Hayden dual electric radiator fan

[Infidel Edition]

Just picked up a Hayden 1600cfm fan for $125 (after military disco and had store credit of $75... so $50 out of pocket)
Measures 25.5"*13.5"*2.5"
As close to a perfect fit as I could find... no extra modding needed
4617

...will put it in when I replace the exhaust man

[NW99XJ]

Where did you get that from?

[4.3LXJ]

Just a small heads up on electric fans. Those look nice, but if that is 1600 total, that is 200 cfm less than the mechanical fan. You need 1800 plus 1100 on the electric aux fan for a total of 3000 cfm to equal stock. Very few fans will give you that.

[Infidel Edition]

Where did you get that from?

O'Reilly auto
but not what they record mend for the xj's...
the recommended for DJ's won't fit??
I found it online and asked by part #

[Infidel Edition]

Just a small heads up on electric fans. Those look nice, but if that is 1600 total, that is 200 cfm less than the mechanical fan. You need 1800 plus 1100 on the electric aux fan for a total of 3000 cfm to equal stock. Very few fans will give you that.

that was a concern, but I mostly do highway travel... so I'll get a lot of air flow naturally
plus, I've pulled my AC radiator and have room to add a 'booster' fan down the road if needed.
this 1 has reversable blades... but will be a 'Pull' ~ engine side and
I have enough room to add a 'Push' (grill side) that can bump the cfm another 1000 cfm.

I can also split them and 1 push / 1 pull and retain my aux fan.
... the aux fan was only on tow package and AC edition ~ thus not part of the stock requirements for cfm---if there isn't AC any longer??

?...........?..............
plus to installed, I only need to unbolt the much fan as this is only 2.5" thick ~ so I can undo just as easily

[4.3LXJ]

To my knowledge they all had them

[Infidel Edition]

I'll give it a try and see how it does on road trips...and post updates as I go.
..........
as it is thin enough, I won't need to do anything more than unbolt the mech fan / thus, it'll be easy to put it back if needed

[bad luck]

Just a small heads up on electric fans. Those look nice, but if that is 1600 total, that is 200 cfm less than the mechanical fan. You need 1800 plus 1100 on the electric aux fan for a total of 3000 cfm to equal stock. Very few fans will give you that.

I don't understand why so many people want to run all electric fans. I can't see any advantage over the stock set up either. Maybe if you drive through rivers a lot, it would be nice to switch off the fans. But I don't think you gain any mpg either. Could you please educate me on the reasoning for this. But regardless I hope the fans work out for you.

[Infidel Edition]

I don't understand why so many people want to run all electric fans. I can't see any advantage over the stock set up either. Maybe if you drive through rivers a lot, it would be nice to switch off the fans. But I don't think you gain any mpg either. Could you please educate me on the reasoning for this. But regardless I hope the fans work out for you.

the theory (physics myth) is that by reducing the pull on the engine associated with the mech fan = 5 - 7 Lbs of pull @ idle, you will gain an extra 3 - 6 horses or an extra couple miles per gal.
I say 'myth' because there are as many people that say it works as those that say it doesn't.

Which is about the same as the #'s on people that say running the ac does / doesn't effect mpg over the drag caused by opening the windows.
* I pulled my broken ac pump and replaced with a free wheel pully months ago.

I drive in sub 20° areas during the winter and even with a sheet of cardboard over the grill generally don't get up to temp.
so the electric fan can be shut off as well as the card board.
but, if the extra % of mpg is there... I'll take it too.

Not saying it does or doesn't...
Rather, that I'm willing to check it out.
...and if it has NO effect, I'll put the mech fan back and sell the electric fan on eBay...

either way, I'll post what I find ~ no harm / no foul

[4.3LXJ]

There are a couple of advantages to an electric fan. One mentioned is fording if you have a kill switch to shut it off. The other is full cooling at idle, a helpful thing wheeling at crawl speeds in hot weather, which I do a lot. But my fans are rated at 3800 cfm and aux at 2200 cfm. Needs a healthy alternator for that though

[Infidel Edition]

There are a couple of advantages to an electric fan. One mentioned is fording if you have a kill switch to shut it off. The other is full cooling at idle, a helpful thing wheeling at crawl speeds in hot weather, which I do a lot. But my fans are rated at 3800 cfm and aux at 2200 cfm. Needs a healthy alternator for that though

did you do the Taurus fan?
or go with an after market (if so, what did you go with)?
...also, do you have them set to switch off/on by temp?
or simply when the engine is on?

