What have you towed with your XJ??

[beatupjeep]

I have a home machine shop and I'd like to add some more heavy machinery like lathes and mills. There are always great deals across the country on ebay but the quotes I've gotten for hauling a 6000lb mill 1500 miles are in the $1800 price range.

To make it a little more workable on my poor XJ, I can probably still find a great deal within 200 miles at more like 4000lbs.

Can that be reliably towed? So we're talking 2 tons, 400 miles round trip?

The most likely scenario is loading the equipment with a forklift from the side of the trailer, and then unloading it by rolling it off somehow on dollies.

Or, I could rent a forklift to unload, but I'd like to avoid that.

So what would I need to fab up trailer wise and how realistic is it to do a tow like that?

I'm up for sinking $1000 into this to get it all to work..I can do alot with the ability to transport machinery in this weight range..buy/fix/sell...etc..

And if you have any 1000lb+ towing experiences lets hear them!!

[4.3LXJ]

One trailer - 2240#
With one rolled XJ - 3400"
Total distance - 660 miles through the mountains

With an XJ with a 2.8L and 5 speed

So it can be done if you are determined

I did it with a class II receiver hitch and an add a leaf good for 3" of lift. It sat level with all the tongue weight on it.

[beatupjeep]

One trailer - 2240#
With one rolled XJ - 3400"
Total distance - 660 miles through the mountains

With an XJ with a 2.8L and 5 speed

So it can be done if you are determined

I did it with a class II receiver hitch and an add a leaf good for 3" of lift. It sat level with all the tongue weight on it.

Thats amazing!!

I would be transporting probably that same distance, and probably the same weight, but on flat freeways and such.

What did the trailer look like? Was it heavier than needed to do that?

I'll probably need to design a trailer for this too. As light as possible and as friendly as possible for loading and unloading. Its worth it to me because I can get alot done and make money with a setup that can do this.

[4.3LXJ]

This is the trailer. My do anything indestructible hunk of iron. Frame is 2X4X1/4" rectangular tubing with 1/4" diamond plate deck. Stake pockets all around with welded on hooks front and back to tie down vehicles. I hauled a 10,000# tractor the same distance with it and blew the tires. So I got the mobil home tires instead. Makes a great welding table too

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu215/warriorsuspension/Pauls%20TJ/IMG_0138_zps82581d46.jpg

[XJ Wheeler]

The XJ is technically rated at 5k lbs towing capacity but you will be just over that if the trailer isn't too heavy.

For building the trailer i would go with two 3500lbs axles and definitely brakes. For your needs i would build a car hauler type trailer with a flat deck. With plenty of tie downs on the sides.

Sent via messenger pigeon - i talk, he types.

[beatupjeep]

This is the trailer. My do anything indestructible hunk of iron. Frame is 2X4X1/4" rectangular tubing with 1/4" diamond plate deck. Stake pockets all around with welded on hooks front and back to tie down vehicles. I hauled a 10,000# tractor the same distance with it and blew the tires. So I got the mobil home tires instead. Makes a great welding table too

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu215/warriorsuspension/Pauls%20TJ/IMG_0138_zps82581d46.jpg

wow thats a monster..I hope I dont need something that heavy..but it looks like it would be perfect

[beatupjeep]

The XJ is technically rated at 5k lbs towing capacity but you will be just over that if the trailer isn't too heavy.

For building the trailer i would go with two 3500lbs axles and definitely brakes. For your needs i would build a car hauler type trailer with a flat deck. With plenty of tie downs on the sides.

Sent via messenger pigeon - i talk, he types.

something I'm concerned about is that all this weight of the machinery will be dead, unsprung...not like a car which has a suspension..

so I definitely need to consider a good suspension setup on the trailer, right?

is there a hill-billy way I can do this that actually ends up being really stout..like buying a $500 piece of crap truck that doesnt run, scrapping the body, and just using the frame and suspension to make a trailer out of?

[cantab27]

6083


towing with a auto I would fit a aftermarket trans cooler....as for dead weight when towing I strap my tj down so suspension cant move and trailers suspension does the work , if that make any sense...;)

[XJ Wheeler]

I suppose an old 1 ton truck may work but i don't know the size of your equipment plus that would be a good bit taller which i don't like for the center of gravity. But yes you will need suspension. The easiest and probably cheapest is gonna be a leaf spring setup.

Sent via messenger pigeon - i talk, he types.

[4.3LXJ]

I would advise against a single axle for that kind of weight. Get mobile home axles, with the 5 on 5.5 bolt pattern and go with a tandem axle. They ride much better and don' bounce on bumps

[beatupjeep]

okay guys I'm sort of getting stuck in a rut (pun intended here)..

