Thinking of joining the Dark Side (TJ) and wanting advice from my fellow jeepsters...

[JeepZombie]

I purchased my 1993 Jeep Cherokee Sport with a 3" lift, only the rear leafs weren't done (Because the PO felt they didn't want a "body lift" only a "suspension lift" and didn't consider the leaf springs to be a suspension lift...true story) so I fixed that...

And when I say fixed, I mean started the path that's lead me eventually to a whole new line of thinking, which is where you all come in - read on...

So, the jeep has larger tires on it, befitting of a 3" lift. Which means it has an oversized spare tire...which means I have zero cargo space.

So, I started thinking "Project time!"

Which lead me to thinking of everything from slapping the spare into a cargo carrier on the roof, to modifying the original mount space to fit the bigger tire, to fabricating a swing-out rear tire carrier, to gutting the interior, removing the rear seats and creating a custom spare tire holder behind the front seats while leveling the floor in the back (and creating a hidden floor panel, etc etc etc).

So, to say the least, I was thinking of a LOT of modding...which is fine, I love the idea of creating new things for a vehicle (honestly I'd be dangerous if I ever got a welder).

Okay, so fast-forward to the other day when my fiancee (best woman in the world - hey, she's willing to marry me and she loves jeeps) and I are taking a drive and talking about the massive list of things I want to do to the jeep.

After listening quietly to everything I had to say...she starts off with:

Her: Okay, so one question...
Me: Fire away.
Her: After you do all of this to the jeep...which sounds great and all, is it really the jeep you *want*? I mean, are you going to be happy with it?
Me: ...huh?
Her: Well, I hear you go on and on about what you want to do to change it, but there's never any real *passion* about the jeep itself...and honey...I've seen you looking.
Me: What? No! I haven't...
Her: Yes you have...I see how you look at those Wranglers all the time...and don't get me started on how your neck snaps whenever a Rubicon goes by...
Me: Well...baby...I mean...
Her: So, question still stands...
Me: I...ummm...err...no. No, it's not what I really want.
Her: So then, why don't we get you what you *want* and *then* have you modify it however you want?
Me: Did I ever mention how much I love you?

So, long story short...I realized that although I do enjoy an XJ and find them fun and challenging...the jeep I've always wanted was a Wrangler.

Since then I've done a pile of research (I am a computer geek by trade so research is about as basic as breathing to me) and what I've found that I *think* I want, is as follows:

1997-2002 TJ - Sport Sahara or Apex (An '01 anniversary edition would be nice as well)
2003 Rubicon (I can dream, can't I?)

Now, as for my needs: I want a 4.0 and a manual transmission. I love manuals and I've missed mine for years.

So, here's my thinking process on all of this:

1997-2002 had the 4.0 and solid metal well...everything. 2003 and newer started adding plastic parts, such as the mirrors, etc. and although I'm a fan of less weight, I'm not a fan of less quality...
1997+ had spring coil suspension front and rear and I feel the ride would be smoother on that than on the older leaf setup (opinions?) even though a lift would be more expensive to do (opinions?).

As for why I am wanting to switch, I just love the body style of the TJ and I think I could have a lot more fun modding one of them over an XJ.

So, this is where you - my fellow jeep enthusiasts, come into play. I'd like some advice, pointers, opinions and maybe even a little guidance on what to look for, the best year/years in that timespan and why...

Even advice on how to find a good used TJ to start with would be greatly appreciated. Hey, I have a great daily driver XJ that makes a trip from VA to DE once a month and gets 19.5mpg on the highway available as a trade... ;)

Thanks in advance for any help you all can offer...

Cheers,

[Brasscatz]

Well, I think you've done the proper research on all of it and I think you've hit the sweet spot on the years you are looking for. TJ's are expensive to start with for sure. You seem to like modifying, so you wouldn't let a few undesirable features stand in your way. I personally like the look and feel of the interior of a YJ or CJ better because it's just so simple and quintessentially "Jeep". You can modify the suspension to get rid of leaf springs too.

