It's always sad when a 4.0L dies...

[Mudderoy]

Keep in mind I've had a tapping noise coming from my engine (really seemed to be lifter related) for the last two(?) months.

On my way home from work Friday the 4.0L with about 25K miles on it quit.

Just before it died I was doing about 70 mph on the freeway. It started making a strange noise, not loud, but wouldn't generate any power. I tried giving it a little gas and it wouldn't go any faster than 50 mph.

After a few seconds I decided to give it more than a little gas, there was a louder noise followed by a lot of white smoke coming billowing out the back. So much so that it nearly wrapped around the top of the Jeep. The engine promptly died.

I was nearing my exit so I hit the flashers and made my way off the freeway and (strangely enough) into the main driveway of Allen Samuels Chrysler Jeep, and came to a rest just in front of a crowd of 2014 (maybe 2015) Jeep Cherokees.

No the irony didn't escape me. :P

I tried starting the engine (I didn't hold out much hope) and the engine sounded like it had zero compression on any of the cylinders.

I got out to see if there was a big hole in my block. Nothing. No coolant no oil, it didn't even smell or feel hot.

With the hood up I tried starting the engine. Yep, it's turning I can see the mechanical fan moving.

I checked the oil via the stick and it looked like there was about 3 times the amount of oil on the stick than their should be. It didn't look milky it just looked like oil with maybe the yellowish of coolant.

Neither radiator hose had any coolant in it, and the radiator coolant level wasn't at the cap.

I called AAA and they brought a flat bed and took my broke a$$ home.

After I got it home I tried starting it again, there was a loud noise like the flex plate and starter didn't like each other. After that only the starter would turn, like it wasn't making contact with anything.

I've spent most of the day working angles to see how I can have enough vehicles for everyone to get where then need to go.

[cantab27]

drop the sump and see what falls out with the oil......tuff brake mate tis not a old engine

[XJ Wheeler]

Ah man! Sorry to hear this happened tony. Sucks when things go this wrong, especially with fairly new parts. Hope its not too bad and she's back up and running soon.

Sent via messenger pigeon - i talk, he types.

[Pookapotamus]

Only thing you can do is open it up and start hunting for the problem, sad to hear tony, good luck!

[4.3LXJ]

Oh man, sorry to hear that. It is especially bad on a low miles engine

[OldFaurt]

Keep in mind I've had a tapping noise coming from my engine (really seemed to be lifter related) for the last two(?) months.

On my way home from work Friday the 4.0L with about 25K miles on it quit.

Just before it died I was doing about 70 mph on the freeway. It started making a strange noise, not loud, but wouldn't generate any power. I tried giving it a little gas and it wouldn't go any faster than 50 mph.

After a few seconds I decided to give it more than a little gas, there was a louder noise followed by a lot of white smoke coming billowing out the back. So much so that it nearly wrapped around the top of the Jeep. The engine promptly died.

I was nearing my exit so I hit the flashers and made my way off the freeway and (strangely enough) into the main driveway of Allen Samuels Chrysler Jeep, and came to a rest just in front of a crowd of 2014 (maybe 2015) Jeep Cherokees.

No the irony didn't escape me. :P

I tried starting the engine (I didn't hold out much hope) and the engine sounded like it had zero compression on any of the cylinders.

I got out to see if there was a big hole in my block. Nothing. No coolant no oil, it didn't even smell or feel hot.

With the hood up I tried starting the engine. Yep, it's turning I can see the mechanical fan moving.

I checked the oil via the stick and it looked like there was about 3 times the amount of oil on the stick than their should be. It didn't look milky it just looked like oil with maybe the yellowish of coolant.

Neither radiator hose had any coolant in it, and the radiator coolant level wasn't at the cap.

I called AAA and they brought a flat bed and took my broke a$$ home.

After I got it home I tried starting it again, there was a loud noise like the flex plate and starter didn't like each other. After that only the starter would turn, like it wasn't making contact with anything.

I've spent most of the day working angles to see how I can have enough vehicles for everyone to get where then need to go.

I live here in Katy too, If you need help, just ask!
Sounds like a cylinder wall cracked and filled the thing with coolant!
Like ingesting water, it froze up and broke flex plate. Just my thoughts!

Good Luck!

[OrangeXJ]

Sorry for your luck I know the feeling. If you are looking for a good engine go to Thunderbolt Engine and Transmission in Houston long block with 36mo/36 mile warrenty $1500 and you get up to $900 back for your core engine. Got one in the TJ and my sons XJ the warrenty has expired on both long ago no problems with either one of them.

[slvmart]

Sorry to hear about your loss.
If it only had 25K, was it a rebuild or was it a transplant from a donor ?

[autotech98]

That sucks man..hope you get it figured out.

[Mudderoy]

Sorry to hear about your loss.
If it only had 25K, was it a rebuild or was it a transplant from a donor ?

No it was a $2k plus rebuild. I think the only thing that wasn't new was the valve springs and the piston rods, I mean other than the block and the head.

[OldFaurt]

No it was a $2k plus rebuild. I think the only thing that wasn't new was the valve springs and the piston rods, I mean other than the block and the head.
If you got a short block you could probably reuse most of that rebuild.
Wow, my heart and good wishes go out to you!
I am sure we will all help you get back to good!

Have you dug into it yet?

[prcjeep]

Any updates Tony?

