotors. However the caliper piston will not compress. I do not beleive it is seized cause it moved when i pumped the brakes......do i need to bleed that brake line to get it to compress? It will not compress with my c clamp

Just a quick one on the rotating of the caliper piston. This is necessary on some rear disc brakes, as the parking brake is adjusted by the caliper piston position (in or out). There is a tool that can be used to accomplish this. For example this applies to VW/AUDI and Mazdas.

[OGCollard]

Well. Got the caliper in so new rotors and pads on front. Wheels on, lowered back down. And after 3.5 hours tonight. Jeep engine is out of jeep! Will go on stand sunday and pull the crankshaft. Figure i better do this right. I dont wanna do it again for a long time. Although i do have 2 cherokees.......

[OGCollard]

Questions! So engine is on stand. I have all pistons out, numbered and marked so i know what goes where and which direction. I pulled main bearings 1-6 and did the same. Still have the pulley on crank in front and whatever the crank sticks through in the back. I also still have main bearing 7 on. 1) can i reuse the bolts on main bearings? Did not feel like they were stretch to fit like head bolts. 2) trick for getting bearing 7 out? It did not tap off like the other 6. 3) trick for getting fromt pulley off on stand? 4) do i have to pull the back end off or will it lift out when i get bearing 7 off? Any help is greatly appreciated. Mudderoy - definately replacing oil pump in this venture now!! :)

[4.3LXJ]

Most people put the engine back side on the stand. Most stands are made for that. Yes you can reuse the main bearing bolts. Number 7 should just come out, may need to tap with a hammer lightly or better yet use a dead blow to loosen it up

[OGCollard]

I appreciate the input 4.3. So good to know i just need to whack seven a little harder. Will the crank lift out of that side when bearing seven is removed? The back side of engine is whats hanging on the stand. I mean bearing 7 is closest to stand, bearing 1 is on "loose" end. Any tricks for removing the pulley that the serpentine belt rides on since it spins free?

[4.3LXJ]

You may need to use a puller. To get that crank out, you will need to remove the timing cover after you pull the pulley. Then it should lift out

[OGCollard]

Is the crankshaft pulley on front of engine also known as the harmonic balancer? I am thinking yes but want to make sure...

[OGCollard]

Ok so got everything off the block and going to have block hot tanked. Is it best to hone cylinders before or after hot tank. Note i am having them put camshaft in block before i pick it up

[4.3LXJ]

Do all your stuff before so it will be clean inside and out

[OGCollard]

I also saw that there is a very specific process for breaking in flat tappet camshaft and lifters. Will have to study up on that for sure!

[4.3LXJ]

Yes, and use Valvoline Racing oil to do it also. It has lots of additive for flat tappet cams

[OGCollard]

Well gonna clean block up a little before it gets hot tanked on friday. So excited i could be reassembling next week. While i am waiting for the block, the wifes 99 blew a wheel cylinder. Gives me a little project. Although i hate drum brakes. Wife has not been able to drive so she has not seen or felt the blown wheel cylinder. She thinks im doing it for fun. I told her drum brakes are only fun if you like annoying and frustrating!

[bluedragon436]

Well gonna clean block up a little before it gets hot tanked on friday. So excited i could be reassembling next week. While i am waiting for the block, the wifes 99 blew a wheel cylinder. Gives me a little project. Although i hate drum brakes. Wife has not been able to drive so she has not seen or felt the blown wheel cylinder. She thinks im doing it for fun. I told her drum brakes are only fun if you like annoying and frustrating!

Yeah I fully agree on the only way drum brakes are fun... with the added fun from tossing them into the trash, and replacing with much better disc option!! LOL

[OGCollard]

Going back to engine break-in. I have read about needing to remove some springs on the cylinder head? Can anyone provide me with a process on breaking this in or do you have a link for it? I will also check my chiltons.

[Mudderoy]

Going back to engine break-in. I have read about needing to remove some springs on the cylinder head? Can anyone provide me with a process on breaking this in or do you have a link for it? I will also check my chiltons.

I thought it just involved adding zinc to the oil and running the engine at set RPMs for a set period of time.

[OGCollard]

Mudderoy, what i read is you need to run it with a break-in oil for 25-45 minutes between 1500-2500 rpm, varying within that spec, not just holding one set rpm. The two things i am curious about are this. 1) i read about taking the inner springs out of the valve if the valve has more than one spring. It appears as though the cylinder head for our jeeps only has one spring per valve. Is that correct or am i mossing something. 2) talks about priming the engine so it starts quick the first time. Not to let it crank and crank. I have the spark rail and nodistributor so i dont know how to get the oil distributed around the cam prior to startup. Also how does one prime the fuel system so there is plenty of fuel for a quick start. Any ideas?