All that being said, if you can find a TJ in your year range for a good price, go for it. Otherwise, I've got a nice YJ that I'm fixing up and can sell ya :D

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4 because my microwave couldn't do it

[4.3LXJ]

I could probably write a book on this, but we have to go work on the TJ today so here are a few thoughts.

I have a highly modified XJ and my son has a YJ with a five speed and a TJ that had the auto tranny, which is now getting a 4.7L V8. It is in and all fluids in it but as soon as we finish the wiring, it will be ready to go. See http://www.xjtalk.com/showthread.php?t=13718&highlight=project

The YJ is not as nice a vehicle to drive, but easier to lift etc. The tops don't fit as well and little stuff like that.

The TJ is nicer and has much more stuff you can get. It does ride better, but not near as well as an XJ. Start thinking long trips here. Also it has a rag top, and the heater is not near enough to keep it warm in winter. Also think long trips here. So unless you get a hardtop, you will be on the cool side. However the TJ and the YJ are both fun to drive in the summer with a bikini top on and wind in your hair.

So there it is, the others are more fun to drive. Off road, the TJ and YJ are easier to see over the hood. But the XJ is far more comfortable off road due to wheel base being longer. I will work on the TJ suspension some more and maybe I can fix some of that, but for now the XJ is a much better long distance vehicle and the wife likes the air and heat when needed. My spare is outside and I have enough cargo room for all our camping gear, which is considerable.

[abebehrmann]

I understand where you're coming from. I love the way my XJ drives but I also love the look and ability to take the top off of our TJ. Plus the TJ is super fun to drive, not as comfortable as the XJ but fun sorta like a go-kart. I think the main reason the XJ is more comfortable is the increased wheelbase. With this in mind, have you considered an LJ (TJ unlimited)? I feel like this has the best of both worlds, open top driving PLUS they are a bit more comfortable/ have more interior storage than the normal TJ. The LJ also came standard with a Dana44 rearend so you wouldn't have to worry as much about breaking an axle going up in tire size.

[JeepZombie]

All that being said, if you can find a TJ in your year range for a good price, go for it. Otherwise, I've got a nice YJ that I'm fixing up and can sell ya :D

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4 because my microwave couldn't do it

Thanks Brasscatz! I'm pretty sure I really want to focus on getting a TJ, but hey - if you're open to trade negotiations and the YJ could be used as a safe reliable daily driver, I might be interested. :)

Side note - what about some ideas on things like:

1) Reasonable price range.
2) Bad Idea(tm) Good Idea(tm) parts to look out for (Like, the 199x had a super uber mad bomber X differential as an option, look for the little jolly roger flag on the case, kind of tips)...
3) Common Major Issues (Like, bent frame is common, etc)
4) Common Minor Issues newbies don't know about (Like a common plug wire that disconnects, stock widget X fails after X miles and can be easily replaced for cheap)
5) ???

Cheers!

[JeepZombie]

The TJ is nicer and has much more stuff you can get. It does ride better, but not near as well as an XJ. Start thinking long trips here. Also it has a rag top, and the heater is not near enough to keep it warm in winter. Also think long trips here. So unless you get a hardtop, you will be on the cool side. However the TJ and the YJ are both fun to drive in the summer with a bikini top on and wind in your hair.

Wow, some really good pros/cons information LXJ!

Personally, aside from the occasional road trip from Delaware to Virginia and back again, I'm not looking at one as anything other than a local daily driver/funvee-type vehicle.

That being said, I really *really* dig the removable hard-top style. Is there anything I need to be aware of on years that the hard-top is available, issues with them, ease of purchase aftermarket or craigslist specials?

I'm actually hoping to find someone who wants a Jeep XJ as a project vehicle and has a equally decent TJ to swap out with maybe some cash or additional trade on either side. Do you think that's a realistic hope or a pipedream of a trade?

Cheers!

[JeepZombie]

I understand where you're coming from. I love the way my XJ drives but I also love the look and ability to take the top off of our TJ. Plus the TJ is super fun to drive, not as comfortable as the XJ but fun sorta like a go-kart.
rofl Go-kart jeep mod!!!!! rofl

I think the main reason the XJ is more comfortable is the increased wheelbase. With this in mind, have you considered an LJ (TJ unlimited)? I feel like this has the best of both worlds, open top driving PLUS they are a bit more comfortable/ have more interior storage than the normal TJ. The LJ also came standard with a Dana44 rearend so you wouldn't have to worry as much about breaking an axle going up in tire size.

