Better and more responsive steering.

[Mudderoy]

With my 98 XJ down for so many weeks and now again due to some surgery...

6807

I have been driving my wife's 2003 TJ to and from work. The steering is so sensitive and responsive I have to let go of the wheel if I sneeze, other wise I'm sure I'd flip it going any faster than 35 mph!

The last thing I drove that was this touchy was the 1995 Mustang we had, yes I'm serious.

Maybe you guys don't complain about the XJ steering because you don't know any different, or you've justified that bigger tires means harder to steer.

Well the TJ has 33x12.5x15 just like the 98 (AT on the TJ) and it is VERY nimble.

How do I get better and more responsive steering?!?!?!? I MUST have it! The TJ is such a breeze to drive. I still like my XJ better though. :D

[4.3LXJ]

One thing I did was install a higher pressure pump. Wasn't like a Cadillac, but did make a difference. There are also different valving for steering boxes. But I don't know how to tell the difference

[Mudderoy]

One thing I did was install a higher pressure pump. Wasn't like a Cadillac, but did make a difference. There are also different valving for steering boxes. But I don't know how to tell the difference

You told us about steering box and steering pump changes on XJ TALK SHOW! "Jeep Tips!"

I think the steering box was the Dodge Dakota but what was the power steering unit?

[4.3LXJ]

You have to get the from AGR. However James told me about one off a 2000 and up WJ that is about the same. I haven't verified that however

[Mudderoy]

You have to get the from AGR. However James told me about one off a 2000 and up WJ that is about the same. I haven't verified that however

Oh AGR is the steering box, you have to upgrade the power steering pump with it though, right?

http://www.agrperformance.com/AGR-Products/Super-box-large.jpg

Super Box SB2 series 262352

http://www.agrperformance.com/AGR-Products/AGR-TC-Pump.jpg

Super Pump 812256

[4.3LXJ]

AGR makes and sells boxes and pumps. You don't have to have the high pressure/high capacity pump for a standard box. But if you want stronger steering, and as it turns out a more sensitive steering, then the high pressure pump is in order. The standard size box, which is their tapped box for the auxiliary cylinder, will run off the stock pump. But if you use the rock ram, then you need the higher pressure pump. Also, if you want a fast responding steering with the larger Durango style box, which they also sell, then I would recommend the higher capacity box as well or you may turn the wheel faster than the steering will respond

[Mudderoy]

Wow! Check out the reviews!

Amazon.com: AGR Performance 262352 SB2 Series Steering Box for Jeep: Automotive@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41auP2TKAlL.@@AMEPARAM@@41auP2TKAlL

I'm not spending $450 for a steering box anyway.

[4.3LXJ]

Yup, both will make those big tires move

[bluedragon436]

You have to get the from AGR. However James told me about one off a 2000 and up WJ that is about the same. I haven't verified that however

As I was researching this quite a bit for my 98, and have been working doing it all again for my 97 as it already has a leaking steering box in need of a replacement always, figure might as well upgrade it while I'm replacing it anyways.. From what I've found online if you were to pick one up for a WJ, it has to be a 01-04, as they run a higher pressured pump then the 99-00 WJ's as the 99-00 run the exact same pumps on both the 4.0 as well as the 4.7..

[XJ Wheeler]

Wow! Check out the reviews!

Amazon.com: AGR Performance 262352 SB2 Series Steering Box for Jeep: [email]Automotive (http://www.amazon.com/AGR-Performance-262352-Series-Steering/dp/B003XUGY8Q)

I'm not spending $450 for a steering box anyway.

Yep, sounds about right. The guy who founded AGR eventually sold the company. It went downhill so bad he started PSC.

Sent via messenger pigeon - i talk, he types.

[Brasscatz]

I would like to know if the steering box/pump from an 87 chevy V10 pickup would work on the xj... my old truck had the easiest and tightest steering I've ever felt to this day, and it was turning 33's as well.

