4.5-5 inchs of lift.

[SeniorGustas]

What would happen if i were to add a two inch coil spacer and 2 inch shackles to my 3 inch lifted jeep without doing pitman arm and lower control arms?

[NW99XJ]

The pitman arm issue wouldn't be a problem....you're track bar however would pull ythat axle to one side pretty bad.
The control arm length, if left stock, would pull your axle so far back into the wheel well., it would prob rub just driving down the road..... you MIGHT clear, but you certainly couldn't wheel it like that.
Bare minimum, would be a track bar relocation bracket, even with that the axle wouldn't be centered, just "better off" than without.... and you'll need longer control arms, adjustable upper and lowers would be best, so that you can correct the pinion angle/castor.
Sorry.... wish I had better news.
But if you're looking at a screaming deal on some gear.... GET IT...and just save up a little more for a little while longer to get the other gear you'll need to do this right.
Other things to consider are going to be brake lines (you can prob get away with relocating the fronts) - but the rear will have to be replaced with something longer...stock wrangler rear brake line is a good cheap fix for this.
Also...drivline vibes..... at that height you'll definitely want to be looking at a Slip Yoke Eliminator Kit.

[reddragon72]

^^^ totally agree!

Don't ever lift your jeep just for the sake of lifting it unless you don't plan on driving it. Always make sure that you have what you need to do it right.

[4.3LXJ]

What would happen if i were to add a two inch coil spacer and 2 inch shackles to my 3 inch lifted jeep without doing pitman arm and lower control arms?

If you are using stock control arms, they will not go down far enough. But if you to manage it, then the castor angle will not be right and you might experience death wobble. Not saying it will happen, but if anything is loose it will exasperate it.

[SeniorGustas]

i have horrible death wobbles as it is. started getting them at 25mph recently but i also have toyota pickup i drive

[4.3LXJ]

This would probably only make it worse. Better get that figured out first. Have someone saw the steering wheel back and forth while you look underneath. Also, I forgot to add that you would need new brake lines and track bar. But then again maybe that track bar would fix your death wobble

[OrangeXJ]

This would probably only make it worse. Better get that figured out first. Have someone saw the steering wheel back and forth while you look underneath. Also, I forgot to add that you would need new brake lines and track bar. But then again maybe that track bar would fix your death wobble

Rebuilding my trac bar fixed my DW problem

[bigjim350]

You could just drill a new hole on the axle bracket to relocate the track bar. Thats what the base rough country 4.5" lift kit does. In fact you can download the instructions for that kit and it will tell you how to drill the hole.

[4x4Dalton]

You could just drill a new hole on the axle bracket to relocate the track bar. Thats what the base rough country 4.5" lift kit does. In fact you can download the instructions for that kit and it will tell you how to drill the hole.

That's what we did when I built the JY 4.5 lift on my other XJ I had.

[reddragon72]

Rebuilding my trac bar fixed my DW problem

ditto. I still need to weld a nut on the axle side though as the hole is slightly wollowed out.

[NW99XJ]

A better solution would be to use a Track Bar Relocation bracket if you're dead set on retaining the use of your stock one.
http://www.4wheelparts.com/aux_incl/images.ashx?i=SKY_JTBF_PIC_4_1_72.jpg&partNo=SKY&w=400&h=400

These brackets are $20 - $30.
My advice would be to get an adjustable track bar set up. The Rugged Ridge double shear (http://www.4wheelparts.com/Lift-Kits-Suspensions-Shocks/Adjustable-Track-Bar.aspx?t_c=1&t_s=101&t_pt=4164&t_pn=rug18205.05&utm_source=google&utm_medium=froogle&utm_campaign=product&emlprox=out&ppcfon=1&gclid=CLWYgKCn87gCFa9_Qgod4H0ApA) set up is affordable, durable, and gives you room to grow. (works from 2" - 6" of lift.)

[bigjim350]

Those brackets change the geometry of the track bar and have cause a few folks DW in the past

[NW99XJ]

Those brackets change the geometry of the track bar and have cause a few folks DW in the past

I'm sure its possible,
Back when I did "phase-1" of my lift, I ran one of these when I was at 3".....with all stock steering, It did just fine.
http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/511/procompliftinstallmay20o.jpg

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/1511/procompliftinstallmay20.jpg

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/9886/ststblzr022511001.jpg

I even used this after I went up another couple of inches and after I got my adjustable double shear track bar in.....
http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/7529/steeringupgrade036.jpg

I only ran it like that for a couple months, as it obviously led to a tiny bit of bump steer. After removing the bracket that went away, but again, the frame side mount was in a different location as well.
I have installed these on several rigs, as a temporary alternative to an adjustable track bar. All with great results.
I'm sure, as with everything, results will vary.
My experiences with these are positive. The good thing is, if it doesn't work... you're only out 20-30 bucks, and it's completely reversible.

[SeniorGustas]

when i get home ill post up a video of it i have some loose parts in my steering but i know nothing about it so i've just been avoiding it and driving my dads truck. there's also an idle problem, Is the best way to get a video up by putting it on youtube and posting the link? Thanks for all the steering advice i may go ahead and buy one of those today, for 20-30 bucks its worth a shot right? is it fairly easy to install?

