Snorkel denied!

[Mudderoy]

One of the future modifications that I had on my modification sheet was a snorkel.

After learning a bit about how a snorkel might help save your engine from hydro lock there was still much more to do to make a XJ deep water worthy.

After awhile I cooled on the idea of a snorkel.

About two days ago I was thinking about how I could do the cowl air intake system to get the battery box out of the way, for a 2nd battery. I went back to an old idea I had about combining the cowl air intake with a snorkel, but I didn't like the $600 price of it, also I didn't like the idea of cutting up a $200 cowl air intake system.

I had already settled on a AirFlow snorkel because it fits with Bushwacker cut out flares. Now the ARB can be made to fit, but at almost $200 more why should I have to do more work and spend more money?

I was poking around and found an AirFlow snorkel for the XJ new, on sale for $325. I thought about getting it, but did the responsible thing and closed the browser window without saving the link!

The next day I was chatting with Matt, I told him I found a great price on a snorkel, he asked for the link. I took this as a sign so I ordered one. :crazy:

I figured I wouldn't find one anywhere any time soon for $325 free shipping and no tax!

So here's a good shot of the ARB made to fit the Bushwackers...

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s91/UKJeepThang/Jeep/100_1303.jpg

And here is the AirFlow with Bushwackers...

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a357/OffSgt/snorkel.jpg

So here is my thought process on the snorkel.

Cold air systems aren't if they are under the hood. The XJ under hood temps approach 200 degrees!

The snorkel will add more restriction to the air flow since it has to go through a long tube and there will be more bends in the air flow.

I may deep water proof my XJ over time but right now it will be for that "oopppsssss I didn't know it was that deep!" and more than likely it would be in a on road flooding situation that we have in and around Houston from time to time. Usually tropical in nature. In other words many things might be ruined but I should be able to keep going, certainly I'll have a better chance than I would without the snorkel.

Now that I'm typing this the AW4 transmission might be the 2nd thing that I look into making deep water ready.

The AirFlow snorkel for NON-ABS Jeep Cherokee "XJ" is available from one of our vendors... Jeepin Outfitters :link: (http://www.jeepinoutfitters.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=550)

[cantab27]

xjs love water .....good mod a snorkel

[OrangeXJ]

Now that I'm typing this the AW4 transmission might be the 2nd thing that I look into making deep water ready.

that's a easy fix run all your vent lines up to the engine compartment. The stock location of the lines are too low that's what caused the trans in the tj to go out

[4.3LXJ]

The funny thing is, the early XJs, 84 - 86 had the vent line from the tranny and tcase tied into one that went up the back of the bell housing and attached at the top bolt on the bell housing to a piece of tub bent 180° like a cheap swimming snorkel

[Mudderoy]

The funny thing is, the early XJs, 84 - 86 had the vent line from the tranny and tcase tied into one that went up the back of the bell housing and attached at the top bolt on the bell housing to a piece of tub bent 180° like a cheap swimming snorkel

I guess, I really need to look into tying the vent lines into the snorkel. First things first though...

[cantab27]

that's a easy fix run all your vent lines up to the engine compartment. The stock location of the lines are too low that's what caused the trans in the tj to go out

done all that and still killed the trans in a smallish puddle ....hot seals cold water not good....

http://i469.photobucket.com/albums/rr52/cantab27/jeepin%20and%20bits/waterrat002.jpg (http://s469.photobucket.com/user/cantab27/media/jeepin%20and%20bits/waterrat002.jpg.html)

http://i469.photobucket.com/albums/rr52/cantab27/jeepin%20and%20bits/waterrat012.jpg (http://s469.photobucket.com/user/cantab27/media/jeepin%20and%20bits/waterrat012.jpg.html)

air box nice and dry .......in all fairness jeep did float and stopped so sitting there is what killed trans .......would I run puddles again ,,in a heart beat ,,:rolleye0012:

[Carves]

done all that and still killed the trans in a smallish puddle .... hot seals ... cold water ... not good....



Same goes for the diffs ..

Theres a reason I stop at a water crossing ... then kick tyres, check water depths, have a smoke ... and generally waste a bit of time ... to let things cool down .. ;);)

[cantab27]

Same goes for the diffs ..

