Baby lifts

[packmule1911]

New to Jeeps. Learning a great deal, and loving the whole Jeep thing. However, I'm confused by way too much information and am asking for some help in narrowing things down a bit.

I can afford a baby lift, and I think it would be fun to install one and something to learn from. While I'd love to go all in, that's not possible until my kids are out of my house and paying for their own lives. I saw the sticky on the different options, and that was really helpful.

What I don't know are which ones are actually good?

I've got at most $150 to spend, but if I don't have to spend that much I can put the savings towards other stuff. Looking at a solution that does NOT require me to replace the shocks. I'll get around to new shocks, but not now. I think that makes the maximum lift of 2".

I do not have a lift, and when I do the work it will be in my garage, with a floor jack and jack stands, basic hand tools, and no impact wrench. So ease of installation is also a consideration.

Thanks for tolerating my extreme noob-ness. I've got a tire size noob question to post as well.

[abebehrmann]

I did my junkyard lift for less than $150 and am very happy with it. Ran it with stock length shocks for a few months too. If you'd like I could put together a parts list for you to consider.

Alternatively you could just go with a spacer/shackle budget boost but I don't have any experience with these. I would think they would all be approximately the same quality as there aren't too many components to them.

[packmule1911]

I didn't know there was a junkyard build. I'd be very happy to have a parts list. There are a few lots around I can harvest from. I could get the parts together over time.

I figured that the shackle and spacer route was the only one within my budget.

[abebehrmann]

Started typing out a parts list but then I remembered this website which does a much better job than I ever could. I did basically the same thing they did with a few little tweaks here and there.

http://www.lunghd.com/Tech_Articles/Suspension_Steering_Axles_and_Brakes/Budget_Lift.htm

[packmule1911]

Thanks for the link. That looks like a great option, but I'm not sure it would work for me right now. I drive this Jeep every day, and I think I'd likely be down for longer than would work right now, based on the time I've got to do the work (late at night).

Shackles and spacers might be where I have to go, which is fine.

[NW99XJ]

No need to apologize,
ALL questions are welcome here.
For the price range you DO have a few options, and of course there’s always a right way and a wrong way to do things.
"Budget Boosts" ...or baby lifts, come in a variety of flavors, and can be accomplished a number of different ways.

One of the ways to stay away from (although its typically on the least expensive side) is lifting the rear by using blocks between the leaf springs and the axle.
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQKyQQLqUxjLEmIZBaVCWFDs4v0TB8rd GUXVNEU5gMiL7ptvkS8nQ
http://www.cherokeeforum.com/attachments/f67/139698d1345937229t-can-lift-blocks-used-rear-lift-forumrunner_20120825_192703.jpg

Although this will give you the lift you’re looking for, it puts a strain on the U-joints in the driveline, and makes you susceptible to axle wrap….
http://www.activesuspension.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Axlewrap.jpeg

That being said, if you NEVER plan on towing anything, or EVER going offroad, then this may actually be a viable option for you.
Another option is for the rear is what’s called an “Add-a-Leaf” ….which means you are basically just adding a leaf to your existing leaf pack…
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$(KGrHqIOKjYE0-oKNQQkBNe!mT,Eww~~_35.JPG

Another option is to use a lift shackle… the shackle is the part that connects the end of the leaf spring to the body.
http://www.ericsxj.com/random/shackles.jpg
These come in a wide variety of styles, and sizes. A word of warning though…. They can be a pain in the ass to install.
What typically happens is the bolt seizes to the metal sleeve inside the bushing,
and even though you may be able to back the bolt out from the nutsert in the body, it will just spin inside, and not come out of the bushing sleeve.
There are tips and tricks to get around this, but we’ll jump off that bridge when we come to it.

As for the front, well… your options are a lot easier…. Either go with a taller spring, or use spring spacers.
http://www.quadratec.com/Assets/Images/24505/24505-lg.jpg

These go between the body and the coil spring, and come in a variety of colors, and sizes (thicknesses)
http://www.4x4wire.com/jeep/tech/susp/xj_ome_tflx/front/lktfafter.jpg

If you REALLY want to stay cheap…. You can go to the junkyard and start collecting spring isolators, and start stacking these up to get the desired lift height.
The spring isolators, are basically just a thin (typically anywhere from a ¼” to 3/8” or so) doughnut of rubber, that isolates the metal spring from the metal of the body.
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l174/AVR2/IMG_0360.jpg

There are a variety of kits out there that have a combination of these methods, and they all vary in quality, price and ease of installation... there are also a hundred different places to go, and shop, and they all offer varying prices, and levels of customer service. Honestly, it would take a full day of work to list every conceivable option, vendor, and price list, not to mention all the tips and tricks you'll need to know about when it comes to the installation.

Dont rule out the option of going used. I will tell you, that over half of MY Jeep build has been sourced thru Craigslist.
Dont let the desire for instant gratification get in the way of saving some money... and if possible... consider waiting until your tax returns come in and spend a little more for a more complete kit. (just my advice here)

Hopefully this hasn't clouded things for you and has provided you with some help and direction.
Be sure to post up what you ended up going with, and we'll start getting into some installation advice.

[packmule1911]

That's a lot of information, NW99XJ. Thank you.