Well, another point is, I'm looking at a jeep for two reasons - fun daily driver and beach party driver! I am *not* looking to lift it to the moon, put 750" super rims/tires on the jeep nor to climb Mt. Rushmore with it. :D

Just want to have fun and mod it until it's my own style. :)

That being said, the LJ is *just* as sexy, but I have done virtually zero research on them. Are they along the same years? Newer? Are they less expensive? More?

I really appreciate all the wonderful feedback, thank you all!

Cheers!

[4.3LXJ]

Wow, some really good pros/cons information LXJ!

Personally, aside from the occasional road trip from Delaware to Virginia and back again, I'm not looking at one as anything other than a local daily driver/funvee-type vehicle.

That being said, I really *really* dig the removable hard-top style. Is there anything I need to be aware of on years that the hard-top is available, issues with them, ease of purchase aftermarket or craigslist specials?

I'm actually hoping to find someone who wants a Jeep XJ as a project vehicle and has a equally decent TJ to swap out with maybe some cash or additional trade on either side. Do you think that's a realistic hope or a pipedream of a trade?

Cheers!

That will be a tough trade. Hard tops go for a premium and probably will be difficult to find with a 5 speed

[JeepZombie]

I figured an even up trade would be completely unrealistic, considering if everything between the jeeps was identical, the TJ would be worth roughly 2x as much.

But, finding one that was stock but mostly issue-free *might* be an equal trade for a lifted xj that has a tight 4.0ho dropping 19mpg on the highway...

Otherwise, I'll be saving up for the next six months or more to pick up my first TJ...

[ArmyGuy45]

I owned 2 wranglers before I got the XJ. My first wrangler was a 2000 with the 4 cyl and 5 speed on 33's. Fun to 4x4 with but sucks on the freeway. I had to keep it in 4th gear to stay at 75 on level ground and it killed my gas. It was a soft top by the end of the trip I was deaf.



I later bought a 2008 JK Rubicon and I loved it to death. Great turn radius and with a set of D44's I didn't have to worry about the axles breaking. That thing was a TANK and I was able to squeeze 23 mpg out of it. Grocery shopping was kinda of a pain since with kids in the back seat there wasn't much cargo room.

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q520/ArmyGuy1911/CIMG1949.jpg
http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q520/ArmyGuy1911/Image0079-1_zps45e04036.jpg

But I had a 3rd kid and I needed a 5 seater so I sold the JK and got a XJ. Coming from the Wrangler world to the Cherokee world I can say that the turn radius sucks in the XJ. The XJ is way more comfortable to ride in on long distances and seems to have more power at higher speeds. I do not like the fact that the XJ is a uniframe since if you get in a bad enough wreck it could cripple the strength of the vehicle. I am happy with the mpg I am currently getting with the XJ at 20.4 at my last fill up but its mostly stock. I can pack a lot of things in the XJ since it has the cargo room for it to include groceries. I also like the fact that its a 4 door (I could never buy a 4 door Wranger, just doesn't seem right). With all of that said, if you plan on getting a Wrangler I would use it for a toy and not a DD.

[JeepZombie]

ArmyGuy45: That Rubicon is sexy. I would *love* to snag a Rubi, but that would be a LOT more $$$ that I would not be able to save for a LONG time (like years)

But as a DD, I'm talking local around town driving, no highway driving other than maybe once a month or less. So...mostly a toy. ;-)

[4.3LXJ]

Don't get the 4 cal. They are cheaper for a reason

[JeepZombie]

Errmmm..."4 cal" would that be a gun nut's version of a 4 cyl?" :-)

[4.3LXJ]

Less than even a BB. :D Dang autocorrect

[JeepZombie]

Wait, the gun caliber or the engine? ;-)

[4.3LXJ]

FOUR CYLINDER, as in 2.5L sicko squirrels in a cage :D

[JeepZombie]

Ooohhhh...yeah, four bangers are for tuners, not jeeps. ;-)

[abebehrmann]

That being said, I really *really* dig the removable hard-top style. Is there anything I need to be aware of on years that the hard-top is available, issues with them, ease of purchase aftermarket or craigslist specials?