[slvmart]

FYI (from Jeep Strokers) :
http://www.jeepstrokers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2059

[OGCollard]

So if I have to get this engine bored out a touch and need to get .01 or .02 oversized ppistons, can use my old rods that the pistons sit on?

[4.3LXJ]

Yes

[Mudderoy]

You can also take a dremel tool, a scale and get all your pistons/rods the same weight for a very well balanced engine...:patriot:

[OGCollard]

Update on the cylinder head swap turned into engine rebuild. Crankshaft, repaired at machine shop. They measured out the cylinders in the block and they were borderline in spec. They said .5 at the top and .3 at the bottom I believe. Rather than risk putting it together like that and running, went with a bore. they will bore them over .3 and I will get new pistons. Want to do this job only once on this Cherokee. So, with new pistons, that means the only two guts to the engine that are not new will be the connecting rods for the pistons and the crankshaft which is now machined. I would say this should turn out well, assuming I put it back together correctly

[OGCollard]

Been a while since I have posted on this thread. Been sitting in a waiting pattern on it. Tomorrow I get the engine back from machine shop. bottom half completely rebuilt. Gonna shoot for hanging all the brackets on and getting the plugs all connected by tomorrow night, hang everything and put new radiator in by tomorrow night. Ambitious but I am hoping to turn it on on Sunday. Wish me luck!!!

[Mudderoy]

Been a while since I have posted on this thread. Been sitting in a waiting pattern on it. Tomorrow I get the engine back from machine shop. bottom half completely rebuilt. Gonna shoot for hanging all the brackets on and getting the plugs all connected by tomorrow night, hang everything and put new radiator in by tomorrow night. Ambitious but I am hoping to turn it on on Sunday. Wish me luck!!!

It's not bad, just very time consuming turning all those bolts. I recommend some lock tight on the transmission to engine bolts.

[OGCollard]

Ok. Once again, thank you for all the advice. My timing was overly optimistic, but i am at the stage of installing the old pushrods and rocker arms. So, here are my questions....1) will i feel the pushrod click into the seat of the lifter at all or just feel for when it is at its lowest point? 2) do i need to rotate the pistons so each lifter is at its lowest point when i put in each pushrod? 3) if i do have to rotate the pistons is that going to damage anything since there is no oil in it?

[Mudderoy]

Ok. Once again, thank you for all the advice. My timing was overly optimistic, but i am at the stage of installing the old pushrods and rocker arms. So, here are my questions....1) will i feel the pushrod click into the seat of the lifter at all or just feel for when it is at its lowest point? 2) do i need to rotate the pistons so each lifter is at its lowest point when i put in each pushrod? 3) if i do have to rotate the pistons is that going to damage anything since there is no oil in it?

1) I didn't. Used a flash light to make sure it was sitting in the lifter.
2) I didn't.
3) No. You'll hear lot of lifter shatter when you first start it because the lifters haven't pumped up yet.

Check each pushrod is straight, and you can see clearly through it before installing. I can't remember if we put engine building lube or oil on both ends of the pushrod now. :(

[OGCollard]

I put assembly lube on both ends. Few questions after rocker arm installation. Cylinder #5 one pushrod was about 1/8 inch higher than other. 98% sure im in the lifter cup too. Also, i can rock some rockers up and down but not all. Also a couple rockers will move side to side even though they are torqued to spec. Thoughts?

[4.3LXJ]

Some of the valves will be forced open when you tighten the rockers down

[OGCollard]

Loctite. After i used blue loctite on #11 headbolt i learned the reason for it. To keep coolant from going up the threads of that headbolt into the cylinder head. Now it calls for red loctite. Please tell me i should be okay with the blue....

[OGCollard]

So i really think i need proper loctite on head bolt 11. Especially since it sat for 2 hours drying between 45 lbs torquing and 100 lbs torquing. Question is this, should i remove all and redo all since they were brand new bolts, back them all off to 45 or just take #11 out since it is torqued lowest anyway?

[4.3LXJ]

Yup, better redo the whole thing. If you are using lock tite you need to do your torquing all at once. Once you quit, it should be a done deal

[OGCollard]

Rocker arm pivots. They have grooves on the rolling side between them and rocker. They are wider apart on one side vs the other. The wide side goes towards back of rocker, correct? The side that sits on pushrod...

[OGCollard]

Well it is starting to look like an engine. lubed up the lifters with assembly lube before putting them in. used assembly lube on rod ends and rocker arm pivots. one thing I noticed, most of the rockers have a little side to side play. I have read that this may not be a problem. rockers are new, rods are new, cylinder head is remanned. rockers torqued to 19 lbs. seems like the design of the pivot being what is bolted into the head with the rockers not touching the cylinder head post it bolts into it would almost be impossible to not have a little side to side play. could this be rockers that do not have any spring tension on them cause the valve is closed?

