Ball Joint Discussion

[Mudderoy]

Let's talk about ball joints.

Spicer seems like an easy choice but there are others!

XRF
Synergy
Moog

What are YOUR experiences?

[jimmixj]

I've used MOOG almost exclusively since 1978 (when I got my first real job as a mech) and they've always impressed me. One thing I really like about them is the Problem Solver line, where they identify weaknesses in OEM design and correct the part for service and life. So much of OEM is designed from a $$$ point of view; either by "planned obsolescence" so you'll have to buy new cars, or saving a few cents on a part because over millions of units they can increase their bottom line significantly.

[Mudderoy]

Mopar (Spicer?)

4792

Synergy

4791

[nickyg]

I put Moog on mine, mostly cause it's a fun word to say.

[oderdene]

I ordered Alloy USA 11801 Ball Joint Kit for Jeep Cherokee/Wrangler - 4 Piece : Amazon.com : Automotive@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41fRk2ehXCL.@@AMEPARAM@@41fRk2ehXCL from Amazon through ad on xjtalk, guess if they worn and have a little play, we may tighten them,

http://www.wranglerforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186952&d=1355347232

[4.3LXJ]

Now that is interesting. A ball joint you can adjust?

[oderdene]

http://remzo.wmsite.ru/_mod_files/ce_images/remont_sharovyh_opor_dzhip_kompass.jpg

Not long ago, when market was far away from us, some people do repair ball joint and tie rod as shown picture. Plastic insert usually worn, makes a play. Masters carefully remove rear part, open, disassemble, make suitable ring and bolt, weld, clean and i hope you got an idea,

Alloy usa ball joints looks like this

[EricsXJ]

I've used Moog and some off-brand (possibly Duralast?), both with good results. But that was years ago before these fancy ones came out like you guys are posting.

[07Negative]

I went with Alloy USA this time around. I was thinking synergy. But figured I'd go against the grain. I just hope the damn box doesn't say "Made in China" when it arrive!
I did choose the Alloy b/c 1) Frank. But secondly. They seem to get get less in that way like the synergy. I had taken notice of another cat installing RCV shafts and putting the knuckle on w the synergy and noticing how far it protrudes up, seemed like a pain in the ass. Though I'm sure ill find other P.I.T.A situations later.
I have read that Alloy after install, is like driving a 50's Buick w no power steering for the 1st 500 miles. Not sure why. But it seems to the general senses response.

[07Negative]

By the way. You can spend as much as $800-1,000 for some Carli ball joints or $600 with Dynatrac's. expensive as funk if you ask me. I don't even know any KOH rigs running them. Be cool to try though.

[Mudderoy]

I went with Alloy USA this time around. I was thinking synergy. But figured I'd go against the grain. I just hope the damn box doesn't say "Made in China" when it arrive!
I did choose the Alloy b/c 1) Frank. But secondly. They seem to get get less in that way like the synergy. I had taken notice of another cat installing RCV shafts and putting the knuckle on w the synergy and noticing how far it protrudes up, seemed like a pain in the ass. Though I'm sure ill find other P.I.T.A situations later.
I have read that Alloy after install, is like driving a 50's Buick w no power steering for the 1st 500 miles. Not sure why. But it seems to the general senses response.

lol I read the Synergy have a 1,000 mile break in and you have to fight the steering, but it's not that bad...

[Mudderoy]

I'm assuming that the factory ball joints are Spicer. I've been running 32 and 33" tires since 2004(?) and about 100k miles. So the factory ball joints are doing pretty good. I'm sure it's time to change them at 197k miles, but with what?

[07Negative]

If you don't offroad it much and you got decent maintained roads. Ball joints will last a while. For the past 2 years that I've been on this set of Spicer's joints. I haven't wheeled much. But our roads suck something hard. So they are toast already. I've got 4-6 wheeling trips on these. Plus a 2800 mile road trip out of them. I would suspect that rationalizing the added expense would be justified, on a set of fancy ones. But I'm about to find out. I have yet to use anything other than Spicer, whatever OEM are, and Moog. I think I'll save for a set of ridiculous $600 ball joints just to see if there is a difference. It'll be 2 years before a review.

[SteveMongr]

If Synergy has stiff steering for that 1000 mile break-in, than my stock steering box would be toast. It protested break in for the Currie steering system I installed. Time to upgrade..
I have read posts regarding XRF that there are fitment issues.

[07Negative]

I haven't read any real break in periods. But so far I'm come across folks stating that everything works out good after about 300-500 miles. You might want to consider a new or different steering pump. I already went AGR.
What's the XRF?

[EricsXJ]

I'm assuming that the factory ball joints are Spicer. I've been running 32 and 33" tires since 2004(?) and about 100k miles. So the factory ball joints are doing pretty good. I'm sure it's time to change them at 197k miles, but with what?

Do they need to be replaced? If not, I'd wait until they actually show signs of being worn. If they are still good that is pretty impressive...