Theres a reason I stop at a water crossing ... then kick tyres, check water depths, have a smoke ... and generally waste a bit of time ... to let things cool down .. ;);)

don't know what your talking about mate......:rolleye0012:

http://i469.photobucket.com/albums/rr52/cantab27/jeepin%20and%20bits/rebuild005.jpg (http://s469.photobucket.com/user/cantab27/media/jeepin%20and%20bits/rebuild005.jpg.html)

http://i469.photobucket.com/albums/rr52/cantab27/jeepin%20and%20bits/rebuild006.jpg (http://s469.photobucket.com/user/cantab27/media/jeepin%20and%20bits/rebuild006.jpg.html)

http://i469.photobucket.com/albums/rr52/cantab27/jeepin%20and%20bits/rebuild004.jpg (http://s469.photobucket.com/user/cantab27/media/jeepin%20and%20bits/rebuild004.jpg.html)

[nickyg]

Maybe I'm a wimp, but thats not a smallish puddle. Here in the states we like to call that a river.

[Mudderoy]

Hmmm I failed to post (I guess) that I ordered the AirFlow snorkel. I was told there is a 10 week wait, so maybe by Halloween!

[Cjsmithfl]

Yeah, I had a bad encounter with a flooded lake a long time ago in my old f-150 and a buddy that said he knew the area like the back of his hand. Ended up hydro locking the motor and toasted the tq. Converter. It was a cold night to walk home soaking wet with no phone...

[Mudderoy]

As of Tuesday this week NO word, email, call, etc... from the company I purchased the snorkel from over a month ago.

I called them, the guy I needed to talk to wasn't available, so they took my number, here we are on Thursday and no call back.

Then when I got home today....

4011 4012

4013 4014

Nope, not shipped in a box, just as you see it here, a big orange plastic bag! :bang:

[cantab27]

its made outta tuff stuff , gonna take a few hits anyways ....in a box would of be better but .........come with tem plate for cutting guard.....??..just remember the first cut is the deepest .......:D

[Mudderoy]

its made outta tuff stuff , gonna take a few hits anyways ....in a box would of be better but .........come with tem plate for cutting guard.....??..just remember the first cut is the deepest .......:D

Yeah I figured they knew what they were doing, and I think it says a lot for how tough it must be. Everything looks fine. Cutting that 3" hole will be tough, emotionally! :flameon:

[cantab27]

measure twice cut once tony .....good luck mate looking forward to ya wee write up on fitting ...

[Brasscatz]

Yay! Happy it came in though!

[bluedragon436]

Looks like it came in safely and in good shape... Kind of interesting to see it come in a orange industrial trash bag instead of a box, like you would think it should have...

[nickyg]

Cutting that 3" hole will be tough, emotionally!

Don't worry about cutting your fender wrong. I hear if you water it enough, it will grow back. Same holds true for fingers and toes.. Not so much for my tail though.

[msmoorenburg]

Don't believe the hype it still took on water. Ran for 10ish mins under water then croaked. I wasn't on site but rumor is 8qts of water/oil mix came out when the pan plug was pulled. From a quick overview the water/mud mix came in at the oil cap or pvc valve.

So far the damage is

rod and main bearings
lifters are shot (about to pull the head)
new oil pump and pickup tube
down stream o2
I cut the 3rd oil filter apart and it was caked in mud


Enjoy

http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m639/sellitx/IMG_180604908976936_zps99e90fc5.jpg (http://s1135.photobucket.com/user/sellitx/media/IMG_180604908976936_zps99e90fc5.jpg.html)

http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m639/sellitx/IMG_182208351265368_zpsdc6e522a.jpg (http://s1135.photobucket.com/user/sellitx/media/IMG_182208351265368_zpsdc6e522a.jpg.html)

Look close at the pickup tube YUP that's Mud

http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m639/sellitx/20131112_192233_zps60193c87.jpg (http://s1135.photobucket.com/user/sellitx/media/20131112_192233_zps60193c87.jpg.html)

The filter

http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m639/sellitx/received_m_mid_1385130120931_71488431df80209393_0_ zps3e897772.jpg (http://s1135.photobucket.com/user/sellitx/media/received_m_mid_1385130120931_71488431df80209393_0_ zps3e897772.jpg.html)

[4.3LXJ]

Don't worry about cutting your fender wrong. I hear if you water it enough, it will grow back. Same holds true for fingers and toes.. Not so much for my tail though.

Does that work with hair too? :pray:

[cantab27]

Don't believe the hype it still took on water. Ran for 10ish mins under water then croaked. I wasn't on site but rumor is 8qts of water/oil mix came out when the pan plug was pulled. From a quick overview the water/mud mix came in at the oil cap or pvc valve.

