Welcome packmule1911!!!

[BlueXJ]

Hi packmule1911, :welcome: to the :xjtalk: forum!

We would love to know more about you and your Jeep. How you found us, etc...

Be sure and check out our XJ TALK SHOW! (http://podcasts.xjtalk.com) It\'s about Cherokees! It\'s like a radio talk show, but from the Internet.

Check out our sister sites, http://www.WranglerTalk.com/ and http://www.di-dah-dit.com/

[packmule1911]

My first Jeep was acquired a couple weeks ago in a trade. I gave up an Acura MDX because it was too plush, to expensive to drive and maintain, and not what I really wanted anyway. I now have a 2001 Cherokee Limited 4WD. I found out about XJTalk on the iTunes store.

I'd like to say all is well, but I actually learned that both differentials are in bad shape: bits of metal, rotational noise from the front, and a lesson in the learning about how I should have a more through pre-trade inspection.

Regardless, I still love the Jeep, and have already fulfilled one of my goals in the trade by having a car that easier to work on (wheel bearings, sway bar bushings), and cheaper. I'm going the forum to learn more, have fun, and hopefully figure out the most economical way to deal with the diffs since things are lean.

[4.3LXJ]

Welcome Bill. Sorry to hear about the trouble, but Jeeps are more fun anyway.

[packmule1911]

Thanks. I agree. Much more fun. Wish it wasn't starting out this way, but it's my fault for being hasty. Should have had it checked. It will be worth it I think. Maybe I can find quality used assemblies.

[4.3LXJ]

Lots of used stuff around at pick and pulls that can be fairly cheap. Why don't you start a thread and we can answer some questions for you

[XJ Wheeler]

Welcome to the site Bill. Hope you can get a set of axles at the junkyard or womewhere cheap. Sucks they are bad but a good chance to upgrade. Your '01 will have a low pinion front axle, which isn't not ideal if lifting is in its plans. So if you do choose to go with a new front axle the best options are from a '95-99 xj. They are high pinion, no cad (vacuum disconnect), and have the stronger 297 ujoints. And for the rear a '97-'01 8.25 will be just about the best bolt in option. You might could get a dana 44 from a '87-89 but they're harder to find and usually people want more money for them. If you can weld and fabricate some you could go with an explorer 8.8.

And if you don't care about modifying or upgrading any will do. Just be sure to grab the driveshafts if they are different than your stock axles.

Put up some pics of the jeep when you can. ;)

[packmule1911]

Thanks.
I'm looking at the options now between having what's there rebuilt, or going with salvage parts. If I even lift the vehicle, it likely wouldn't be much. I can't afford serious modifications now or for a good while, but if I can replace with a high pinion version that makes sense to me.
I have been looking for a 8.25, and they seem to be cheaper than the Dana.
It is a good sign I am told that the pinion seals are not leaking; that this indicates the pinions are fine, but it's all got to come apart anyway.

[XJ Wheeler]

Thanks.
I'm looking at the options now between having what's there rebuilt, or going with salvage parts. If I even lift the vehicle, it likely wouldn't be much. I can't afford serious modifications now or for a good while, but if I can replace with a high pinion version that makes sense to me.
I have been looking for a 8.25, and they seem to be cheaper than the Dana.
It is a good sign I am told that the pinion seals are not leaking; that this indicates the pinions are fine, but it's all got to come apart anyway.

I hear ya. The cheaper option will most likely be the salvage route. If your junkyards are like the ones here you can pick up an axle for $200-250 and try to score them on a half off weekend. Call your local yard and see if/when they have those deals. I bought a zj axle for right at $100 so i could use the disc brakes at half off.

Sent via messenger pigeon - i talk, he types.

[packmule1911]

No fronts around. Found a couple of 8.25's with less than 90k on them for $250 each for the rear.

I can also get a 4x4 gearing specialty shop here to do a partial rebuild (bearings) of both for $850 with all new stuff, and a three year warranty.

Maybe rebuild the front since I can't find a salvage version, and buy a salvage rear. Still thinking.

[4.3LXJ]

If you get a salvage 8.25, make sure they are from 97 and up. They have larger axle shafts

[packmule1911]

Those I found are from '99's.

[4.3LXJ]

Go for it

[XJ Wheeler]

Sounds good. Also make sure the gearing suits your plan for the front. I.e. same gear you want for the front.