I've asked about XJ towing before on various forums and for the same reasons

I seem to always get solid info on both extremes..some folks say that their experience towing anything heavier than about 1500lbs was very iffy and the XJ could barely keep up, on the verge of death wobble

other folks are saying theyve towed 6000 lbs basically problem free on moutain roads for hundreds of miles

and there are several different such stories from both sides..so its not just one offs

whats the deal here?? Is there possibly some element to this puzzle that makes or breaks the XJ dealing with towing? How can there be such extreme differences in peoples XJ towing experiences of heavy loads?

Perhaps the bad exp. are with worn leafs and suspension and engines in horrible condition with improperly loaded trailers and the good exp are good engines, good suspension, and properly loaded/fitted trailers?

[4.3LXJ]

The XJ is not really a tow rig. I haven't towed anything since I did the extreme stuff mentioned. But, I could have. Bear in mind, before hook up I had a very raked rig that went down in back about 4" with the tongue weight. When I got where I was going, I finished the lift with some 3" coils and shocks. So, I was basically towing level, so I had the proper amount of weight on the front end. Also, I kept my speed down to 55 or below even on straight roads. But if you have all the weight on the back, yes the steering is going to be dicey. You can do things like install air bags to give you more towing capacity, then remove them afterwards. Also good shocks are a must. And you need to be experienced in towing and braking heavy loads etc. Bottom line, it has to be sound mechanically or you will have problems

[beatupjeep]

The XJ is not really a tow rig. I haven't towed anything since I did the extreme stuff mentioned. But, I could have. Bear in mind, before hook up I had a very raked rig that went down in back about 4" with the tongue weight. When I got where I was going, I finished the lift with some 3" coils and shocks. So, I was basically towing level, so I had the proper amount of weight on the front end. Also, I kept my speed down to 55 or below even on straight roads. But if you have all the weight on the back, yes the steering is going to be dicey. You can do things like install air bags to give you more towing capacity, then remove them afterwards. Also good shocks are a must. And you need to be experienced in towing and braking heavy loads etc. Bottom line, it has to be sound mechanically or you will have problems

This is great info!!!

Okay I'm very excited because based on what I'm hearing from people it seems like those who have towed big with the XJ have simply done all the things needed to do it, and those who've had bad experiences have probably had poor setups due to last-minute emergencies, etc..

Also I've read some interesting articles as this site:

http://www.canamrv.ca/towing/

These peoples slogan is :

"We are The Towing Specialists
Years of aggressively experimenting with towing combinations make us the experts."

and this gem:

"Sometimes people are alarmed at the combinations that Can-Am creates but rest assured that each one is thought through very carefully. "

Along with videos of passenger cars towing 34' travel trailers through a slalom lol.

They have some interesting articles in the "hitch hints" about setting up passenger vehicles for towing very heavy loads.

Its clear that a load-distributing hitch with torsion bars is a must.

And a trailer setup with brakes and a proper suspension is also a must.

Given that those people have setup towing of a full size trailer with a mini and said it was extremely stable and fun to drive I think that this is coming down to doing things right and not cutting corners, which I can totally do because this isn't an emergency and I dont have to make do with what I have on hand, etc...

So I'm going to try and zero in on what the full design would be. So far the list seems to be:

-equalizing class 3 hitch
-brakes on the trailer
-shocks + leaf springs on trailer
-2 wheels on each side of trailer
-airbags? (where do these go?)
-trailer as low as possible
-putting good condition, stock size tires back on XJ
-upgrade XJ rear brakes to disc (???)
-fixing the rotted out fuse box in the xj from the clutch master cylinder leak (I'm on my 3rd master cylinder)
-Shock are gabriels which are really nice all around..I'm guess they are good to go.
-Leaf springs in XJ are new but stock-rate. Perhaps I should swap them for heavy-duty?

Heres some interesting guidelines from rv.org about calculating appropriate trailer length vs. vehicle wheelbase. The one thing I do have going for me is that Im not towing something with a large cross section. It would likely be a machine with a tarp over it and fairly low, maybe 4 to 6feet high at most and perhaps 8 feet long at most.

http://davidsrvtips.blogspot.com/2009/03/how-long.html

So it seems the guidelines are...

#1
110" wheelbase = 20' of trailer.

So for a 101" XJ, that seems to be 18'.

#2
"The distance from the coupler to the rear trailer axle should be no more than twice the wheelbase of the tow vehicle."

101 * 2 = 202" = 16 feet. Hmm that seems like I should be able to achieve that since what I will be hauling will be alot shorter than that and so therefore the trailer should be less than 16 feet I would think.

#3
"The next thing to look at is how far the coupler is from the trailer tires? The greater the distance, the lesser the impact it will have on the tow vehicle and the less sway it could create."