So far the damage is

rod and main bearings
lifters are shot (about to pull the head)
new oil pump and pickup tube
down stream o2
I cut the 3rd oil filter apart and it was caked in mud


Enjoy
still like to see set up on that one ....should of shut it down ....did they pull plugs before trying to start it...check to see if air box dry ..one pic looks like airbox outta water .........lots of what ifs there ...still cheap safe mod when playing in water:smiley-taunt002:
http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m639/sellitx/IMG_180604908976936_zps99e90fc5.jpg (http://s1135.photobucket.com/user/sellitx/media/IMG_180604908976936_zps99e90fc5.jpg.html)

http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m639/sellitx/IMG_182208351265368_zpsdc6e522a.jpg (http://s1135.photobucket.com/user/sellitx/media/IMG_182208351265368_zpsdc6e522a.jpg.html)

Look close at the pickup tube YUP that's Mud

http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m639/sellitx/20131112_192233_zps60193c87.jpg (http://s1135.photobucket.com/user/sellitx/media/20131112_192233_zps60193c87.jpg.html)

The filter

http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m639/sellitx/received_m_mid_1385130120931_71488431df80209393_0_ zps3e897772.jpg (http://s1135.photobucket.com/user/sellitx/media/received_m_mid_1385130120931_71488431df80209393_0_ zps3e897772.jpg.html)

[msmoorenburg]

Wayne
No water on the topend only in the engine crankcase. Tranny and diffs survived too not so much for the new throwout bearing or idlers

[ezbuzzsaw]

Thanks for posting that pic of the fitment of the Safari with the Bushwhackers, I have the Safari and wanted to see it before I ordered the flares! My fenders are cut pretty high so the next question will be can I still fit the Bushwhackers? I may have to do some trading and selling now to get the flairs on the way! That looks so good to me and I am tired of the tire spray on the freeway and the mud spray else where LOL!
Thanks Again,
EZ

[Mudderoy]

Thanks for posting that pic of the fitment of the Safari with the Bushwhackers, I have the Safari and wanted to see it before I ordered the flares! My fenders are cut pretty high so the next question will be can I still fit the Bushwhackers? I may have to do some trading and selling now to get the flairs on the way! That looks so good to me and I am tired of the tire spray on the freeway and the mud spray else where LOL!
Thanks Again,
EZ

With my 32x11.4x15 on 10x15 and stock flares I had a nice high spray of water with the slightest turn. It was nice not having that when I got the Bushwackers. I probably like it even better now with the 33x12.5x15 :D

I'm not sure about the high cut fenders. You may need to download the installation instructions from Bushwacker and go through the measuring process just like you would if you were installing a set. That way you'll know if you have enough metal to install them. I suspect you do but before you spend $450+ ...

I didn't know this until recently but the ARB Safari snorkel has a long hose run in the wheel well then up and to the air box. The AirFlow is a short hose run, but with a 90 degree bend.

[SkillsHunte]

Thanks for all your explanations mate, i was thinking about getting a snorkel soon, and i ended up getting a k&n recently :) but still, learned from your stuff :)

[Mudderoy]

I started working on my snorkel install about 13 hours ago. I stopped about 3am.

Why did it take so long you may ask?

4055

It seems the hole saw cuts metal very very slowly, but it goes through wires like butter!

No I had the harness off the wall and holding it about 3 inches away from where I was cutting the 3 inch hole.

After about 2 or 3 hours I had striped soldered and shrink tubed all the cut connections.

I cleared a bunch of codes, but one remains. P0700. Anyone know what color wire that is on a 1998 Cherokee? I double checked the wires in the harness, I got them all but may there's one that was nicked that needs to be cut and reconnected.

4056

I still have to get the air box drilled and connected but I have the snorkel on...

4057

[SkillsHunte]

Haaaa epic looking jeep, kinda jealous here haha

done with the S3

[bluedragon436]

Looks good installed, especially with the flares!! Sorry to see the wire issue, and hope you find the reason why you still have the one code...

[4.3LXJ]

Ouch, don't you just love it when stuff like that happens? Nice looking snorkel though and I like how high it is on the fender. That code appears to be affected by the tranny output or input speed sensor. Those wires aren't anywhere near that stuff. Maybe it is unrelated

[Mudderoy]

Ouch, don't you just love it when stuff like that happens? Nice looking snorkel though and I like how high it is on the fender. That code appears to be affected by the tranny output or input speed sensor. Those wires aren't anywhere near that stuff. Maybe it is unrelated

It's always possible, but I didn't have any codes prior to the harness cut and then after I had a boat load and a blown fuse.

I disconnected the battery before I started reconnecting wires, but of course the damage had already been done with the battery connected.

[nickyg]

OUCH!! Yea, wires are the one thing that don't grow back too well.

[4.3LXJ]

Check all fuses?

[Mudderoy]

Check all fuses?

Not yet, but it's on my list to check.

[Carves]

"ouchhh .. !! ... was my comment too.... that I was posting, just as the computer crashed last night ..