[Mudderoy]

Well it is starting to look like an engine. lubed up the lifters with assembly lube before putting them in. used assembly lube on rod ends and rocker arm pivots. one thing I noticed, most of the rockers have a little side to side play. I have read that this may not be a problem. rockers are new, rods are new, cylinder head is remanned. rockers torqued to 19 lbs. seems like the design of the pivot being what is bolted into the head with the rockers not touching the cylinder head post it bolts into it would almost be impossible to not have a little side to side play. could this be rockers that do not have any spring tension on them cause the valve is closed?

I'd recommend manually turning the engine over to be sure there isn't any obstructions. You'll want to turn it all the way back to TDC, which I think is when the #1 piston is coming up so you can stab the distributor. Be really careful with the distributor, a tooth off it will run, but it won't be right.

[OGCollard]

Thanks for the advice mudderoy! Couple questions on that. 1) engine is totally dry except for assembly lube and its new lifters and cams. Is it okay to rotate by hand one time with no oil? Dont want to screw up the cam. Also, i have no distributor. I have the "thingy", technical term, that hooks up with cam that holds the cam shaft position sensor on it. I beleive that is where the distributor cap on older engines sat? Since the sensor is on there is it as important to make sure it is back at top dead center? And how will i know its top dead center since the cylinder head is bolted on? Sorry to sound foolish.

[Mudderoy]

Thanks for the advice mudderoy! Couple questions on that. 1) engine is totally dry except for assembly lube and its new lifters and cams. Is it okay to rotate by hand one time with no oil? Dont want to screw up the cam. Also, i have no distributor. I have the "thingy", technical term, that hooks up with cam that holds the cam shaft position sensor on it. I beleive that is where the distributor cap on older engines sat? Since the sensor is on there is it as important to make sure it is back at top dead center? And how will i know its top dead center since the cylinder head is bolted on? Sorry to sound foolish.

Well you're turning it by hand and without plugs it should be really easy to turn with a 1/2 ratchet on the crank bolt.

You have assembly lube on the rod bearing and mains, right?

When we did mine there wasn't oil in it. Just assembly lube. It's not like your going to be turning it a lot anyway.

[OGCollard]

Machine shop did the bottom end but i saw lube on the cam and everything when i was putting lifters in. Plus they gave me lube to use. How am i going to tell i am back at tdc with the head bolted on?

[OGCollard]

Went back and rechecked torque. Its correct. The call on rockers that i cannot move being on valves that are open is spot on. Still seems like a bit of side to side action. Someone i talked to said the same thing i read here in that the play should disappear when everything gets pumped up with oil. Want to manually crank it but not sure how to tell when i am back at top dead center for when i put the distributor back in. Any thoughts or advice on all this? Should the play disappear once pumped up and finding top dead center?

[OGCollard]

So i did not rotate engine for rocker arms. Put them on and torqued them down. I did rotate engine to check for any obstructions and such. All seemed well. Some rockers still had some sode to side play but figured what i read was correct about the engine juicing up with oil will take some of that away. So onto other news. Glued valve cover on and we put the engine in tonight! We would have had it on the first stab but right before we were gonna put bell housing bolts in i realized i did not put the flat plates behind the flex plate so up came the engine and off came the flywheel. However we got it on the next stab. Smooth as butter. Now comes the long haul of hanging wverything on there. Any suggestions o b how to find tdc when i put distributor in with the valve cover glued on?

[Mudderoy]

So i did not rotate engine for rocker arms. Put them on and torqued them down. I did rotate engine to check for any obstructions and such. All seemed well. Some rockers still had some sode to side play but figured what i read was correct about the engine juicing up with oil will take some of that away. So onto other news. Glued valve cover on and we put the engine in tonight! We would have had it on the first stab but right before we were gonna put bell housing bolts in i realized i did not put the flat plates behind the flex plate so up came the engine and off came the flywheel. However we got it on the next stab. Smooth as butter. Now comes the long haul of hanging wverything on there. Any suggestions o b how to find tdc when i put distributor in with the valve cover glued on?

Well you have the mark on the harmonic balancer, and you can see in the number one spark plug hole. So I think you need to watch for the piston coming up as you watch the TDC mark on the harmonic balancer hit the mark on the timing cover.

Did you put that little spring in the end of the cam shaft?

[OGCollard]

I have to assume it was there. Since i have not done anything like this i had the machine shop remove cam and actually assemble the bottom half of engine. They wanted 250 to do it, i dont know what i am doing there, and there is no margine for error so i had them do it. They have a great rep and are really smart so i am sure they did the job right.

[OGCollard]

I have never replaced the water pump on an emgine before. All i have ever done was replace some shocks and change sensors so i did not want to leave ot up to me to screw up. Plus they have much better tools for it....

