Welcome Mindwrack!!!

[bluedragon436]

Hi Mindwrack, :welcome: to the :xjtalk: forum!

We would love to know more about you and your Jeep. How you found us, etc...

Be sure and check out our XJ TALK SHOW! (http://podcasts.xjtalk.com) It\'s about Cherokees! It\'s like a radio talk show, but from the Internet.

Check out our sister sites, http://www.WranglerTalk.com/ and http://www.di-dah-dit.com/

[Mindwrack]

I just sold my car (2004 Ford Mustang) and have decided on getting a jeep next. I have seen quite a few jeeps I like but honestly don't know enough about them to make a good decision when looking for one. That's why I am here.

Also I plan on it being my personal daily driver for the next 10yrs. I would like to get something that I can fix up and is big enough for my kids and me (2 boys over 6'). This will be my first "project vehicle".

So if someone could kindly point me in the direction to learn more about these items I would appreciate it.

1: Body style differences
2: "Good Years"
3: Best engines

Also if you guys can help in what I should watch out for. I have about a month or so before I "need" to buy something so I would like to learn more about what I do and don't like to help me narrow down my search. Ohh yeah I got about $4.5K (total) to play with.

Until next time, I will be lurking in the forums! Peace!

[4.3LXJ]

In Cherokees, 99 is the best year followed by 98. 4.0L straight six and AW4 auto tranny is the ticket. Things to watch out for is rust underneath. It it comes from the rust belt, then that can be a problem

[XJ Wheeler]

For XJs in my opinion, best years '99, '97-'98, '91-'95. I would try to avoid '00-'01 as they had a few lesser desirable parts and a head cracking issue.

Now, if you have three big guys the rear doors on the XJ are well... smaller than i would like. I'm about 6' and its a pain when i ride in my brothers XJ. So, don't discount the Grand Cherokee. ZJ ('93-'98) and WJ ('99-'04) specially. They have solid axles, standard 4.0l but optional V8, a tad bigger (not enough to be a hassle when driving but gives that extra bit of interior), has many of the same parts as the XJ, front and rear coils instead of the front coil/rear leafs of the XJ. Now, there isn't quite as many options for aftermarket parts out there but still just about every part you can buy for XJ is available for them. And there isn't quite as much info on repairing/modding. But you get to have something a little different than the majority. Feel free to ask any questions about these.

Welcome to xjtalk! Make yourself at home.

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[Mindwrack]

In Cherokees, 99 is the best year followed by 98. 4.0L straight six and AW4 auto tranny is the ticket. Things to watch out for is rust underneath. It it comes from the rust belt, then that can be a problem

Right now I live in the Midwest so I hear ya about the rust underneath.

[Mindwrack]

For XJs in my opinion, best years '99, '97-'98, '91-'95. I would try to avoid '00-'01 as they had a few lesser desirable parts and a head cracking issue.

Now, if you have three big guys the rear doors on the XJ are well... smaller than i would like. I'm about 6' and its a pain when i ride in my brothers XJ. So, don't discount the Grand Cherokee. ZJ ('93-'98) and WJ ('99-'04) specially. They have solid axles, standard 4.0l but optional V8, a tad bigger (not enough to be a hassle when driving but gives that extra bit of interior), has many of the same parts as the XJ, front and rear coils instead of the front coil/rear leafs of the XJ. Now, there isn't quite as many options for aftermarket parts out there but still just about every part you can buy for XJ is available for them. And there isn't quite as much info on repairing/modding. But you get to have something a little different than the majority. Feel free to ask any questions about these.

Welcome to xjtalk! Make yourself at home.

Sent via messenger pigeon - i talk, he types.


Yea the boys are tall for sure so size inside the cab may matter.

Currently my GF has a S10 Blazer, they boys fit in back ok but there definitely isn't much room. It would be nice if the XJ, ZJ or WJ had more room than the blazer. I'll have to do some looking at the ZJ & WJ. I landed on the XJ cause I liked the look of it and what it looked like after modded.