Tough to hear this happened to that rebuild.

[Mudderoy]

No updates, that'll come later. I'm focusing on a solution since this is my daily driver. We'll do the postmortem on it after we have a replacement engine in there. :rolleye0012:

Two considerations, a long block from Titan, or perhaps one of their stokers. I'm concerned about the PCM issues on a stroker though, just have to talk to them.

The other solution is to put the original engine back in, or get a running used replacement.

[prcjeep]

i feel ya on the immediate solution requirement do to DD status. So was Greg saying that Titan can get you a motor for 1500 and you send them your block and get up to 900 back for the core?

[Brasscatz]

That was thunderbolt Patrick. But might be a good option and have a warranty to boot.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

[prcjeep]

That was thunderbolt Patrick. But might be a good option and have a warranty to boot.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

that doesn't sound too shabby if that is the deal they have, final cost of motor with 36k/36m warranty starting at $600.

[prcjeep]

No updates, that'll come later. I'm focusing on a solution since this is my daily driver. We'll do the postmortem on it after we have a replacement engine in there. :rolleye0012:

Two considerations, a long block from Titan, or perhaps one of their stokers. I'm concerned about the PCM issues on a stroker though, just have to talk to them.

The other solution is to put the original engine back in, or get a running used replacement.

Is the motor in yours, my old original motor from Matt's? I think both of my old motors got rebuilt and installed IIRC.

[msmoorenburg]

Is the motor in yours, my old original motor from Matt's? I think both of my old motors got rebuilt and installed IIRC.

Patrick I have your original motor in my black jeep they other was way to far gone to be a core

[OrangeXJ]

No updates, that'll come later. I'm focusing on a solution since this is my daily driver. We'll do the postmortem on it after we have a replacement engine in there. :rolleye0012:

Two considerations, a long block from Titan, or perhaps one of their stokers. I'm concerned about the PCM issues on a stroker though, just have to talk to them.

The other solution is to put the original engine back in, or get a running used replacement.

Just curious why Titan instead of getting one local for a better price and no shipping if you pick it up? And I was wrong on the core refund it too is around $350. Hell they gave me $250 for mine with a hole in the block. All they wanted was the crank and head.

[Mudderoy]

That was thunderbolt Patrick. But might be a good option and have a warranty to boot.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

Titan is in Florida (if I recall) No core and $250 shipping.

Greg can correct me but I suspect the engine from Thunderbolt (local for Houston) is $1300 + $900 and you get the $900 back with a good core.

Titan's regular 4.0L has a 36 month warranty. Their high performance and strokers, have a 12 month warranty.

[Brasscatz]

Well Tony.... I have a wrangler for sale ;)

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

[denverd1]

damn that sucks. Good thing there are several reasonable options on the these motors.

I'd drain the oil/water mix soon if you want to salvage the lower bearings. put diesel in the case.

[Mudderoy]

So some good news...

6161

6162

This is the 4.0l Matt took out before installing the replacement engine. The original engine.

I think we're going to move forward to doing a lite rebuild of this engine and replace the failed one.

Then we can tear down the new one and see what to do next.

This engine had about 172k on it.

[Mudderoy]

Just curious why Titan instead of getting one local for a better price and no shipping if you pick it up? And I was wrong on the core refund it too is around $350. Hell they gave me $250 for mine with a hole in the block. All they wanted was the crank and head.

I didn't want to say anything bad about the place you choose and had good luck with, but I've heard bad things about Thunderbird for years and years. They may have changed...

[Mudderoy]

So lets play a game.

Mild rebuild of Jeep 4.0L 175(ish)k miles.

Hone the cylinders and re-ring (no ridge in cylinders)

head to shop for a full treatment

New melling oil pump

New timing gears and chain.

New rod bearings.

[OrangeXJ]

I didn't want to say anything bad about the place you choose and had good luck with, but I've heard bad things about Thunderbird for years and years. They may have changed...

Back when you and I were much younger (when we were in our 20's) they had a bad rap. They have been bought and sold many times over the years. I did research on them before I bought the 2 engines from them. At one time they were owned by Sears. They currently have an A+ rating with the BBB.

I'm just passing along info as to a place to get a engine quickly and at a good price with a warrenty.

Your plan to rebuild your old one is good.

[Mudderoy]

Back when you and I were much younger (when we were in our 20's) they had a bad rap. They have been bought and sold many times over the years. I did research on them before I bought the 2 engines from them. At one time they were owned by Sears. They currently have an A+ rating with the BBB.

I'm just passing along info as to a place to get a engine quickly and at a good price with a warrenty.

Your plan to rebuild your old one is good.

Ahhh that's good to know. Yeah it was back when that commercial with the blonde, in the catalytic and the white hat was new! :D

[abebehrmann]

Sorry for your loss Tony. Is it wrong that when I heard this my first thought was, "Oh boy, this should lead to some interesting conversations on the podcast" ?

[denverd1]

So lets play a game.

Mild rebuild of Jeep 4.0L 175(ish)k miles.

Hone the cylinders and re-ring (no ridge in cylinders)

head to shop for a full treatment

New melling oil pump

New timing gears and chain.

New rod bearings.

I love games. Not sure if we're supposed to pick this or another option?
rebuild should be easy on that one.