[Mudderoy]

I have to assume it was there. Since i have not done anything like this i had the machine shop remove cam and actually assemble the bottom half of engine. They wanted 250 to do it, i dont know what i am doing there, and there is no margine for error so i had them do it. They have a great rep and are really smart so i am sure they did the job right.

That's what worries me about having someone else do something so critical to the "life" of the Jeep. I mean I'm okay with someone doing it I trust, if I can watch them and ask questions. :D Basically a nightmare for the builder.

[Mudderoy]

I have never replaced the water pump on an emgine before. All i have ever done was replace some shocks and change sensors so i did not want to leave ot up to me to screw up. Plus they have much better tools for it....

I hear ya! I'm still not 100% confident when I'm doing somethings on the Jeep, water pump, yeah done that 6 or 7 times now. :D

[OGCollard]

Here is a pic of the engine in. Going to start hanging stuff on it after work tonight. Hopefully turn it on after 3 months on sunday!!!

[Mudderoy]

Pretty

[OGCollard]

well last night got the passenger side of engine all setup, just have to put in new coolant reservoir and hoses. we also go manifolds on the drivers side. will put another few hours in tonight and finish her up tomorrow night hopefully. Plan to put the fluids in her tomorrow night and leave radiator cap off so hopefully she burps out some air. tonight will probably be thermo housing and waterpump and powersteering pump.

[OGCollard]

Tonight i got the power steering pump, water pump, thermo and thermo housing, installed radiator, tightened tranny lines to oil pan, new coolant reservoir and attached some hoses. What i have left....bolt flexplate to tranny and put starter on, put main engine fan on, install radiator/electric fan shroud, serpentine belt, couple more hoses and air intake. Then step back, think really hard about what i could have forgotten, then fill it with oil and coolant and let sit overnight

[OGCollard]

Almost there!! I know I know I need a belt and that hose does not go there!! :D

[OGCollard]

Thoughts. So when i put this back together i used a timing set cover from older model that fit right up. Problem is if you are looking right at it from front it has a solid doo hickey (technical term) at about 1 oclock. Well eveything went together smooth, i put the serpentine belt on it and as it goes from the crankshaft pulley to the tensioner pulley the groove side rubs on it ever so slightly. Do you think i may be able to cut that down a quarter inch with angle grinder so i do not hit the belt?

[Mudderoy]

Thoughts. So when i put this back together i used a timing set cover from older model that fit right up. Problem is if you are looking right at it from front it has a solid doo hickey (technical term) at about 1 oclock. Well eveything went together smooth, i put the serpentine belt on it and as it goes from the crankshaft pulley to the tensioner pulley the groove side rubs on it ever so slightly. Do you think i may be able to cut that down a quarter inch with angle grinder so i do not hit the belt?

I'd say yes, but I don't understand what the belt is touching.

[OGCollard]

In the attached pic. Top right. Just to the right of the timing marks on the cover.the cylinder thingy. It appears just to be a solid cylinrical piece of aluminum. What is its purpose?

[OGCollard]

It was pulled off older jeep. The craced one that came off my jeep did not have that piece

[Mudderoy]

Oh I think we had to remove that on my engine rebuild.

[OGCollard]

Wish i had thought of that before it was all together. I think my angle grinder can get to it and just use light pressure i can cut it out of the way.

[Mudderoy]

I WANT TO READ... IT'S RUNNING! :popcorn:

[OGCollard]

Believe me i want write its running. Hopefully soon. Waiting on buddy to help me with last bits. I need four arms!!

[OGCollard]

Well, 8-2, judgement day. Will let you all know how it works out. Would be lying if i did not admit to being poop my pants nervous!

[autotech98]

Have faith man you will have it running in no time!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I547

[OGCollard]

Well, as much as i want write its running, it is not just yet. But thank god. Went to change my tranny cooler line and chocolate milk came out!!! Think it is related to old broken radiator. It was not that way two months to jeep engine blowing up. Dont wanna run that through a new radiator. So off to buy a filter kit. All went great. Got everything cleaned up and put tranny pan on with new filter. Crap, stripped the last bolt. Gonna have to figure that one out! But, thank goodness i came across this now rather than later!!

[OGCollard]

So I know on the outer ring the gap faces the rear of the vehicle. but on the dizzy's inner ring, which way is it supposed to be facing when I install it? there is that half ring, dhich way does it need to face?

[Mudderoy]

So I know on the outer ring the gap faces the rear of the vehicle. but on the dizzy's inner ring, which way is it supposed to be facing when I install it? there is that half ring, dhich way does it need to face?

I was like, what the hell is that?!? That's one of those 1/2 distributor things! :D

[OGCollard]

Yes. Yes it is. But i dont know how to tell which way it is pointing. The slot on the bottom that goes into the cam has a notch on both sides. So i am wondering if anyone knows how the top should be aligned when i put it on. Specifically the inner ring circle. Oh and with a happy heart i can tell you i am down to one bolt to put in!!

