Death wobble possibiltys

[Eavn20887]

okay guys if im posting this in the wrong area please move it for me, anyway you all know im a noob to the jeep world. anywho, i purchased this jeep already lifted with the RC 4.5 lift, stock upper control arms and fixed lower arms. I have no sway bar installed at all yet. Ive installed this track bar, made sure it was tight and the hole wasnt walloed out at all. got it aligned and all my front end parts are tight. had a buddy turn the steering wheel side to side while I hold every joint in the steering to see if theres any movement and everything seems to be good!. every single thread I see on death wobble always points to the track bar and mounting bolts. so I snapped a few pics of my steering setup today for you guys so you can tell me what you think. stock pitman arm on it too. I cant seem to get a straight answer on if I should buy a dropped one or not. My other concern is I know the track bar should be somewhat hidden behind the drag link. but on mine its not at all.

Im rambling heres the pics, let me know if anything stands out to you guys that would cause death wobble.

I had a alignment done two weeks ago, new tires mounted on some 15x8 cragar v5s 33x12.5x15s the shop said everything was good they just couldnt adjust the caster. so a 70$ toe and go. the truck drives straight and smooth, I can literally drive for 50 miles and nothing will happen. then all a sudden I get horrible death wobble like 5 times within 5 miles or so. its weird

http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo236/Emixon20887/IMG_4226.jpg (http://s379.photobucket.com/user/Emixon20887/media/IMG_4226.jpg.html)

http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo236/Emixon20887/IMG_4227.jpg (http://s379.photobucket.com/user/Emixon20887/media/IMG_4227.jpg.html)

http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo236/Emixon20887/IMG_4228.jpg (http://s379.photobucket.com/user/Emixon20887/media/IMG_4228.jpg.html)

http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo236/Emixon20887/IMG_4229.jpg (http://s379.photobucket.com/user/Emixon20887/media/IMG_4229.jpg.html)

[07Negative]

How are your tires? Good shape, no cupping, tire pressure is the same at all 4 corners? Was there an alignment done?
The current geometry will cause some bump steer, but it's not as bad as others. And again. All bolts have been torqued to specs.
I personally have had DW due to poor health of tires. I think it easily gets over looked.

[Eavn20887]

Yes I agree with you too re guarding the tires, yes there brand new, and balanced. Alignment done too. How does that track bar look? Is it look like to much of a drop bracket? Or do I need a drop pitman arm? Also you thik it's worth the money to get the full adjustable control arms? And possibity th rc control arm drop bracket kit? Get the alignment done with about 7* caster .

[slvmart]

Don't forget to check your control arms and all bushings, ball joints, unit bearings and Axle shaft u-joints. You've hit most of the typical obvious suspects.

[Eavn20887]

yup ive properly check all my ball joints and u joints. jack up the front end, weight on the axle and used a pry bar under the tire very little to no movement at all in the ball joints, ive looked at the upper control arm bushings and tried to see if theres anything wrong with them and i cant tell, they look okay. and the lowers are brand new with the fixxed control arms from RC.

Im stumped.

I think today im going to drop some cash and order the upper/lower adjustable control arm kit with the drop bracket relocation kit from RC.
that way it will rule out any posssible way that my upper control arms are at fault or the alignment is not good for a lifted jeep.

How improtant is the caster angles on a lifted jeep?

[4.3LXJ]

I think the thing to do here is to have someone saw the wheel back and forth while you watch the parts in the front. I would look at that drop bracket closely. It may be moving a little due to leverage on the frame.

[Eavn20887]

already have had that done, I said that already, thing that gets me is how the track bar is completly visible. shouldnt it be hidden somewhat behind the drag link?

[4.3LXJ]

Your track bar frame mount is a bit low. The center of the bolt should be the same as the pivot point of the drag link tie rod end. That can contribute to it. But first I would check the castor angle, which can be done with a smart phone and a level app and also swap the tires front to back just to be sure you don't have a tire problem. It can happen even with new tires.

[Eavn20887]

Hmmm okay I'll download a app quick, how do I measure the caster? Set my phone on the upper ball joint?

[Eavn20887]

okay so i downloaded a level that tells me the angles too. i set the phone on the driverside upper balljoint right next to the grease fitting so it was flat on the ball joint, i got -11.4
on the pass side i got -7.9. you can actually visually see that the driverside upper balljoint is at much more of a backwards angle then the pass side. I think i need to get adjustabke control arms and set the caster asap....what you think?

