To much light or not enough light

[Mayooo]

This is the big question. How much light is too much light?

Currently I'm running a 31" bar with a 190w rating, and it's very bright. Along with four 4" bars on each corner of my roof rack. 16w each. Now with the building of my front bumper I'm now going to be able to add light bars to the bumper.

While searching for light bars. I came across the new single row 10w LEDs. Bingo! I said, That's the answer to my bumper. Run them since they have a very low profile AND with using 10w LEDs, they produce a heck of a lot more light than double row bars the same length. Of corse, with this discovery come the thoughts and ideas that run thru XJ owners like a disease.

What else can I do with these slimmer bars. Well I can replace my 31" bar with two 44" bars stacked.. Hmmm!?!?!?...
With this thought comes the BIG QUESTION! How much is too much!
We can't just settle for average right! BECAUSE WE'RE XJ OWNERS...
Time to redo my light system. Ya'll know what I'm running now and here is the order for my new setup.
Keep up with the wattage on this list it will be addressed shortly

Two 44" single row bars 260w each
Two 15" single row bars 80w each
Two 5" single row bars 20w each
Ten 4" double row bars 16w each
Two 7" double row bars 36w each
Total watts with all running 952w

Phew! But for this post We will only focus on the light, forward of the vehicle. The 44's, 15's, 5's, and four of the 4". The rest is for rear lighting and side lighting.
So let's add up the froward light.
And we get 784watts of forward lighting.. That's a lot considering that my current set up is 190watts forward power and that lights up the front VERY well! But is it too much light. When does it come to a point that it becomes over kill. Yes it's a big WOW factor but like I said we are XJ owners. And for powering everything, I've already have that covered. Bigger alt and duel batts.

[leaftye]

I'll be aiming for lots of light, but the quality of light is very important too. It might even be more important because a poorly chosen light can make everything else less effective.

I'm still debating on which direction to go, but I'll probably get some lights with Cree XT-E emitters because I can upgrade them to Cree XP-L emitters that are far more efficient and capable of handling even more power to increase output much further. It also means I can choose my tint and CRI.

[4.3LXJ]

Tint? what options are available?

[Philxj4L]

At present, I have a 40" x 180w single row on the roof, a 30" x 150w ultra slim single row on the hood, (the bar height is only 1") a 20" x 120w double row on the A bar, LED H4 LED headlights. There's a certain amount of ballance on the appearance front to that setup. All Of the above are Cree, 55.500 lumens, this will go up to 57.5K when the new Cree H4s arrive, or the equivalent of a small supernova going off when you flick the switch. The 3 bars are on a single switch with a 40A fuse, this will be swapped for a 50A trip switch, just to save the hassle of changing a fuse, if it pops.
Personally, I don't think I NEED what's there, but you can never have too many lumens. i think I've reached the point where you wouldn't notice the difference if any more were added. :)

These where taken same time/same conditions, no editing or filters.
http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a519/Philxj4L/C119D2DC-6E3E-41AC-B98C-F4BDD41DD182_zpsceburpx4.jpg (http://s1281.photobucket.com/user/Philxj4L/media/C119D2DC-6E3E-41AC-B98C-F4BDD41DD182_zpsceburpx4.jpg.html)

[xj-jake]

Okay lets get real technical here. The 2 bars I have on my Jeep are capable of running 24 volts and this has been running through my little noggin for a few weeks. I've been thinking about doing a dual battery setup on mine but is there a way to run your (and mine) light bars 24 volts and yet still be able to charge both batteries without having to manually flip a lever or switch.

[4.3LXJ]

Yes there is, but I don't know how to do it. Years ago before Warn made electric winches, you could get surplus 24V aircraft bomb door motors and make a winch. I have seen the solenoids on the rack but never how they were hooked up. We had one of those on Hum Wee running on a 12V system, but not all the wiring was there.

[XJ Wheeler]

Personally I think of it as different perimeters that need more light. Front, side, undercarriage, and rear.

The different regions require different types of lights in my opinion.

For the front I believe you need both a wide (fog) type light for seeing around corners and directly in front of you, as well as a spot type light for those long range desires.

The side you really only need a wide light for this. Something you could camp with or look out next to the jeep when traversing rough terrain at night.

Now the rear you mostly really only need a wide pattern but there may be times when a long range light would come in handy but rarely I would think.

My rig. For the front I want a 50" spot lightbar on top, one or two smaller fog led bars in the bumper. A set of driving lights to run with the headlights on the street. And finally a set of spot hid lights on the a-pillars. I have my set up almost as i want it but a few changes to be made. I like an array of different types of lights. To test and to offer different perspectives for certain conditions.