[Mudderoy]

See if one of these two help.

From what I've read, the timing chain stretches out as you rack up the miles on your Cherokee with a coil rail and at some point it gets outside of the range the computer can correct for it. Mine got there right after I installed a new crank position sensor and hit 130,000 miles.

The process is easy. You need a helper, a toothpick or small drill bit, some basic hand tools and a "mirror on a stick" so you can see the timing marks on the bottom of the cover.

Remove the coil rail, the first spark plug and the camshaft position sensor.
Carefully place a finger of the spark plug hole.
Have your helper bump the starter a little at a time until you feel pressure.
Break out your mirror and check your timing marks.
Use a ratchet or wrench, 19mm I think, to turn the crank forwards to the zero mark.
Remove the camshaft position sensor from the camshaft synchronizer.

:link: (http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f11/how-reindex-camshaft-position-sensor-1145301/)

https://youtu.be/oOc1Lxod2x8

[OGCollard]

Im still trying to hit top dead center. There is only one mark on my harmonic balancer. Not even sure it is a timing mark. When i am at top of compression stroke it is on bottom of balancer though.

[Mudderoy]

Im still trying to hit top dead center. There is only one mark on my harmonic balancer. Not even sure it is a timing mark. When i am at top of compression stroke it is on bottom of balancer though.

Hmmmm If I remember correctly you may have to remove the valve cover to have a look at the rockers on #1 to find the precise TDC. Someone will jump in here to clear it up.

[OGCollard]

Found my notch! Now tdc will be easy to find. As long as timing marks did not move when i changed timing covers. I would not think they had different marks.

[OGCollard]

I was rhinking about the timing marks movement between the two different timing case covers last night. Both of those covers had the exact same part number. Seems to me if they did something that would have caused the numbers to be moved they would be two uniquely identified part numbers cause the placement of those is...um well...kinda important!

[OGCollard]

Well it tries to go but cranks and cranks. Hate doing that on that new cam too! Getting plenty of fuel. In fact smells straight up gassy. Pretty sure on spark. Spark rail worked fine before teardown and has brand new plugs. But i will have to check for spark to be sure. I followed the service manual about finding top dead center and thought i had my oil pump drive in correctly but it does not try to fire. Just cranks.

[OGCollard]

I did put a new crankshaft position sensor on it since the engine was out. Figured good time to do it

[Mudderoy]

Well it tries to go but cranks and cranks. Hate doing that on that new cam too! Getting plenty of fuel. In fact smells straight up gassy. Pretty sure on spark. Spark rail worked fine before teardown and has brand new plugs. But i will have to check for spark to be sure. I followed the service manual about finding top dead center and thought i had my oil pump drive in correctly but it does not try to fire. Just cranks.

It's probably the the cam position sensor. I'd double check the TDC and restab that CMP sensor.

[OGCollard]

So as mentioned. I put new crankshaft sensor in while engine was out. Although it was not a mopar one. What are the chances right outta the box my keep hates the non mopar sensor. It has chewed up and spit out non mopar sensors pretty quick in other areas. Is there a way to check to see if its a crankshaft position sensor when its a brand new build?

[OGCollard]

Man i hate to keep hammerin on this new cam...

[Mudderoy]

So as mentioned. I put new crankshaft sensor in while engine was out. Although it was not a mopar one. What are the chances right outta the box my keep hates the non mopar sensor. It has chewed up and spit out non mopar sensors pretty quick in other areas. Is there a way to check to see if its a crankshaft position sensor when its a brand new build?

There is a test, I don't recall what it is but you disconnect it from the harness and measure the resistance I believe.

Why don't you put the old one back in. You knew that one was working before.

[OGCollard]

I was going to last night but then i realized i accidentally ran over it with the engine cherry picker. It is no longer a one piece item. So i bit the bullet and got a mopar brand cps. Will be putting that in tonight. I went through a non mopar camshaft sensor and oil pressure sender within a week of installation before so my guess is it hates the sensor in there right now. Only sucky thing is i have an off brand new temp sender too. I got the old one still i believe but it may have been rained on

[OGCollard]

Well. New mopar crankshaft position sensor on. Made no difference. Crank crank crank. No turning over. Does not even try. Reset to tdc and restabbed the cps to no avail. Still nothing.

[OGCollard]

I meant restabbed the camshaft position sensor. So not gonna throw any more money at it. Its out of time i believe. The plugs reeked of gas. I still have to check for spark. Tryin to figure out how to test that spark rail.

[Mudderoy]

I meant restabbed the camshaft position sensor. So not gonna throw any more money at it. Its out of time i believe. The plugs reeked of gas. I still have to check for spark. Tryin to figure out how to test that spark rail.

Any CEL?

A common thing with the distributor, and I bet it's the same for the stalk they use on the 2000 and 2001 is for it to be 180 degrees out.

