Newbie to the Jeep World

[JeepZombie]

Howdy! First of all, I'm new to the forum, but I'm also new to Jeeps. Most of my life I've worked with muscle cars and occasionally tuners, but this is a first for me.

A little about myself and my Jeep:

As I said above, I'm a car guy, but my focus has been on muscle cars and the occasional tuner. This is my first journey into Jeeps. So far, I got to say I'm really loving it, even though I've not taken any extreme off road trails or anything like that.

I've run it off road a bit, taken it through mud puddles that would have stopped one of my old cars in their tracks, but nothing major like rock climbing or anything of the sort. (Although I did have fun climbing a really steep graded dirt hill!)

So, I love driving. That's a given. And although I'm new to Jeeps, I'm slowly learning you can go places you'd never consider taking a car - and I'm really digging that.

I also love computers, gaming, music (I enjoy some decent sound with a Kenwood unit in my Jeep - Love the USB plug-in!) and in general, I'm a geek when it comes to electrical and some mechanical things.

I studied mechanics right out of high school, but I got bored and moved onto other things. So although I have decent skills with classic cars, newer vehicles still confuse the heck out of me (too much emission control BS!)

Anyhow, I went through a divorce awhile ago and the ex got the car (Chrysler Sebring, she can keep it - never did care for Sebrings.) and a buddy of mine had a Jeep for sale.

Enter, Butch - The 1993 Jeep Cherokee Sport.

Butchie got a lift job several years ago, 3" in the front (suspension lift) and just longer shocks in the back (which made no sense to me at all, but I am new to the whole Jeep/Lifted vehicle scene, so okay). So the Jeep sat at 3" front and about 2" in the rear because of this.

Now, I got it in my head somehow that it was a 6" lift (I still swear that's what they originally told me, but my memory sucks, so it may have been just me wanting to hear 6" over 3" - size matters in some things, right?) and I get a bee in my bonnet that I needed to level the Jeep out - I was sick of seeing it sag in the back.

Well, lo' and behold, the rear leafs died after the rear shocks blew out (One tends to follow the other, I've noticed) and so I replaced the rear shocks with Skyjacker 6" lift shocks (Which I found have enough travel to go from practically STOCK height to about 6" lift) and I then get a set of 5.5" lifted Skyjacker leaf springs.

Well, needless to say, the lift was pretty obviously out of whack. My Jeep's rear was sticking way up in the air, and I was getting a nasty vibration. So, contacting the former owners, I get verification that no, 6" would not work, it's only got a 3" lift.

So I found another set of leaf springs that are 3" lift, put them on, and all is well and good with my Jeep's level.

While those got put on, the mechanic found the front "universal joints"??? (Looked like sleeve bearings along the axle shaft to me, but what do I know?) were horribly worn and about to grenade, so those got replaced as well.

The vibration has reduced a great deal, but there's still some left, and I fear the only way to remove it is to either lower the rear back to stock or start learning how to do things properly and move forward.

As this is going to be my project over the next several years, I figured I should probably join a forum where people with far more experience than I have, might be able to guide me in the right direction and help me avoid those nasty ruts that just might take out my suspension. ;)

Now, the mechanic said there was also a slight vibrational chatter if you let off the throttle at just the right sweet spot (where it's neither decelerating nor accelerating) and he believes this is from the transfer case and it may just be the belt needs adjusting.

Which is all Greek to me. I've never seen nor torn apart a transfer case.

On a side note, I *had* a Chilton's Repair Manual for my Jeep - Right up until I found that there must be a hole in the bottom of the passenger side floor...because the book was laying on the carpet and now it is a lump of pulp...soaked from cover to cover. *sigh*

So, I'll also be hunting for a good repair manual or three.

Anyhow, that's a little about me and a lot about my Jeep.