Are there some images you can point me to of the ZJ & WJ? Maybe some on this forum? I did a Google search but it's showing me a mix of body styles and I'm not really sure which is which.

Thanks for the info and help!

[XJ Wheeler]

Yea the boys are tall for sure so size inside the cab may matter.

Currently my GF has a S10 Blazer, they boys fit in back ok but there definitely isn't much room. It would be nice if the XJ, ZJ or WJ had more room than the blazer. I'll have to do some looking at the ZJ & WJ. I landed on the XJ cause I liked the look of it and what it looked like after modded.

Are there some images you can point me to of the ZJ & WJ? Maybe some on this forum? I did a Google search but it's showing me a mix of body styles and I'm not really sure which is which.

Thanks for the info and help!

I haven't spent much time in a s10 blazer, just a little. But it seems the xj is probably on par with the blazer and the zj and wj slightly bigger.

To get you started, my moms zj. I'll get a few images and post em up in a couple minutes!

http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h401/xj-wheeler/The%20Jeep/p20120206-105248-1.jpg

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[NW99XJ]

The WJ is when they went all roundy, and smoothed out some of the body lines.
They kept this theme from 1999-2004.
The biggest giveaway is more rounder rear corners, and a steeper sloped front grill, and of course the headlights. The interior obviously got some upgrades as well.
http://image.4wheeloffroad.com/f/9291352%2Bw750%2Bst0/131_0709_09_z%2B2004_jeep_wj%2Bfront_view.jpg

http://www.wjjeeps.com/interior/int_01limited.jpg

The earlier models, the ZJ's were distinctive with the side molding, and more straight up-n-down grill.
http://image.fourwheeler.com/f/37755799+w600+h400+re0+cr1+ar0/131_1207_01%2Bgrand_potential%2B1998_jeep_zj_drivi ng_through_mud

The interior, although more "comfy" in some regards than the XJ, is still a step down from the WJ
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/166/1008379lz0.jpg

Both have their strong and weak point, and their place and worth in the offroad world can be debated all day long.
The choice you will have to make is a personal one, and will come down to budget and your opinion on drivability.
Also...the XJ's rear door openings are a little more narrow than the grand Cherokees.
I'm 6'3" and it's often times a squeeze getting in & out of the rear of my lifted late model XJ. As far as comfort goes, this may be a deal breaker for you choosing an XJ in the long run.

Keep in mind, most lift kits, and especially bumpers and armor is way more expensive for the WJ's than the ZJ's and both are more expensive than the XJ.
The amount of diversity is also limited, meaning you don't have as much aftermarket to choose from with the grands, as you do the XJ's. This IS changing though, and more and more lift kits and aftermarket support and options are popping up every year.

Since you're looking for something that will not only last you as a daily driver for the next 10 years but also work as a weekend warrior (I'm assuming you'll be taking it offroad?) .... longevity is going to come into play, as will you're mechanical capabilities.
The XJ's are probably one of the easiest Jeeps to work on, that being said, ALL jeeps have their own quirks, and typical things that can/will go wrong with them just driving (with age) and when modifying them. (broken bolts, having to do one thing in order to another, etc....)

10 years is a LOOOONG time for a DD/WW (daily driver/weekend warrior).... and depending on what your long term goals are for this Jeep (ie; how much lift, how big of tires, etc.) is going to play a big role on how practical it will be to keep as a daily driver.
There are many people out there (and here) that DD their lifted Jeep on 35's... it CAN be done. But ride comfort, MPG's and of course wear and tear, are all going to be a factor in the long term.

The engine options for the XJ's were pretty simple. A somewhat efficient, power starved 2.5L 4cyl, and of course, the infamous 4.0L Inline 6cyl. Which by every opinion out there was/is the best Jeep engine ever produced. There was a limited offereing of a V6 in the earlier models, but those are hard to come by, and for good reason... They sucked.