Also you'll want to pull the CMP out, move it 1 tooth and stab it. Try that.

I remember Matt pull my distributor several times. Even with it running he kept moving it a tooth at a time so it started quickly and didn't have any pre-detonation.

It has to be just right otherwise you'll cook the pistons.

[OGCollard]

Appreciate the input mudderroy! So moving a tooth at a time. Would it de safe to say each one of those timing marks on the timing set cover represent a tooth? When i get my whoosh my hb mark is about 2 inches before the timingmarks. So when i have it on zero you almost think the piston is starting to go down but it has not yet. So if it did not work with balancer set to zero should i set it o. The nex line which would before zero the stab the cmp? I read lots about the cmp being 180 degrees out. I dont understand that cause the oil pump drive only goes in one direction does it not? And the service manual says to put a toothpick in the two holes on it to line them up.

[Mudderoy]

Appreciate the input mudderroy! So moving a tooth at a time. Would it de safe to say each one of those timing marks on the timing set cover represent a tooth? When i get my whoosh my hb mark is about 2 inches before the timingmarks. So when i have it on zero you almost think the piston is starting to go down but it has not yet. So if it did not work with balancer set to zero should i set it o. The nex line which would before zero the stab the cmp? I read lots about the cmp being 180 degrees out. I dont understand that cause the oil pump drive only goes in one direction does it not? And the service manual says to put a toothpick in the two holes on it to line them up.

I think what it is, is when you're determining TDC you may not be on the compression stroke but the exhaust stroke. You're stabbing them CMP thinking it's compression hence 180 out.

Please you guys that know more about this jump in. I've only watched, intensely, as Matt worked on mine. It's not the same as suffering through it and learning.

[OGCollard]

Ah i see. Well we turned it till we felt the big woosh and then set to zero. I was under impression that thw whoosh meant you wer on the compression stroke. I could be bassakwards on that understanding though.

[Mudderoy]

Ah i see. Well we turned it till we felt the big woosh and then set to zero. I was under impression that thw whoosh meant you wer on the compression stroke. I could be bassakwards on that understanding though.

No that woosh is what you want, the 180 degree thing is just a common issue.

[OGCollard]

:bang:So the service manual says to align two hole of the oil pump drive with a toothpick then out the drive in. This causes the inner pulse ring, tha half moon piece to have to open side facing rear. I just saw a video where the dude set his engine to tdc and set the half moon facing the front and fired it right up

[Mudderoy]

:bang:So the service manual says to align two hole of the oil pump drive with a toothpick then out the drive in. This causes the inner pulse ring, tha half moon piece to have to open side facing rear. I just saw a video where the dude set his engine to tdc and set the half moon facing the front and fired it right up

So that would be 180 degrees out?

[OGCollard]

I guess but it is wierd that he claimed to be on the compression side and had that ring facing the opposite direction then the service manual says. I would think the srvice manual was the correct one.

[Mudderoy]

I guess but it is wierd that he claimed to be on the compression side and had that ring facing the opposite direction then the service manual says. I would think the srvice manual was the correct one.

Yeah but his started. ;)

[OGCollard]

Touche mudderoy! Hahaha! Dont worry i am totally setting mine that way and trying it tomorrow! For that exact reason. His started. Mine did not.

[Mudderoy]

Touche mudderoy! Hahaha! Dont worry i am totally setting mine that way and trying it tomorrow! For that exact reason. His started. Mine did not.

I know what you mean though. Why? What's missing? I want to understand, but I want to figure it out while driving my Jeep on my way to get a burger. :bacondance:

[OGCollard]

I think i may be about ready to feel really stupid. I read that there is a little piece of paper that should be glued to the end of the crankshaft posotion sensor when you install it. At first i heard nothing of the sort. Learned about it right when i bought my $115 mopar cps from the dealership. Did not see one glued on there and asked the parts guy about it. He had never heard of it. Would jeep really sell the sensor and not have a required piece of cardboard on it? Has everyone elses had that? I did not have one on the non mopar or the mopar sensor...

[Mudderoy]

I think i may be about ready to feel really stupid. I read that there is a little piece of paper that should be glued to the end of the crankshaft posotion sensor when you install it. At first i heard nothing of the sort. Learned about it right when i bought my $115 mopar cps from the dealership. Did not see one glued on there and asked the parts guy about it. He had never heard of it. Would jeep really sell the sensor and not have a required piece of cardboard on it? Has everyone elses had that? I did not have one on the non mopar or the mopar sensor...

I don't remember one.

[OGCollard]

Upon further research. There differnt mounting style cps. The one bolt mount cps has the paper spacer. The 2 bolt cps like our xjs have do not have the spacer

[OGCollard]

Well, pulse ring on oil pump drive facing the other direction did not matter. No xhange. Crank crank crank. As much as i tell myself its timing i am starting to doubt the spark rail or camshaft sensor..