[Mudderoy]

Sorry for your loss Tony. Is it wrong that when I heard this my first thought was, "Oh boy, this should lead to some interesting conversations on the podcast" ?

lol everyone finds a tragedy interesting! :D It's going to be a big unknown until that engine comes apart.

[Mudderoy]

I love games. Not sure if we're supposed to pick this or another option?
rebuild should be easy on that one.

Sorry it wasn't clear. What should I replace for the mild rebuild on the old, original 4.0? It won't be a full rebuild, trying to get the Jeep back on the road as we were already short of vehicles. Longer term solution may be coming down the road.

[denverd1]

Sorry it wasn't clear. What should I replace for the mild rebuild on the old, original 4.0? It won't be a full rebuild, trying to get the Jeep back on the road as we were already short of vehicles. Longer term solution may be coming down the road.

I'd agree with everything you listed

[07Negative]

Sorry to hear about the motor, Tony. And no warranty on the rebuild that is now broken?
If you want a reliable 4.0. I wouldn't do a stroker. If anything 5.3L Vortec :) Mucho work and money though.
What was wrong with the low mileage original motor? 172K miles is the break in period.
I've also read that the ATK rebuilds are pretty darn good also.

[Mudderoy]

Sorry to hear about the motor, Tony. And no warranty on the rebuild that is now broken?
If you want a reliable 4.0. I wouldn't do a stroker. If anything 5.3L Vortec :) Mucho work and money though.
What was wrong with the low mileage original motor? 172K miles is the break in period.
I've also read that the ATK rebuilds are pretty darn good also.

I went through multiple years of running hot at highway speeds, then I was getting an occasional funny noise and loss of power.

The new engine had the same over heating problem, not the motor. I had a loss of power turned out to be a bad catalytic converter. So I think I found both problems AFTER replacing the original engine.

[OldFaurt]

lol everyone finds a tragedy interesting! :D It's going to be a big unknown until that engine comes apart.

Oh the suspense is just exquisite!
I am sure what ever you choose to do on the old engine, it will be a good reliable engine! The crosshatch is still evident so it has not been thrashed.
I myself am thinking of picking up a jeep with a fairly good engine so I can make up a nice set of spares!

I can't wait to hear the re-build & build threads!

[Mudderoy]

Parts have been ordered...

[denverd1]

local friend has a supercharger in his on wrangler....

[denverd1]

https://easttexas.craigslist.org/cto/4706603502.html
$1000 for a jeep with a 4.0 and 4x4

[Mudderoy]

6238

6239

6240

[Mudderoy]

6241

6242

[Brasscatz]

HAHAHAHA!!!! I see you liked the photo of me swinging for the fences.... I did dismantle part of your head though.... and yes.... I used real tools to do so :D

[Mudderoy]

HAHAHAHA!!!! I see you liked the photo of me swinging for the fences.... I did dismantle part of your head though.... and yes.... I used real tools to do so :D

I was surprised, I really thought you'd hit the head and not the block. :smiley-laughing021:

[Mudderoy]

Opinion:

How many RPMs is too many for a 4.0L to turn over an extended period of time?

Would you think that 3,000 rpm at 80 mph for 30 minutes would be bad for the engine?

[4.3LXJ]

That shouldn't be a problem

[downsy]

You should be able to run it in 3rd gear with an auto (or 4th with a manual) indefinitely with no ill effects at highway speeds.

[Mudderoy]

I have two ARB's to go in after we get this motor problem solved and I was thinking about going to 4:10's if running a 4.0L at 3,000 rpm is just too hard on it.

Thanks guys.

[Mudderoy]

I can't say enough good things about AAA. When the wheel bearing went out on my way home two years ago, called AAA and as I requested a flat bed showed up to haul my broke ass home.

A couple of weeks ago when the engine stopped working, called them again and boom, broke ass home.

I just called them and scheduled a 70 mile tow from my house to Matt's shop in the woods. Short 5 minute called, scheduled!

I can get a tow up to 100 miles. :D

[4.3LXJ]

My son used them regularly. When we get something running we have been working on, you guessed it, they take the running rig there

[XJ Wheeler]

You should get the rv coverage. :D You get 200 mile tows. We have it for our work truck. She's too big for regular tow trucks, aka "plus sized". :p

Sent via messenger pigeon - i talk, he types.

[bigjim350]

Two weeks ago I was out with a AAA tow. For some reason they towed a front wheel drive car from the rear. Overheated the transmission, caught the car on fire, dropped the car on the shoulder, and took off...... Pay careful attention anytime a AAA wrecker loads your car. Most the guys I see driving for them are people that couldnt get a job anywhere else.

[Mudderoy]

I mention I scheduled the tow yesterday with "AAA" Between 8am and 8:15am they said.

At 8:07am I called "AAA". Different lady this time. She told me how it works.

This is my interpretation, drivers don't like 70 mile tows so you get a tow when you get it. lol

The driver that will be taking my 98 to Matt's shop has a scheduled arrival of 8:47am. I told they lady, that's fine, but I was planning my day on 8:15am and it would have been nice to know this yesterday.

I didn't really think we'd be on the road by 8:15 but an arrival time difference of 40+ minutes is a big difference.

I probably couldn't have expected a tow truck that I was paying directly to show up on time either, so as long as we get there in one piece I guess it will be fine.