I've got a well known 4x4 place down the road, and they sell a bunch of the various kits, as well as their online place. I don't want to buy something because someone did a great job of selling it to me, as opposed to buying what I want after my own research. That's why I asked here before heading over there.

I do hope to go off road, I do plan to tow, but I need to keep the budget conservative.

Great guidance from you and abebehrmann.

[NW99XJ]

Glad to help out.
AS always, if you ever need any further direction or advice, just ask... no such thing as a stupid question.

[downsy]

How old is your Jeep? Mileage? There's a pretty good chance the stock springs are worn out to start with. A "bastard pack" built from S10 leaves could be one options.

But putting Add a Leaves into a worn out suspension will make them sag much faster.

[packmule1911]

2001 Limited. 155k miles. Looks to have been a city-only vehicle. No dents or dings, and a really clean undercarriage.

[NW99XJ]

2001 Limited. 155k miles. Looks to have been a city-only vehicle. No dents or dings, and a really clean undercarriage.

Thats a FANTASTIC platform to build off of.
We like pics around here... so when you get parts, during your installation, and the finished work... be sure to take pics and post em up!
Speaking of which... lets see a good "before" pic! :D

[prerunner1982]

But putting Add a Leaves into a worn out suspension will make them sag much faster.

I think longer shackles will do the same... my leaf packs went from having a smirk :rolleyes:... to frowning. :mad:

:D

Looking at doing a bastard pack with some springs I have laying around.

[downsy]

That's why I replaced my rear leaves with Crown HD leaves. When unloaded it measured to "spec" but when I put any kind of load in the back the bump stops would be almost ontop of the axle with only about an inch of clearance.

All 4 springs were just worn out after 180k miles and many years of service and my suspension would blow though it's travel and smash the bump stops constantly.

[packmule1911]

Thats a FANTASTIC platform to build off of.
We like pics around here... so when you get parts, during your installation, and the finished work... be sure to take pics and post em up!
Speaking of which... lets see a good "before" pic! :D

Thanks. I got a bit concerned shortly after I traded for it. A bunch of stuff was going wrong, that would have been found beforehand if I had gotten a proper inspection. I skirted that, foolishly, because I wanted it, plain and simple.

Here's the car as it sits now. More images in my garage.

[bluedragon436]

That looks like an awesome clean platform to build off of.. Would look good with a BB or 3" lift and some decent "larger" tires..

[toad2169]

Good read



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[cpttuna]

teraflex budget boost. I paid $142 for the parts. It has been done on two of my jeeps.

[packmule1911]

Back to this again. Learned a great deal since this early post. Thank you all who've been teachers.

The goal is 2-3". I do not want to be forced to get new shocks right away, or drop the TC. Am I safe with 3" with that in mind?

My leaf's are sagging, so I think before I lift it, I need to get those back where they need to be. Once that's done, then add-a-leaf or shackles make sense I think. Thoughts?

On the front, thinking of using taller springs or spacers, or both depending on what I need.

Thanks All.

[4.3LXJ]

If you are going the full 3" I would use the S10 bastard pack. That will save you a lot of money.

[packmule1911]

If you are going the full 3" I would use the S10 bastard pack. That will save you a lot of money.

But I should add the S10 leaf to a good factory set, right? If I add the S-10 to a sagging booty, it's not going to last.

[4.3LXJ]

The only thing you keep is the main leaf. So if you use that route, you don't have to repair or upgrade the rest.

[packmule1911]

That sounds different than I thought. I thought you took one of the longer S10's and inserted it into the XJ pack. What you're saying sounds like you take all of the S10 springs and add them to the longest XJ only.

[4.3LXJ]

You take the bottom three S10 leaves and substitute them for the bottom three XJ leaves. simple substitution

[packmule1911]

You take the bottom three S10 leaves and substitute them for the bottom three XJ leaves. simple substitution

Thanks. Different than another combo I found, so wanted to make sure.

The result would then be, no sag and 3" lift above factory height?

I've got some around town for '94 - '00 S-10's. 2WD and 4WD, with ABS. Does any of that matter? $45 each.

[4.3LXJ]

Actually about 3.5"

[packmule1911]

Is the front end strategy of springs + spacers solid?

If so, what combinations do you suggest? V8 ZJ coils aren't easy to find around here.

Does it matter what S10 the leafs are pulled from?

[GoneWithTheWind]

Back to this again. Learned a great deal since this early post. Thank you all who been teachers.

The goal is 2-3". I do not want to be forced to get new shocks right away, or drop the TC. Am I safe with 3" with that in mind?

My leaf's are sagging, so I think before I lift it, I need to get those back where they need to be. Once that's done, then add-a-leaf or shackles make sense I think. Thoughts?

On the front, thinking of using taller springs or spacers, or both depending on what I need.

Thanks All.
I just put in a standard 2" lift from Rubicon. Coil spacers and blocks. (I was told using blocks wouldn't cause problems) The lift looks closer to 3" and I have a slight vibration at my t-case. I was also told that this short of a lift wouldn't cause any problems.Today I'll be dropping my t-case about 3/4". I'm hoping this will stop my vibration. Outside of the minor issues, I like the look. I just hope it functions well. Good luck with your lift.

[downsy]

Actually all you use from your xj pack is be main leaf. Everything else is Dakota or S-10 leaves.