[Mudderoy]

Well, pulse ring on oil pump drive facing the other direction did not matter. No xhange. Crank crank crank. As much as i tell myself its timing i am starting to doubt the spark rail or camshaft sensor..

I would do that test with the volt ohm meter on the CPS and CMP. I'd charger the battery too. Seems like I recall you need 3 revolutions of the flexplate for the computer to sense the location of the sync piece of metal on the flexplate.

[OGCollard]

I think that will be the plan tonight. Gotta make sure I have spark at this point. The crankshaft sensor I am pretty sure is good. it is a brand new mopar one. the camshaft sensor is a year old mopar sensor, but it was on when I did my overheating. it started the jeep to get it in the garage after that, but sitting for 3 months might have done it in. gonna check that sensor. try to figure out how to check the spark rail. Gonna throw my buddies scanguage on it and see if it is throwing any codes.

[OGCollard]

:cheerleader:After 10 pages of thread and 3 months.....drumroll....she runs!!! Got through the camshaft break in process fine. Cooled down changed out oil. Turned on and fired right up. I did throw a cel on the second startup. Will have to get that read. She wants to die at idle but other than that she runs and sounds good. I read that after doing this you should go have computer fine tuned for the timing. About 150 at dealers. I wonder if that will shake the wanting to die at idle.

[Mudderoy]

:cheerleader:After 10 pages of thread and 3 months.....drumroll....she runs!!! Got through the camshaft break in process fine. Cooled down changed out oil. Turned on and fired right up. I did throw a cel on the second startup. Will have to get that read. She wants to die at idle but other than that she runs and sounds good. I read that after doing this you should go have computer fine tuned for the timing. About 150 at dealers. I wonder if that will shake the wanting to die at idle.

So are you withholding what the final solution was on purpose? :smiley-scared003:

What's the code? It should run fine without the tuning. You have a sensor issue, the timing isn't quite right, etc...

[OGCollard]

You know. I was waiting for you to call me on not saying it....um...well....the spark rail may not have been...well.....plugged in....quite...all the way....:bang:

[Mudderoy]

You know. I was waiting for you to call me on not saying it....um...well....the spark rail may not have been...well.....plugged in....quite...all the way....:bang:

Which was the cam position sensor, front or back?

[OGCollard]

Cam postion sensor faced back, half ring open sode faced back, top dead center. Turned key, it choked, turned key again and she turned on, squealed and smoked for two minutes and then everything calmed down.

[OGCollard]

Soynds better then the day i bought it

[OGCollard]

I want to thank you mudderoy for you input through this whole thing. 4.3 xj too. The advice and knowledge you guys gave me helped me tremendously. I can honestly say XJTalk.com is freakin awesome!!

[Mudderoy]

Soynds better then the day i bought it

Congratulations! You'll never be as proud as you are right now.

[OGCollard]

Well took her for a test drive tonight. Started off wanting to die at low rpm. That started to go away as i put more miles under. Ignition is getting quicker too. The computer must be busy remapping everything. Gonna put the hood on her tomorrow, call her done! Check fluids everyday. Start putting more miles on it. Hunting season is right around the corner. And i got a lift kit i ordered last march before the debacle!

[XJ Wheeler]

You know. I was waiting for you to call me on not saying it....um...well....the spark rail may not have been...well.....plugged in....quite...all the way....:bang:

Lol, no worries. You know after I rebuilt the heads on my Bronco 2 it wouldn't start. Just crank and crank. Spent days messing with the timing and contemplating opening it back up to check the valve lash when I found out that... having gas really helps. Turned out the fuel line had a leak and while I redid the engine it emptied the tank. :rolleyes:

Sure is frustrating but feels really good not to have to redo it when you realize the silly problem. :p Congrats, feels good... don't it? ;)

Sent via messenger pigeon. I talk, he types.

[slvmart]

If you none of the standard cooling remedies don't fix your problem, I would suggest checking your timing.

[OGCollard]

Well after taking it to work this morning and fifteen miles at 60 mph it seemed to idle better than when i started. Before this morning i had only gone about 15 miles total amd fastest was 30 mph so maybe it just need to really run first. Anyway i will make sure and clean up the throttle body and such this weekend and cut some vents in the hood. Cleaning the freakin garage first!!! Its filthy from this project.

[OGCollard]

Just an update. Jeep runs well except still wants to die at idle. Everytime. I have to feather the gas to keep it running. I left the throttle body on intak when i rebuilt engine. Gonna go simple first and take that off and clean it and the iac off. The iac and the tps are new last summer so i figure they arent bad, just a little too dirty for the new rebuild.