The ZJ's had two more popular engine choices.... of course, the 4.0L I6, as well as a very smooth running powerful and torquey 5.2L or 5.9L v8.]
These engines are great, but dont expect to see better than 8-12 mpg if your lucky.

The most typical engine found in the WJ's are the completely gutless 4.7L PowerTech V8
Built strictly for more efficiency than the previous Jeep engines, and it shows.
Still it was a decently reliable engine, and of course works well enough for the platform.
Plan on doing some serious power upgrades in the future to keep larger tires, and more armor moving down the road and up over that hill.

As with any build, there are things that you will have to consider... bigger tires will mean a re-gearing in the axles in order to maintain proper torque curve and engine rpm range on the freeway. This is usually one of the most expensive mods on any offroad rig.
Lifting a Jeep usually means addressing the drive line, and eliminating the slip yoke.
Basically as you lift the jeep the rear axle becomes farther away from the Transfer case, and the "slip" that is built into the connection between the transfer case and the drive line (there to compensate for suspension travel) becomes greater and greater, and will eventually risk falling off during times of extreme articulation.
The rest (lift kit, armor, bumpers, tires/wheels, etc) will come down to your own research, testimonials, reviews, and of course what your plans are for the rig.

If it was up to me, and I had $4.5k to play with..... I would consider splitting the budget, and getting myself a beater little trail rig that I could go offroad and play with, and be too terribly worried of something were to happen. A mildly built early model XJ can be had for around 2-2500. That would leave you anywhere;s from 2-2500 for a daily driver rig, and for that price, you could find yourself a decent little Honda or Toyota and be good for the next several years in all areas.
Again, this is just my advice, in any case, what ever you decide to go with, just make sure you do a LOT of research, and ask as many questions as you can.
There is no such thing as a stupid question here on XJTalk.com, and we are all here to help each other out.

I hope you found this useful, and I look forward to seeing some pics, of whatever you get.
Good luck, and happy hunting!

[Mudderoy]

In Cherokees, 99 is the best year followed by 98. 4.0L straight six and AW4 auto tranny is the ticket. Things to watch out for is rust underneath. It it comes from the rust belt, then that can be a problem

98/99 and check to see if it has ABS, if so you don't want it. You'll be looking for a high pinion dana 30 axle up front and a Chrysler 8.25 axle in the back. Also it's so important I'll repeat what Steve said. 4.0L straight 6. The AW4 is a good auto, but I think the manual transmission is just as good. Many people prefer the auto for rock crawling.

[Mudderoy]

You guys help me out here. It's my feeling that the Grand Cherokee is just a bad choice. I know some had the 4.0L but none of them had the AW4 or NP231 NP242 transfer cases. Also not sure about the axles. In other words they just weren't as reliable or beatable as the XJ out of the box. Right, wrong?

[4.3LXJ]

It is true that the Grands had different trannies. The 42RE is not as reliable. It needs to be babied more and make sure it is serviced regularly. An AW4 will take some abuse. There were a few grands with the NP231, but certainly not common. Lots of NP 242 tcases, but you will want to stay away from the NP249 full time tcase.

[Mudderoy]

It is true that the Grands had different trannies. The 42RE is not as reliable. It needs to be babied more and make sure it is serviced regularly. An AW4 will take some abuse. There were a few grands with the NP231, but certainly not common. Lots of NP 242 tcases, but you will want to stay away from the NP249 full time tcase.

There's a Grand Cherokee across the street, really nice looking 4x4 (stock) the 42RE went out and it's been sitting there for 6 months at least.

[4.3LXJ]

Yes, there are certain Jeeps you can pick up cheap if you know how to wrench. One is the Grand with a blown tranny and the other is the 4 Cyl YJ/TJ with a blown or worn out engine

[XJ Wheeler]

I haven't spent much time in a s10 blazer, just a little. But it seems the xj is probably on par with the blazer and the zj and wj slightly bigger.

To get you started, my moms zj. I'll get a few images and post em up in a couple minutes!

http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h401/xj-wheeler/The%20Jeep/p20120206-105248-1.jpg

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Okay, here ya go.