I did the bastard pack on a 100k mile xj and had good results using the old main leaf.


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[packmule1911]

Actually all you use from your xj pack is be main leaf. Everything else is Dakota or S-10 leaves.

Does it matter what flavor of S-10 they come from? I've got several options at the salvage yard (2x4, 4x4, ext. cab, sport, ABS). $45 a set.

[downsy]

I used some random Dakota leaves so not sure on the S-10 side. Dimensions should be the same with different spring rates and leaves between models.


Sent from my iPhone

[packmule1911]

Closing in on the plan. S-10 bastard pack for the rear.

Front: Read info in an earlier link about using F-150 front coils or V8 ZJ coils. I can't find any Up Country V8 ZJ coils used, but I've got plenty of F-150 options. ZJ's new can be had for less than $100 new though.

For F-150 coils on the auto salvage website, I'm present these filters on front coils.

Front, (spring code), 1
Front, (spring code), 3
Front, (spring code), 4
Front, (spring code), 5
Front, (spring code), 6
Front, (spring code), 7
Front, (spring code), 8
Front, (spring code), 9
Front, (spring code), B
Front, (spring code), I
Front, (spring code), J
Front, (spring code), K
Front, (spring code), LH
Front, (spring code), M
Front, (spring code), P
Front, (spring code), RH
Front, (spring code), S
Front, (spring code), T
Front, (spring code), U

Anyone have an idea on what the codes mean?

[downsy]

Just buy the coils new they are cheap.

Moog CC782 is a good option for a good ride and flex but you'll have to put some coil spring isolators in to get to desired height. These are the V8zj springs. I'm running these springs now and they do ride well.

I used the F-150 springs on my last XJ and liked them but it will make it ride more like a truck. Because well they are truck springs. They did give me a bit more lift without extra isolators though probably because the spring rate was higher. Part number for these are ACDELCO 45h1025.

Either set will run 70 to 80 for a new set.

Check out this link. It's the one I followed when I did this lift on my last XJ

http://www.lunghd.com/Tech_Articles/Suspension_Steering_Axles_and_Brakes/Budget_Lift.htm




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[downsy]

If you were going to replace the rear leaf packs I'd tell you to just buy these. They are "upcountry" spec so a bit higher spring rate which is what makes it rider higher.
Crown Automotive 4886186AA Leaf Spring Assembly https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009X1YAZS/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_ahedwbHWY2W2B

They are a bit more work because they don't come with bushings in them but is a full new leaf pack. Again I really like mine.

Check out the reviews on the lead spring link for people who did just what you are wanting to do. It's why I bought them.



Sent from my iPhone

[GoneWithTheWind]

No need to apologize,
ALL questions are welcome here.
For the price range you DO have a few options, and of course there’s always a right way and a wrong way to do things.
"Budget Boosts" ...or baby lifts, come in a variety of flavors, and can be accomplished a number of different ways.

One of the ways to stay away from (although its typically on the least expensive side) is lifting the rear by using blocks between the leaf springs and the axle.
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQKyQQLqUxjLEmIZBaVCWFDs4v0TB8rd GUXVNEU5gMiL7ptvkS8nQ
http://www.cherokeeforum.com/attachments/f67/139698d1345937229t-can-lift-blocks-used-rear-lift-forumrunner_20120825_192703.jpg

Although this will give you the lift you’re looking for, it puts a strain on the U-joints in the driveline, and makes you susceptible to axle wrap….
http://www.activesuspension.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Axlewrap.jpeg

That being said, if you NEVER plan on towing anything, or EVER going offroad, then this may actually be a viable option for you.
Another option is for the rear is what’s called an “Add-a-Leaf” ….which means you are basically just adding a leaf to your existing leaf pack…
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$(KGrHqIOKjYE0-oKNQQkBNe!mT,Eww~~_35.JPG

Another option is to use a lift shackle… the shackle is the part that connects the end of the leaf spring to the body.
http://www.ericsxj.com/random/shackles.jpg
These come in a wide variety of styles, and sizes. A word of warning though…. They can be a pain in the ass to install.
What typically happens is the bolt seizes to the metal sleeve inside the bushing,
and even though you may be able to back the bolt out from the nutsert in the body, it will just spin inside, and not come out of the bushing sleeve.
There are tips and tricks to get around this, but we’ll jump off that bridge when we come to it.

As for the front, well… your options are a lot easier…. Either go with a taller spring, or use spring spacers.
http://www.quadratec.com/Assets/Images/24505/24505-lg.jpg

These go between the body and the coil spring, and come in a variety of colors, and sizes (thicknesses)
http://www.4x4wire.com/jeep/tech/susp/xj_ome_tflx/front/lktfafter.jpg

If you REALLY want to stay cheap…. You can go to the junkyard and start collecting spring isolators, and start stacking these up to get the desired lift height.
The spring isolators, are basically just a thin (typically anywhere from a ¼” to 3/8” or so) doughnut of rubber, that isolates the metal spring from the metal of the body.
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l174/AVR2/IMG_0360.jpg

There are a variety of kits out there that have a combination of these methods, and they all vary in quality, price and ease of installation... there are also a hundred different places to go, and shop, and they all offer varying prices, and levels of customer service. Honestly, it would take a full day of work to list every conceivable option, vendor, and price list, not to mention all the tips and tricks you'll need to know about when it comes to the installation.

