Help! Problem with the TAP portion of the Hack and Tap

[XjJeepacorn]

Ok so I'm hacking and taping my np231 on my bench, it ok because there is still a transfer case on my jeep! So here's the freak out... So the instructions that came with the new yoke say to leave an inch and 1/4 of the splines and I've read a couple write up that say the same thing... So when I put the new yoke on the end after hacking there is space in there between the shaft and the hole where the bolt goes through the new yoke!!! Now I think this is ok but I haven't read anything about a space and that just seems sketch even though that bolt isn't really supporting much and it's just there to hold on the new yoke will some one just reassure me please lmao .. Just say Naomi you're ok lmao please!!!

[XjJeepacorn]

Ok so this is the bolt that goes on 1841

And this is it just sitting in the hole against the shaft, that and a washer won't leave much thread holding it in place should I go grab a new one tomorrow or am I just being a freak? It just looks a little sketch to me

1842

[4.3LXJ]

Naomi, you talking about the threads showing on that bolt?

[Mudderoy]

Ok so I'm hacking and taping my np231 on my bench, it ok because there is still a transfer case on my jeep! So here's the freak out... So the instructions that came with the new yoke say to leave an inch and 1/4 of the splines and I've read a couple write up that say the same thing... So when I put the new yoke on the end after hacking there is space in there between the shaft and the hole where the bolt goes through the new yoke!!! Now I think this is ok but I haven't read anything about a space and that just seems sketch even though that bolt isn't really supporting much and it's just there to hold on the new yoke will some one just reassure me please lmao .. Just say Naomi you're ok lmao please!!!

Looks like the hole wasn't drilled deep enough, or they provided you with too short a bolt. Mine is a Tom Woods and the bolt and washer are tight against the yoke.

[XjJeepacorn]

I hadn't drilled yet I was just showing the space, and that when I do finish drilling that's about how much it will be threaded in there

[XjJeepacorn]

Sketch lol

[4.3LXJ]

You need to drill and tap deeper. Remember you must drill deeper than you tap. The first 1/3" does not cut full threads

[XjJeepacorn]

There is a good half inch or so between the yoke and the shaft in there ... Started to drill

1843

[XjJeepacorn]

So I will need a longer bolt...

[4.3LXJ]

Longer bolts are easy

[XjJeepacorn]

Yep :)

[XjJeepacorn]

Yeah so I'm not very good at taping, all I managed to do was strip the f out of the hole... I might have to break down and get one of my friends to tap it for me

[4.3LXJ]

Guys do it better :D

[XjJeepacorn]

What ever lol I've just never attempted to tap anything before, but I'm sure when I ask my Toyota buddy to tap my hole he'll get slightly excited lmao

[4.3LXJ]

The biggest thing is to keep the tap completely straight with the hole and not get it wobbling. Use some oil also to make clean cuts

[msmoorenburg]

another good hit is keep the tap clean. turn it 1 to 2 turns in and back up a tad. lots of cutting oil / lube

[4.3LXJ]

Also if you use a drill press to drill a hole, put the tap in the chuck and twist the chuck. It makes the tap completely straight. You an back it out after it starts and use the tap handle

[Carves]

What ever lol I've just never attempted to tap anything before, but I'm sure when I ask my Toyota buddy to tap my hole he'll get slightly excited lmao



You Jeepacorn mob are sooooooooo rude.



:rotfl2: :rotfl2:

[XjJeepacorn]

Thanks for the tips guys its greatly appreciated

[XjJeepacorn]

You Jeepacorn mob are sooooooooo rude.



:rotfl2: :rotfl2:

You're just jealous lol ;) and I am sure you are fully aware that this is the sort of "shop talk" that flys around all the time :)

[TimmyTXJ]

Also if you use a drill press to drill a hole, put the tap in the chuck and twist the chuck. It makes the tap completely straight. You an back it out after it starts and use the tap handle

X2 on using lots of cutting fluid. I would recommend tapping by hand, if you don't do this sort of machining a lot, using a drill press is a recipe for disaster. Go slow, clean the tap often, and keep it as straight as possible... I've broken plenty of taps in my time and it's not fun clearing the hole out afterwards. Good luck with it!

[NW99XJ]

X2 on using lots of cutting fluid. I would recommend tapping by hand, if you don't do this sort of machining a lot, using a drill press is a recipe for disaster. Go slow, clean the tap often, and keep it as straight as possible... I've broken plenty of taps in my time and it's not fun clearing the hole out afterwards. Good luck with it!
x2!!!!!!
Yea...a broken tap in an output shaft is NO FUN AT ALL!
And extraction is almost impossible afterwards.....
Here's what that looks like.... (inspiration for doing it right)

Cut, Drilled, and now Tapping......
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/5596/drivelinesye011.jpg

SNAP!!!!
http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/5167/drivelinesye014.jpg

http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/4008/drivelinesye013.jpg

Doing it right.....
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/8615/070811183401.jpg

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/4179/070811185200.jpg

Reinstalled....
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/2306/drivelinesye018.jpg

Finished Product:
http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/221/drivelinesye021.jpg


I THOUGHT I was doing everything right too.....My drill was straight, I was tapping using a TON of cutting oil.... AND I was only going a turn or two at a time..... I was nearly done when the break happened. I wanted to make sure I had plenty of drill, and tap depth for the bolt, the last thing I wanted was for the bolt to bottom out before the yoke flange was seated properly.
Just goes to show, that even if you are careful, the worst can still happen.