[4.3LXJ]

I would like to know if the steering box/pump from an 87 chevy V10 pickup would work on the xj... my old truck had the easiest and tightest steering I've ever felt to this day, and it was turning 33's as well.

The answer to that is maybe. The boxes came it two versions, regular and heavy duty and each of those in left and right hand. I don't know about the new ones, but the old Chevy PU had the right hand version. You would just need to look. If it bolts to the proper side of the frame, then yes it should work fine

[OrangeXJ]

With my 98 XJ down for so many weeks and now again due to some surgery...

6807

I have been driving my wife's 2003 TJ to and from work. The steering is so sensitive and responsive I have to let go of the wheel if I sneeze, other wise I'm sure I'd flip it going any faster than 35 mph!

The last thing I drove that was this touchy was the 1995 Mustang we had, yes I'm serious.

Maybe you guys don't complain about the XJ steering because you don't know any different, or you've justified that bigger tires means harder to steer.

Well the TJ has 33x12.5x15 just like the 98 (AT on the TJ) and it is VERY nimble.

How do I get better and more responsive steering?!?!?!? I MUST have it! The TJ is such a breeze to drive. I still like my XJ better though. :D

You are correct it took me awhile to get use to driving a TJ after having a XJ. What I have noticed is the bigger the tire is the more sensitive the steering is on a TJ. I have 37x13.5 on mine and have driven friends of mine TJ's with 40x15 and 44x15 and they scared the shit out of me till I got use to them. Maybe look and see how hard it would be to put a TJ steering box on a XJ.

[4.3LXJ]

It would fit fine

[denverd1]

Has anybody tried to tighten up the stock steering gear? I replaced mine with a refurb'd stock unit. Want to talk about loose steering? I should shoot a vid trying to negotiate corners in my neighborhood. I guarantee I have at LEAST 180* of slack in the wheel. the dead spot in the center is HUGE. and seems worse after beating on it pretty good on Saturday at Barnwell.

there's an adjustment on top of the gear. I think you loosen a hex head nut, then turn the allen head 60 to 90* and tighten back down. Haven't done it yet, but I need to. the wife may need to drive the XJ one day and there's no way she's driving it like it is. Mine's been trail only for a while so I haven't worried about it. I'll see what I can find

[denverd1]

the vid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAD0ugRQNek

Also I heard/read of someone running a smaller pulley on the PS pump to get more flow out of a stock pump. I don't even remember what it looked like when i had it out./... myth or would it work?

[abebehrmann]

I know autozone lists the same steering box for both the 99 XJ and the 99 TJ, but a different box for later years. OrangeXJ what year is yours? I wonder if it has anything to do with the box being mounted on a rigid frame vs a semi-rigid unit-body?

[4.3LXJ]

Has anybody tried to tighten up the stock steering gear? I replaced mine with a refurb'd stock unit. Want to talk about loose steering? I should shoot a vid trying to negotiate corners in my neighborhood. I guarantee I have at LEAST 180* of slack in the wheel. the dead spot in the center is HUGE. and seems worse after beating on it pretty good on Saturday at Barnwell.

there's an adjustment on top of the gear. I think you loosen a hex head nut, then turn the allen head 60 to 90* and tighten back down. Haven't done it yet, but I need to. the wife may need to drive the XJ one day and there's no way she's driving it like it is. Mine's been trail only for a while so I haven't worried about it. I'll see what I can find

Yes, I have done it many times. Even with a brand new box, you have to adjust them. My new AGR box was just as loose as yours and took several turns on the allen screw to tighten it up.