Dont rule out the option of going used. I will tell you, that over half of MY Jeep build has been sourced thru Craigslist.
Dont let the desire for instant gratification get in the way of saving some money... and if possible... consider waiting until your tax returns come in and spend a little more for a more complete kit. (just my advice here)

Hopefully this hasn't clouded things for you and has provided you with some help and direction.
Be sure to post up what you ended up going with, and we'll start getting into some installation advice.

Is this Fact or Opinion?

[4.3LXJ]

It is all fact. If you are referring to the spacer blocks, they are used on other vehicles like pickups. But those vehicles have much thicker springs with higher spring rates and do not suffer from so much axle wrap.

[GoneWithTheWind]

I was just wondering where your facts on the blocks come from. The reason I ask is that if it is a known problem, why would they put them in a kit made for the Cherokee?
Everyone I talked to at 4wd said I wouldn't have any problems with the Rubicon 2" standard lift W/blocks.
I can't seem to get a straight answer, and I'm getting tired of this...........

[4.3LXJ]

If you are not doing anything hardcore, no you won't have any problem. However if you are going to get serious off road, there is a potential to pull the rear driveline off the tail shaft.

[GoneWithTheWind]

I'm not trying to be a smart a. but you haven't told me where your facts come from. are they based on the fact that you were doing something where you might break a part anyway? Or does this fact come from somewhere else?

[downsy]

I was just wondering where your facts on the blocks come from. The reason I ask is that if it is a known problem, why would they put them in a kit made for the Cherokee?
Everyone I talked to at 4wd said I wouldn't have any problems with the Rubicon 2" standard lift W/blocks.
I can't seem to get a straight answer, and I'm getting tired of this...........

THose guys are trying to sell you "stuff", they pobably know you aren't going to buy a full lift so they'll sell you whatever they can that they carry. The fact is the flexi XJ leaves aren't the best candidate for lift blocks. Just the way it is. The knowledge base here and over at places like NAXJA is VAST. A lot of folks here (myself included) have owned numerous XJs and have modified them to one extent or another and if someone has thought of a suspension mod someone (most times countless people) have tried it and have personal experience with it.

I'd suggest the bastard pack and coil spring pucks over lift blocks for the rear any day of the week on the XJ. If you were in a pickup truck go for it. But I can't in good conscience recommend lift blocks. What the guys are posting about axle wrap is true it's a problem on XJs even without lift blocks in some instances especially if the springs are especially worn out, it's just physics and leverage. :xj-blue:

Companies built stuff that isn't a great idea all the time and people buy it. They get in on all levels of the market no matter what because they are in it to generate money.

At the age most XJs are now days add a leaf systems and block systems are a bad idea. The bastard pack works because you basically rebuild the whole leaf pack minus the main spring using pickup truck leaf springs which usually have a higher spring rate (stiffer) than stock XJ springs.

[GoneWithTheWind]

I want my Suburban back!

[GoneWithTheWind]

I grew up on Chevys and never had to put up with so much bs just trying to fix something up as I have with this Cherokee.

[downsy]

You could always get another Chevy?


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[nickyg]

I used 1 leaf from a s10 leaf spring and 2 inch daystar spacers in front. My total cost was like 50 bucks. It took 2 jacks, stands. 2 C clamps and a bunch of sockets and wrenches. It got me 2 inches of lift.

[GoneWithTheWind]

You could always get another Chevy?


Sent from my iPhone

I probably will.

[4.3LXJ]

I'm not trying to be a smart a. but you haven't told me where your facts come from. are they based on the fact that you were doing something where you might break a part anyway? Or does this fact come from somewhere else?

I understand. You are relatively new, so you don't know me. I am kinda old, so I was around in the 70s when lift kits started becoming popular. During that time, I had a business designing and installing custom lift kits for just about anything. That paid for lots of fun R&D. Eventually Rancho put me out of business. If I had my own forge, I could have stayed in business. But anyway, the point is that I have a lot of expertise in suspensions. Well, except for coilovers anyway. I made lots of kits for pickups with my own lift blocks so I know what they will do and what they won't. That being said, when I make recommendations I try not to suggest anything that would be marginal. On an XJ, lift blocks are marginal. So are add a leafs

[packmule1911]

I'm going with S-10 leaf packs with my main XJ leaf, and new or used coils from either a XJ or F-150.

But then that brings me to the shocks (which I just replaced with OEM), and so on. This is my daily driver. While I want to hit some trails someday, I don't have the tires for it yet, and I don't know where the trails are anyway. So in the meantime, I simply want to do a few things here and there, learn from the experience, and incrementally make modifications as I can afford them. Affording any of it is hard to do.

Since I don't have the modification experience many of you folks do, I am concerned about how the total cost creeps up on the unexperienced. I can't swing a big batch of stuff to change. My wife and I describe life with our teen as "and then". We read the expression somewhere. It's like this, "and then, he gave himself a tattoo", "and then, he got a blue mohawk", "and then he said he wants to get his nose pierced", ......... and then ........ and so on.

So, by trying to find the modest approach, and still have a little fun, I hope to avoid the "and then I had to get a SYE", "and then I had to drop the TC an inch", and so on. All of the possible "and then's" sound like great fun, but I can't go all in just yet.