I'm thinking of pulling a temp switch off a Mazda (I think the sensor is the right thread size) that turns the fan on when the rad temp is over 155° regardless of the engine being on.
~ that way, when I do get stuck sitting on a highway parking lot, I can shut off the engine and the fan will still work on cooling down the radiator ... so when I start it back up, it won't be hotter than when I turned it off

[4.3LXJ]

I have two fans. Taurus fan and a Derale 11" fan. Taurus fan is on a temp switch. 200° on and 190° off. Derale is on a switch, but both come on with AC and both will go off with the fording switch

[Infidel Edition]

spoke to the Hayden rep ~ his advice was go with a higher flow main fan and the aux fan.
and that the push pull doesn't work in tandem. so an 800 cfm push on an 800 cfm pull will only yield 900 - 1400 cfm in total depending on various factors...

I'm returning the dual Hayden fans for a single 1,800 cfm 14" fan and thermal control and an 8" 1,700 cfm fan.
with both fans running, I'll be pulling over 3,000 cfm's at 12 amps. = non issue for my high output alt.

the 14" is only 3.5" thick and I should be able to mount it in the stock main shroud and the 8" is roughly 3" and I'm gonna work that into the aux fan shroud.

I picked up a '97 water inlet and will mount the thermal switch for the main fan there.
and will use the current sensor in the radiator for the other fan.
the switch should turn on at 180° and off at 165°...

this weekend I'm gonna do the exhaust man (to deal with my error) and the weekend after is a yellow ribbon (predeployment) event.
so I'll do an MPG test with the mech fan @ 65 MPH for 50 miles... then with the elec. fan on the same route and speed...
and I'll post what I find

[NW99XJ]

....this weekend I'm gonna do the exhaust man (to deal with my error) and the weekend after is a yellow ribbon (predeployment) event.
so I'll do an MPG test with the mech fan @ 65 MPH for 50 miles... then with the elec. fan on the same route and speed...
and I'll post what I find
VERY MUCH Looking forward to this report!

[Infidel Edition]

The Plan ~ test E.Fan vs. Mech Fan for cooling and MPG

Parts:

Mr. Gasket – 1987 = $95.97
~14” Fan (1800 CFM @ 10.3 amps)
~14.75” x 14” x 3.5”

CFR Performance 8” = $38.99 *had on hand from another vehicle project
~8” Fan (1700 CFM @ 2.8 amps)
~9” x 9” x 2.5”

‘95+ Thermostat Housing = $8.67
~Newer housing has spot for thermal switch to bolt in

3 way Thermal Fan Switch = $40
~Main fan On – 185* / off - 167
~Aux fan On - 205* / off - 197*

Radiator Fan Shroud = $9.48
~Never had one… Damn PO!
+ mod to fit 14” fan above

Current Aux Fan Shroud (have on hand)
+ mod to fit 8” fan above

Electric fan conversion total: $194
~New rated CFM: 3,500
~Change in MPG: TBD??

------------

- return ……….. $125 for Hayden 3800
+ 14” fan ……... $ 96
+ switch ………. $ 40
& housing …... $ 10
TOTAL COST: $ 25 more than yesterday!

[4.3LXJ]

That seems awful low for current draw on that small fan. Seems like it should be higher

[Infidel Edition]

that's per the site ...
http://www.cfrperformance.com/mobile/Product.aspx?ProductCode=HZ-1001-8

well, this site says 3 amps.
I swear amazon had 2.5....

[Infidel Edition]

... with a good mod, that'd be a great triple fan system.
under 10 amps to pass 3*1700 = 5,100 CFM's!

and as a push, you could add a $h!+ton of room on the engine side
but that small with that flow has to be noisy

[Pookapotamus]

I went with the FF Dynamics triple fan set up can't remember the cfm or amps but it seems to work great and does not take up much space. http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/26/utavy4en.jpg

[Infidel Edition]

I went with the FF Dynamics triple fan set up can't remember the cfm or amps but it seems to work great and does not take up much space. http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/26/utavy4en.jpg

I'm guessing those are about 9" - 10" ea.
do they all kick on at the same time?
...and are they noisy?

[Infidel Edition]

just googled it
3,300 cfm combined at 5 amps per fan

http://www.ffdynamics.com/extremecherokeeB.html

[Pookapotamus]

I believe 10", you can set them to turn on 1,2 or 3, I have it set that the outside 2 turn on to cool and all 3 when the a/c is on. They are fairly quiet a little whiney but nothing to complain about.

[Infidel Edition]

Got a bad sensor from Summit... so the fan kicks on, but doesn't turn off.
New sensor in route.
Hoping to get everything plugged in on Friady = mileage check this weekend.

That said, I did drive it a couple times to watch the temps and get the "on" setting right = will have to do over!
...and it feels slightly more responsive.