Then I made some other comments .. :D

Having ruined stuff in the past :o .... I learnt the hard way ... that its handy to slip a bit of 1/2" ply, or something, between wiring and whatever is being drilled.

You made any headway on that code ??

X 2 on checking fuses.


P0700 - EATX Controller DTC Present.
This SBEC III or JTEC DTC indicates that the EATX or Aisin controller has an active fault and has illuminated the MIL via a CCD (EATX) or SCI (Aisin) message. The specific fault must be acquired from the EATX via CCD or from the Aisin via ISO-9141.


I've got a bit happening at the moment ... but I can probably grind through wiring diagrams later if you are still having probs.

.... and you might want to ensure none of those joins can rub together, through the heat shrink, where theres lumpy bits of solder .... bit of extra insulation tape ought to do the trick.

[cantab27]

don't feel bad tony ,,,its the kinda thing I do all the time ....part from that nice job ......how was it to cut that jeep up ....

[Mudderoy]

After I came in from the garage this morning, about 3am, I sat and chilled, wound up watching a movie and didn't get to bed until 8am! :smiley-taunt002:

So at the crack of 3pm today I jumped out of bed and got to work.

4058

4060

I couldn't find anything to cover the front of the airbox, so I'll have to buy something and cover it.

http://youtu.be/AEMLAlgcwjg

[cantab27]

put a piece of paper over snorkel hat , should stay there with engine running ...still nice job mate , should be well happy with that and the um re wire ..

[Mudderoy]

"ouchhh .. !! ... was my comment too.... that I was posting, just as the computer crashed last night ..

Then I made some other comments .. :D

Having ruined stuff in the past :o .... I learnt the hard way ... that its handy to slip a bit of 1/2" ply, or something, between wiring and whatever is being drilled.

You made any headway on that code ??

X 2 on checking fuses.


P0700 - EATX Controller DTC Present.
This SBEC III or JTEC DTC indicates that the EATX or Aisin controller has an active fault and has illuminated the MIL via a CCD (EATX) or SCI (Aisin) message. The specific fault must be acquired from the EATX via CCD or from the Aisin via ISO-9141.


I've got a bit happening at the moment ... but I can probably grind through wiring diagrams later if you are still having probs.

.... and you might want to ensure none of those joins can rub together, through the heat shrink, where theres lumpy bits of solder .... bit of extra insulation tape ought to do the trick.

We'll see but the code has gone. Still thinking about taking wire, crimpers and some black tape with me...

[XJ Wheeler]

Those bits are good things to have anyway.

Looks like nice fitment! Although i do think that image of the hole saw going through a bundle of live wires will give me a few nightmares.

Sent via messenger pigeon - i talk, he types.

[Mudderoy]

First daytime shot of newly installed snorkel

[97xjproject]

couldn't you get the pre-filter that goes on top of the snorkel and the inline filter from a spectre system then completely take the air box out of the system allowing for your dual battery set up?

[Mudderoy]

couldn't you get the pre-filter that goes on top of the snorkel and the inline filter from a spectre system then completely take the air box out of the system allowing for your dual battery set up?

I was looking at the cowl snorkel only from the aspect of the inline filter and holder. That might be what you're talking about, I don't remember the brand. But yes I am thinking about that, just haven't started the research yet. I was eyeballing the space yesterday when I had the air box out, wondering if a red top would fit in there.

[Carves]

If I wasnt so cheap .... I would have copied the diesels set up by now .. :o

:D:D

Snorkle on the left hand side ... and use the existing hole in the bodywork.

Use a suitable size airbox, and the TJs plumbing to the throttle body ... and the fusebox doesnt need moving.

http://www.volvodemort.com/technical/jeep/photos/hi_res/image001.jpg

[Mudderoy]

Yesterday after work I had a new code. Looked it up and said it was an open on the electric fan relay. Yep, my patch job (after removing the bypass switch) had come apart in all the moving and jostling. So I fixed that last night.

I'm happy to report no CEL this morning, or this evening on the drive home. :patriot:

[cantab27]

righto then time to test it....kiwi styles .........:D:D


http://i469.photobucket.com/albums/rr52/cantab27/web5pn8.jpg (http://s469.photobucket.com/user/cantab27/media/web5pn8.jpg.html)

[gary63]

I was looking at the cowl snorkel only from the aspect of the inline filter and holder. That might be what you're talking about, I don't remember the brand. But yes I am thinking about that, just haven't started the research yet. I was eyeballing the space yesterday when I had the air box out, wondering if a red top would fit in there.