I ended up having to replace the output shaft. Not fun, but not impossible, and a lot less work than I thought it was going to be.
To get things perfect I took it into work, and used one of our lathes to get it dead-nuts-on. It is possible that the tap I was using was inferior, it could be that my drill was not perfectly straight, it could be that there were gremlins in the cutting oil.....I dunno....what I do know, is if I were to do this again, I would either switch out a 242 for a 231, and get a proper SYE kit, or I would take the output shaft out of the case and do it on a lathe.....
Now I know not everyone has access to a lathe....but everyone DOES have access to a machine shop..... I would recommend if your trying to do this, that it MIGHT be worth it in the long run to pay $50 and have a shop drill and tap it for you.
Just my two cents......
Hope the pics are of some use or at least somewhat inspirational.
Good luck!

[4.3LXJ]

The drilling and tapping is really the weak point for the do it yourselfer. The lathe is the best thing and what I would do also

[XjJeepacorn]

x2!!!!!!
Yea...a broken tap in an output shaft is NO FUN AT ALL!
And extraction is almost impossible afterwards.....
Here's what that looks like.... (inspiration for doing it right)

Cut, Drilled, and now Tapping......
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/5596/drivelinesye011.jpg

SNAP!!!!
http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/5167/drivelinesye014.jpg

http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/4008/drivelinesye013.jpg

Doing it right.....
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/8615/070811183401.jpg

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/4179/070811185200.jpg

Reinstalled....
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/2306/drivelinesye018.jpg

Finished Product:
http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/221/drivelinesye021.jpg


I THOUGHT I was doing everything right too.....My drill was straight, I was tapping using a TON of cutting oil.... AND I was only going a turn or two at a time..... I was nearly done when the break happened. I wanted to make sure I had plenty of drill, and tap depth for the bolt, the last thing I wanted was for the bolt to bottom out before the yoke flange was seated properly.
Just goes to show, that even if you are careful, the worst can still happen.

I ended up having to replace the output shaft. Not fun, but not impossible, and a lot less work than I thought it was going to be.
To get things perfect I took it into work, and used one of our lathes to get it dead-nuts-on. It is possible that the tap I was using was inferior, it could be that my drill was not perfectly straight, it could be that there were gremlins in the cutting oil.....I dunno....what I do know, is if I were to do this again, I would either switch out a 242 for a 231, and get a proper SYE kit, or I would take the output shaft out of the case and do it on a lathe.....
Now I know not everyone has access to a lathe....but everyone DOES have access to a machine shop..... I would recommend if your trying to do this, that it MIGHT be worth it in the long run to pay $50 and have a shop drill and tap it for you.
Just my two cents......
Hope the pics are of some use or at least somewhat inspirational.
Good luck!

Thanks for sharing this! I hope it helps someone in the future, I don't have a fancy machine thing like you had there!!
I like that flange thing you got on the end there it looks pretty solid, I got my kit from Iron Rock, so it just bolts directly over the u joint. Can you explain the advantages that yours would have over the style I went with? Apparently I didn't do enough home work! Btw your avatar looks frimilliar! Thanks again!

[XjJeepacorn]

The drilling and tapping is really the weak point for the do it yourselfer. The lathe is the best thing and what I would do also

Yeah I got in crap, my buddy was like you have to stop doing everything by your self all the time (this will never change with me!) you should have just brought it over to begin with! So Toyota Mike will be getting a shout out in my next write up! But I did get to see how it's supposed to be done by someone who has done it many times, for kicks I think I'm gonna stick the rest of the nub in a vice and just practice till I get the hang of it before I try anything else that involves tapping!

[Roblaza]

Makes me somewhat nervous. I have to do the same HnT on mine, but I got the dirtbount kit...it's not a flange type, rather a yoke.

CLICKY Here (http://www.dirtboundoffroad.com/featured/slip-yoke-eliminator-hd-yoke-style-by-dirtbound-offroad/)

I'm waiting for the warmer weather to come cause I have to do mine in the driveway LOL

[XjJeepacorn]

Get a piece of hardened steel and practice first. It wasn't a complete disaster on my end my friend still managed to get enough of the 3/8 threaded so that it didn't need to be drilled out bigger and a bigger tap. He did it on the bench by hand with nothing else but me holding the damn case so it wouldn't move around. He also used a special socket made to hold taps and a ratchet and he popped it into 4 high so the shaft wouldn't spin and he had this thing that looks like a bike chain attached to an end that looks like a vice grip to hold the shaft. If your really worried I'm sure any mechanic would tap it for you for cheap.