[Mudderoy]

I haven't read any real break in periods. But so far I'm come across folks stating that everything works out good after about 300-500 miles. You might want to consider a new or different steering pump. I already went AGR.
What's the XRF?

Yeah maybe it was 500 miles, but still that's a couple of weeks of driving for me.

[07Negative]

I hear ya Tony. It's white knuckles driving for those 500 miles too. Well, so I've read.

[Mudderoy]

Do they need to be replaced? If not, I'd wait until they actually show signs of being worn. If they are still good that is pretty impressive...

Well I'm hearing clunking and having some wandering on uneven surfaces. I've jacked up each side and tried the wheel wiggle test, solid as a rock, so I'm not sure.

Of course the 99 was the same way with the wiggle test.

[NW99XJ]

What's the XRF?

XRF Chassis ...they make ball joints and other stuff....
ALLEGEDLY offers a "million mile warranty" as well..... not sure about all that though.
http://www.xrfchassis.com/parts-balljoints.htm
http://www.xrfchassis.com/images/XRF-balljoint2.jpg

[NW99XJ]

Ok... so now onto my own research.....
.... as I'm going to be replacing the ball joints here very soon in my 99 XJ.
(HPD30 - 1ton OTK - 33x125 on 3.5" BS)

Now before this gets too crazy, let me bring you up to speed on what I know and have read. These are just my opinions and based on the countless reviews I have read over the course of the last several weeks.

Crown (http://www.quadratec.com/products/56100_0007.htm) would be a direct OEM replacement, but I would rather not have to go thru the hassle of having to do the swap once or twice every year. I know its apples and oranges, but my Crown motor mounts didn't even last a year.
http://www.quadratec.com/Assets/Images/174924/174924-lg.jpg

Dana/Spicer (http://www.4wheelparts.com/Drivetrain-Differentials/Dana-30-44-Spicer-Replacement-Ball-Joint.aspx?t_c=12&t_s=237&t_pt=101151&t_pn=D%2FS706944X) has a good reputation as being a decent OEM replacement. But that's it... it's just "as good as" stock... no better.
http://www.4wheelparts.com/aux_incl/images.ashx?i=4WD_706944x.jpg&partNo=D/S&w=400&h=400

MOOG (http://www.moog-suspension-parts.com/default.asp?partner=gbasemoog&gclid=CJPW0bSlkr0CFY3m7AodemAA7g) used to have the same rep if not better, but recently I read that they are now made in China or were bought by a Chinese company and since then the quality has gone down hill.
http://www.moog-suspension-parts.com/prodimages/MOOG/K3134T_lg.png

XRF (http://www.xrfchassis.com/parts-balljoints.htm) look good on paper but still have composite (acetal) internals (cup) and I haven't been able to find any long time reviews on them. That and they're made in Taiwan. From my experience, Jeep parts made in Taiwan have not proven to be very durable. Now the Dodge p/u crowd really loves these, and swears by them.... they also claim to offer of "million mile warranty" ... not 100% sure about all that. Food for thought anyways.
http://www.xrfchassis.com/images/XRF-balljoint2.jpg

Synergy (http://www.synergymfg.com/Synergy-D30-D44-D50-D60-Heavy-Duty-Front-Ball-Joint-Sets-p-26182.html#.UyMUm_lSZvE) supposedly is one of the better brands, offering a more "heavy duty" option than many of the above listed. AND team NAXJA uses them in their KOH rig (or at least used to) ... yet I have still heard mixed reviews from both the XJ as well as the TJ and JK crowds on the reliability/durability of these. I have also read they have a stiff break in period, (500-1k miles) and some people have a hard time adjusting to/coping with this.
http://www.synergymfg.com/images/D/PPM-8009-12-D3-400.jpg

Falcon Steering Systems (http://www.falconsteering.com/asp/FalconHome_950_L2.asp?PID=16&Pl2ID=11) came up in my searches, but I couldn't find anyone in the Jeep world that had any reviews on them.
http://www.falconsteering.com/images/Chasis_balljoints.jpg

Dynatrac's (http://www.dynatrac.com/products/jk/dynatrac-ball-joints.html) from what I've read are by far the best money can buy, (and for $600+ they better be) ...but if memory serves me correctly, they dont make them for the D30. Not that I would drop that kind of coin on BJ's for the turdy anyways.
http://www.dynatrac.com/products/jk/images/ball-joints/balljoint_1.jpg

Mevotech (http://www.ebay.com/itm/KIT-MevoTech-Upper-Lower-Ball-Joints-Dodge-Ram-1500-4WD-/141192359284?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Year%3A1999%7CMake%3AJeep%7CModel%3ACherokee&hash=item20dfb86d74&vxp=mtr) is ones I've seen on many XJ's (distinguishable by the blue dust/grease cap) but seem like just another cheapo Chinese made set of junk. Again, I could be completely off base here, but I havent been able to find much as far as reviews on these.
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxNjAw/z/PekAAOxy4fVS~S2S/$_57.JPG

