Fuse box is melted..whats the best fix?

[beatupjeep]

89 XJ 4wd 4.0

So I as many others have had the fuse box die due to the common issue of the clutch master cylinder leaking fluid onto it, which is highly corrosive and destroys the terminals.

I am finally getting around to doing something about it. Its gotten to the point where many terminals are actually missing, I cant pull the old bend-the-terminal and fuse-legs to make contact trick anymore. Stuff just doesnt work at all because there is air where fuse is supposed to connect.

I count about 16 fuses that I'll need to provide new homes for.

I dont care if it gets a bit messy, I just want it to be:

a) reliable (I NEVER want to deal with this again)
b) cheap
c) fast to do

So I'm thinking I will go on ebay, find the cheapest automotive fuse connectors, whether inline holders or a fuse block, and then just cut the fuse block wires off and reconnect to the new fuse holders. I'll leave all the relays where they are because I think their terminals are still good.

Anyone do this? Im figuring there may be some need to provide new "bus" wires since I bet the fuse block provides that so multiple fuses feed off the same single wire.

Heres a 12-way fuse block with cover for about $8 on ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-Way-Circuit-Automotive-Middle-sized-Blade-Standard-Fuse-Box-Block-Holder-BX-/251671532734?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a98cad4be

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff197/acannell/20150216_171943_zpscd3dew1z.jpg

[4.3LXJ]

Just a suggestion. I think you are on the right track. But there are two main circuits you need to consider if you want to retain original function. There is the accessory circuit and the run circuit. Something like this might fit your needs better. One for run and accessroy

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/bss-15600-06-20/overview/

[beatupjeep]

Just a suggestion. I think you are on the right track. But there are two main circuits you need to consider if you want to retain original function. There is the accessory circuit and the run circuit. Something like this might fit your needs better. One for run and accessroy

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/bss-15600-06-20/overview/

Can you explain more what you're thinking? I figured I can just cut the wires going to each fuse in the fuse block and reconnect them to a new fuse holder, without knowing what they do or where they go..just wire for wire so to speak.

The holder you linked to is nice but too much $$..$22 each for 6 contacts, I'd need $66 worth. Why do you like it better?

[4.3LXJ]

I have never taken one out on an 89, but my understanding of how they are wired is one orange hot from the acc terminal on the ign switch and one yellow run wire and a red from the battery that powers the whole thing. The little wires come off there and go to the switches for each function

[NW99XJ]

I would remove it from the firewall as carefully as you can, and replace it with one from the junkyard that is in better condition.
That's my own personal opinion of what would be "BEST" to do...
This gives you the ability to (easily) match up wire-to-wire the old with the new.
You can also mount it where it should go, and retain all OEM specs, looks, locations, etc...
Either way it;s going to be a bit of a hack job.... cutting the wires, and splicing them back together.... Which i would recommend doing either one at a time, or at MOST a few at a time. You're not going to have a lot of room to work with, but at least you'll be confident that what you have done will work properly.
Good luck man.... this is a nightmare of a job... not super hard...just utterly time consuming.

Here;s a tip.... if you want to make things easier on yourself... (kind of) ...remove the dash.

[beatupjeep]

I would remove it from the firewall as carefully as you can, and replace it with one from the junkyard that is in better condition.
That's my own personal opinion of what would be "BEST" to do...
This gives you the ability to (easily) match up wire-to-wire the old with the new.
You can also mount it where it should go, and retain all OEM specs, looks, locations, etc...
Either way it;s going to be a bit of a hack job.... cutting the wires, and splicing them back together.... Which i would recommend doing either one at a time, or at MOST a few at a time. You're not going to have a lot of room to work with, but at least you'll be confident that what you have done will work properly.
Good luck man.... this is a nightmare of a job... not super hard...just utterly time consuming.

Here;s a tip.... if you want to make things easier on yourself... (kind of) ...remove the dash.

I would really like to somehow put in a stock fuse box. The problem is you would need to replace the entire harness that the fusebox connects to..which is alot. Theres no way to take the wires out of the terminals in the fuse box.