[packmule1911]

I used 1 leaf from a s10 leaf spring and 2 inch daystar spacers in front. My total cost was like 50 bucks. It took 2 jacks, stands. 2 C clamps and a bunch of sockets and wrenches. It got me 2 inches of lift.

$50 sounds like my budget, but one side of S-10 leaf springs costs $50 around here.

I hear that spacers are noisy. Any trouble with them?

[GoneWithTheWind]

Thank you! your right , I don't know anyone on here and I'm not used to being so open about myself but I thought I'd give it a shot.
But I'm pretty mad w/4wd and myself for being so gullible to believe someone that sells to make a living. Its just that when I ask a specific question, I expect an honest answer. I'll be on the phone in the morning, unless I decide to just show up. Either way they won't be happy to hear from me.

[GoneWithTheWind]

I used 1 leaf from a s10 leaf spring and 2 inch daystar spacers in front. My total cost was like 50 bucks. It took 2 jacks, stands. 2 C clamps and a bunch of sockets and wrenches. It got me 2 inches of lift.

Which leaf did you use? bottom, second one up? I have most tools except a good press.

[GoneWithTheWind]

I'm going with S-10 leaf packs with my main XJ leaf, and new or used coils from either a XJ or F-150.

But then that brings me to the shocks (which I just replaced with OEM), and so on. This is my daily driver. While I want to hit some trails someday, I don't have the tires for it yet, and I don't know where the trails are anyway. So in the meantime, I simply want to do a few things here and there, learn from the experience, and incrementally make modifications as I can afford them. Affording any of it is hard to do.

Since I don't have the modification experience many of you folks do, I am concerned about how the total cost creeps up on the unexperienced. I can't swing a big batch of stuff to change. My wife and I describe life with our teen as "and then". We read the expression somewhere. It's like this, "and then, he gave himself a tattoo", "and then, he got a blue mohawk", "and then he said he wants to get his nose pierced", ......... and then ........ and so on.

So, by trying to find the modest approach, and still have a little fun, I hope to avoid the "and then I had to get a SYE", "and then I had to drop the TC an inch", and so on. All of the possible "and then's" sound like great fun, but I can't go all in just yet.

We're in a the same budget boat, only I'm already in the and then zone.
I replaced all of my suspension And then, after 2 months my new rug ridge front springs are worse than my old ones. I put my old ones back in. And then, I decided to do a modest lift..............
I feel for you and your budget.

[prerunner1982]

$50 sounds like my budget, but one side of S-10 leaf springs costs $50 around here.

I hear that spacers are noisy. Any trouble with them?

I run spacers on my 93 and never noticed any noise... but then again they would have to be noisier than my tires and my exhaust for me to notice. :D

[prerunner1982]

Im in the same budget build category as well. Instead of s10 or dakota springs though I have 1/2 ton Chevy springs but rather than using the whole pack I am going to mix and match with the XJ pack and see if I can come up with a happy medium of lift and ride. For the front I am going with ZJ V8 coils and spacers but have a lead on some Metal Cloak 3.5" coils. Now if only I had time.

[downsy]

Thank you! your right , I don't know anyone on here and I'm not used to being so open about myself but I thought I'd give it a shot.
But I'm pretty mad w/4wd and myself for being so gullible to believe someone that sells to make a living. Its just that when I ask a specific question, I expect an honest answer. I'll be on the phone in the morning, unless I decide to just show up. Either way they won't be happy to hear from me.


Don't be too hard on them. They're just doing a job and probably don't know all the ins and outs of Jeep Cherokees. They probably sell tons of Chevy/Ford block lifts and never had an issue and just assume it must be ok for everything to run blocks.

Not really their fault just what you get when you go to any parts store especially an aftermarket parts store.


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[GoneWithTheWind]

Don't be too hard on them. They're just doing a job and probably don't know all the ins and outs of Jeep Cherokees. They probably sell tons of Chevy/Ford block lifts and never had an issue and just assume it must be ok for everything to run blocks.

Not really their fault just what you get when you go to any parts store especially an aftermarket parts store.


Sent from my iPhone
I didn't sleep much, still mad. the salesman I talked to assured me I would have no problems, as he also has a Cherokee. He told me I would not have any vibration problems, well I did and had to drop my t-case. As a Cherokee owner that has lifted his rig, I figure he should know the blocks would be a bad choice. I talked to this guy about different lift kits for the past month. I was going to do an add a leaf, but he told me the blocks would work just as well.
Don't be hard on them? I feel like I've been straight up lied to just to make:mad0090: a sale.

[prerunner1982]

I am surprised he told you that, especially considering you were (as it seems anyway) willing to buy an add-a-leaf lift kit. In my opinion the AAL (add a leaf) is a better choice than the block. The block adds too much leverage to the leaf pack where the AAL does not. Unfortunately either way they are both really only temporary solutions. Blocks cause the leaf springs to twist (aka axle wrap) which will weaken the pack and potentially break a leaf. An AAL will over time lose it's arch and start to sag.

I ended up going with a shackle lift.... and now my leaf packs are frowning. I don't know whether it is because of the shackle or just 22 yr old leaf packs that have been used hard.