Just giving you guys an update so you might know what to expect in these situations. :D

[Mudderoy]

The tow went well, and I made it to Matt's shop about 20 minutes before my Jeep did.

Matt was curious so he had to start tearing into the current engine.

:check: Can turn motor with a wrench
:check: Motor turns over but sounds like there is missing teeth on the BRAND NEW when installed 2 years ago!

6286

6287

6288

Later afternoon Jake showed up in a stolen, ahhh borrowed XJ. First time meeting Jake.

[bigjim350]

I stopped by briefly as well. I should have said "hi" but there were too many red jeeps around. I had to get out of there!!

[XJ Wheeler]

You definitely made some progress. It was great hanging out. Hopefully I can come out when you get to swapping them over.

And that "stolen" jeep almost left me stranded there. When I went to leave it wouldn't start, just crank and crank. Finally tried starting in neutral, and sure enough it fired. Guess a nss cleaning is in its future.

Stumbled into this awkward situation. Think things were about to get weird so I got outta there...

6289

[bigjim350]

See that's why I left. That many red jeeps in one place, and things are bound to break down

[bigjim350]

Also, Im sure I'll help build this motor, unacknowledged just like last time.......;)

[Brasscatz]

Also, Im sure I'll help build this motor, unacknowledged just like last time.......;)

Try not to break this one LOL

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

[Mudderoy]

Try not to break this one LOL

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

Matt works too hard so I'm trying to make sure I do as much as I can do on this one and let Matt work on his stuff.

It's not like I can't do it, I'm just a lot slower than Matt. :D

[Brasscatz]

Matt works too hard so I'm trying to make sure I do as much as I can do on this one and let Matt work on his stuff.

It's not like I can't do it, I'm just a lot slower than Matt. :D

I understand. You're distracted by the other awesome red jeep that's up there. It's akin to a hot chick eating lunch near a construction yard :D

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

[OldFaurt]

The tow went well, and I made it to Matt's shop about 20 minutes before my Jeep did.

Matt was curious so he had to start tearing into the current engine.
:check: Can turn motor with a wrench
:check: Motor turns over but sounds like there is missing teeth on the BRAND NEW (Flywheel?) when installed 2 years ago!

6288

Later afternoon Jake showed up in a stolen, ahhh borrowed XJ. First time meeting Jake.

Could we get a head shot?
Carbon and wear look very minimal,
did the shiny spots on the far edge of piston 6 show up on the head as well?

Wow... all those red jeeps, just kinda parked all about...

That would give my black jeep the Willys! :smiley-laughing021:

[Mudderoy]

Could we get a head shot?
Carbon and wear look very minimal,
did the shiny spots on the far edge of piston 6 show up on the head as well?

Wow... all those red jeeps, just kinda parked all about...

That would give my black jeep the Willys! :smiley-laughing021:

Head shots from the non-running 4.0l? It hasn't been taken off yet. I suspect it won't be until after it's been taken out and we have the replacement installed and running.

That's the priority since it is my daily driver. But believe me I want to know what happened and we will find out.

[Pookapotamus]

We all do tony! Keep us informed!

[OldFaurt]

Head shots from the non-running 4.0l? It hasn't been taken off yet. I suspect it won't be until after it's been taken out and we have the replacement installed and running.

That's the priority since it is my daily driver. But believe me I want to know what happened and we will find out.

Oops, I got my jeeps all confused!
I thought that last group of pictures were from the blown engine?
You said you had it towed and got there 20 minutes before the jeep arrived and You guys tore right into it? Sorry, I don't jeep enough yet to relax my brain.

My bad...

Gosh, it's like waiting for the next walking dead jeep episode!
I Really enjoy the build, The broke, The fixed and the fancied up posts. I think I learn the most from them & this group has some fantastic mechanics and writers.

Didn't mean to push you for details... too much!
Hope you all had great weekends! The weather was rather nice here in Katy Texas!

[Mudderoy]

Oops, I got my jeeps all confused!
I thought that last group of pictures were from the blown engine?
You said you had it towed and got there 20 minutes before the jeep arrived and You guys tore right into it? Sorry, I don't jeep enough yet to relax my brain.

My bad...

Gosh, it's like waiting for the next walking dead jeep episode!
I Really enjoy the build, The broke, The fixed and the fancied up posts. I think I learn the most from them & this group has some fantastic mechanics and writers.

Didn't mean to push you for details... too much!
Hope you all had great weekends! The weather was rather nice here in Katy Texas!

Oh no worries, glad someone else is curious besides me.

Speaking of the Walking Dead...

http://traffic.libsyn.com/tonyandjoshshow/45-Tony_And_Josh_show-Walking-Dead-Segment-102214.mp3

[msmoorenburg]

You definitely made some progress. It was great hanging out. Hopefully I can come out when you get to swapping them over.

And that "stolen" jeep almost left me stranded there. When I went to leave it wouldn't start, just crank and crank. Finally tried starting in neutral, and sure enough it fired. Guess a nss cleaning is in its future.

Stumbled into this awkward situation. Think things were about to get weird so I got outta there...