[Eavn20887]

isnt the caster angle for 4.5 in lift with 33s suppose to be around 7* positive?

[4.3LXJ]

It should be around 5° positive. That is factory and where I have mine set. If you have that much negative castor it will make the front wheels want to dive to one side all the time. So my contention is that exacerbates any weakness, however slight, in the steering system. A proper castor angle makes the tires want to toe in and drive straight.

[Eavn20887]

okay so the only way to properlly fix the caster angle is either shim the control arms or get adjustable ones right?

[4.3LXJ]

With that much difference, you should look into adjustable control arms. I don't know who made your current system or how it looks. A pic of the vehicle profile would help me recommend what you need. But I am thinking you need new lower arms minimum. New uppers wouldn't hurt either since you are running stock arms. Also you might want to consider a long arm upgrade.

[Eavn20887]

Okay so I just recived my adjustable upper and lower control arms, drop pitman arm and control arm drop brackets from rough country. Does anyone one know the measurements from eye to eye I should set my control and for proper caster adjustment, at least enough so I can drive it to the shop for a alignment? I have the 4.5 inch rough country lift of that helps on 33s

[4.3LXJ]

Castor is something you adjust in. To find it, use a smart phone with a leveler app, most are free, and set it on the top of the upper ball joint. You want 5° to the rear of the vehicle

[Eavn20887]

Castor is something you adjust in. To find it, use a smart phone with a leveler app, most are free, and set it on the top of the upper ball joint. You want 5° to the rear of the vehicle

okay thankyou! my only other concern is the way the track bar and drag link are together, I did buy a drop pitman arm and will be installing it when I do the control arms and drop brackets, im hoping this will help out the death wobble issue i have :)

[grmjepr]

Does bottom trac bar bolt move? Look for wear. It might look tight bit actually not. I see it's been drilled and relocated. If that isn't perfectly snug you will get death wobble


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Eavn20887]

okay guys and gals, thanks for all the help! so I finally had time to install My rough country adjustable uca, lca's with the RC drop brackets!!!! and while i had taken off my upper control arms I noticed my upper bushings were completly toasted! so i went and bought some new ones with also a harbor freight ball joint press 70$FTW haha and now my death wobble is fully cured! also these drop brackets are awesome! made the ride incredible :) very happy with it. well anywho, I think I had made one mistake though while installing them. I looked all over the forums for the measurements with drop brackets installed to set my control arms. well needless to say I had to pull them back apart a few times to get it somewhat close and the sun was going down so i needed to get it back to gether that night. my caster angle is at about 7* which is good but my axle seems pushed to far forward now. so what im thinkin is to suck both upper and lower control arms back in maybe 3 full turns and see how it looks, can anyone point me in the right direction on what u should be looking for when i have it close. like if theres a measurement or do i just want to make sure my coil spring is straight up and down???? all the help is much appreciated! thanks!

heres a few snaps i shot....as you can see my steering system (drag link) is way to close to the steering damper mount on the axle and the sway bar link perch. it drives fine with out hitting anything but im not gonna go off road until its right. im afraid its going to bind up on something when shes all flexed out haha..

oh and yeah i know about the brake lines, im working on it haha.

http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo236/Emixon20887/IMG_4295.jpg (http://s379.photobucket.com/user/Emixon20887/media/IMG_4295.jpg.html)

http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo236/Emixon20887/IMG_4296.jpg (http://s379.photobucket.com/user/Emixon20887/media/IMG_4296.jpg.html)

http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo236/Emixon20887/IMG_4297.jpg (http://s379.photobucket.com/user/Emixon20887/media/IMG_4297.jpg.html)

http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo236/Emixon20887/IMG_4298.jpg (http://s379.photobucket.com/user/Emixon20887/media/IMG_4298.jpg.html)

http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo236/Emixon20887/IMG_4300.jpg (http://s379.photobucket.com/user/Emixon20887/media/IMG_4300.jpg.html)

[4.3LXJ]

Not very far forward as I look at the coil.

[Eavn20887]

yeah its just if you look at the tierod pic its freakin me out how close it is to the brackets on the axle.


If i try and bring it back a little bit should i just do it evenly on the top and bottom control arm?

[4.3LXJ]

Yes, you could do that. You would still be OK with 5° of castor too

[Eavn20887]

Okay cool thanks! I'll do it soon :)