[Mudderoy]

Just an update. Jeep runs well except still wants to die at idle. Everytime. I have to feather the gas to keep it running. I left the throttle body on intak when i rebuilt engine. Gonna go simple first and take that off and clean it and the iac off. The iac and the tps are new last summer so i figure they arent bad, just a little too dirty for the new rebuild.

New as in Chrysler/Jeep new? I had a non factory TPS on mine and it failed after about a year.

The TPS went out on the 99 and it wouldn't start. If you held the gas petal down it would start and run, but would die it you took your foot off.

[OGCollard]

Yeah i believe it was a mopar sensor. Will double check it tonight or tomorrow when i clean the throttle body

[Mudderoy]

Yeah i believe it was a mopar sensor. Will double check it tonight or tomorrow when i clean the throttle body

If I remember right the IAC adjusts the amount of air going into the intake and the TPS adjusts the butterfly (butterfly with one wing?) keeping the idle around 700 rpm.

[OGCollard]

So today the way home was a new adventure. She started to not want to go fast in drive even if given some gas, and i thought i smelled tranny fluid. Saw a puff of smoke and pulled over and she dumped some tranny fluid. Think i know what happened. When i dropped the tranny pan the dipstick was completely rusted and frozen round the oring. Tried many things but it would not budge. Saw where other folks had similar problem. They cut theirs and mended with a hose and some hose clamps. Well my top hose clamp is one size bigger than the bottom one. What i thought to be tight really was not tight. My theory is the tranny got warm because i have to feather the gas with my foot on the gas. Fluid got warm, started going up the rube a little and found a way between hose and dipstick tube and sprayed a bunch. Was not under the jeep so can only call it a theory sonce i could not actually see it. Let it cool down, added tranny fluid and got her home. Seemed to still shoft fine and tranny fluid did not smell burnt.

[OGCollard]

Well today i cleaned the throttle body and iac. Learned that the gasket between iac housing and throttle body is something you cannot get anymore. Used clear rtv sealant. After cleaning the throttle body and such my dying at idle is actually worse. Im thinking maybe a 15 yr old map sensor is the culprit. The jeep has died at idle since the day i bought it. The one sensor that has been constant between the two wngines? The map sensor

[Mudderoy]

Well today i cleaned the throttle body and iac. Learned that the gasket between iac housing and throttle body is something you cannot get anymore. Used clear rtv sealant. After cleaning the throttle body and such my dying at idle is actually worse. Im thinking maybe a 15 yr old map sensor is the culprit. The jeep has died at idle since the day i bought it. The one sensor that has been constant between the two wngines? The map sensor

Ahhh that makes sense.

[cantab27]

tranny smoke is white ............lol.....not a good look in mirror ...well done on fix and doing it yourself...no better feeling

[OGCollard]

Took it for another drive today and it died twice in a mile and a half. Brought it home to have it set for a minute and it idled non stop for 20 minutes. Longest it has idled. Turned off let it set for an hour turned it on and no idle issues again. Will take it for a drive tomorrow after work and see if it dies. Maybe it was the old gas from before it broke?? Maybe computer calibration? I know i am not running out and buying that map sensor!

[4.3LXJ]

Jeep computers are slow learners. Keep driving it for awhile

[OGCollard]

Well it was dying again tonight when i messed with it. But it finally threw a code. Camshaft position sensor

[Mudderoy]

Well it was dying again tonight when i messed with it. But it finally threw a code. Camshaft position sensor

Is that what you were messing with?

[OGCollard]

No i was just turning it on to see if it would idle after work. Thats all the messing with it i did last night

[Mudderoy]

No i was just turning it on to see if it would idle after work. Thats all the messing with it i did last night

I wonder if you computer is trying to advance, or retard the timing so much that it's running out of range. A.K.A. timing not set right.

What was the code?

[OGCollard]

P0340

[Mudderoy]

P0340

If you want to replace the crankshaft position sensor, it is located on the back of the bellhousing - a big pain to get to on the 4.0L. Not as bad on a wrangler, but not a snap. That could still be your issue, but I would be more worried about 1 of 3 other things. Your wiring to your camshaft position sensor, your engine coolant temperature sensor, or your engine has jumped a tooth and is actually out of time. If you are able to use a multi-meter I can give you a couple of things to check, but you may need to get it to a dealer.

:link: (http://www.justanswer.com/jeep/2djuj-1997-jeep-wrangler-4-0l-check-engine-code.html)

[OGCollard]

The crankshaft and camshaft are brand new now, ourchased from dealership. It could be the wiring. I started this morning it ran straigh for about 8 minutes at idle, then abruptly shut of and would not hold idle mre than 30 after turning back on three times. I did notice at that point it was dripping water off of muffler at that point pretty well. It was about 50 degrees this morning though so i dont know if that played into the water sitch or not. It as at about 185-190 degrees engine temp when did it. Will see if it has same behavior tonight after work.