I spent awhile looking online for a harness, but I noticed that there seem to be quite a few variations of harnesses for this year XJ and its unlikely I'd pick the right one online..so that leaves buying from a junkyard which is even more random.

Long ago I unscrewed the fuse box and looked at the back..I dont remember that much about it except that there are definitely "buses" where many fuses share a single terminal bar, which makes sense. So to recreate that I'd have to pre plan just a little and make sure I either provide a terminal strip or some other way for multiple fuses to share a single line. I suppose I could daisy chain them but that gets a little ghetto.

I take it nobody has come up with a super clean fuse box solution? I figured this problem was so common someone had a fix for it..

[beatupjeep]

okay heres some pics I just took of the back of the fuse box...yikes

its BAD ...the fuses are cracked from the fluid, lots of terminals are broken off..its all sticky..I pulled a fuse out to check the terminals and the fuse disintegrated and left one of its legs in the holder...so I guess I better deal with this sooner than later..

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff197/acannell/20150217_133844_zpsqui0wop8.jpg (http://s242.photobucket.com/user/acannell/media/20150217_133844_zpsqui0wop8.jpg.html)

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff197/acannell/20150217_133852_zpsyvlpelb8.jpg (http://s242.photobucket.com/user/acannell/media/20150217_133852_zpsyvlpelb8.jpg.html)

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff197/acannell/20150217_133903_zpsgta9bacc.jpg (http://s242.photobucket.com/user/acannell/media/20150217_133903_zpsgta9bacc.jpg.html)

[beatupjeep]

you know what it might be easiest, cleanest, and cheap to just splice in a jeep fusebox..trouble is finding one

[4.3LXJ]

I am going to make a suggestion on this. Get the tools needed to extract the terminals from the box you have and then put new terminals on the wires and stick them back in. May sound a little daunting, but I have been doing this and it is not hard if you have the tool needed. Looks like al screwdriver sort if, but is made out of really good steel and thin enough to depress the tabs that keep the terminals in the block. Once you do it once, the rest will go easy. Probably take you a couple of hours

[beatupjeep]

I am going to make a suggestion on this. Get the tools needed to extract the terminals from the box you have and then put new terminals on the wires and stick them back in. May sound a little daunting, but I have been doing this and it is not hard if you have the tool needed. Looks like al screwdriver sort if, but is made out of really good steel and thin enough to depress the tabs that keep the terminals in the block. Once you do it once, the rest will go easy. Probably take you a couple of hours

I would totally do that..the problem is the terminals are some weird automotive terminal strip that I think is special for fuse boxes (and probably this fuse box design)..I have no idea where to get replacement terminal strips. Are they available somewhere? I already have a crimper and that would be fantastic..

[4.3LXJ]

Check with an automotive electric shop. They do this stuff all the time. Tool is available from NAPA as well as some terminals

[Carves]

If you use those typical aftermarket fuseboxes ... you normally end up with extra wiring to get power to the other side of the fuse.

Something like the one 4.3LXJ posted are the go ... but they can be pricey.


I would be looking for a good, factory, fusebox at the wreckers ... pop the wires out of the old one using the tool mentioned, replace any buggered connectors as required ... and spend many cups of coffee and cigarettes putting it all back together again.


A word of caution,

... the fusebox plastic is usually, fragile/brittle with age and heat ... so be gentle when poking and prodding.

... photo/label the wires ... before you start ... One for one, wire swaps are usually the best way to do it if you can.

[beatupjeep]

If you use those typical aftermarket fuseboxes ... you normally end up with extra wiring to get power to the other side of the fuse.

Something like the one 4.3LXJ posted are the go ... but they can be pricey.


I would be looking for a good, factory, fusebox at the wreckers ... pop the wires out of the old one using the tool mentioned, replace any buggered connectors as required ... and spend many cups of coffee and cigarettes putting it all back together again.


A word of caution,

... the fusebox plastic is usually, fragile/brittle with age and heat ... so be gentle when poking and prodding.