6289

Don't forget the 3rd red one :P

http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m639/sellitx/2000%20XJ/sidedr_zps4ea5cbdd.jpg (http://s1135.photobucket.com/user/sellitx/media/2000%20XJ/sidedr_zps4ea5cbdd.jpg.html)

red jeeps make great parts jeeps :P j/k i have a new direction up my sleeve for that guy

[Mudderoy]

Don't forget the 3rd red one :P

http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m639/sellitx/2000%20XJ/sidedr_zps4ea5cbdd.jpg (http://s1135.photobucket.com/user/sellitx/media/2000%20XJ/sidedr_zps4ea5cbdd.jpg.html)

red jeeps make great parts jeeps :P j/k i have a new direction up my sleeve for that guy

That's a nice one too.

[XJ Wheeler]

Don't forget the 3rd red one :P

http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m639/sellitx/2000%20XJ/sidedr_zps4ea5cbdd.jpg (http://s1135.photobucket.com/user/sellitx/media/2000%20XJ/sidedr_zps4ea5cbdd.jpg.html)

red jeeps make great parts jeeps :P j/k i have a new direction up my sleeve for that guy

Yeah, i counted five red jeeps there! This is getting out of hand! :eek: :D

Sent via messenger pigeon - i talk, he types.

[OldFaurt]

Yeah, i counted five red jeeps there! This is getting out of hand! :eek: :D

Sent via messenger pigeon - i talk, he types.

Oh man... SO WEIRD! I was in traffic on Katy Hockley rd right behind a RED jeep with a large aluminum thing under the license plate! Someone from this list?

RED jeeps :mad0090: are every where!

[Mudderoy]

Went out to Matt's shop to do more work on the motor today.

Matt told me to put some spark plugs in the new engine head before I did any more painting, no naturally I just took them out of the dead motor.

Found this on number 5...

6335

Showed to to Matt, so we had to look further....

See it?

6336

How about now?

6337

:flameon:

[4.3LXJ]

:confused:What am I missing here Tony?

[Mudderoy]

:confused:What am I missing here Tony?

One valve is higher than all the rest. But how could that be? :rolleye0012:

[4.3LXJ]

I saw that, but wasn't sure. Time to pull the head and take a peak

[downsy]

Burned valve seat. Or the seat dropped.

[OldFaurt]

Went out to Matt's shop to do more work on the motor today.

Matt told me to put some spark plugs in the new engine head before I did any more painting, no naturally I just took them out of the dead motor.

Found this on number 5...

6335

Showed to to Matt, so we had to look further....

See it?

6336

How about now?

6337

:flameon:

I notice the Valve guide seals are also blown up the valve stem. (silver area by the base of the springs) I would say you had a catastrophic head gasket failure to water jacket or cracked head/cylinder wall you seem to have had a high speed hydro-lock on that cylinder?
Just me guessing by what I see. also, why are ALL of the rockers at the same height except the really high one? or is it just an optical illusion?
Thanks for the pic! I love pics!

[Mudderoy]

I saw that, but wasn't sure. Time to pull the head and take a peak

Attention on the survivor first, then the dead. :D

[4.3LXJ]

So you are going to just keep me in suspense then? :nono:

[Mudderoy]

So you are going to just keep me in suspense then? :nono:

Sorry Steve, you know what I know. We'll take the head off for the reveal after it's out of the Jeep.

[Pookapotamus]

It's easier to pull the engine without the head! Just saying! 😉

[Mudderoy]

I think we all know what happened, at this point it just how much damage did it do.

[denverd1]

I think we all know what happened, at this point it just how much damage did it do.
Hmm im curious too. What are your thoughts?

[OrangeXJ]

Went out to Matt's shop to do more work on the motor today.

Matt told me to put some spark plugs in the new engine head before I did any more painting, no naturally I just took them out of the dead motor.

Found this on number 5...

6335

Showed to to Matt, so we had to look further....

See it?

6336

How about now?

6337

:flameon:

I've seen this before on the industrial engins I worked on : bent valve stem and just a quess because I can't see the spark plug very good but more than likely part of the valve broke and beat up on the spark plug

[OldFaurt]

Attention on the survivor first, then the dead. :D

Sorry if we are driving you crazy, its just you're better than most of the tv right now...

Since most jeep people are gear heads... we just can't help the curiosity!

God bless my wife! Sour dough french toast & :bacondance:
Aaaah!

[Mudderoy]

Oh no problem, yeah I thought it was obvious. Valve broke and dropped into the cylinder. The stem remains in held by the keepers. Matt had to explain it to me. Since there isn't that conical bit on the end of the stem, or not enough of it to hold the valve spring down it's higher than all the other valve springs along with the rocker.

[4.3LXJ]

You don't suppose that ticking noise you had was a valve touching a piston do you?

[Mudderoy]

You don't suppose that ticking noise you had was a valve touching a piston do you?

I don't think so, I mean I would it expect to run bad if it wasn't closing. The noise would almost go away at times.

If you recall I had a valve float issue between 4250 and 4500 rpm. I hit that several times a day.

So the Crane cam required heavier duty springs, which I have. I'm guessing it floated one time and struck the piston causing a fracture on the valve which eventually came off, or part of that disc.

Maybe it came in contact and caused a problem with the lifter, dunno, but it was months between the tick and this issue.

[Mudderoy]

6394

6395

6396

6397

6398

6399

[4.3LXJ]

Wow Tony, you are not going to save that one. Any loud noises when that happened?

[Mudderoy]

Wow Tony, you are not going to save that one. Any loud noises when that happened?