Cheers,
JeepZombie

[graverobberjk]

welcome to the Jeeper life!! Jeeping is the art of getting dirty and going broke while slowly heading nowhere and taking all day to do it lol

[JeepZombie]

welcome to the Jeeper life!! Jeeping is the art of getting dirty and going broke while slowly heading nowhere and taking all day to do it lol

Yes, but it's so much fun getting there! ;)

Thanks for the welcome, much appreciated! I'm hoping to learn a lot here. Part of me honestly wishes I had a stock Jeep to start off with, instead of one that's been modded by someone else. I feel like I'm having to play a lot of catchup just to understand what THEY did, if it was the right thing to do and if not, what I can do to fix it. Kinda feels something like... :bang:

Anyhow, thanks again for the warm welcome! :)

[graverobberjk]

you are in the right place to learn...this site has some of the best jeep minds there are...all skill levels and models, there are some rowdy JK owners learking around here if you ever want to turn to the dark side lol

[4.3LXJ]

Welcome to the forum. Which issue do you want to address first? The driveline vibration?

[Brasscatz]

Hello and welcome! I wouldn't worry too much about having a Jeep that's been started by somebody else. Do you still have those 6" leafs? I'd slap them back in, get 6" coils up front, get a slip yoke eliminator and some longer brake lines and have a blast! There's a few other things that you'll probably want, but I can promise you that Jeeps are a sickness... and there's no cure ;)

[Brasscatz]

4.3LXJ can help you sort out the technical driveline vibes, he's one of our site gurus, but I can tell you that when I had some it turned out to be my front drive shaft needing to be rebuilt. Swapped in a new one from the junk yard, and have my old one for a spare. Cured my vibes right up. There is a chain in the transfer case that could be loose, but I have a feeling that's not your culprit.

[JeepZombie]

Welcome to the forum. Which issue do you want to address first? The driveline vibration?

Well, to be honest I have a laundry list of issues with this jeep, most of them being of the minor/annoyance/experimental things - but that vibration, although minor, does give me concern.

From a mechanical perspective, I'd call that my #1 priority, so yes - definitely the driveline vibration. The mechanic who was replacing the leafs for me said he thought it was in the transfer case.

And I do know that as it has lowered, the vibration has reduced. However, I can't afford to slap on stock leafs and find out of it goes away entirely! So, any advice will be greatly welcomed!

-JeepZombie

[cantab27]

drop ya front drive shaft and go for a skid ....if vibration gone that's what it will be ,,,,,,vibration under power or there all the time ???and welcome dude lovin the user name

[JeepZombie]

drop ya front drive shaft and go for a skid ....if vibration gone that's what it will be ,,,,,,vibration under power or there all the time ???and welcome dude lovin the user name

The vibration is primarily while under power. There is also a high speed rattle/clatter noise that can be heard if you hit the "sweet spot" on the accelerator where you're neither accelerating nor decelerating, like on level ground or a slight down grade.

The main vibration hits around 20-25mph at which point it feels almost as bad as having a diesel under the hood. Beyond 25mph it starts to fade and is almost non-existant after 40mph.

Thanks for the compliment on the username, it's actually part of my project idea - I want to turn the Jeep into a stylish "Zombie Apocalypse" rescue vehicle. Although for a paint job, I'm considering an ice-based camo (Think white and very pale blues/grays)

Cheers,
JeepZombie

[4.3LXJ]

Time to check those U joints then. When they start to go, then you will feel a vibration under power only

[JeepZombie]

Time to check those U joints then. When they start to go, then you will feel a vibration under power only

First thing I checked was the U joints - they're snug and smooth rolling. No binding, no slack. In fact, I was certain it was the U joints originally myself and I didn't accept that they were fine until I crawled under with him and saw for myself.

My best guess for the rattle/clack in the sweet spot is the mysterious chain they keep referring to in the transfer case. Having never touched one, I have no clue what's in there or what the process would be to work on it.

Thinking about it however, we checked the rear U joint and never checked the front...could be the front is the cause of the vibration, but...correct me if I'm wrong, I'm working under the assumption that a Jeep is similar to a standard car or truck - if the U joint was the culprit, shouldn't I be hearing a nice delayed CLANK! when dropping it into gear?