[GoneWithTheWind]

They did warn me about shackles.
Here is what my springs look like w/ the blocks. It looks like they are already thinking about getting into an s shape.
http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/yy96/herein97217xj/DSC00547_zpsy928pepl.jpg (http://s781.photobucket.com/user/herein97217xj/media/DSC00547_zpsy928pepl.jpg.html)http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/yy96/herein97217xj/DSC00548_zps2eleq6qt.jpg (http://s781.photobucket.com/user/herein97217xj/media/DSC00548_zps2eleq6qt.jpg.html)
This is what it looks like.
http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/yy96/herein97217xj/DSC00542_zpssv0zrifd.jpg (http://s781.photobucket.com/user/herein97217xj/media/DSC00542_zpssv0zrifd.jpg.html)

I think I'm going to pull it all and get my money back.

[GoneWithTheWind]

Just talked to Mike Vu at 4wd. He told me blocks are fine, he's used up to 4" blocks w/no problem. Blocks have NO known issues w/Cherokees. And he doesn't listen to people on forums. I'm returning the lift kit. Done w/this s.......

[GoneWithTheWind]

I talked to my dads mechanic a little while ago. His shop is just 2 houses away, had to borrow his stud extractor yesterday to drop my t-case. We talked about the blocks and he recommends them for a short lift. I drove out to 4wd and apologized for a few things I said. They maintain that there is no problem using blocks. Who do I believe at this point? I don't know anyone at 4wd any better than I do anyone on here. I have to go with my dads mechanic.
I'll leave the blocks in for now, for better or worse time will tell.

[Mudderoy]

I just put in a standard 2" lift from Rubicon. Coil spacers and blocks. (I was told using blocks wouldn't cause problems) The lift looks closer to 3" and I have a slight vibration at my t-case. I was also told that this short of a lift wouldn't cause any problems.Today I'll be dropping my t-case about 3/4". I'm hoping this will stop my vibration. Outside of the minor issues, I like the look. I just hope it functions well. Good luck with your lift.

I've read that the leaf springs on a XJ aren't strong enough to stop leaf spring wrap that occurs when you use blocks. I guess it depends on how much skinny pedal and torque you use.

[downsy]

He can listen to whatever/whoever he wants to.

I don't listen to mechanics and parts monkeys trying to sell me stuff most times. They're biased and have a personal interest in selling you parts.

Folks on forums on the other hand have no reason to mislead or push you towards parts that may cause other issues in the long run. They have no need to. None of us on this thread is trying to sell you anything only help you make the best choice for the options you have.

When I make a modification I'm not sure about I research the hell out of it on NAXJA here and elsewhere and make an informed decision on my own.

Sent from my iPhone

[Mudderoy]

I talked to my dads mechanic a little while ago. His shop is just 2 houses away, had to borrow his stud extractor yesterday to drop my t-case. We talked about the blocks and he recommends them for a short lift. I drove out to 4wd and apologized for a few things I said. They maintain that there is no problem using blocks. Who do I believe at this point? I don't know anyone at 4wd any better than I do anyone on here. I have to go with my dads mechanic.
I'll leave the blocks in for now, for better or worse time will tell.

I have no personal experience with blocks on my Cherokee, the warning was enough. I bet it's okay if you don't go off road with it and put a lot of stress on those leaves. Those leafs will have to be replaced eventually, you might want to consider ditching the blocks by then.

Let us know how it works out for you. You may find with how you use your Jeep the blocks will be fine.

[Mudderoy]

Stuff I'm finding on the Internet...


I had blocks and they caused my springs to fail, and by fail I mean break on the highway, freaky at best. "~ Stay away from blocks ENTIRELY!" As quoted earlier in the post.....Also, I still have the broken pieces, for a good story if needed.


Ive been running blocks for over seven years no issues got pictures on stock leafs seem to be the factor


now first off blocks are not recommended at all cause they cause axle wrap (can cause axle to rip itself out from under the jeep), but if you just drive it on the steet then you could go 1.5" in the back (I would recommend lift shackles. they are just as cheap and safer) and a 2 inch spacer up front. that will allow you to run 30" tires or 31's with a bit of trimming.



i want to share my experience and advice with those lifting their cherokee.
avoid lift blocks.

here is my 97xj with an add-a-leaf and a 2" or so lift block.
this set up got me 3 or 3.5 inches of lift with the stock shackles.


i have had blocks which have both cracked and failed completely.
in my opinion lift blocks can be dangerous and detrimental to your vehicle.
if you do any moderately technical wheeling, get a full spring pack for your lift.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3184/2623186894_4569610749.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3227/2622362737_c4505661b6.jpg

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g18/Jeepboy381/NWFest08125.jpg



You'll notice the failure for that last guy he was actually using the Jeep off road.

:link: (http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1021916)

http://fototime.com/239A594EC5B88A7/standard.jpg

All we can do is share our opinions with you. You should do what you think is best for you and your Jeep.

[GoneWithTheWind]

Going back to stock. No spacers, no blocks, no spring packs, no nuthin!

[nickyg]

$50 sounds like my budget, but one side of S-10 leaf springs costs $50 around here.

I hear that spacers are noisy. Any trouble with them?

The pullapart in N. charlotte sells leafsprings for 16. I bought 1 and cut 2 leafs to the same size with a angle grinder

I have a bunch of squeaks and rattles. but none from the springs.


I did have to buy a few of spring clamps at about 2 bucks apiece.