Really Steve I couldn't hear anything over my sobbing. ;o)

[4.3LXJ]

Must have had the podcast turned up too loud :D

[Mudderoy]

Must have had the podcast turned up too loud :D

I'll pull the video off the dash cam and post it up.

[4.3LXJ]

Probably think you have some kind of steam engine under there :D

[Pookapotamus]

Wow!!!!

[Mudderoy]

http://youtu.be/KUtdXzBSVaU

[4.3LXJ]

:D :D

[Brasscatz]

well, THERE'S your problem....

[Mudderoy]

Authorities are looking for this "person of interest" for questioning in relation to this engine damage...

6400

[Brasscatz]

Looks mexican to me.... probably across the border by now

[Mudderoy]

Here is the reason for the lifter ticking sound...

6406

On the right you can see a normal lobe of the cam, on the left you can see the worn down lobe. You can also see what it did to the lifter, there was literally a bowl shape in the lifter.

6407

6408

And yes, it was on cylinder 5 the same one that dropped the valve. Oh and in case you were shopping around for a great cam to give your 4.0L that little "kick" This is a CRANE CAM H-260-2

[bluedragon436]

Do you feel that the cam had anything to do with any of the damage that your engine sustained?? I only ask cause I know some might be a bit leary to pick up that cam with the fear of having similar issues!!

[Mudderoy]

I'll never purchase a CRANE cam again.

The first CRANE CAM and CRANE lifters fubar the engine. Matt pulled the head, lifters, CAM and replaced the CRANE different size lifters with Standard Power lifters, and another CRANE CAM. Redid the break in procedure, etc...

This worn lobe is on the same cylinder that the catastrophic failure occurred.

The valve impacted the piston and either then, or later, came off as an entire disk, valve stem still attached to the spring and keepers.

It's always possible there is another case that I'm not taking into an account, and if someone else has an idea please share. I always like to learn.

[OrangeXJ]

Have you talked to Crane to get there thoughts on this? They have been around a long time I have used several of there cams in diffrent small block chevy's I had back in my camarro days. Never had any problems. I suspect something happened along the way to cause this not the product. Just my 2 cents.

[Mudderoy]

Have you talked to Crane to get there thoughts on this? They have been around a long time I have used several of there cams in diffrent small block chevy's I had back in my camarro days. Never had any problems. I suspect something happened along the way to cause this not the product. Just my 2 cents.

The first CRANE CAM that was installed in this now dead motor was messed up by the different sized CRANE CAM lifters. I don't know if Amazon reboxed something and mixed lifters up, but few of the lifters were taller than the rest. It was missed during rebuild, as the difference wasn't that much, but we all know that it doesn't take much to mess things up.

I reported this to CRANE, they were concerned and promised to look into it and let me know what they found (after receiving the lifters and CAM back from Amazon). Never heard a thing. I'm going to handle it this way.

I'll never buy another CRANE CAM or lifters. I have posted on the CRANE CAM Facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10203141988095251&set=o.135552043167643

At this point I don't care what they do, they are dead to me. ;)

[OrangeXJ]

I'm really suprised they did not look in to it more. Good luck with the new set up hope it works out better than the last one.

[slvmart]

Anyone know if Crane moved their manufacturing off-shore ?

[OrangeXJ]

Anyone know if Crane moved their manufacturing off-shore ?

Thats always a possability. One of the major industrial engine manufactures I worked for changed venders for the valves in there heads to save 50 cents per valve and the heads started dropping valves like crazy. They went back to there origanal vender problem solved.

[Mudderoy]

I'm really suprised they did not look in to it more. Good luck with the new set up hope it works out better than the last one.

It's Jeep original with the exception of the melling lifters.

[Pookapotamus]

Thanks tony! Now I want to pull my stroker to check my crane cam! Good luck with the new setup.

[Mudderoy]

Thanks tony! Now I want to pull my stroker to check my crane cam! Good luck with the new setup.

Maybe I'm just the unlucky one. There's always one of those guys.

[Pookapotamus]

I'm an unlucky one too! What oil were you running?

[Mudderoy]

I'm an unlucky one too! What oil were you running?

Pensoil 10w30 with Lucas Zinc additive (I forget the exact name, bottle in the garage)

[Mudderoy]

http://youtu.be/ArNINCtNmR4

[autotech98]

Its alive!!

[Mudderoy]

The upstream O2 sensor died, Mopar replacement will be in this week. CPS has a slight issue, so I'll pick up a CPS at the dealership, hopefully recently found out Mopar has discontinued them, and take it with me to Matt's shop next Saturday.

If all goes well I'll be driving it home Sat/Sun.

Everything seems to be looking very good with just a couple of small issues left.

[autotech98]

Glad to hear its getting sorted out man. You'll be wheelin in no time !

[Mudderoy]

Glad to hear its getting sorted out man. You'll be wheelin in no time !

Driving back and forth to work would be peachy to start! :D

[autotech98]

Lol i hear you.

[OldFaurt]

[QUOTE=Mudderoy;196010]6394

Youchy mamma!
So... What are you going to do with the engine now?
Have it sleeved and do a rebuild on it?
or are you going to use it for a pitbul anchor?

Yeah, I am thinking it would not be a great thing to go with another cam from those guys.
Are those other lobes pitted or is that just grime from the mayhem?