Even in 4wd this Jeep shifts in and out of gear without a sound - no clanks no clunks, no delays.

Cheers,
JeepZombie

[Firemanray]

Welcome! I too am a gearhead crossover. You'll find these tough little suckers are for for giving and easier to work on than most muscle cars. Also it takes less $$$ to build a capable machine than a muscle car. Enjoy!!!

[Brasscatz]

shouldn't I be hearing a nice delayed CLANK! when dropping it into gear?

Even in 4wd this Jeep shifts in and out of gear without a sound - no clanks no clunks, no delays.

Cheers,
JeepZombie

usually yes, but not always the case. It won't hurt anything to replace the chain in the transfer case. In fact if it's not the culprit, you can consider it a precautionary repair because it will eventually go slack on you.

[Brasscatz]

There's a lot of u-joints on these jeeps lol. You've got axle shaft u-joints, front drive shaft u-joints, rear drive shaft u-joints.

[Brasscatz]

Your tires could also cause you vibes at certain speeds too. They could be worn in a weird way or could be out of balance. But you did say that the vibes calmed down a bit after you lowered it back down, so that makes me lean towards your driveline angle. Previous owner could've messed with it whether he added shims, dropped the transfer case, etc. I wouldn't think you'd have vibes on a sagging 3" lift in the back and stock pinion angles

[4.3LXJ]

First thing I checked was the U joints - they're snug and smooth rolling. No binding, no slack. In fact, I was certain it was the U joints originally myself and I didn't accept that they were fine until I crawled under with him and saw for myself.

My best guess for the rattle/clack in the sweet spot is the mysterious chain they keep referring to in the transfer case. Having never touched one, I have no clue what's in there or what the process would be to work on it.

Thinking about it however, we checked the rear U joint and never checked the front...could be the front is the cause of the vibration, but...correct me if I'm wrong, I'm working under the assumption that a Jeep is similar to a standard car or truck - if the U joint was the culprit, shouldn't I be hearing a nice delayed CLANK! when dropping it into gear?

Even in 4wd this Jeep shifts in and out of gear without a sound - no clanks no clunks, no delays.

Cheers,
JeepZombie

OK, The next thing to check is driveline angles. I have a thread on the forum in the tech section called "How to set driveline pinion angles" It will explain how to do it step by step

[JeepZombie]

Welcome! I too am a gearhead crossover. You'll find these tough little suckers are for for giving and easier to work on than most muscle cars. Also it takes less $$$ to build a capable machine than a muscle car. Enjoy!!!

I've already noticed they're a lot easier to crawl under! :D Although I don't know about it being cheaper - I about choked when I heard a rebuilt transfer case would run about $1,500 for my Jeep and front and rear axle replacement would be around $5k for both. But then again, with a little know-how (which is why I joined this site) this project might become a lot less expensive. :) I sure hope so!


usually yes, but not always the case. It won't hurt anything to replace the chain in the transfer case. In fact if it's not the culprit, you can consider it a precautionary repair because it will eventually go slack on you.

That's what it sounds like! I've been trying to come up with something to compare it to - it sounds like a loose timing chain when you hit that "sweet spot" on the accelerator. Now the real questions are - just how hard is it to replace one, how expensive are the chains, is it safe to keep driving as it for awhile until I can afford it and is there anything else that I should look at doing while I have the transfer case apart?


Your tires could also cause you vibes at certain speeds too. They could be worn in a weird way or could be out of balance. But you did say that the vibes calmed down a bit after you lowered it back down, so that makes me lean towards your driveline angle. Previous owner could've messed with it whether he added shims, dropped the transfer case, etc. I wouldn't think you'd have vibes on a sagging 3" lift in the back and stock pinion angles

Tires are new, alignment is done, new stabilizer on the front end and this is definitely not a tire shimmy. So, driveline angle...first, the jeep was mistakenly raised up in the back over the 3" level due to misinformation. The shop that did it had a lot of lazy people there who just don't care about such things and they just slapped the leafs on and didn't bother to note the misalignment.