HOWEVER, when my 4 year old niece got new shoes, she told me they made her "FASTER"... could be the same brain twist with the fan. :drinking:

[Infidel Edition]

Summit is sending me the replacement fan control ~
Otherwise, here's where I'm at:

Stock Fan Shroud ~
4846

Amazon.com: 14" High Performance Electric Radiator Cooling Fan - Curved Blade: Automotive@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51%2Bw7Vm0SSL.@@AMEPARAM@@51%2Bw7Vm0SSL

$55 14” High Performance Radiator Cooling Fan (CFR Performance)
14” x 14-5/8” x 3-1/2”
2800 CFM kicks on = 195 +/- @ water inlet sensor


4847

Current Auxiliary Fan = just using the shroud housing = perfect size match

4848

10" High Performance Electric Radiator Cooling Fan - Curved Blade : Amazon.com : Automotive@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51%2Bw7Vm0SSL.@@AMEPARAM@@51%2Bw7Vm0SSL

$45 10” High Performance Electric Radiator Cooling Fan (CFR Performance)
11-1/4” x 10-5/8” x 2-1/2”
1800 CFM kicks on = 210 +/- @ radiator sensor

* Both sensors are adjusted to dash gauge temp… may not be actual water temp.


4849

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DER-16749
$40 to run primary fan W/ adjustable thermal switch 150 / 240 (Derale)
3/8-18 NPT threaded sensor

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php?carcode=1180314&parttype=10337
Dorman Thermostat Housing w/ Gasket $9 from RockAuto

4850

And no pic. of Hayden Radiator Probe switch... but that'll control the Aux Fan

[bad luck]

I am looking forward to see how this setup works for you, I hope it works well.And I'm also curious to see if it will help on your fuel mileage.

[Infidel Edition]

Mileage actually was 2 MPG lower than the initial...
Guessing due to the difference in fill-up person / and only driving 80 miles in total.

I drive 400+ mi. next weekend for drill ~ I'll see how that compares to previous MPG's I've tracked and post in a couple weeks.

[OneArmArrowSlinger]

Great thread, I like the methodical approach you're taking so the rest of us dont:D Good work, looking forward to more info, I'd like to do this to mine next winter.

[Infidel Edition]

There's no joy in Muddville...

So, I hadn't taken into account some of the OTHER changes that I had made pre-electric fan and how they'd effect the MPG.
* specifically = my spedo is off by a good amount because of bigger tires.
... I knew this when I drove the "with fan" round trip / and used GPS for the distance. But I failed to take into account the fact that I was driving much faster than I though ~ which as I've posted before = more consumption per mile.
60 MPH was the sweet spot before when I was hitting 25+ MPG.

That + the potential for differences in fill up (OR = we don't get to fill our own tank :crazy: ) mean I don't know for sure if it was topped to the same point each time????? means, I can't rely on just those 2 trips.
... especially since the second trip without the fan was 2 MPG lower than with the fan :headbag:

And on my 600 mile round trip ~ I got pulled over for speeding :sad0147: but no ticket since I thought I was doing 60 (in a 55), but the cop tagged me over 70 :smiley-scared003:
...and let me off with a warning about how bigger tires... :bacondance:

My actual MPG for the trip was just over 22.
However, due to the bigger tire size and 3.07 diff, I found myself downshifting WAY more on the pass than previously. And I'm not really sure I was keeping it at 60 or if it was more 65'ish.

:crazy: and in my brain, conceivably, by fixing EVERY SENSOR under the hood and the computer ... since the good ol' 25+ MPG days, I may have fixed something that was causing better MPG by reducing :flameon: actual flows??

:smiley-chores003: Unfortunately, I can't say if the fan had any effect on the MPG.

Changes since 25+ include new:
ALL sensors have now been replaced
computer
Head and valves
Oil Pump
4.5" lift
30" tires (were stock 27" +/-)
water pump and all pullies
pulled the AC compressor
replaced the entire exhaust system
cut my finger on something sharp X a million!
plugs & wires & distributor cap...
...and more that I'm sure I'm forgetting...

[Cjsmithfl]

Very interesting, I like the fan setup. I currently experience higher temps when I get off the high way after about a one hour drive everyday and I'm looking to render this problem. However I believe my problem is the fan clutch. I noticed since my lift and tires my speedo is off by about 5mph at 65 on the dash. So at 65 mph I'm actually doing 70. Interesting reading about the same stuff I've been tinkering with. I also have 3.07 gears but I'm running 32"x11.50 tires I'm figuring my mpg is around 18-19 if I drive it easy and do 65mph (gps speed).

[bluedragon436]

I went with the FF Dynamics triple fan set up can't remember the cfm or amps but it seems to work great and does not take up much space. http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/26/utavy4en.jpg

Not to thread jack.. But I think I'll be looking at this FF Dynamics setup for my XJ as well.. Just need to make sure I can install a manual override switch to turn them off when fording or playing in mud out on the trails!!

[Pookapotamus]

You can and it is easy, have one on mine! Plus did a full on switch for full cooling when needed.