[Mudderoy]

[QUOTE=Mudderoy;196010]6394

Youchy mamma!
So... What are you going to do with the engine now?
Have it sleeved and do a rebuild on it?
or are you going to use it for a pitbul anchor?

Yeah, I am thinking it would not be a great thing to go with another cam from those guys.
Are those other lobes pitted or is that just grime from the mayhem?

Block is a gonner. Valve is on my night stand. Head, crank and 5 pistons are probably okay. Don't know yet. I'd like to build another 4.0 and have it sitting just in case. :D I'll have to see what Matt drags in next.

[Mudderoy]

Another Matt update...

http://youtu.be/ZwWgrcEC7Fc

Tab snapped off the NEW distributor
6549

Temp looks good even without an electric fan
6550

Matt found the culprit for the irregular starts (the bits of metal on the CPS)
6551

Oh! and the IAC died while it had it idling. There was piston debris in it. :(

[Mudderoy]

90 miles later, 20 test miles that Matt put on it and the 70 miles driving it back from his shop, it's home and in the garage. :beer:

[4.3LXJ]

Good news Tony :congrats:

[OldFaurt]

90 miles later, 20 test miles that Matt put on it and the 70 miles driving it back from his shop, it's home and in the garage. :beer:

I am so happy for you, your baby is finally home where he/she belongs!

All these CPS issues everyone had made me pull mine this evening.
I had a change in starting behavior shortly after hitting the starter while running
that kicked a few small metallic chips of the starter ring gear that stuck to the CPS.

It starts better than ever now.

I really enjoy all the tech talk here!

[Pookapotamus]

Hurray tony!!!!

[autotech98]

Awesome man glad to hear it

[XJ Wheeler]

Congrats tony. Glad got it back home and safe in its bed. That's not an easy 70 miles either, like 700 anywhere else. :D

Sent via messenger pigeon - i talk, he types.

[oderdene]

Wooohoo, congrats bro. Nice to hear she is doing good

[xj-jake]

I'm glad you got it going again Tony. Might be a good lesson in this for everyone. I see that Crane pulled your post on fb...

[Mudderoy]

I'm glad you got it going again Tony. Might be a good lesson in this for everyone. I see that Crane pulled your post on fb...

Figured they would, and also suspected they had something to do with Facebook requiring a name change on the xjtalk facebook account.

Okay just posted it on the xjtalk Facebook page, and tagged CraneCams on it. :D Maybe they'll actually respond this time. http://facebook.com/xjtalk.page

[Mudderoy]

http://youtu.be/5yhdf4savxE

[XJ Wheeler]

You weren't kidding. Right in front of the '14s!

[Brasscatz]

It's like they were saying, "Well well well.... look what the cat dragged in...."

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

[Mudderoy]

6782

Well I almost made it to work this morning...

[4.3LXJ]

Oh crap Tony, what is going on with the soft plugs?

[Mudderoy]

Oh crap Tony, what is going on with the soft plugs?

Soft plugs?

Anyone know what the size of these freeze plugs are supposed to be? I'm trying to find 4 brass ones. I've seen 1.97 and 2+ inches given.

[4.3LXJ]

Yeah, soft plugs. Their real purpose is to plug the holes to get the casting sand out of the water jacket when the block is cast. I never had a block spit one out before cracking when it froze. Sorry, I don't know the size. On another note, there are some you can get that are expanding rubber style you might be interested in. Much easier to install

[Mudderoy]

Yeah, soft plugs. Their real purpose is to plug the holes to get the casting sand out of the water jacket when the block is cast. I never had a block spit one out before cracking when it froze. Sorry, I don't know the size. On another note, there are some you can get that are expanding rubber style you might be interested in. Much easier to install

Oh that's right, I think Matt just told me that a month ago. I was just reading about the soft rubber, amazing. I just ordered a set of brass (Dorman) from Oreily's. They'll be in tomorrow.

One of the factory originals started weeping at about 100k miles. Had them all replaced with these. They didn't change the block heater one at the front.

I'm a little concerned this one blew out so bad. Never seen anything like this before.

[4.3LXJ]

I am not there, but I think you should not be too concerned. These plugs are thin metal and ANY electrolysis will take them out. Ever use tap water in the coolant? That will do it fairly quickly. The plugs are anodized, but that is thin and could be faulty from the factory too. And remember, this engine has been sitting for awhile, which can affect this situation also. I would just replace them and forget about it.

[Mudderoy]

I am not there, but I think you should not be too concerned. These plugs are thin metal and ANY electrolysis will take them out. Ever use tap water in the coolant? That will do it fairly quickly. The plugs are anodized, but that is thin and could be faulty from the factory too. And remember, this engine has been sitting for awhile, which can affect this situation also. I would just replace them and forget about it.

lol yeah straight "hose" water for thousands of miles.

[4.3LXJ]

Aha, Quick Jeep Tip #46. Always use distilled water in the cooling system :D

[cantab27]

Yeah, soft plugs. Their real purpose is to plug the holes to get the casting sand out of the water jacket when the block is cast. I never had a block spit one out before cracking when it froze. Sorry, I don't know the size. On another note, there are some you can get that are expanding rubber style you might be interested in. Much easier to install

know as frost plugs down here ....have em let go in other cars ...not replaced when engine out ?????

[Mudderoy]

know as frost plugs down here ....have em let go in other cars ...not replaced when engine out ?????