... photo/label the wires ... before you start ... One for one, wire swaps are usually the best way to do it if you can.

if connectors for the fuse box are available that is a HUGE breakthrough...can we pinpoint what part number they are and where to get them?

if you can put new terminals on, theres no reason to even get a replacement fusebox..just take the existing fusebox, clean all the clutch fluid out of it, pull all the terminals out and cut them off, put new ones on, re-install.tada!

[4.3LXJ]

That is the idea

[beatupjeep]

hmm...

I think the fuse box terminals may be made by Delphi Packard..and may actually be available very cheaply from mouser or ebay, etc..

http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=DlE0rdXB%2fL3qe%2f530gcIaQ%3 d%3d&utm_source=findchips&utm_medium=aggregator&utm_campaign=829-12020321&utm_term=12020321

I will need to pull out one of the terminals in the Jeep fuse box and compare.

If we can find terminals for our fuseboxes..its game over for this problem. That would be the easiest, cheapest, and cleanest solution by far. I am pretty sure the fusebox plastic is okay, its just the terminals and fuses that have rotted.

If anyone has a terminal they've pulled from a fusebox and can take pics of it, that would be awesome. Preferably one that hasnt rotted out already.

[4.3LXJ]

Sounds like the way to go

[beatupjeep]

This website sells a $32 crimper for those terminals. So you could buy it, then resell it to someone else and essentially use it for free. Or just keep it I suppose:

http://home.earthlink.net/~dswartzendruber/id13.html

It also shows a fairly inexpensive fusebox that would use these terminals.

There is an even less expensive fusebox, that takes 4 fuses, and comes with terminals, for about $5.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dorman-Fuse-Block-85668-Accepts-4-ATO-ATC-Fuses-/271659657026?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f402d6742&vxp=mtr

I think 5 of those would do the job. They lock together so its pretty tidy. And since you are crimping the wires directly into the terminals, theres not a ton of automotive terminals and extra wiring all over the place. Plus its much more protected this way and easier I would think. So worst case if I cant find the exact terminals that go into the jeep fusebox, I think this will be my Plan B. But it doesnt say what gauge wire the terminals it comes with will accept..so it may be needed to buy additional terminals or add splices to shrink down the bigger wires.

I dont like the idea of the other cheap fuse boxes that just have spade terminals. The connections are too exposed, stiff, and prone to becoming loose IMO, and doesnt offer the use of bus-terminals on one side to save from having to do a bunch of addl wiring. So thats a distance plan C.

[beatupjeep]

Looks like pep-boys carries the 85668 fuse block (4 fuses w/ terminals) for $5.99 in-store, or at least can get them there in 1 day. I think I'll just buy 5, pick them up, and if they're wrong, take them back.

http://www.pepboys.com/search/?term=85668&omniEvars=85668&omniEvent=event1

[beatupjeep]

Went to pep boys and picked up 85668 for $4.99

I called autozone and they said $10.99

Ebay seems to be around $6.

So strangely, pep boys seems to be the best deal even with tax.

Also, pep boys online system seems to be finally up and running. They have a %30 off $30 thing with free shipping, so if you got 5 of these for 20 fuses (I think there are more than 16..so at least 5 would be required). That would be $24.95. Then you add something else you need like an oil filter or whatever, and you get the whole shebang for about $20! Not bad for a direct crimp fusebox replacement!

Thats assuming this all works out. The 4 fuse holder is bigger than I thought. Im also not sure if the biggest wires will crimp into it..it looks like a close call.

These lock-together, so at least you'd end up with one big chunk. But it will still need some kind of mounting. I suppose there are a million ways to skin that cat, so Im not too worried about it.

Im very excited that I may be this close to fixing my fuse box problem, and cleanly and cheaply too. But we shall see.

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff197/acannell/20150220_091657_zpspvryvevl.jpg (http://s242.photobucket.com/user/acannell/media/20150220_091657_zpspvryvevl.jpg.html)

[XJ Wheeler]

Be sure to mark the fuse spots well. Since you won't have the factory diagrams to go off of for troubleshooting.

Sent via messenger pigeon - i talk, he types.