I'm actually hoping to find someone who wants a Jeep XJ as a project vehicle and has a equally decent TJ to swap out with maybe some cash or additional trade on either side. Do you think that's a realistic hope or a pipedream of a trade?

Cheers!

As far as I know, the hardtop was available on all TJs from 97-06. If you really have your heart set on one, they run anywhere from $500-1000 used on CL with new ones costing even more so keep that in mind when you're shopping around.

It's possible you could get someone to trade maybe a 97 or 98 TJ 4cyl for your XJ +$1-2k or so. At least here in FL that sounds like a decent trade



That being said, the LJ is *just* as sexy, but I have done virtually zero research on them. Are they along the same years? Newer? Are they less expensive? More?

I really appreciate all the wonderful feedback, thank you all!

Cheers!
I believe the LJ was available only from 04-06. They are around the same price as a normal TJ from these years.

[prerunner1982]

Here you had better have 2-3 XJs to trade for a TJ...

[JeepZombie]

It's possible you could get someone to trade maybe a 97 or 98 TJ 4cyl for your XJ +$1-2k or so. At least here in FL that sounds like a decent trade

Well dog-gone it, hook me up! :D I can always swap a motor! Oh wait, *and* tranny...hmmm...how mousy are those 4 cylinders again? ;)

Cheers,

[4.3LXJ]

Mousy is not the word, it is hamsters, like the ones in the cage running around in it constantly and getting nowhere. The 4 cal is very sensitive to power loss from larger tires and wind resistance from lifting. Not that it has any power to spare anyway. I should have the V8 TJ running next week. I could tempt you with a ride in that :D

[Rocco83]

I had an 02 Wrangler Sahara that my father traded for a mini van when I went to the service -.- Long story short there isn't a day I don't miss that ride. Although, I can't say I likes it more than the '63 CJ I had. TJs are still damn expensive or I might get another.

I was a little upset. I missed out on a 98 TJ already lifted with 33 Muds and 33 winter tires with hard and soft tips on Craigslist in my area for 3800. Non rusty body and 115k miles. The guy got it on a trade and was trying to flip it. I don't think he knew what he had. It didn't last 30 min on Craigslist before it was sold!

[JeepZombie]

@4.3LXJ: V8 TJ? Now that sounds crazy fun!

@Rocco83: Wow, I think is sad when a '98 anything for $3,800 is a good deal...but the tires and tops were probably worth half that to begin with...

[4.3LXJ]

Here it is Ghost

http://www.xjtalk.com/showthread.php?p=187921#post187921

[UKJeeper]

Just throwing another suggestion into the mix:


LJ.

[JeepZombie]

@UKJeeper: That would be another suggestion if it were more affordable. With a price tag difference of around $10k, I don't see an LJ as a viable option. Besides, they're outside my '97-'02 year range...

[UKJeeper]

Fair point. At least you have the chance of buying one. They were never available over here. :bang:


OTOH, at least we have diesel engine options! :D

[4.3LXJ]

Yeah, we are slow to get on the diesel engine. But to be fair, it is only recently we had small diesels that were worn putting in

[JeepZombie]

Diesels do tend to have better torque, but with the cost of diesel right now...that would make for an expensive ride...I don't see how diesel pickup drivers manage...

[4.3LXJ]

I think it about a $5K option here

[JeepZombie]

And almost $4/gal.

[4.3LXJ]

Over that here

[UKJeeper]

£1.35 a litre here. Approximately 4 litres to a gallon (.26 x 4) = £5.50 a gallon.

That's about $9.40 per gallon...

[XJ Wheeler]

Diesels generally get better mileage, so it kinda levels out or even an advantage in price, depending on the vehicle of course. Although they are more expensive with maintenance, and now you have to put additive in. :rolleyes:

[JeepZombie]

@UKJeeper: Yeah, you guys really don't catch a break on fuel prices....isn't like over half that just taxes though?