[packmule1911]

Sort of happy day. This is my first Jeep. I've worked on everything I've owned previously, to some degree, depending on specialty tools and such, but this vehicle is still being learned; just starting actually.

So, I learned that I already have a Chrysler 8.25, and that there is a little bit of bearing noise in the back end, but nothing to worry about now.

What was confirmed this morning by some gear specialists is that 95% of the crud I'm hearing is coming from the front carrier bearings. They're giving me a seemingly good price to fix it all up and I'll wait on the back.

Thanks All for helping me sort through this.

[4.3LXJ]

It is getting better Bill

[bluedragon436]

:welcome: to :xjtalk1: from Delaware!!

I'd say get the fluid changed out in the rear diff that way if there isn't much damage you can stop any more from occurring, hopefully keeping the rear in good shape till you are able to get it taken care of..

[XJ Wheeler]

Sort of happy day. This is my first Jeep. I've worked on everything I've owned previously, to some degree, depending on specialty tools and such, but this vehicle is still being learned; just starting actually.

So, I learned that I already have a Chrysler 8.25, and that there is a little bit of bearing noise in the back end, but nothing to worry about now.

What was confirmed this morning by some gear specialists is that 95% of the crud I'm hearing is coming from the front carrier bearings. They're giving me a seemingly good price to fix it all up and I'll wait on the back.

Thanks All for helping me sort through this.

Glad to hear it! If its the wheel bearings in the rear they're pretty easy to change out.

Sent via messenger pigeon - i talk, he types.

[runnerswife]

Welcome to the awesome forum

[denverd1]

hmmm.... I was wondering why do axle swap when you have good bones there. rebuild em.

whats your favorite 1911? guess we should start a separate thread for guns....

[XJ Wheeler]

hmmm.... I was wondering why do axle swap when you have good bones there. rebuild em.

whats your favorite 1911? guess we should start a separate thread for guns....

Cost mainly. If he needed full rebuilds it would be $$$. Even that $850 he was quoted for partial rebuilds is far more than some jy axles. $4-500 for both here and that's not even half off weekend. ;)

Sent via messenger pigeon - i talk, he types.

[packmule1911]

whats your favorite 1911? guess we should start a separate thread for guns....

My favorites are the ones I've refurbished from some horribly abused states.

The first was a Springfield Armory Mil-Spec. I'm pretty sure it had been spray painted. It wouldn't even cycle. New guts, some frame and parts blending, new hot blue finish and it turned out great.

The most recent was a 1918 Colt frame that was re-armored with an Ithaca WWII slide. Similar deal, rusted, paint, pits, and poorly fit parts.

Fixing stuff people have "ruined" or given up on is fulling to me, to a point.

[packmule1911]

Cost mainly. If he needed full rebuilds it would be $$$. Even that $850 he was quoted for partial rebuilds is far more than some jy axles. $4-500 for both here and that's not even half off weekend. ;)

Well, I checked a place that specializes in gears, and love Jeep's. $850 for both. Then talked to a 4x4 parts place that does work as well (big online presence and very well known); same deal at around $850 but warned that it would be more if I needed a gear. Then checked with the two local Jeep dealerships. One was along the same lines, and the other was twice the money.

This is my daily driver, and I've not done axle's before, so I'm not taking it on myself. I also don't have any car friends around who can help, so I'll get it done by someone else, get a warranty on the work, and forget about it.

Definitely sticking with the 8.25 rear that's there now, and go for a good fluid change and save up for it. First will be the front.

BTW, fluids (oil, brake, PS, ATF, gear oil)? What do you folks like to use vs. what's all hype?

Thanks for the great welcome!

[XJ Wheeler]

Well, I checked a place that specializes in gears, and love Jeep's. $850 for both. Then talked to a 4x4 parts place that does work as well (big online presence and very well known); same deal at around $850 but warned that it would be more if I needed a gear. Then checked with the two local Jeep dealerships. One was along the same lines, and the other was twice the money.

This is my daily driver, and I've not done axle's before, so I'm not taking it on myself. I also don't have any car friends around who can help, so I'll get it done by someone else, get a warranty on the work, and forget about it.

Definitely sticking with the 8.25 rear that's there now, and go for a good fluid change and save up for it. First will be the front.

BTW, fluids (oil, brake, PS, ATF, gear oil)? What do you folks like to use vs. what's all hype?

Thanks for the great welcome!