[beatupjeep]

Be sure to mark the fuse spots well. Since you won't have the factory diagrams to go off of for troubleshooting.

Sent via messenger pigeon - i talk, he types.

Yep definitely. Im thinking up a plan to lose zero-info on how its wired.

I think it might be possible to cut the fuse box out, then chart it on the bench where it would be easier to see, making sure to leave enough wire connected to it to clearly see the colors. But first I'd have to make sure there are no duplicate colors. If there are, I'd have to mark them somehow to tell them apart.

Otherwise I think that will work and be fairly easy.

The wires have alot of gunk on them so doing the tracing/recording in the footwell would be a pain I think..but I'll see if its possible just to be safer.

[4.3LXJ]

Just a suggestion. Take the front seat out so you can lay down in that space. Take the tool I suggested you get and remove one clip and wire at at time. Attach a new clip and insert. They just push in. That way you will save a ton of work, save any mixup you might encounter and get it done faster

[beatupjeep]

Just a suggestion. Take the front seat out so you can lay down in that space. Take the tool I suggested you get and remove one clip and wire at at time. Attach a new clip and insert. They just push in. That way you will save a ton of work, save any mixup you might encounter and get it done faster

Just to be clear are you saying you know for sure there are terminals available for the fusebox? Is that what you mean by clip? Because if thats the case that would be my plan A. Im going to compare the terminals that came with this little fuse box and see if they are the same as the ones in the stock fuse box. They look very close just eyeballing it. I think they are all from the same family of delphi packard terminals.

[4.3LXJ]

As I said, find an automotive electrical shop. They either have them or can get them for you

[beatupjeep]

the terminals in the stock fuse box, and the ones that came with the dorman 85668 look identical..at least the "single" terminals..I havent yet checked the "strip/bus" terminals. I havent tried installing one either. Soon to come.

These terminals are pretty cheap, but I think it may still be a deal or possibly even the cheapest way to get them, buy buying the dorman 85668 $4.99 fuse block. You get 4 single terminals, and a strip of 4 "bus" terminals. Dorman says its only up to 18 awg, so that may be an issue, because some of the wires look bigger. If you google 12020321 delphi, youll see where you can get them. The nice thing about buying the fuse block is you can return it locally if you need to, and you get a fuse block with it too in case you want to do that.

What would be nicest is a kit of terminals that has an assortment of different sizes, all available online for cheap.

I'm going to make a map now of all the wire colors, gauges, and fuse connections on the fuse box. And then it might be possible to put together a parts list for a mouser purchase that would provide all the needed terminals. Or at least it will just be some info that I'm sure will come in handy someday.

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff197/acannell/20150220_130449_zpsvfmcause.jpg (http://s242.photobucket.com/user/acannell/media/20150220_130449_zpsvfmcause.jpg.html)

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[4.3LXJ]

Terminals look good to me

[beatupjeep]

Also, some more notes:

Disconnecting the huge bulk head connector behind the fuse box lets you pull the fusebox out of the foot well further.

To disconnect that connector, you need to loosen a bolt in the middle of it, from the engine compartment side.

To get to that bolt, it helps to take out the washer reservoir.

The bolt is small..I think it used a 1/4" socket. That plus a small ratchet and short extension did the job.

[beatupjeep]

Instinct tells me this is a good time to make a VERY detailed map of the fuse box wiring.

So I made a little chart and filled it out.

The wire gauge numbers come from the factory wiring diagram, I didnt measure them.

Notice the green 30 amp fuse on the bottom in my actual fuse box? That does nothing because theres nothing connected to those terminals! I think I found that fuse lying around years ago and tried to figure out where it went so I just put it there.

The blue lines represent fuses.

This diagram would probably be very useful to someone with my 89 XJ manual 4.0 jeep..and probably not so much to anyone else (or at least, who knows if your fuse box wiring is the same on a different year/tranny/package)

Im comfortable now I wont be losing the location of any wires. I could cut the fusebox out at this point and not worry about getting them wired back together correctly, although I need to mark all the duplicate colors somehow so they dont get mixed up. Probably just a piece of masking tape with a number on it would do.