[Mudderoy]

Shackles are pretty cheap, and then spacers for the front, and we're talking $75?

[packmule1911]

Shackles are pretty cheap, and then spacers for the front, and we're talking $75?

I would be fine with shackles, but since I've got frowning leafs I'm going to go ahead with the S-10 pack first, and then see about shackles. I hope to get what I want out of the S-10's.

[Mudderoy]

I would be fine with shackles, but since I've got frowning leafs I'm going to go ahead with the S-10 pack first, and then see about shackles. I hope to get what I want out of the S-10's.

lol reminds me of a lifted 2wd cherokee I saw one day, shackles must have been 8 inches long, home made, and that leaf was low in the back, really low.

[packmule1911]

To the front:

Read that you can run stock shocks for up to 3". I expect it's not ideal, at the least, but for a daily driver and tame trails is what I read reasonable?

[Mudderoy]

To the front:

Read that you can run stock shocks for up to 3". I expect it's not ideal, at the least, but for a daily driver and tame trails is what I read reasonable?

I hear it's fine, you just lose flex. There was one guy that was running spacers with long arms and the spacers and springs would come out! :mock:

[prerunner1982]

I ran stock shocks with 2" spacers and they were fine, 3" may be the limit.

Are you a member of a local Jeep group/club? I am lucky to be a member of one of, if not the largest Jeep group in Oklahoma. I read on a thread here (http://www.xjtalk.com/showthread.php?t=5646) that stock JK shocks may work with a lift. I posted in the local Jeep groups FB page and had people wanting to sell me and people wanting to give me their JK shocks, springs, and control arms. I ended up with a complete suspension for free with only about 5k miles on it.

I also read that some of the JK arms may work as well.

When you are building on a budget using junkyard parts sometimes requires a little trial and error.

[Mayooo]

Let me throw in my two cents with this.. By no means am I a professional with this. Just good ol redneck trial & error.. I bought my xj two years ago from a guy that put 3" blocks on the rear and spacers up front. I've never been the one to run blocks just never trusted them. The thing about axle wrap is that it can happen and with worn springs you put yourself in greater risk. My XJ started to develop it. If you take your xj beyond the gravel roads your going to find that blocks are not a good approach to a lift. You can get away with them as a daily driver and a deer spotting trip down a back dirt road.

Like most, money is tight now a days. Believe me... I got a 9 month old and phew they are expensive. It has taken two years to finally get my lift. My lift is 4.5" with full leaf packs. I did a lot of research for months while I saved up. And my lift is built up from several companies.

My best advice to give you is that if your rear springs are already soft and weak. Your best bet is to get new lift springs. Not only will it save you troubles down the road. It will also allow much more opportunities for later mods. Suspension is something I just don't feel should be rigged up with blocks or put together out of a junkyard.

[drakan1908]

lol reminds me of a lifted 2wd cherokee I saw one day, shackles must have been 8 inches long, home made, and that leaf was low in the back, really low.
I think they make skid plate for low hanging shackles. Lol [emoji87]

sent from a van down by the river

[GoneWithTheWind]

Stuff I'm finding on the Internet...









You'll notice the failure for that last guy he was actually using the Jeep off road.

:link: (http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1021916)

http://fototime.com/239A594EC5B88A7/standard.jpg

All we can do is share our opinions with you. You should do what you think is best for you and your Jeep.
Thanks for the link, I read the info on the other site. The blocks I was sold are steel, not that I'm keeping them. The bottom pic looks like the leaves wood have broke anyway. Thanks again.

[GoneWithTheWind]

Let me throw in my two cents with this.. By no means am I a professional with this. Just good ol redneck trial & error.. I bought my xj two years ago from a guy that put 3" blocks on the rear and spacers up front. I've never been the one to run blocks just never trusted them. The thing about axle wrap is that it can happen and with worn springs you put yourself in greater risk. My XJ started to develop it. If you take your xj beyond the gravel roads your going to find that blocks are not a good approach to a lift. You can get away with them as a daily driver and a deer spotting trip down a back dirt road.

Like most, money is tight now a days. Believe me... I got a 9 month old and phew they are expensive. It has taken two years to finally get my lift. My lift is 4.5" with full leaf packs. I did a lot of research for months while I saved up. And my lift is built up from several companies.

My best advice to give you is that if your rear springs are already soft and weak. Your best bet is to get new lift springs. Not only will it save you troubles down the road. It will also allow much more opportunities for later mods. Suspension is something I just don't feel should be rigged up with blocks or put together out of a junkyard.

Those springs are only 2 months old, rugged ridge, supposed to be heavy duty. They started going flat after about 2 weeks, my new front coils did the same. I went to the wrecking yard and found some lift springs that were still mounted in the xj. They were holding it up better than anything I've had under mine so far. I'll pick them up tomorrow and see how it goes.

[GoneWithTheWind]

oops

[Mayooo]

Those springs are only 2 months old, rugged ridge, supposed to be heavy duty. They started going flat after about 2 weeks, my new front coils did the same. I went to the wrecking yard and found some lift springs that were still mounted in the xj. They were holding it up better than anything I've had under mine so far. I'll pick them up tomorrow and see how it goes.