[bluedragon436]

Is it fairly easy to throw in a kill switch to that setup Dana?? I'm looking at the Extreme TT kit they have, as I figure might as well spend a couple more bucks now to get the full on setup all at once...

[Infidel Edition]

Is it fairly easy to throw in a kill switch to that setup Dana?? I'm looking at the Extreme TT kit they have, as I figure might as well spend a couple more bucks now to get the full on setup all at once...

Kill switch is super easy. Just add it between the fan and the mechanism that kicks the fan on. Or in my case, the switch is on the ground side... with a relay. So, between the relay and the switch side of the relays ground (not the fan power side, but the relay switch)...

Not sure what the cost of that pre-assembled kit is... vs. the fans I found (the link is earlier in the thread) are $35 - $55 a piece and the thermal switch can run 1, 2, or all 3 (they're slightly lower AMPs). So a set up with 3 fans running on an adjustable thermal switch would run under $200 including some sheet aluminum for mounting. * I mounted mine in the stock aux fan housing and the stock fan shroud.
Obviously, that's only 2 fans though.

[4.3LXJ]

My kill switch is in the ground wire for the relay coil. Switch off, no operation of the relays. Switch on, all other controls work normally

[Infidel Edition]

My kill switch is in the ground wire for the relay coil. Switch off, no operation of the relays. Switch on, all other controls work normally

That's what I was trying to say... but when typing on my phone, not so easy

[Pookapotamus]

Can't remember exactly what I paid for the kit, I think it was something like $250, plus shipping and brokerage to canada.

[Rocco83]

I'm sill confused on the having someone pump your gas part. I thought that went out of style a long time ago. I haven't seen that in ages. Not a fan of someone else putting anything into my vehicle.

[4.3LXJ]

The last time I was in OR, you couldn't by law pump your own gas

[Rocco83]

Is that a law to create more jobs, as a safety precaution, or just the government being the government and causing unnecessary steps to make easy tasks more complex. I can only assume it leads to higher gas costs.

What about putting in fuel additives, and so they stop pumping at the click or when it is full full?

Too much to happen when someone else does it.

[4.3LXJ]

The government argument is a safety factor. As far as gas costs, they are much cheaper there than in CA where I live.

[Infidel Edition]

I'm sill confused on the having someone pump your gas part. I thought that went out of style a long time ago. I haven't seen that in ages. Not a fan of someone else putting anything into my vehicle.

I was referring to the difference between full from 1 pump jocky to another.
If I could pump it, I could fully top it to the same point each time.

[Rocco83]

Yea I just didn't realize that in some places it was illegal to pump your own gas.

[XJ Wheeler]

Yea I just didn't realize that in some places it was illegal to pump your own gas.

I was shocked too when we went there. Being very careful about vehicles and protective over mine i don't like it at all. At least give the choice. Most probably would choose full service anyway.

Plus i don't like someone taking my card where i can't see. Seems like an opportunity for stealing card numbers.

Sent via messenger pigeon - i talk, he types.

[Infidel Edition]

I think New Jersey is the same = but they claim its a safety issue.
Though I've heard similar claims here.

[TheWeiss]

Yeah. In Dirty Jerz you have to let them pump your gas. The bright side is that gas is subsidized in New Jersey so its cheaper. Unfortunately for me, I don't have a functioning gas gauge so I have to track things by the odometer. Knowing that different gas pumps click off at wildly different amounts of gas (i.e. sometimes it clicks when I'm 5 gallons from full... if its a strong pump) this makes me paranoid and I usually end up filling up again in PA after 100 miles or so.

Regarding the fans. I did a similar setup to the triple red FF fans but from a different company and without a shroud. They mounted through the radiator with zip-tie ish things. The fans they supplied me with (which look like the exact same ones) suck and I've gone through 4 or 5 replacements. I hooked mine up to run the first one (passenger side) first and the second 2 second (middle and driver's side). When the fans are all working the setup is great. I have a 3 core rad (which needs more CFM), the AC condenser, and an oil cooler in front of both. The power draw isn't noticeable from the dash gauge, so you can't tell when they are running by looking at the power gauge. I can see a difference on the power gauge when I put down a window so it picks up fairly small pulls.

In terms of mileage, due to the clutch on the clutch fan the difference is much more noticeable in fuel consumption in city driving. Highway driving you won't see much of a difference.

Switches: In addition to a kill switch I also recommend and "always on switch". You can do this with a 3 stage switch to minimize switch real estate. This is an especially good thing to have if your temp sensor is the "fit-between-your-rad-fins type" because there is a lag between the engine heating up and the fans turning on. It's also good to cool things down if you know you're about to really heat things up under the hood or you want to dry things out quickly after a fording.

Finally, if you're concerned about heat (who isn't) I've been really pleased with a high flow waterpump that I picked up from Quadratec.