[Mudderoy]

Has anybody tried to tighten up the stock steering gear? I replaced mine with a refurb'd stock unit. Want to talk about loose steering? I should shoot a vid trying to negotiate corners in my neighborhood. I guarantee I have at LEAST 180* of slack in the wheel. the dead spot in the center is HUGE. and seems worse after beating on it pretty good on Saturday at Barnwell.

there's an adjustment on top of the gear. I think you loosen a hex head nut, then turn the allen head 60 to 90* and tighten back down. Haven't done it yet, but I need to. the wife may need to drive the XJ one day and there's no way she's driving it like it is. Mine's been trail only for a while so I haven't worried about it. I'll see what I can find

I had about a 4" dead spot in my steering after installing a dropped pitman arm. It was new. Eventually bought another one from a different company and it did the same thing. Turns out the nut wouldn't tightened down on the pitman arm, it was bottoming out on the steering box threads. Had a big a$$ thing washer made so I could get off the last threads and push against the pitman arm. I guess there was may a 1/16th of an inch movement up and down on the pitman arm that was causing all that play.

[OrangeXJ]

I know autozone lists the same steering box for both the 99 XJ and the 99 TJ, but a different box for later years. OrangeXJ what year is yours? I wonder if it has anything to do with the box being mounted on a rigid frame vs a semi-rigid unit-body?

It's a 97

[abebehrmann]

It's a 97

Same part number as our XJ steering box too. Hmmmmm, that definitely makes me think that it has to be something other than the box.

[4.3LXJ]

Don't forget that the TJ has a lighter front end than an XJ

[denverd1]

I know autozone lists the same steering box for both the 99 XJ and the 99 TJ, but a different box for later years. OrangeXJ what year is yours? I wonder if it has anything to do with the box being mounted on a rigid frame vs a semi-rigid unit-body?

Had a shop tell me the dead spot was from play in the unibody where the box bolted up. turns out after a few miles I needed to retighten the bolts holding the gear

[denverd1]

i think my pump is sad, wheels harder to turn when it's cold and first start


me too. just replaced my pump when I did the gear to eliminate possible leak points. guess I'll see if I can find it.

going to tighten it up a bit and see if that helps

[Mudderoy]

I know autozone lists the same steering box for both the 99 XJ and the 99 TJ, but a different box for later years. OrangeXJ what year is yours? I wonder if it has anything to do with the box being mounted on a rigid frame vs a semi-rigid unit-body?

Mine is mounted on a ridged frame, namely my custom bumper.

[Brasscatz]

Soooo question. I've tightened my steering box before and it sure helped.... but I'm curious about what happens if you tighten it too much. Are we talking steering failure?

[4.3LXJ]

The first thing is that it will feel stiff and not not want to return to center. I suppose beyond that you could damage it, but as soon as you drove it you would know

[Brasscatz]

Good to know, thanks Steve

[denverd1]

So i just got done tightening mine. What a world of difference. Mine is way tighter than it was before, not too tight I don't think as it happily returns to center when you let go of the wheel. Took me 2 tries with a test drive after each tightening. Did about 270* the first, then about 180* on second. Much better!
Shot a before vid, I'll load it up then post it

[Mudderoy]

So i just got done tightening mine. What a world of difference. Mine is way tighter than it was before, not too tight I don't think as it happily returns to center when you let go of the wheel. Took me 2 tries with a test drive after each tightening. Did about 270* the first, then about 180* on second. Much better!
Shot a before vid, I'll load it up then post it

I did that when I first was working the dead spot problem with mine. I found that it felt better, but the dead spot was still there. Kept looking until I found the problem.

[denverd1]

Loose wheel 2: http://youtu.be/Bv5di8Q1z5I

Had a dead spot from 10 to 2 o'clock before tightening things up

Notice the dead goose in my column. Only quacks when it's cold

[denverd1]

4 wheel parts offers this 4 3/4 inch pulley. an inch smaller than stock.
http://www.4wheelparts.com/Brakes-Steering/Serpentine-Pulley.aspx?t_c=65&t_s=430&t_pt=4053&t_pn=TGI130094-KIT

[Mudderoy]

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxNjAw/z/E2gAAOSwQItT~gQ1/$_57.JPG

http://www.ebay.com/itm/150975156505?item=150975156505&viewitem=&sspagename=ADME:SS:SS:US:3160&vxp=mtr

[denverd1]

Damn wish it would've been around 2 years ago.