Because of the lateness of the hour, I had to drive it home like that and the vibration was 3x worse. I also had to make a 150 mile trip the very next day and since that's my only vehicle, I had to risk it. When I got to my destination, that's when I ordered 3" lifted rear leaf springs and had them put in.

The leaf springs have a shim on them, tilting the axle upwards slightly. The 6" leaf springs also had a shim on them.


OK, The next thing to check is driveline angles. I have a thread on the forum in the tech section called "How to set driveline pinion angles" It will explain how to do it step by step

Looks like I'll have some reading to do - and some work to be done on the Jeep when the weather clears up a bit out this way.

Thanks to all of you for your helpful tips, ideas and information. I couldn't ask for a better welcome!

[EekGirl96]

Im always late to the game...

but, glad to have ya aboard!!! Youll find plenty of knowledgeable folks here (as you can already see lol).

[abebehrmann]

I've already noticed they're a lot easier to crawl under! :D Although I don't know about it being cheaper - I about choked when I heard a rebuilt transfer case would run about $1,500 for my Jeep and front and rear axle replacement would be around $5k for both. But then again, with a little know-how (which is why I joined this site) this project might become a lot less expensive. :) I sure hope so!

I think it can be as expensive as you want to make it. For a little extra effort and a little know-how (which a lot of members on here are glad to give) you can build it up pretty good on a budget.
You COULD buy a brand new rebuilt transfer case from Quadratec for $1500 OR you could get a $200 TC from the junkyard and rebuild it yourself for another $100 (if it even needs to be rebuilt).
Also, you COULD buy brand new already built axles for $5K OR you could go back to the junkyard and find a 70's F150 or a Full-Size Wagoneer or the rear 8.8 from an Explorer and pull those axles for $100 a piece, modify them a bit, and build them up exactly as you would like them.

If you can't tell, I LOVE the junkyard!:D
-Abe

[Firemanray]

I've already noticed they're a lot easier to crawl under! :D Although I don't know about it being cheaper - I about choked when I heard a rebuilt transfer case would run about $1,500 for my Jeep and front and rear axle replacement would be around $5k for both. But then again, with a little know-how (which is why I joined this site) this project might become a lot less expensive. :) I sure hope so!


Oh no!!! Never pay those kind of prices, find you a pick-a-part yard or something and pay pennies on the dollar for your stuff. You can find complete Xj's on Craigslist for under $2k and use them for parts. I found a set of axles with 4:10 gears at the p-a-p in Houston for around $350.00 for the set. I didn't have time to get them but they are out there if you search.

[JeepZombie]

I think it can be as expensive as you want to make it. For a little extra effort and a little know-how (which a lot of members on here are glad to give) you can build it up pretty good on a budget.

If you can't tell, I LOVE the junkyard!:D
-Abe

I love junkyards too! Only problem is, where I'm at, there aren't a lot of decent ones around. But I'm still hunting. :) That's a good tip about the TC and the axles (Not that I need axles, it was just something I was curious how much they ran...)


Oh no!!! Never pay those kind of prices, find you a pick-a-part yard or something and pay pennies on the dollar for your stuff. You can find complete Xj's on Craigslist for under 2k and use them for parts. I found a set of axles with 4:10 gears at the p-a-p in Houston for around 350.00 for the set. I didn't have time to get them but they are out there if you search.

Yeah, I'm going to definitely starting hunting junkyards and craigslist...

Wait, was I being redundant there? :D


Im always late to the game...

but, glad to have ya aboard!!! Youll find plenty of knowledgeable folks here (as you can already see lol).

Thank you much! Yes, I have noticed, some really fantastic people here, present company included, I'm sure. :)

Cheers,
JeepZombie

[Brasscatz]

Take a look on Facebook. In Texas, we have a Texas Jeep Parts For Sale page and there's tons of people posting parts for sale every day. Usually, the prices are decent but not always. They may have something like that in Virginia for ya. If not, you might be able to create one ;)

[JeepZombie]

Take a look on Facebook. In Texas, we have a Texas Jeep Parts For Sale page and there's tons of people posting parts for sale every day. Usually, the prices are decent but not always. They may have something like that in Virginia for ya. If not, you might be able to create one ;)

I can't stand Facebook, but I suppose for my Jeep I might suffer through it. :D

Any suggestions on where I can find a factory service manual for my '93 XJ? I've been looking around online and everything I've found is either highly questionable or $100+ to pick up...or both!