But to answer your original question I think its whatever you want or need. Three 50" bars on top... not my choice but would put out a lot of light and if you want that by all means its your jeep. Just keep power output in mind and be respectful to your electrical system. :D

[Mayooo]

I completely agree with that.. Currently I can light up 360* around me.. And that is a must for me.

[Philxj4L]

Okay lets get real technical here. The 2 bars I have on my Jeep are capable of running 24 volts and this has been running through my little noggin for a few weeks. I've been thinking about doing a dual battery setup on mine but is there a way to run your (and mine) light bars 24 volts and yet still be able to charge both batteries without having to manually flip a lever or switch.

I see the thinking, but I'll need to get a bit more technical. The idea is sound based on the numbers, but, the numbers are a bit misleading on this one.
While the operating voltage of 9 - 24v is valid, it's the drivers dictate how much power is delivered to the luminous flux (chip) Lightbars will produce the same amount of light using 9v as it will by feeding 24v !
This is with a normal 9v Duracell battery
http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a519/Philxj4L/01A7190C-CEDE-4BAE-AE10-94055F9084A0_zps85nprf2z.jpg (http://s1281.photobucket.com/user/Philxj4L/media/01A7190C-CEDE-4BAE-AE10-94055F9084A0_zps85nprf2z.jpg.html)
on some listings for bars you'll se a theoretical lumens and actual lumens figures, the higher, theoretical lumens figure is the output if the drivers where to deliver 100% of the available power, they don't. Drivers are set to deliver 90% of available power, specifically to reduce strain on the chips, giving the 30 - 50,000 hours lifespan, and that's continuous use.
So the short answer is, you CAN suply your bars 24v, it won't make them any brighter. :)
Forgot to mention, the 3 bars I'm running are all spot/flood combos, so give the required spread without the need for separate units.

[leaftye]

Tint? what options are available?

I don't know that there are any options within a model of a light. The tint is usually listed in the specs, but some say that the tint is usually much higher/colder than the specs say.

If you get a bar with Cree emitters, you might be able to swap in your own emitters with a wide range of tint, CRI and bin. A higher bin can get you more lumens and less heat for the same amount of power. Then you get into the second generation of emitters, from example the XP-E to XP-E2, XM-L to XM-L2, and XP-G to XP-G2. Upgrading emitters is an expensive way to increase output though, and mostly likely adding additional lights would be a more cost effective choice.

That said, I bought a light bar that allegedly has Cree emitters inside. I'll see if the emitters can be upgraded, and if so, I'll swap a few. Swapping emitters would only take advantage of higher efficiency, which could greatly increase output, but much bigger gains would be possible if the mcpcb could be swapped and the driver could be resistor-modded to increase current. The probably with that is all the light bar teardowns I've seen use a single pcb for all the emitters and drivers, which makes sense for keeping assembly costs down. As a modder, what I'd like to see if a separate driver, and separate mcpcb's for each emitter, which is good for modding because I could simply desolder and replace individual mcpcb's. If everything is integrated on a single pcb, I would have to cut out the section of pcb to fit in my own mcpcb. The reason I want to swap in my own mcpcb is because the ones I use have much better thermal transfer, which allows the emitter to operate more efficiently and at higher currents.

[denverd1]

Okay lets get real technical here. The 2 bars I have on my Jeep are capable of running 24 volts and this has been running through my little noggin for a few weeks. I've been thinking about doing a dual battery setup on mine but is there a way to run your (and mine) light bars 24 volts and yet still be able to charge both batteries without having to manually flip a lever or switch.
Boys if you want 24 volt action, it's easy. You gotta wire 2 Batts together. Marine cats do it all the time for big thrust trolling motors. Put the + on one to the - of one batt to the other. ground it good . Running them in series. Easy peasy japanesy.

[xjzaped]

24V won't make a difference in this application.

We know Power is the resultant of voltage multiplied by current. If the bar is rated at such a wide voltage range, it's got an internal regulator (unlike bulbs). That means it can only pull its set power load. So you were to upgrade from a 12V system to a 24V system, your just gonna reduce the pulled current by half (so you could get away with lesser gauge wire).

Another example, most modern diesel 3/4 ton pickups have dual 12V batteries. On average a Diesel engine needs about 1000 amps to crank. So we'll call that 12kW. Average battery provides around 800 A. So if you run on a 24V system, you only need 500A to crank the motor.