Zj stock

http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h401/xj-wheeler/Random%20Jeeps/ZJ_Jeep_Grand_Cherokee.jpg

Zjs modified

http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h401/xj-wheeler/Random%20Jeeps/IMG_6338758252571.jpg

http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h401/xj-wheeler/Random%20Jeeps/IMG_5998734030862.jpg

Wj stock

http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h401/xj-wheeler/Random%20Jeeps/800px-99-03_Jeep_Grand_Cherokee.jpg

Wjs modified

http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h401/xj-wheeler/Random%20Jeeps/IMG_6531009346321.jpg

http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h401/xj-wheeler/Random%20Jeeps/IMG_7765_CSL-1.jpg

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[XJ Wheeler]

The ZJ pictured above is my moms and we've had it 17 years with a grand total of 258k miles. Original drivetrain except the rear axle which was human error not vehicle malfunction. They're fine vehicles with a few issues, but every vehicle has some.

Basically i would rank them as a little harder to modify, little more roomy and cumfy, and and slightly less aftermarket support. Another thing they have over the xj is a better cooling system.



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[Mindwrack]

Wow crazy amounts of great info! Thanks all!

I will be living in NorCal and plan on doing quite a bit of camping/hiking/biking and off road play. One of my best friends who lives there has plenty of room at his place for me to work on a vehicle and his father used to be a mechanic for Kenworth. They rebuild everything they buy from the ground up. I'm gonna sucker them into helping me with copious amounts of beer and food (after the work is done of course).

They suggested pre-smog F250's (talk about gas hogs!) but like I said originally I got 2 kids and my GF to tote around when we go play. A 4 door F250 gets like what 4-8 mpg.... yeah not for me....

Looking at the pics I still kinda lean to the XJ just because I am not sure if I really like the round style of the others.

I have actually had a few people suggest two vehicles like XJ Wheeler suggested. That might not be a bad idea but obviously leaves me with less money to put back into "fixing" a vehicle. My original thought was finding a jeep for around 2-3K and putting the remainder directly into the engine (if needed) or elsewhere. I have seen a few "good enough to start with" XJ's for right around that number and some really decent ones for close to 4K. Here is a couple of examples:

http://redding.craigslist.org/cto/4091862967.html
http://medford.craigslist.org/cto/4153832530.html
http://humboldt.craigslist.org/cto/4062182800.html

[4.3LXJ]

Where at on NorCal?

[Mindwrack]

Shasta County. Anderson to be specific.

[4.3LXJ]

Not far from me. I am in Chico

[Mindwrack]

Yeah Chico is a cool little town. Haven't been there for a few years but what I remember of it was nice.

[NW99XJ]

Here is a couple of examples:

http://redding.craigslist.org/cto/4091862967.html
http://medford.craigslist.org/cto/4153832530.html
http://humboldt.craigslist.org/cto/4062182800.html

Out of those three Joshua, I like the 96 the best...it's clean, and seems to be a decent platform to build off of....
However, Like it has been mentioned before, I would hold out and try to find yourself a '99.... probably one of (if not THE) best year's of XJ ever built.
The late model design is just far better in many regards, many of which have already been listed.

[NW99XJ]

Not sure how far these are to you, but the first one is imaculate, and would be an excelent starting point:
http://medford.craigslist.org/cto/4066135220.html
http://images.craigslist.org/00303_si2EJ0MJQ9_600x450.jpg




http://medford.craigslist.org/cto/4108100551.html
http://images.craigslist.org/00G0G_fXRZGQyWqeW_600x450.jpg

[Mindwrack]

Yea that first one does look nice. Medford/Ashland is only about 150mi north of where I will be. I'm not opposed to driving a little ways to get what I want.

Right now I am in Madison, WI and moving at the end of November. Will land in CA the first week of December. So I have a little time to look.