Huh...this seems kind of contradictory to #2. So I guess that means there is a balance to be had, a sweet spot if you will, of where to put the axles? Not too close, not too far?

I think this is a bit ambiguous and may be assuming a high cross section and wind loading. Need to keep researching..

[4.3LXJ]

Air bags are auxiliary air bags for the suspension. They act like an extra spring and are easily removed when not needed. However you cannot run stock wheels with them. The tires will rub a hole in them. You could also rig up a auxiliary helper/overload spring on top of the current leaf spring. If you are handy and plan, also easily removable. I had one on a 1 ton power wagon that would haul three yards of gravel nicely. It did ride nice and smooth that way. There are also brake controllers that vary the trailer braking depending on the change in angle of the towing vehicle when braking. They work well. And basically the farther back the trailer axles are the less the impact on the towing vehicle

[downsy]

You can tow a lot more than you think you can. Look at what they tow in Europe that's considered common. Small 4 banger cars carrying full on Camper Trailers (caravans over there).

Their trick is towing regulations, driver training and lower speeds. Where in the US we've become accustomed to simply getting a larger tow vehicle to tow a heavier load.

Weight distributing hitches help A LOT. Along with good trailer brakes not just surge brakes.

The heaviest thing I've towed is probably a ZJ on a car dolly. It was short range so no big deal.

Heaviest thing on a real trailer is the trailer and two motorcycles. Wasn't a big deal Jeep handled it fine.

[cpttuna]

I pulled my 5X8 (1000lb) utility trailer loaded with 2800 lbs of topsoil 12 miles and it scared me to death. My suggestion is to borrow or rent a decent size rig to do the job.

[beatupjeep]

I pulled my 5X8 (1000lb) utility trailer loaded with 2800 lbs of topsoil 12 miles and it scared me to death. My suggestion is to borrow or rent a decent size rig to do the job.

okay guys all the stories are just adding to the confusion...

this guy just towed a 4000lb granite surface plate like cake using a 2000 pontiac van and a uhaul rented trailer.

That trailer has an empty weight of 1500lbs so total its 6500lbs on that minivan.

WTF....I'm thinking its really REALLY all about the specifics of your load distribution and hitch setup.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y48/MARK1234SARA/uh2_zpsd158beca.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y48/MARK1234SARA/uh1_zps94002f88.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y48/MARK1234SARA/uh3_zps8cb50311.jpg

[downsy]

And those UHaul trailers are no joke. They are built to be bomb proof since they have to survive the average American renter. Their car trailers weight north of 2000 lbs last I checked.

[XJ Wheeler]

Yes you are on the right track with that train of thought. Its amazing the difference it can make with weight distribution and load placement. Especially when dealing with a smaller heavier item like you want to haul. Four thousand pounds localized to eight feet is far more important to place correctly then sixteen feet long. In my experience I have yet to deal with a load distributing hitch but have heard it makes a major difference and honestly the five thousand pound rating on an xj is with one. Without you can take about fifteen hundred off. So yes I would make that part of the list as you have done. That list looks pretty complete to me. I also suggest the overload springs steve mentioned earlier. A couple u-bolts and you're good.

I applaud you for taking this seriously. There's far too many people being dangerous when towing.

[beatupjeep]

Yes you are on the right track with that train of thought. Its amazing the difference it can make with weight distribution and load placement. Especially when dealing with a smaller heavier item like you want to haul. Four thousand pounds localized to eight feet is far more important to place correctly then sixteen feet long. In my experience I have yet to deal with a load distributing hitch but have heard it makes a major difference and honestly the five thousand pound rating on an xj is with one. Without you can take about fifteen hundred off. So yes I would make that part of the list as you have done. That list looks pretty complete to me. I also suggest the overload springs steve mentioned earlier. A couple u-bolts and you're good.

I applaud you for taking this seriously. There's far too many people being dangerous when towing.

I really appreciate all the help guys. I'll keep posting whatever crazy thoughts I have on it and if/when I actually get something rigged up I'll post it.

That uhaul trailer towing the granite surface plate seems to rent for a whopping $29 a day..if I can tow 2 tons with it a couple hundred miles with my XJ that would be a HUGE victory, all I'd need then is a high quality hitch. Maybe I'd not be such a cheap a$$ and actually drop $300 for a load equalizing hitch with torsion bars.

BTW if you want to see the machinery in question, heres one I'm seriously considering but I may pass on it and wait for one with a turret.

Anilam Eagle CNC Lathe

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Anilam-Eagle-CNC-Lathe-/141349753424?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20e91a1250

But its only 90 miles from me, plus they offered to deliver and unload it for $500. Thats a pretty good deal actually.