Will if you need any inf. the cowl snorkel sizes just lot me know I have one I haven't installed it yet.I'm working on a way of running it to the out side or adding a secent intake tube for when it snow and covers the cowling.

[NW99XJ]

I was looking at the cowl snorkel only from the aspect of the inline filter and holder. That might be what you're talking about, I don't remember the brand. But yes I am thinking about that, just haven't started the research yet. I was eyeballing the space yesterday when I had the air box out, wondering if a red top would fit in there.
I'll be going the direction of the cowell snorkel...
There are two companies that make them.
1.) Spectre $149 (they are the ones with the inline filer.)
I dont personally like Spectre for several reasons. But I'm not going to get into that here. What I WILL say about this kit is that to ME...it's ugly. Reminds me of a stove pipe or dryer vent.
http://www.quadratec.com/Assets/Images/154038/154038-md.jpg

http://www.quadratec.com/Assets/Images/154038/154038-add1-lg.jpg

2.) THOR $185
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQovyws1HzQUf3seIy6EZl9goLKvBCgE aREhjAbPxi-XS9atHtX

http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww192/clayton3854/jeep212.jpg

The main reason I am going this direction is this:

I was eyeballing the space yesterday when I had the air box out, wondering if a red top would fit in there.
If you want to run a dual battery set-up in an XJ, and don't want a battery in the cargo area in the back of the Jeep, this is really your only option.

I've got nothing against the traditional snorkels, in fact I think they're cool as hell. But they all pretty much require you keep the stock airbox. I'm at the point in my build now, that I'm really needing to put that extra yellow top I have sitting in the garage to good use.

[gary63]

That is why I'm going that way but if you get a lot of snow and ice sometimes the vents in the cowling get covered or blocked and you may run rich or chock the motor out. So I'm working on a way to ether come out the side right next to the antna and up the window or using a exust -y-cutout and installing a ramair that can be closed when crossing water. The only resin I have the spectre is for the filter holder and I got a very good deal. I don't like the tubing being metal I will rap it up with thermo tape to help it keep the air cooler.

[nickyg]

Putting in a snorkel seems like a lot of work. Can't you just take the bridge?
I know tolls suck, but how far are you willing to go to save a buck?

[Brasscatz]

I don't know about where you live, but we have trolls guarding our bridges, not tolls. Sometimes their questions are difficult to answer correctly and we have to find another way across. If you're lucky you can sometimes catch them when they're napping or on their coffee break, but sometimes isn't enough. It's a state law that we can't run the trolls over, not to protect the trolls because they just regenerate, but to prevent children from witnessing a troll getting squashed. Liberalism at its best I suppose.

They also have other ways to keep us from crossing because let's be honest, it gets boring guarding a bridge all day. Sometimes they'll try to distract you with a mirage of a beautiful woman with a flat tire. Don't fall for it because she may be cute from afar, but she's far from cute. Other times they'll create potholes to screw with our suspension, but us jeepers aren't bothered by those and that pisses them off so they created the newer jeeps built by Fiat to help eliminate that.

Long story short, you have to be prepared to cross in the water just in case your quest quiz answers aren't up to par. It can be a bitch sometimes, but we all have to do it. Just keep calm and snorkle on ;)

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4 because my microwave couldn't do it

[nickyg]

It's a state law that we can't run the trolls over,



Damm hippies!

[Mudderoy]

So I finally got around to closing off the front of the air box...

4362

4358

4359

4360

4361

[jeepin_idaho]

Okay so I'm just now catching up on all this snorkle talk. I'm with the others that like the cowl intake idea for the purpose of opening up the spot for a second battery. I think that Specter kit looks kinda crappy but its under the hood - so what. I've just seen a local guy (local meaning when i'm back in the States) do a cowl mod that puts the filter under the cowl on the passenger side away from the vents. As long as the cowl drain holes aren't clogged, I think that should be safe from the water leaking into the filter too badly. Plus with a K&N cotton filter, a bit of moisture on an oiled filter is no biggie. There are other issues though. The HVAC intake vents are in that neighborhood too. So that means the sound of the filter sucking in gobs of air will come through the vents inside the cabin. My XJ is pretty noisy as it is, so I might not notice a difference but I don't want to make it louder either.

What are your thoughts on running the intake under the cowl like the one in the picture?

[NW99XJ]

A buddy of mine had the Thor kit on his late model XJ ... I took a ride in it and honestly.... You CAN hear a little intake noise... but you can also hear the body creak, the suspension work, the springs squeek, and the tire noise just goes without saying... going down the freeway the overall road noise is FAR louder than anything the intake can generate....
That all being said... this mod MAY not be for those who DD their Jeep for a lengthy commute.