[4.3LXJ]

Lots of decent no rust XJs around here

[Mindwrack]

Just made an offer on this. What are your opinions. I offered $5K, I can borrow some cash to haggle a little.

http://redding.craigslist.org/cto/4137683197.html

Edit: (Added runners up)
http://medford.craigslist.org/cto/4145587650.html
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/cto/4116450000.html (I happen to be going through here on my move)

[NW99XJ]

If you can get this for 5k I would prob do it.
I would be weary of the rear axle if it's a Dana 35 (weak axle especially for 35" tires)...and I would ask about the gearing.
Should be 4.88's for 35's.
http://images.craigslist.org/00W0W_6lzTVfV9Spe_600x450.jpg

This one isn't too bad either..... Seems like a decently fair price too, I bet there's even some room for negotiation
A good runner up, and the best year of Cherokee.
Plenty of room to grow if you like.
http://images.craigslist.org/01717_dDw0fhn7y5C_600x450.jpg

[Mindwrack]

OK So I found this today and am seriously thinking about picking it up and driving on my move. We were gonna hold off on replacing my car until I landed in Cali but the price on this is perfect.

What are your thoughts. Sure, I'll be paying for the added fuel but it might be worth it.

What questions should I be asking the person selling it?
http://carbondale.craigslist.org/cto/4145967254.html

[Brasscatz]

Nice looking Jeep! I'm cheap, so I'd rather pay $2k for it, but still nice! Especially being red, the only question you need to ask is when you can pick it up...

lol, but seriously you check it out in person and look for rust, check tires, check the color of the oil (it's ok if it's black, as long as it doesn't look like it's coffee colored), Check the tranny fluid and see if it smells burnt, Make sure all lights and blinkers work and there's no electrical problems, check and make sure there's no check engine codes (and check the actual codes like this: http://www.xjtalk.com/showthread.php?t=11574 If it gives the battery code, there's a chance he disconnected the battery to turn off the check engine light) Check for major oil leaks (these jeeps typically leak oil, just check for major leaks), check the exhaust for dark colors and bad smells, check the exhaust system for leaks, etc. He doesn't say if it's a 4x4 or not, but I think I see the 4x4 emblem on it so check the transfer case by shifting into 4x4 and listen for grinding and chain slap.

other than that, unless I forgot anything, there should't be anything major wrong with it and would be a great buy! Good luck buddy!

[Brasscatz]

Oh, I'd ask for any records and receipts he has for it. Maybe ask what all has been replaced and when. It's always nice to have a general idea of all that stuff but not a necessity.

[XJ Wheeler]

X2 on everything Brasscatz said. The main thing i will always look for is rust. I've been naive to it before and gotten bitten. Plus, if you can't fix it yourself its one of the most costly fixes. We're not talking about surface rust (which is typical with pretty much any vehicle even a couple months old), but rather the stuff that hinders the structural integrity on the metal.

Look for any fresh engine work. I.e. parts that look more shiny than the rest, clean or recently turned hardware is an indicater too. And just ask about it, feel them out sorta thing. Any side stepping and you know someone is trying to pass something off to the next owner. I once looked at an older suburban that obviously was the style of one a few years older than the title said. And the owner didn't even acknowledge it when i asked.

Drive it, like you normally would. Get it up to the speeds you drive. Feel for vibrations, wobble, etc.

Also, i always check the vin from the title to the one on the vehicle. Just an extra measure.

And you can use the bad parts, like bald tires-cracked dash-torn seat-whatever can help on getting you a little wiggle room in price. But, i wouldn't badger them with it.


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[Mindwrack]

So much more looking has passed. Basically I check CL every day. I actually have a friend about 10 minutes away from this one.

http://eugene.craigslist.org/cto/4133764735.html

I am also looking at this one and have a friend about 50 minutes away from it.

http://goldcountry.craigslist.org/cto/4132211769.html

Tear them apart, tell me whats wrong with them.

[Brasscatz]

I like the price of the second one better ;)

[XJ Wheeler]

Both look okay. I like the condition of the first one, but the price is high for the miles. Don't really like the wheels on the second but that's easy to fix.

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