[NW99XJ]

when i get home ill post up a video of it i have some loose parts in my steering but i know nothing about it so i've just been avoiding it and driving my dads truck. there's also an idle problem, Is the best way to get a video up by putting it on youtube and posting the link?
Yup, thats how its done!


Thanks for all the steering advice i may go ahead and buy one of those today, for 20-30 bucks its worth a shot right? is it fairly easy to install?
Hey no prob...thats what we're here for right?
Yup easy as pie....it's a tight fit, so have a dead blow hammer on hand to help "persuade" it into place, but its real straight forward.

[SeniorGustas]

As more and more problems arise and i get closer to bootcamp i've been leaning more towards just scrapping my project. I would love to get a 97 and start a build on that i definitly want to go a different direction with my jeep than that i already took it. really wish i could find a trade for a stock cherokee

[NW99XJ]

Late models are nice, of course I'm a little partial.
That being said...if your current XJ is mechanically sound.... it's still a great platform.
Basically the same power-plant and drive-train, just some small stuff interior wise.
Once you strip the bumpers and fender flares, they're pretty close to the same.
It doesnt appear that you have done anything to your jeep that isnt reversible, or that you can build off of. I'd say keep going man. Dont give up...at the very least, this may just be your "first jeep" ....and it will be what you cut your teeth on....build up your own knowledge base and skill set off of.
....just my .02 cents man.... I can tell you, my own Jeep has caused me more frustration that you can imagine!.

[SeniorGustas]

yeah, i would really like the 4.0 im 2.5 is feeling like its laking what it once had but ive learned alot off of what ive done so far and i have spent countless hours ready through peoples build threads! really want a cleaner look but i plan on sanding it and cleaning it up as soon as i quit work. another major reason to sell is i leave for bootcamp and i dont want it just to rot at home theres going to be no there to really start it and let it idle or anything. its my parents old house that me and 2 of my other buddies live at were all 19 but when i move out they wont be staying anymore.

[SeniorGustas]

definitly appreciate that advice though! thank you. its always good to hear others opinions that have more experience than me.

[Mudderoy]

I'm sure its possible,
Back when I did "phase-1" of my lift, I ran one of these when I was at 3".....with all stock steering, It did just fine.
http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/511/procompliftinstallmay20o.jpg

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/1511/procompliftinstallmay20.jpg

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/9886/ststblzr022511001.jpg

I even used this after I went up another couple of inches and after I got my adjustable double shear track bar in.....
http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/7529/steeringupgrade036.jpg

I only ran it like that for a couple months, as it obviously led to a tiny bit of bump steer. After removing the bracket that went away, but again, the frame side mount was in a different location as well.
I have installed these on several rigs, as a temporary alternative to an adjustable track bar. All with great results.
I'm sure, as with everything, results will vary.
My experiences with these are positive. The good thing is, if it doesn't work... you're only out 20-30 bucks, and it's completely reversible.

One came with my RC 4.5" lift, I didn't have any problem with it either. I ran mine for a year at least. I took it off when I installed the adjustable track bar and drop pitman arm. Now I can't find the damn thing! I want to see about putting it on the 99.

[SeniorGustas]

I'm going to order one today and see if i cant figure it out i will probably be asking alot of questions as i have never messed with steering.

[SeniorGustas]

anyone have a link to where to get one?

[Mudderoy]

I'm going to order one today and see if i cant figure it out i will probably be asking alot of questions as i have never messed with steering.

I haven't read the entire post, so maybe you already have this...

I wanted to get that off of mine. Even though I haven't been wheeling much I did want to set it up where I could, and be successful at it. With that hanging down it's just another thing to get bent.

I recommend doing the adjustable track bar and drop pitman arm on 4.5" or higher lift.

[SeniorGustas]

Oh i'm only sitting at 3 inchs and just trying to cure my death wobble i have a toyota thats a trail rig that i have been having to drive on the rode because my death wobble is so bad, so the folks here reccomended that bracket thing. so my cherokee wont be used for much wheeling maybe some old logging trails here and there but nothing serious

[SeniorGustas]

I'm also trying to save my wallet!

[NW99XJ]

anyone have a link to where to get one?

Here ya go:
4 Wheel Parts - 27.99 (http://www.4wheelparts.com/Lift-Kits-Suspensions-Shocks/Track-Bar-Relocation-Bracket.aspx?t_c=1&t_s=101&t_pt=4303&t_pn=skyjtbf&utm_source=google&utm_medium=froogle&utm_campaign=product&emlprox=out&ppcfon=1&gclid=CJableOI_bgCFbAWMgodgBQADg)

Summit Racing - 27.92 (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sja-jtbf/overview/make/jeep/model/cherokee)

Skyjacker JTBF Jeep Track Bar Bracket / Fro : Amazon.com : Automotive@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41pzyAfFFhL.@@AMEPARAM@@41pzyAfFFhL

(By the way, if you decide to go thru Amazon, click on our amazon banner at the home page FIRST, and your purchase will help support XJ Talk!) :D

[SeniorGustas]

Thank you, i'll let you know how it turns out. and this is known to stop death wobble in some cases?