But more likely than not I will need to move a 4000+ lb piece of machinery a few hundred miles and save $1500+ on shipping sometime in the next year.

Heres another one, not sure how much it will go for but no bids so far. Also not sure how heavy it is..could easily be more like 8000 lbs given its design:

1982 Mazak SL15 lathe

1982 Mazak SL15 Lathe | eBay

[XJ Wheeler]

Yeah, eight thousand pounds you might have to leave the xj at home. :p

[prcjeep]

Towing excess loads is dangerous, aside from mech failure, all accidents are driver error.
With my XJ i have towed msmooresburg's heavy a$$ trailer(approx 1750lbs) and a 73 wagoneer on it. That come to around about 6k. My XJ has a 5k rated hitch and is a 5-speed. That load i towed about 40 miles all back roads and my speeds were no more than about 30-35. My XJ jas a 4.5 inch lift on it and the rear end was way down, i had about 1/4 inch gap between my tires and rear fenders, needless to say every single bump made it rub.

I have also towed a YJ on the same trailer about 400 miles round trip up into our Texas hill country and one other time same trip with the yj being flat towed. This wasnt as low in the rear as with the waggy, and when flat towing, much much easier.

I've never had any real close calls on any of these hauls. Was I concerned?? You bet! But I just always gave the other people more space and planned waaaay ahead for stopping.

Ill see if i can find some photos


Edit:
http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad210/prcrawfo/20130101_154656_zps26b0b738.jpg (http://s936.photobucket.com/user/prcrawfo/media/20130101_154656_zps26b0b738.jpg.html)

http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad210/prcrawfo/downsized_0505121815.jpg (http://s936.photobucket.com/user/prcrawfo/media/downsized_0505121815.jpg.html)

[Carves]

I pulled my 5X8 (1000lb) utility trailer loaded with 2800 lbs of topsoil 12 miles and it scared me to death. My suggestion is to borrow or rent a decent size rig to do the job.


You should have given me a call,

.... I could have unloaded it and spread it around a bit for you .. ;);)

:D:D


http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n629/carves-oz/Funnies/01.jpg


As for towing with the XJ ... The factory rating is way too high IMHO.

Good sized motor ( 4.0l ),
... but the brakes are way underpar,
... and no matter how big and fancy a towbar you fit ... its still only bolted to tinfoil.

A proper oilcooler for the auto, and brakes on the trailer, are a minimum IMHO.

If your planning on towing heavy, regularly ... run tandem suspension on the trailer - so that the trailer carries the bulk of the weight ... instead of the XJs towball.

Airbags are useful ... there are some that fit without rubbing ... depends on tyres and offsets though.


Biggest ( heaviest ) job Ive given this one ... is an 8hr run when I picked up the XJ parts wreck,

... but I drove a lot more steady and careful, than what I do, going to the mall .. :D

... altho there were a coupla toyota drivers that didnt look happy they were getting overtaken by two XJs ... that were powered by only one, AMC 4.0l .. :D

[denverd1]

woo! 8000 lbs is quite a load.

speaking of load placement, what the hell was the guy with the 4000 slab thinking? entire load is on the tail end of the trailer, not sure how he kept the rear tires on the road.

at any rate, a load distributing hitch is an absolute minimum followed closely by airbags in the rear. Braking would scare the shit out of me, but I guess it could be done.

If big equipment is your thing, you may think about using a more capable transport rig. buy an old diesel F250 and don't be afraid to run the piss out of it.

[beatupjeep]

woo! 8000 lbs is quite a load.

speaking of load placement, what the hell was the guy with the 4000 slab thinking? entire load is on the tail end of the trailer, not sure how he kept the rear tires on the road.

at any rate, a load distributing hitch is an absolute minimum followed closely by airbags in the rear. Braking would scare the shit out of me, but I guess it could be done.

If big equipment is your thing, you may think about using a more capable transport rig. buy an old diesel F250 and don't be afraid to run the piss out of it.

to be clear I'm not saying I'd attempt 8000 lbs with the XJ. I just name dropped that in reference to a CNC lathe that was a crazy deal on ebay.

Most likely it will be 3000 to 5500 lbs.

And yeah that loading on the slab was pretty bad. He says he didnt go over 30mph.

In re: to other trucks that could handle bigger loads, I've also been recommended a 1997 dodge cummins 12V which apparently has a ginormous tow capacity and typically run a few grand.

It probably makes the most sense for me not to even get a machine beyond 2 tons in weight. That weight certainly can do whatever I need and is most likely a couple horsepower with a turret and all the bells and whistles. I'm not planning on roughing a 4" x 48" bar of oil quenched down to a tooth pick for hecks sake..and the cost of a rotary phase converter goes up pretty fast above a few horsepower.