I can definitely understand not wanting to mess something up. But may i add another note of encouragement. Whether for this circumstance or future problems/mods. You can learn so much taking on things yourself. Now, I don't mean go out into the garage now and start ripping things apart but do plenty of research and ask around places like here. There's plenty of people willing to help you out, at least on here. And the amount you can save doing things yourself comes in handy. Sometimes a job requires a special tool, say a welder. Say you need to fix a crack in your frame. Taking it somewhere they may charge you $3-500. Whereas you could get a Hobart 140 which can handle most anything a home mechanic/fabricator would need for $500 and do it yourself. Now you have a welder for any jobs that require it for the future and now can learn a skill. So the next $500 welding fix you need is free, thus saving $500.

Just something to think about. Understandably, some people can't do their own work. Space, time, ability can all get in the way of that. I've sure had my obstructions too. Do what you have to, and I hope it goes well and you don't need those gears. ;)


On the fluids I run Castrol 10w30 oil in the summer and 5w30 winter with a k&n oil filter. For the atf if you have the aw4 trans only use Dexron III, Atf-4 is known to cause issues with it. And the same atf will work for the t-case. I buy (two) four quart jugs and that has enough for a pan drop on the trans and a drain and fill on the t-case. Axle gear oil I use 75w-90 front and rear. If you tow some or have hills to climb go for the 75w-140 in the rear. Brake fluid will be any Dot 3 brake fluid. Power steering fluid is pretty generalized. But I do avoid at all cost anything with "stop leak". My dictionary for "stop leak" says refer to "clog it up more than Houston traffic then replace part". :p

[packmule1911]

Thanks again, All, for the encouragement.

Doing your own work:

Love to. I like to think sometimes that it's an "in the blood" thing. My Grandfather ran his own shop in Hubbell NE. Graham Garage, Phone 4. He worked on just about anything with a motor, and I have several of his old Plomb tools. He taught my Dad some stuff, who then taught me, and much of what I've learned has been motivated by various causes of poverty (college, newlywed, parent, unemployed, etc). I like fixing things, and I struggle with the temptation to "fix" many things that aren't yet broken. In the case of the axle's, all things considered, I need to have someone else do it.

All things considered:
This Jeep took the place of an incredibly clean '03 Acura MDX. The MDX was a lovely car that was bought new by my mother-in-law, who drove it very little, and had every service done on schedule and by the dealer she bought it from. Huge blessing to us to have been able to buy it and own it for a year and change. The thing is, I didn't really want it. I felt a bit obligated to buy it when it was offered. I traded it for the Jeep, and all taxes and fees paid by the dealer. The dealer get a good deal in terms of having a higher ROI opportunity with the Acura than the Jeep, but I got a vehicle that:
1. I wanted.
2. I could work on more myself.
3. Has lower cost parts.
4. Is better for my 15 year old son to drive.
5. Provides more overall practical transportation.

However, my wife misses the Acura. She and I thought, talked, and prayed about the change, and there is not regret exactly, but the Acura sure was comfortable, speedy, and refined.

So, when I need to dump $1k into the Jeep I just traded the Acura for, it doesn't help anyone get used to the change. That said, the Acura is going to need work eventually, and it was still wiser to have car that costs significantly less to operate (93 octane only), maintain, and fix than an SUV sports car.

My apologies if that is too much information, but this is a Jeep forum, and this is a story of a fellow getting his first Jeep. Seemed OK to tell it.

[packmule1911]

Glad to hear it! If its the wheel bearings in the rear they're pretty easy to change out.

I was told the opposite. Through the process of diagnosing and fixing the front end noise, I replaced both of the front wheel bear hub assemblies. That was easy, but unfortunately didn't fix the problem. I was told that the rear is much harder, but I haven't actually looked at the Hayes or Chilton text on it.

Admittedly, I'm still learning my Jeep anatomy and terminology.

[denverd1]

Cost mainly. If he needed full rebuilds it would be $$$. Even that $850 he was quoted for partial rebuilds is far more than some jy axles. $4-500 for both here and that's not even half off weekend. ;)

Sent via messenger pigeon - i talk, he types.

gotcha. I'd be a little hesitant to stick some JY crap under my rig without going through it a bit. thats quite a bit cheaper than I've found around here. good to know.

[packmule1911]

I'd be a little hesitant to stick some JY crap under my rig without going through it a bit.

I found an 8.25 axle assembly in the right ratio for $100 at a JY down the street. I have given thought to going ahead and buying it, dissecting it, and having a spare once I went through the learning experience.