Cheers,
JeepZombie

[XJ Wheeler]

I can't stand Facebook, but I suppose for my Jeep I might suffer through it. :D

Any suggestions on where I can find a factory service manual for my '93 XJ? I've been looking around online and everything I've found is either highly questionable or $100+ to pick up...or both!

Cheers,
JeepZombie

A factory service manual is unfortunately gonna be nearing, if not, $100. I have one for my '92 and its invaluable! The main place i look for them is ebay. Mine was a gift but i believe that's where it was purchased.

But, to help out a good bit still the haynes or chilton manuals cover a good bit... and are much more reasonable at $25+/-.

Sent via messenger pigeon - i talk, he types.

[JeepZombie]

A factory service manual is unfortunately gonna be nearing, if not, $100.

But, to help out a good bit still the haynes or chilton manuals cover a good bit... and are much more reasonable at $25+/-.

Well, I had a Chilton for the Jeep, until I discovered water is leaking into the Jeep on the passenger side when it rains and flooding the front footwell.

So, doing some digging, I found a Chilton and a Haynes for just under $30 shipped for the pair. Merry Christmas to me!

I reckon I'll keep hunting for an FSM.

Cheers,
JeepZombie

[XJ Wheeler]

Well, I had a Chilton for the Jeep, until I discovered water is leaking into the Jeep on the passenger side when it rains and flooding the front footwell.

So, doing some digging, I found a Chilton and a Haynes for just under $30 shipped for the pair. Merry Christmas to me!

I reckon I'll keep hunting for an FSM.

Cheers,
JeepZombie

There ya go! And keep watching, every once in a while a used one comes up for cheaper.

Sent via messenger pigeon - i talk, he types.

[Firemanray]

I've got :xjtalk: I don't need no stink'n service manual!:D:smiley-scared003:

But if you really need one hold out for the real FSM, chilton and the like really don't cover much.





.

[JeepZombie]

I've ordered three books - Chilton's Manual, Hayne's Manual, and a High Performance XJ Guide 1984-2001. I'll be happy to give a review of the information from the third one.

[abebehrmann]

I've ordered three books - Chilton's Manual, Hayne's Manual, and a High Performance XJ Guide 1984-2001. I'll be happy to give a review of the information from the third one.

Yep, I think you'll like the High Performance XJ Guide. A lot of good information. Not really a "How To" book but has a lot of invaluable information about all parts of the XJ. I read mine cover to cover in a day, but still leaf through it a few times a week and stumble upon info I missed previously.

[Carves]

+ 1 for getting a FSM ... and factory spare parts manual.

They are both out there in .PDF, if you turn enough stones over .. ;);)

If you find that the t/fer case chain needs doing - the sprockets probably will too.


The XJs no muscle car ... but IMHO it is a "drivers" car ... so you should enjoy it.

[XJ Wheeler]

Yep, got one of the high performance xj guides on the shelf too. Great source!

Sent via messenger pigeon - i talk, he types.

[mudslut]

jeepzombie .....go big go custom and have fun don't forget to drink a beer between all that...............good luck to u

[JeepZombie]

jeepzombie .....go big go custom and have fun don't forget to drink a beer between all that...............good luck to u

Thanks mudslut! I'm planning on going custom - I have a design layout in my head already.


+ 1 for getting a FSM ... and factory spare parts manual.

They are both out there in .PDF, if you turn enough stones over ..

Usually I'm quite adept at turning over stones, however the only one I've found thus far for the '93 is only 16.7mb in size and seems to only cover the engine compartment.

If you happen across any stones along your travels that should need turning over, please feel free to pass along a message. :)