If they are going flat already I definitely would be calling the company. Springs will level out and settle down. $40 at advance auto will get you Chevy drop shackles. They are good for 1-1 1/2 inch of lift. Front you can do 1 inch spacers. But that would be my limit on spacers (Just personal opinion). That should bring you back up to the lift height that you had.

[packmule1911]

I hear it's fine, you just lose flex. There was one guy that was running spacers with long arms and the spacers and springs would come out! :mock:


Lose flex? Meaning travel range of the shock?

[packmule1911]

I ran stock shocks with 2" spacers and they were fine, 3" may be the limit.

Are you a member of a local Jeep group/club?


Not aware of any clubs where I'm at: Durham NC area.

[GoneWithTheWind]

I talked to the shop I got my springs from and it's not worth the price of shipping to get more of the same. Getting my money back? doubtful.
Right now I need new rear springs. The used ones give me a chance to see if I want to keep the rest of the lift kit. If I like it I'll get new ones, if not I'll take out the rest of the kit and get stock springs.

[packmule1911]

One question I still had: does it matter which model of S-10 I get leafs from: 2wd, 4wd, sport, w/ abs, etc?

Also, there's a set of TJ coils for $60. Would those work, or am I still looking for F-150's or Up Country?

[prerunner1982]

Regular TJ coils will lower yoru XJ about 1". If they are lift coils they will lift 1" less than they say.

[downsy]

IIRC TJ coils are the same as XJ coils. ZJ V8 Coils or F150 coils. Pick your ride harshness haha.

[prerunner1982]

Lose flex? Meaning travel range of the shock?

Flex meaning suspension travel, the shocks will limit the travel. Not only is it hard on the shocks it doesnt help off road.

[packmule1911]

Flex meaning suspension travel, the shocks will limit the travel. Not only is it hard on the shocks it doesnt help off road.


Thanks. Just looking to get by for a while. I'll replace them as soon as I can with the right ones.

[4.3LXJ]

IIRC TJ coils are the same as XJ coils. ZJ V8 Coils or F150 coils. Pick your ride harshness haha.

An XJ coil on a TJ will give a taller lift. I have my 3" coils on the front of my kids TJ yielding 5" of lift

[nickyg]

One question I still had: does it matter which model of S-10 I get leafs from: 2wd, 4wd, sport, w/ abs, etc?
?

Any s 10 leaf spring will work The 1 I grabbed was a regular cab 2 wheel drive. (can't remember the year)
I believe any leaf spring with the same width will do the trick .like the dodge dakota for example.

[Mudderoy]

Lose flex? Meaning travel range of the shock?

I've never gone with spacers. If I need more height I go with replacement coils, but I have heard that spacers give you the added height but you lose flex since the spring has less range of travel. If your shock is limiting the travel after the spacer I guess the shock is too short.

[packmule1911]

For F-150 coils are identified with a spring code. Not finding any information about what the codes equate to with regards to ride quality i.e. firm, brutal, squishy, etc.

Anyone know? Can get used ones for $40 around here, or a new set of Moog "variable rate" springs new for $85.

[drakan1908]

I've never gone with spacers. If I need more height I go with replacement coils, but I have heard that spacers give you the added height but you lose flex since the spring has less range of travel. If your shock is limiting the travel after the spacer I guess the shock is too short.
I had more flex when I ran the spacers with stock springs. The stock springs have a softer rate than the RC springs I have now. But then again I have coils all around so that might make a difference.

sent from a van down by the river

[GoneWithTheWind]

This is why I wanted to lift my Jeep a few inches. I have to drive around in this stuff once in awhile. This is my old Suburban at my old house off the grid about 10 years ago.
http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/yy96/herein97217xj/Scan_zpsxft5bsym.jpg (http://s781.photobucket.com/user/herein97217xj/media/Scan_zpsxft5bsym.jpg.html)

[GoneWithTheWind]

I think I had these blocks in for about a week, they only wore on the forward half and more on one than the other.http://http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm37/herein97217xj/DSC00577_zpsu8u5drlt.jpg (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/herein97217xj/media/DSC00577_zpsu8u5drlt.jpg.html)
All of the rugged ridge springs are laying outside getting rusty. I got a bastard pack from the wrecking yard, put in new bushings and I put my old coil springs back in w/the spacers. Had to drop the transfer case.
http://http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm37/herein97217xj/DSC00555_zpstsfnwclt.jpg (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/herein97217xj/media/DSC00555_zpstsfnwclt.jpg.html)
I have a few inches of lift now and it rides good.
Maybe the picture fairy will make my pictures appear.

[prerunner1982]

Are the pictures you are trying to post already online (such as a picture hosting site) or on your computer?

[GoneWithTheWind]

Are the pictures you are trying to post already online (such as a picture hosting site) or on your computer?

The pics are in photobucket. When I copy and paste everything looks normal, I can see the link. When I post it, I don't see the picture. Some pictures have posted, but not all. I do the same thing each time.

[GoneWithTheWind]

I'm going to try this one more time.http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm37/herein97217xj/DSC00577_zpsu8u5drlt.jpg (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/herein97217xj/media/DSC00577_zpsu8u5drlt.jpg.html)http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm37/herein97217xj/DSC00555_zpstsfnwclt.jpg (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/herein97217xj/media/DSC00555_zpstsfnwclt.jpg.html)
It looks like things are working.