Alloy USA (http://www.alloyusa.com/) is a set that seems to be made well, and on paper, look to be superior to many of the above listed options. I have read many great reviews, and only a couple negative which consisted of getting something "bad out of the box" or getting the wrong part.... and a couple saying that they became loose over a short period of time, ... I think this was because they didnt adjust them after the break in period, or neglected the necessary maintenance..... nothing bad to say about the overall quality or durability from most people reviewing them.
http://www.4mudders.com/images/products/steering/ball-joints/bj2l.jpg


Now there's a lot that comes into play here in reviews, with a massive variance of lift, wheel and tire combos, backspacing, wheeling/driving habits and maintenance history between all of us, and those who have reviewed the above ball joints online. I know that everyone has had good results and/or bad with one manufacturer or another, and that's fine, I'm expecting my views to differ with many of your own.... that's the kind of reviews/advice I'm looking for though... what has worked well for YOU, and more importantly:
WHAT WOULD YOU CHOOSE IF YOU WERE TO DO IT AGAIN RIGHT NOW?

So far my research and what I have read is making me lean towards the Alloy USA or the Synergy ones (they have a very similar design)...
What are YOUR thoughts?

[07Negative]

You clearly have way more time on your hands than I do. Well....rather I spend way too much time on Youtube. But kick butt work on digging this up. I had all apps open on my iPhone with all these different BJ's (get your mind outa the gutter). and didn't save a damn one.
I really did let Frank at Serious OffRoad influence my choice on the Alloys. I wish I snagged em before they were $179. He had them at $149! But the fella was loosing money on em. I should have them next week. However, I wont have them installed and driven on for another month. I still have to build this insane axle first. But I'll certainly give a report on my experiences.
And Josh, I resent that "turd" comment :) I am, quite possibly, dumping a regretful amount of coin into this damn axle. I just hope I prove its merits. I do have to say though. I'm secretly disappointed I didn't just build a RuffStuff axle and go with a Strange 3rd member like everyone told me to do.

[07Negative]

As I mentioned in my imageless build thread. This is the most involved build I've done to date to any of my XJ's. And frankly the most expensive. Something I honestly have to admit to, is that I probably have no damn business building this thing due to my fiscal state of being poor.
But it's all the little bits and pieces that I didn't pay attention to before, that I now look at. Such as ball joints. I didn't compute that into the build. And I totally over looked their importance. I was far too concerned with the steering geometry and the knuckles outward, such as spindles, hubs, and shafts. But for the price of this axle. I'm learning......at the rate of a private university.

[NW99XJ]

You clearly have way more time on your hands than I do. Well....rather I spend way too much time on Youtube. But kick butt work on digging this up. I had all apps open on my iPhone with all these different BJ's (get your mind outa the gutter). and didn't save a damn one.
I really did let Frank at Serious OffRoad influence my choice on the Alloys. I wish I snagged em before they were $179. He had them at $149! But the fella was loosing money on em. I should have them next week. However, I wont have them installed and driven on for another month. I still have to build this insane axle first. But I'll certainly give a report on my experiences.
And Josh, I resent that "turd" comment :) I am, quite possibly, dumping a regretful amount of coin into this damn axle. I just hope I prove its merits. I do have to say though. I'm secretly disappointed I didn't just build a RuffStuff axle and go with a Strange 3rd member like everyone told me to do.
Thanks for the kind words Deejay. I do this sort of stuff to not only help myself in trying to make a better informed decision, (and since I'm indecisive by nature, I need all the help I can get...) ...but to also help others in the future as they come across the same issues, etc. I remember what it was like in the beginning, new to jeeps, not really knowing all the little particular things that make a world of difference in selecting parts... It is my hopes that these kinds of pasts/threads live on and can help others.

Now as to my own "turdy" ... I too have invested money into it, and am planning continuing to do so. :crazy:
When I do my ball joint swap the axle will be fairly torn down on the ends, so I plan to take advantage of this, and weld some gussets onto the "C's" and reinforce the long side of the axle tube.
I also plan on boxing in the bend-prone upper control arm mount as well.... there may be more, but for now, I'd say that will add a significant amount of strength and sexiness to the beloved Dana 30.

[4.3LXJ]

If it is any consolation to you guys, we will probably invest at least a little in the turdy on Project TJ Resurrection. If not on that, the turdy in his YJ then. Would like to just throw in a D44 but they are getting harder to source and even then, brake issues would come up. So, six of one, half dozen of the other.

[Mudderoy]

I went with the Synergy ball joints.

5046

Does anyone know if you can use regular grease in these?

Synergy recommends, not surprisingly there stuff...

Synergy High Performance Chassis & Bearing Grease

At $62.50 each I don't want to install them with the wrong stuff.

[NW99XJ]

I haven't heard the need to use any special grease in those or any other ball joint....
If those were to be installed and taken to a shop 30k miles later.... I bet said shop would just throw regular grease in them... that had to have been takin into consideration when they designed 'em.

[4.3LXJ]

To the best of my knowledge you only have to use synthetic grease with Poly Bushings

[NW99XJ]

Yea and I dont think there is any poly on the inside of those... although I could be mistaken.