[XJ Wheeler]

Thanks again, All, for the encouragement.

Doing your own work:

Love to. I like to think sometimes that it's an "in the blood" thing. My Grandfather ran his own shop in Hubbell NE. Graham Garage, Phone 4. He worked on just about anything with a motor, and I have several of his old Plomb tools. He taught my Dad some stuff, who then taught me, and much of what I've learned has been motivated by various causes of poverty (college, newlywed, parent, unemployed, etc). I like fixing things, and I struggle with the temptation to "fix" many things that aren't yet broken. In the case of the axle's, all things considered, I need to have someone else do it.

All things considered:
This Jeep took the place of an incredibly clean '03 Acura MDX. The MDX was a lovely car that was bought new by my mother-in-law, who drove it very little, and had every service done on schedule and by the dealer she bought it from. Huge blessing to us to have been able to buy it and own it for a year and change. The thing is, I didn't really want it. I felt a bit obligated to buy it when it was offered. I traded it for the Jeep, and all taxes and fees paid by the dealer. The dealer get a good deal in terms of having a higher ROI opportunity with the Acura than the Jeep, but I got a vehicle that:
1. I wanted.
2. I could work on more myself.
3. Has lower cost parts.
4. Is better for my 15 year old son to drive.
5. Provides more overall practical transportation.

However, my wife misses the Acura. She and I thought, talked, and prayed about the change, and there is not regret exactly, but the Acura sure was comfortable, speedy, and refined.

So, when I need to dump $1k into the Jeep I just traded the Acura for, it doesn't help anyone get used to the change. That said, the Acura is going to need work eventually, and it was still wiser to have car that costs significantly less to operate (93 octane only), maintain, and fix than an SUV sports car.

My apologies if that is too much information, but this is a Jeep forum, and this is a story of a fellow getting his first Jeep. Seemed OK to tell it.

Perfectly fine to put your story up. You can even start a build thread if you want, I have one.

But I think you made the right choice in getting a Cherokee if you want something easy to work on and cheap. Junkyards have kinda opened my eyes a couple years ago to the extent of the truth to that statement. A couple weeks ago I went to a local one and pulled an intake manifold and even though all the junk you have to remove on a 4.0 to get it off it was out in under an hour. And with all the ones in the yards you will have your pick for a while.


I was told the opposite. Through the process of diagnosing and fixing the front end noise, I replaced both of the front wheel bear hub assemblies. That was easy, but unfortunately didn't fix the problem. I was told that the rear is much harder, but I haven't actually looked at the Hayes or Chilton text on it.

Admittedly, I'm still learning my Jeep anatomy and terminology.

Well, you should have basically the same axle as mine other than the spline count. And I just did mine for the first time a couple months ago. All it really takes is safely jack the rear up, remove the tires, remove the drums, remove the diff cover, collect and dispose of the oil, remove the cross pin bolt, and slide the cross pin out. Be careful no to let the spider gears fall out. Slide each axle in toward the center about 1/4" and pull the c-clips off the ends. Then slide the shafts out. Now, you need a bearing puller, sliding hammer, and bearing seating tool. All these can be had from Harbor Freight for just over $100. Its what I used to do mine so I know they work. And use the sliding hammer and appropriate bearing puller to slide the bearings and seals out. Then slip the new bearings in and seat them, as well as the seals. Installation reverse of removal and again careful with the spiders.

Bearing puller $30 (20% off if you have it)
http://www.harborfreight.com/rear-axle-bearing-puller-set-66380.html

Sliding Hammer $60 (again 20%)
http://www.harborfreight.com/heavy-duty-slide-hammer-and-puller-set-16-pc-60327.html

Bearing seating tool $35 (20%)
http://www.harborfreight.com/10-piece-bearing-race-and-seal-driver-set-95853.html

Timken bearings and seals $30 (through rockauto)

Gear oil $20

So for just about $170 you can do this job and will then have the tools to do the next one for only $50, versus having a shop do it for $???


gotcha. I'd be a little hesitant to stick some JY crap under my rig without going through it a bit. thats quite a bit cheaper than I've found around here. good to know.

Well, most of whats in the yard is just a few months after it was on the road. So what on the road could be just months away from the yard. Hard to understand but you get what I mean? And I gotta say I've seen several jeeps in better shape than mine and lots better than when I got it. :p