Thought about it, Matt and I discussed, he looked at them, decided not to. :(

The one on the back of the block is 3 years old. I guess I didn't really think about how long these had been in there.

There was a lot to do with the engine and a finite amount of time since I have to drive 1.5 hours to Matt's shop. I just got pushed off the list.

[cantab27]

Thought about it, Matt and I discussed, he looked at them, decided not to. :(

The one on the back of the block is 3 years old. I guess I didn't really think about how long these had been in there.

There was a lot to do with the engine and a finite amount of time since I have to drive 1.5 hours to Matt's shop. I just got pushed off the list.

its always the small things ......rebuild engine swap em out ..back one is a pita why in jeep :D

[Carves]

Sheesh you lot .. :bang:

The damned things are called ... "welch plugs" .. :p

:D :D



Brass ones are the go .. ;);)

2inch diameter ... if I remember correctly.


Sorry to see you having so many issues Mr Mudderoy.

[HeepJr]

aww man that sucks! Sorry to hear...

[XJ Wheeler]

Sheesh you lot .. :bang:

The damned things are called ... "welch plugs" .. :p

:D :D



Brass ones are the go .. ;);)

2inch diameter ... if I remember correctly.


Sorry to see you having so many issues Mr Mudderoy.

Also known as "Brasscapz"

:smiley-taunt002:

[Mudderoy]

Sheesh you lot .. :bang:

The damned things are called ... "welch plugs" .. :p

:D :D



Brass ones are the go .. ;);)

2inch diameter ... if I remember correctly.


Sorry to see you having so many issues Mr Mudderoy.

What do I care what the Welch do with them? :out:

[Mudderoy]

Okay I need some advice from the "more" knowledgeable that I folks. :D

I was thinking that the freeze plug had rusted and basically exploded leaving a tiny edge of metal, but that isn't what happened.

The freeze plug just popped out.

6800

It doesn't freeze down here and I had a gallon of preston in there from when we first put the engine in (and not that 50/50 crap!).

Why would a freeze plug just pop out?

Looking at the remain freeze plugs they are slightly rusty on the water jacket side, but no where near thin.

The reason why I'm asking is I'd like to understand what happened so I can stop, or predict when it's going to happen again.

The temp gauge shows 210 without coolant! :P

[Mudderoy]

Here's the finished Dorman brass plug install.

6801

[4.3LXJ]

Did they need to be hammered in?

[Mudderoy]

Did they need to be hammered in?

The brass ones? Oh yeah, and getting the steel ones out wasn't a breeze until I grabbed the air chisel. ;o)

I put that gasket shellac on them!

I used a 33mm (something like that) socket to put the brass ones in, they went in easy, but it took several whacks.

[4.3LXJ]

They should be OK then. But if they leak again, go to the rubber ones

[Mudderoy]

They should be OK then. But if they leak again, go to the rubber ones

Damned strange. I've never had one pop out. Oh and I looked online for some rubber ones, I couldn't find any specifically for the Jeep Cherokee 4.0. I'll have another look. It would be nice to have some in case this happens again. Consevible I could repair, refill and go.

[4.3LXJ]

Well, those aren't machined holes.

[Mudderoy]

Well, those aren't machined holes.

Ahhh so you're saying I need something that will expand to fit. Would it sitting dry for two years have anything to do with it?

[4.3LXJ]

I don't think so. Just saying there is some variability in the holes because they are cast surfaces

[Mudderoy]

I don't think so. Just saying there is some variability in the holes because they are cast surfaces

Alrighty then, damn just as I was getting a good feeling about the motor and it dies on me.

coil, then freeze plug...

[4.3LXJ]

It wasn't dead, just wounded.

[Mudderoy]

Yeah still runs, at least I could drive it in the garage this time!

I'll look on the back of the shellac but does that stuff have to set up? If so how long?

[4.3LXJ]

Don't know about that

[Mudderoy]

Well after a big meal and a little nap, this guy is going to finish up the Jeep tomorrow.

It works out since I was reading how a faulty radiator cap could (possibly) cause a freeze plugs to pop. I'd think something else would go first, but doing some research I have read about a few 4.0's popping freeze plugs.

I think most of the comments were to replace all of them. Frankly I don't want to call the wrecker again.

I'll grab a new 16 lbs radiator cap and get everything back together after work.

[bluedragon436]

Hope the new plugs and a new cap will help keep her going strong.. always got to work out bugs on a "new" engines.. but man this one is really testing your patience isn't it??!! LOL..

[Brasscatz]

On the bright side... you get more out of your AAA membership than most people do :D

[Mudderoy]

6808

6809

6810

Everything is back together and running.

I still have to pick up a few things in the garage but I'm clean so I'll be able to sit in my Jeep and move it out then back in the garage. :D

[bluedragon436]

Glad to hear she is back together and going.. Look forward to hearing how the test run(s) go and how driving her over the next few days go.. Hope it goes well and no more issues turn up!!

[XJ Wheeler]

I see my intake is back on there. I picked one up this weekend so you can hang on to it for now. :p

Glad its back together. Hope they decide to stay in this time!

[Mudderoy]

Well made it to work today... And on the PLUS side I now know a way to get to the CPS very easy!

6811

[NW99XJ]

Did you replace the header gasket or re-use the old one?

[Mudderoy]

Did you replace the header gasket or re-use the old one?

Same one