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[denverd1]

you can also charge your 12 volt batts in this situation, ONLY when the 24v draws are off. ans sorry, you either need a smart Isolator/combiner for charging. Or flip a switch. you will have to run dedicated 12v charging wires to each battery (only when separated) and flip a switch to turn separate and start charging them.

Not sure this will application will work for lights, but it can be done

[xjzaped]

you can also charge your 12 volt batts in this situation, ONLY when the 24v draws are off. ans sorry, you either need a smart Isolator/combiner for charging. Or flip a switch. you will have to run dedicated 12v charging wires to each battery (only when separated) and flip a switch to turn separate and start charging them.

Not sure this will application will work for lights, but it can be done

Or maybe an additional 24V alternator wired just to the lights (downside is when you kill the engine the lights will turn off).

[denverd1]

Or maybe an additional 24V alternator wired just to the lights (downside is when you kill the engine the lights will turn off).

pretty sure you'll smoke an alternator (at least the regulator) if its not connected to a battery that reaches full charge. just a hunch, not 100% sure....

[OrangeXJ]

IMHO I think you can have too much light. Ok let me re phrase that. Light is good at night. But with all the new LED lights one has to be responsable with them. On a recient wheelin trip I did some rare night wheelin I was met several times head on with people that had massive amount's of LED lights and was blinded to the point where I had to stop because I was blinded. I'm not con LED lights I just replaced my old school KC light's with LED's.

[XJ Wheeler]

IMHO I think you can have too much light. Ok let me re phrase that. Light is good at night. But with all the new LED lights one has to be responsable with them. On a recient wheelin trip I did some rare night wheelin I was met several times head on with people that had massive amount's of LED lights and was blinded to the point where I had to stop because I was blinded. I'm not con LED lights I just replaced my old school KC light's with LED's.

Yes! I love the new LED technology but no matter the setting, be respectful of others. Just because you're on the trail doesn't mean its not blinding.

Just the other day I saw a jk parking that had a set of small "cube" LED lights and being pointed directly at me I thought it a good time to take an example pic. On the left you can see just how bright even these small light are. Imagine a 12", 20", 50" whatever. I see trucks, and a good bit of jeeps running them on road.

6892

[xjzaped]

I'll also ad, I run my lights down the road. However, I stay mostly legal for my state. I just put my KC Rally series on my Trailblazer (they were originally on my XJ's roof rack, then were commandeered for use on my pickup). I ran a 3 post LED rocker but instead of the hot post being tied into the battery, it was tied into the high beam wire. When the switch was in the on position, the KC's would only come on with the high beams. Great for traveling down desolate West Texas and New Mexico roads in the middle of the night. Usually would freeze deer in the road about a mile out (assuming you had that much straight away).

When I finally got my bar on my XJ setup, I did the same setup. Pulled the old Daylighters that were on the bumper that the previous owner had wired are re-did it (it was just a case of removing the hot wire he tied in from the ignition wire to a wire tapped off the high beams).

Manually flipping switches to be courteous to others can be a bit of a pain…especially when trying to kill high beams, auxiliaries and other lights in the middle of a turn on a pass (try shifting in the middle of that too).

I've got an acquaintance who put some of those little cubes on his pickup and wired them into his low beams…then he went and put green filters on them (PD is okay with the filters, county and state it's a no-no though) and its just kinda…dumb to be completely honest.

I've found off roading, a small flood is plenty for the front, having some rear lights is nice too. Biggest practical help are wheel well lights…

[Outlaw star]

I see the light! Oh god it burns! Lol

[Carves]

This is the big question. How much light is too much light?

Currently I'm running a 31" bar with a 190w rating, and it's very bright. Along with four 4" bars on each corner of my roof rack. 16w each. Now with the building of my front bumper I'm now going to be able to add light bars to the bumper.

While searching for light bars. I came across the new single row 10w LEDs. Bingo! I said, That's the answer to my bumper. Run them since they have a very low profile AND with using 10w LEDs, they produce a heck of a lot more light than double row bars the same length. Of corse, with this discovery come the thoughts and ideas that run thru XJ owners like a disease.

What else can I do with these slimmer bars. Well I can replace my 31" bar with two 44" bars stacked.. Hmmm!?!?!?...
With this thought comes the BIG QUESTION! How much is too much!
We can't just settle for average right! BECAUSE WE'RE XJ OWNERS...
Time to redo my light system. Ya'll know what I'm running now and here is the order for my new setup.
Keep up with the wattage on this list it will be addressed shortly

Two 44" single row bars 260w each
Two 15" single row bars 80w each
Two 5" single row bars 20w each
Ten 4" double row bars 16w each
Two 7" double row bars 36w each
Total watts with all running 952w

Phew! But for this post We will only focus on the light, forward of the vehicle. The 44's, 15's, 5's, and four of the 4". The rest is for rear lighting and side lighting.
So let's add up the froward light.
And we get 784watts of forward lighting.. That's a lot considering that my current set up is 190watts forward power and that lights up the front VERY well! But is it too much light. When does it come to a point that it becomes over kill. Yes it's a big WOW factor but like I said we are XJ owners. And for powering everything, I've already have that covered. Bigger alt and duel batts.