NOTE: I discovered that the corroding effects of the clutch fluid SERIOUSLY alters the colors of the wires!! Go back up to where they come out of their big taped cable to see the true colors!!

The terminals for the two circular relays pop out very easily with a small flat head screwdriver.

The terminals for the fuses..not so easy. I did get one out, but it was somewhat destructive. I'm not sure if thats because the terminal was corroded (it was) or if I did the damage myself. I'll learn more on the next few I try.

Now the question is: since I know how many terminals and of what gauge and type (bus or individual) I need, can I buy them all somewhere, and where is the cheapest?

Mouser seems to sell them. I think waytek wire does too, but Im not sure about price or shipping. Mouser will be $5 shipping and the prices seem pretty good.

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff197/acannell/jeepfuseblock_zps92fe92d0.png (http://s242.photobucket.com/user/acannell/media/jeepfuseblock_zps92fe92d0.png.html)

[beatupjeep]

I made a shopping list for the terminals I'll need..

Its not perfect. The stock fusebox has some terminals which I cant find for sale, specifically the two-wire terminals and the bus bars that take 20, 18, 16, and 14 gauge.

But I think I can make do with just the 12, 14-16, 18-20 individual terminals, and the 12 bus bar terminal.

From mouser, 10 of each of those terminals, plus a full set of brand new fuses, is about $25 shipped. Im confirming with them that the bus bar terminals are left as a continuous strip and not cut apart.

The part numbers I'm using come from the waytekwire website, which shows the dorman fuse block I bought, and the terminals that fit it. Delphi makes a zillion terminals which are similar and I figure I would use the ones that waytekwire says fit the dorman, because I know the dorman terminals fit the stock fuse box. Yes, I tested the individual one. It popped in just fine, and I popped it back out easily with a flathead. I didnt test the bus bar one yet though.

[beatupjeep]

here are the part numbers I used.

the first P/N is the waytek wire one, the second is the mfg. delphi one. the numbers in () are the cross-section area of the wire in mm (the delphi datasheet shows that, not AWG. but the waytek site shows AWG)

32036 = 12020400 = 12 ind (3.0-5.0)
31037 = 12020321 = 14-16 ind (1.0-2.0)
30038 = 12020334 = 18-20 ind (0.5-0.8)
32029 = 12004568 = 12 to 10 gauge buss bar

[WhiteKnight2]

Don't know if this schematic will help, its for a 93', but I had it saved on my computer and it looks like on page 5 the fuse block is the same as the one in your picture. It has the wiring color and I use it for my 95. One of the better schematics I've found online.

www.dayid.org/xj/tech/93XJ_wiring2.pdf

Hope it works for ya. Good Luck.

[beatupjeep]

Don't know if this schematic will help, its for a 93', but I had it saved on my computer and it looks like on page 5 the fuse block is the same as the one in your picture. It has the wiring color and I use it for my 95. One of the better schematics I've found online.

www.dayid.org/xj/tech/93XJ_wiring2.pdf

Hope it works for ya. Good Luck.

thats good to know thanks, I have a factory wiring diagram for my jeep, but if its the same as a 93 that would help some people I'm sure

[beatupjeep]

mouser order delivered

About $30 got me a full set of new fuse box terminals, 10 each of multiple gauges and a long strip for the bus bar terminals. It also got me a full set of new, littlefuse brand fuses.

I already had the crimper. The little flathead screwdriver in the picture was the only tool I needed to pop out the old terminals. I wasnt trying to be nice to them, but I didnt have to be too destructive. They were already corroded though so its hard to tell if some of them broke because I was being too rough with them or if they were just on the verge anyway. So you may want to use a more delicate method if you need to salvage them for some reason.

I soaked the fuse box in hot water and a 50/50 mix of simple green for about 10 minutes, then blew out all the nooks and crannies with air. I think it did a good job and there's no corrosion byproducts or goo left. The blower fuse got hot enough to melt the fuse because of the poor connection, and its location on the fusebox was somewhat melted too, but I think it will still work okay. Something to keep in mind if you are procrastinating your repair like I did.