[denverd1]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/07/328e4306fab331319c6adee5366912f7.jpg

[bluedragon436]

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxNjAw/z/E2gAAOSwQItT~gQ1/$_57.JPG

http://www.ebay.com/itm/150975156505?item=150975156505&viewitem=&sspagename=ADME:SS:SS:US:3160&vxp=mtr

Is this the proper one?? Don't see anywhere it lists the part number, to make sure it isn't any other random box that could be mounted up to the 97-99 Durango/Dakota... I need to pick up a gearbox for my XJ since mine is still leaking.. guess I'll keep driving her a bit longer and see who she does after a bit of use and such before really buying/upgrading just now!! But that price isn't too bad, to pick up just in case I guess..

[denverd1]

I spent about 175 IIRC for a refurbished stock gear

[autotech98]

I used to work for sheppard power steering. We made gearboxes for Mack International etc.Also made the gearboxes for military H1 and the oshkosh dragon wagons. Was gonna see if one would fit the xj but changed jobs before i had the chance.

[Mudderoy]

Is this the proper one?? Don't see anywhere it lists the part number, to make sure it isn't any other random box that could be mounted up to the 97-99 Durango/Dakota... I need to pick up a gearbox for my XJ since mine is still leaking.. guess I'll keep driving her a bit longer and see who she does after a bit of use and such before really buying/upgrading just now!! But that price isn't too bad, to pick up just in case I guess..

Don't know, 99 Durango is correct. I'd do a little more checking before I purchased this, but $139 is pretty nice.

[denverd1]

I used to work for sheppard power steering. We made gearboxes for Mack International etc.Also made the gearboxes for military H1 and the oshkosh dragon wagons. Was gonna see if one would fit the xj but changed jobs before i had the chance.

:bacondance: now THATS some serious PS systems!!! you could turn 40's with those!

[autotech98]

Check out iron revenge on youtube we custom built a box for him cause our stock application couldnt handle the stress. He stopped by the plant after the carlisle truck show. Its not an xj but still impressive rig.

[autotech98]

Also built the suspensions and steering gears for most of the MRAPs. The buffulo has two gearboxes on it

[denverd1]

Also built the suspensions and steering gears for most of the MRAPs. The buffulo has two gearboxes on it

one for each front tire?

[autotech98]

Yeah cause of the weight. And the suspension on the cougar cause they were fine in iraq with the level terrain but in afganistan they would flip so we prototyped and put into production in 1 week new trailing arms so they had more flex.if you get the chance check out the suspension on one of thoese. Pretty impressive with the weight and the high center of gravity on em

[autotech98]

It felt good to work for a company that did so much to protect my brothers and sisters in the military. But more money and better oportunities are hard to pass up

[denverd1]

so I've been driving the XJ to work since my truck is in the shop. I adjusted the steering gear help tighten it up and its a lot better. But its VERY stiff when cold and doesn't like to turn at all for the first 10 seconds. I also noticed today that it doesn't turn the wheels lock to lock. turning left, it goes to the wheel lock, turning right it does not - it's close to 1" short. I was very careful not to turn the wheel when i had the input shaft disco'd. So I'm guessing the rebuilt gear wasn't 100% centered when I installed it. I don't think the wheel would turn another 360* when turning to the right - so pulling the input shaft, turning the wheel 360* and reconnecting would leave the other side short.

Steering was tighter last week when I made the adjustment and seems to have loosened up a bit as though it needed a break-in.

any ideas on getting back to lock to lock steering??

also here's an underdrive PS pulley. smaller pulley should = fewer rotations to pump the same amount of fluid, or more fluid for the same number of engine rotations, however you want to look at it.
http://www.pscmotorsports.com/4-5-serpentine-6-rib-pulley-tc-series-pump.html

[4.3LXJ]

Just a hunch, check your steering stabilizer at lock to lock. Had a problem with mine the other day that way

[denverd1]

Just a hunch, check your steering stabilizer at lock to lock. Had a problem with mine the other day that way

Ok. my stabilizer def needs to be replaced.