[SeniorGustas]

Ordered i used amazon through XJTALK for the free 2 day shipping. Would a steering stabilizer or power steering pump help death wobbles at all? i'd love to drive my jeep feeling comfortable again.

[XJ Wheeler]

Ordered i used amazon through XJTALK for the free 2 day shipping. Would a steering stabilizer or power steering pump help death wobbles at all? i'd love to drive my jeep feeling comfortable again.

The stabilizer MIGHT help hide it some (if your current one isn't functioning well), but there would still be a problem.

The pump has no affect on the wobble.

Sent via messenger pigeon - i talk, he types.

[NW99XJ]

Death Wobble is extremely difficult to try to diagnose and fix, because it is actually caused by slop in the entire steering system as a whole, not by just one component.
To diagnose and fix Death Wobble correctly, you need to look for “play” everywhere in the steering and front suspension system, searching for anything that could have “play” in it.
These are the steering components to check over, for looseness or improper movement:

-Tie Rod Ends (all four, plus the upper track bar end)
-Upper and Lower Ball Joints
-Track Bar Mounting Bracket Bolts
-Steering Box Bolts
-Track Bar Ends

Even though angles of the track bar in relation to the drag link are vitally important, the most common culprit for the cause of death wobble is the track bar itself. Even if your angles are perfect, if your bar ends are shot, you're done for.
Over time, the tie rod end on the upper portion of the track bar develops “play” in it due to wear and miles on the vehicle. The same findings often goes for the lower end bushing, which has a rubber or polyurethane isolator bushing in it, and this “slop” will allow the Dreaded Death Wobble oscillation to occur. These loose components no longer have the ability to fight off or dampen the forces applied laterally to the axle as the vehicle drives down the road.
Replacing the steering stabilizer or dampener IS a good idea, especially if you've been dealing with the death wobble for a while now. The wobbling shakes EVERYTHING, and loosens up OTHER components at the same time. A new steering stabilizer is NOT a cure, more of a mask.
It will not take care of an underlying issue, more so just hide the true cause for whats happening.
Lastly, you'll want to get an alignment done. If the vehicle has been lifted, wheeled, components changed, altered, modified or swapped out, or if its been more than a year or so with regular use, then it might be a good idea. Poor alignment can also cause or amplify worn components and the symptoms they cause.

[SeniorGustas]

Thanks that was super helpful information im going to go ahead and take a wild guess that my bushings are probably bad, ive owned the thing for about 3 years and been going up and down trails 20 miles and hour ish and considering the previous owner (a friends dad) i highly doubt that those were ever changed. I have yet to touch suspension so im a little nervous about it. would 4 wheel parts be a good place to look for an alignment. and another question arises. I am adding MJ or Rough country shackles and coil spacer. then i am doing bushings and the bracket you suggested. is there any specific order i should do these in?

[NW99XJ]

Thanks that was super helpful information......... I am adding MJ or Rough country shackles and coil spacer. then i am doing bushings and the bracket you suggested. is there any specific order i should do these in?
No problem, glad to help out.
As to the order?.....all at once.
You really dont want to do anything like this one stage at a time.
And I would lean more towards the aftermarket shackles than the MJ shackles....strictly for strength.
Soak ANY and EVERY bolt/nut/screw you're even THINKING of touching in PB Blaster or KROIL several times a day, for at least a week before you even pick up a wrench. Have a source of heat on hand (like a cheap propane torch) just in case you need some extra help getting a bolt out. Plan on a full weekend if you've never done anything like this before.

[SeniorGustas]

I did my basic 3 inch rough country lift in the garage about 7 months back and replaced the shackles (more stock ones) never had bolt break so i hope they'll still come out easily! my girlfriends dad has full car lift i plan to utilize and get this thing done in a day or two! lift and steering such.

[SeniorGustas]

well i just bought a pair of MJ coils from a member of XJ talk. Im looking into getting a 1inch puck for the front now and maybe a 1 inch block in the rear..? my aal sucks

[NW99XJ]

Stay away from blocks buddy.
They can crack/explode, and can lead to axle wrap.
http://activesuspension.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Axlewrap.jpeg

Axle wrap is the rotation of an axle opposite the circular torque created by acceleration. Axle wrap is normally a vehicles problem caused by soft or worn out springs, or in this case the separation of the springs in height from the axle itself. Axle wrap is one of the major drive shaft breakage problems in lifted vehicles. If the axle rotates too much, the pinion yoke and the drive shaft yoke will hit and pry themselves out of position.

[SeniorGustas]

im convinced! well looks like im going to be sitting somewhere around 3.5-4 inch lift now. i have the 3 inch rough country coils and aal. just bought the MJ shackles and a .75 inch puck. im planning to cram 33s under it once that addition is complete.

[SeniorGustas]

will 12.5 inch wide tire fir on and 8 inch wheel?

[4.3LXJ]

Yes