Next I'll clean all the wires and start stripping and crimping..

Or maybe clean the footwell of all mineral oil residue first.

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff197/acannell/20150302_125621_zps1yemazad.jpg (http://s242.photobucket.com/user/acannell/media/20150302_125621_zps1yemazad.jpg.html)

[beatupjeep]

All done!

I didnt do any cleaning behind the carpet. Theres definitely rust and peeling paint from the fluid but I think that happened years ago and it seems dry. I cant think of a way to really clean it without actually sanding it to bare metal anyway. Too many nooks and crannies.

I got everything back together and connected the battery...dome lights, clock, radio didnt work. And of course, it turns out to be the ONLY wires that are indistinguishable from each other, the two RED/WHITE 14 gauges. And they do NOT go to the same location so they cant be swapped. A quick check with a continuity meter shows that the dome switch fuse is going to the headlamp delay module, which it should not, confirming they are backwards. So I swapped them out and now everything works! Finally!

Now I just need to prevent clutch fluid from ever getting on them again. I think a simple plastic sheet on top of the fuse box would provide alot better than none, but not invincible, protection from future leaks. I'm replacing the clutch master cylinder right now with a cast iron one (all my previous ones had been aluminum). Im hoping this is the end of the saga, but i'd like to figure out a "shield" of some kind. The problem is that the wires get pressed up against the firewall, and are also right on top of the bulk head connector..so its hard to "get behind everything"...

If you had some gnarly super goo that you could bond a sheet to the firewall with you could "divert" any leakage away from the fuse box..but its not a perfectly smooth surface around the clutch master cylinder..there are alot of brackets and bolts and things. Ill have to give it a closer look.

Overall this job wasnt too expensive or time consuming. Its a bit tedious though. I think making a precise map of the fuse box is a good idea, although I think all that info can be found in the service manual. But just in case they dont match for some reason, you dont want to be left figuring out where wires go by starting to trace everything.

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff197/acannell/20150304_105012_zpse6wi2sbe.jpg (http://s242.photobucket.com/user/acannell/media/20150304_105012_zpse6wi2sbe.jpg.html)

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[4.3LXJ]

Nice job done the right way

[beatupjeep]

Nice job done the right way

yep I cant see a reason now to attempt an aftermarket fuse box of any kind..you still have to cut wires and crimp to terminals, plus youd have to figure out a new wiring/ bus scheme, and youd end up spending more money too, and end up with a big extra block youd have to mount somewhere, and still keep the old fuse box for the relay mounts..all of that equal not good, and no better than doing it this way.

for those who have never used this sort of crimper, id buy an extra dozen terminals to practice on first. its easy once you get the hang of it but you will probably screw up at first. also, get a pair of proper wire strippers for 20 to 12 awg, and a small pair of cutters. You can do the entire operation from under the footwell, just prop the drivers door open and work with your arms in the footwell. if your jeep is lifted maybe you can even sit on a chair.

for the strip/bus terminals, you'll need to bend the ones that you are not crimping out of the way in order to get the crimper in. its no big deal, but be ready to deal with it. for the multiple-wire connections I found you can put two 20 gauge wires just fine into a single 12 gauge terminal..they make multi-wire terminals but they werent in stock at mouser.

I deleted all the test-points (IGN, ACC, BATT) etc.. so that I didnt have to do multiple bus terminals. Those are probably only used along with the DRB II diagnostic tool, so im not too worried.

I cleaned each wire with some alcohol on a paper towel, worked great. The gunk comes off in one swipe.

Definitely disconnect the bulk head connector so you can pull the fuse box out further.

pull out all the relay terminals for clarity, even though you wont be replacing them. the wiper circuit breaker and the "blue box" thing both have mounts that can be unclipped from the fuse box for more space

if you need more light, and happen to be replacing the clutch master cylinder as well, you can shine a light through that hole and it backlights everything very well (see pics)

the fuse box clips to the bulkhead connector with two long black tangs near the screws, pop them off once the screws are loose so you can separate the fuse box and bulk head connector