Holy shit!! high flow pumps are $500! full hydro is $1000....

[4.3LXJ]

That was easy :D

[denverd1]

hey guys, how's your steering holding up?

Another question: If I'm rebuilding the frame rail where the gear mounts, couldn't I put just about any box there? I want to to this once and be done with it! thinking a full size truck box is what I want. I know the Durango box is an upgrade, but how much of an upgrade? would 35's stress it after a while?

end goal is hydro assist. I'm sure it matter which box you use, but isn't the pump the important part in an assisted system?

[4.3LXJ]

What you want to end up with Denver is the rock ram, available at AGR and the cheaper competition, the name of which has escaped me. There are two types of pumps. Standard and high pressure. Standard pressure is 1200# and high pressure is 1800#. There is a short cut on this by using a pump from a late WJ. Basically that gives you an increase of 50% strength. There are two types of boxes, the small and large ram Saginaw box. We have the small ram and the upgrade box you are mentioning is the larger ram. If you combine the two you get something like a 90% increase over OEM. If you use the ram assist you with it you get about double that. The larger box is standard on the TJ and YJ. We have 35s on the boy's TJ and no trouble without the ram assist

[denverd1]

sounds like a ram with stock pump and box would be plenty for 35s? what are you doing to push locked 37s around?

watched bleepinjeeps box rebuild vid. Probably just order the ram, hose, fittings,rebuild kit and tap the box myself. gotta rework the frame rail and gear mount area first

[4.3LXJ]

I will be doing the ram. Box is already tapped and I have the high pressure/volume pump already. The biggest issue with the larger tires I think is if you have a front locker. If you have something like an ARB, steering can get tough. The only time I have found some resistance not moving on a steep downhill. It grunts then for sure even with the high pressure pump.

[denverd1]

high pressure pump on the way!

[4.3LXJ]

Cool. Easiest steering mod yet.

[denverd1]

got high pressure pump.

Steve, what length/dia ram are you going to use? 8" length seems the norm

[4.3LXJ]

That is a question for which I don't have an answer yet. I will have a unique mounting that will not involve the tie rod, so I am not sure until I put the knuckles on. Right now the front is disassembled and I am trying to get the tubes swapped around

[denverd1]

That is a question for which I don't have an answer yet. I will have a unique mounting that will not involve the tie rod, so I am not sure until I put the knuckles on. Right now the front is disassembled and I am trying to get the tubes swapped around

mounting ram to tie rod?

[4.3LXJ]

Which was?

[denverd1]

Which was?Not following you. Maybe I'm asking it the wrong way.

Was asking how you're planning to mount your steering ram. I assume you'd mount it to axle. Are you using the ram exclusively? Or mounting to a tie rod? THE tie rod, the bar connecting steering knuckles

Another option is connecting at pitman arm.

IIRC you we're going hydro assist

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[4.3LXJ]

Ah, I get you now. I have a unique situation with my Scout II knuckles. What I will be doing is using a tie rod end instead of a clevis to a welded bracket to the axle. Then another tie rod end to the knuckle. I will use the inside position for the drag link and ram and outside for the tie rod. That would be the opposite of what the stock configuration is. Also I will use the extra long Scout pitman arm on the inside position. Will make for some fast steering

[denverd1]

tore down my front end, cut off front crossmember. got some 1/8" steel to weld to frame and some 3/16" to weld to the the 1/8" and finally some 1/4 for bumper mounts. took a whole hour to cut off the crap I paid to have WELDED on. fortunately, it was just beyond tack welded. wish I could post pics, gonna be fun fabbing it up and knowing my bumper is secure.

[4.3LXJ]

Want it done right, do it yourself

[denverd1]

Want it done right, do it yourself
yep, made the decision easy to buy a welder and "remind" myself how to do it.

[4.3LXJ]

That welder will save you a lot over time. Take a night class at a community college and let them teach you. I did way back ......