How much is too much ???

That would be when the power requirements outweigh the visibility benefits .. ;);)


Lots of times I've seen where a vehicle with just a coupla lights fitted, has more, useable/practical/beneficial, lighting,

... than a vehicle that looks like a mobile Hella display & sales trolley.


Over the years I've constantly found that despite all the wattage claims/lense designs etc., stories by the manufacturers ... Most of it doesn't mean squat until I've fitted them and go for a test drive.


Match your lighting to your driving requirements and situations.

Having a gazillion watts of lighting ... is fairly pointless - if traffic, weather and road conditions ... regularly prohibit you from using them.

[autotech98]

But it looks so cool!!:cool:

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I547

[Mudderoy]

Yes! I love the new LED technology but no matter the setting, be respectful of others. Just because you're on the trail doesn't mean its not blinding.

Just the other day I saw a jk parking that had a set of small "cube" LED lights and being pointed directly at me I thought it a good time to take an example pic. On the left you can see just how bright even these small light are. Imagine a 12", 20", 50" whatever. I see trucks, and a good bit of jeeps running them on road.

6892

I run my two 7" CREE lights as "driving" lights. They come on first, then the running lights, then the headlights as it gets darker out.

I did see two lifted full sized trucks running their over head 40"+ LED bars just driving down the road. I hit my other two switches to turn on the 20" and the 44" in response. Sadly the guy in front of me pulled over and had his driver's license out as I made my way around him. It wasn't for you dude!

[Mudderoy]

I'll also ad, I run my lights down the road. However, I stay mostly legal for my state. I just put my KC Rally series on my Trailblazer (they were originally on my XJ's roof rack, then were commandeered for use on my pickup). I ran a 3 post LED rocker but instead of the hot post being tied into the battery, it was tied into the high beam wire. When the switch was in the on position, the KC's would only come on with the high beams. Great for traveling down desolate West Texas and New Mexico roads in the middle of the night. Usually would freeze deer in the road about a mile out (assuming you had that much straight away).

When I finally got my bar on my XJ setup, I did the same setup. Pulled the old Daylighters that were on the bumper that the previous owner had wired are re-did it (it was just a case of removing the hot wire he tied in from the ignition wire to a wire tapped off the high beams).

Manually flipping switches to be courteous to others can be a bit of a pain…especially when trying to kill high beams, auxiliaries and other lights in the middle of a turn on a pass (try shifting in the middle of that too).

I've got an acquaintance who put some of those little cubes on his pickup and wired them into his low beams…then he went and put green filters on them (PD is okay with the filters, county and state it's a no-no though) and its just kinda…dumb to be completely honest.

I've found off roading, a small flood is plenty for the front, having some rear lights is nice too. Biggest practical help are wheel well lights…

I have yet to do it but my plan is to splice into the hot on the high beams and run it to a relay, and additional switch on the panel when flipped will allow all the LED bars to be controlled by the brights selector on the column. If the air horn ever gets installed I'll wire it in as well, the but button will be labeled "Shock and Awe" ;)

[Carves]

But it looks so cool!!:cool:

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I547


:D

Yes ... there is always that factor to consider as well .. ;);)

[4.3LXJ]

:D

Yes ... there is always that factor to consider as well .. ;);)

Why is it that Jeeps look cool, but chicks look hot? :keegirl:

[bluedragon436]

That's the biggest thing I think about and worry about... is what is too much to have light wise.. The biggest thing for me is not having too much to the point it looks stupid mainly when you're not using it... I def want to have good lighting for trail use, and hopefully one day run SAR (Search&Rescue) when I get back to SC.. but don't want it to be excessive looking just sitting.. especially for having to find more ways to secure them so they don't get stolen.. cause I def don't got the money to spare to replace them...

[Mayooo]

Now this is a little too much... Ha!
Bars in the bumper, grill and mirrors. Oh and the obvious overhead.

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii559/die2end/1E827092-5E8C-43D8-8B26-37A909B17083_zpsfmlku9q8.jpg

[Brasscatz]

Reminds me of the greeting chopper in Independence Day :D