[XjJeepacorn]

He turned it pretty hard,
Harder then I did, allot harder cutting oil obviously! But when I did it I was scared of breaking the tap so not knowing I didn't go nearly as hard! Of you really want I'd ship you my cut off nub to practice on

[NW99XJ]

If you really want I'd ship you my cut off nub to practice on
This brings up an excellent idea....for all those who are going to attempt a Hack-n-Tap SYE...after you do the "hack" part....you'll have a little stubby piece of output shaft, that you could then put into a vice, and use as a practice piece....to get the hang of what its like to drill into and tap the hardened steel of an output shaft.....


Thanks for sharing this! I hope it helps someone in the future, I don't have a fancy machine thing like you had there!!
I didn't have it either, until I realized that we were running a weekend shift...I completely lucked out there..... I just so happen to be lucky enough to have access to a machine shop here at work...if it wasnt for that, I would probably have taken it to a machine shop to have this done.
(the second time around)


I like that flange thing you got on the end there it looks pretty solid, I got my kit from Iron Rock, so it just bolts directly over the u joint. Can you explain the advantages that yours would have over the style I went with? Apparently I didn't do enough home work!
Actually I think that YOUR style, is where the advantages are....the flange I have is the older Rubicon Express (p/n: RE1807) Hack n Tap kit.
For the older transfer cases, there would have also been a nose cone seal that would have gone along with this..... BUT...I dont know if these are still being made...I think you can still get them HERE (http://www.jeep4x4center.com/slip-yoke-eliminator-kit-hd-np231-only-rub-re1807.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=productfeed&utm_campaign=cse&gclid=CJ_5jomRrLYCFSHZQgod3goARw) at Morris 4x4 center for about $99.... but YOUR kit has the advantage of keeping thing closer to the T-case, this reduces shear forces, and allows (probably) for the use of a stock FRONT drive line from a ZJ or XJ...the kit I used spaces things out just a bit more, and unfortunately in my case, I had to have the donor front driveshaft I pulled from a ZJ, shortened in order to fit.
Another advantage of your style, is that with things being closer to the T-case, the over all angle of the driveline in relation to the pinion at the axle, is reduced slightly. (at least in comparison)
Now even with all that... I have really put this system thru its paces.... and it has held up quite well to all that I have put it thru.




Btw your avatar looks frimilliar! Thanks again!
No problem!.... as far as my avatar..... Its a picture of the side of my jeep from one of the first wheeling trips I took it on.
I am a member of both NAXJA, as well as Jeepforum, and I use the same avatar on both of those sites as well.
I'm fairly active on both those other sites (as well as here)...so if you have visited either of those, there's a chance you have come across a post or three of mine.

[XjJeepacorn]

That's probably it! I'm not a
Member of jeep forum but I have read it plenty of times for write ups and things, there is allot of good info there too. As for NAXJA I think I have 2 posts lol!

I'm thinking I should change the title of this thread to help others with this kind of thing. When the thread dies off it won't come up so much, and yes allot of great idea sharing going on here thank you everyone for chiming in good stuff :)

^^^ I can't edit my first post :( I wasn't thinking I was just having a freak out lol

[XjJeepacorn]

Yay!

[Mudderoy]

Yay!

Did you get it tapped? :cool:

[XjJeepacorn]

Yep, my friend did it for me on Monday, I'm going to install the new transfer case on the weekend :)

My jeep has the 242 and I screwed it up last fall while flexing on a rock lol it binds up when I turn so I just have to take wide turns with it lol. My new one is the 231J

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/04/u8ajudys.jpg


^^^ lol

[NW99XJ]

HAHHAhaaaaa.....
"i'm asking you to tap my hole"....priceless......

So whats all this about your 242 "binding when you turn"?!?!?!?!?
That doesn't make any sense (to me) ....the drive-shaft is independent of the knuckles.....
I would like to know more about this issue.... how it manifested itself, the symptoms it presented, and what , if any, was the determining cause.

[4.3LXJ]

Josh, the 242s have a fluid coupling that wears out and when it does, it doesn't slip well and starts acting like a 231 in when in full time 4WD

[NW99XJ]

OH!!!!.....I thought she was talking about just when driving around in 2wd.... Thats why I was confused.
Thats weird.... I have hardly ever used my fulltime 4wd....
Prob only a couple times in the snow since I've owned it.

[NW99XJ]

If I could I would just swap a 231 in there..... But I would have to build it up first.
2Lo kit, maybe a 4:1 mod, HD chain....etc.

[4.3LXJ]

Get a 231C and start swapping parts over for the heavy chain. My son has a 2Lo kit he will probably never use

[XjJeepacorn]

I don't see the point of 2 low, might as well just used 4 low lol what's the difference between the 231c and the j ?

[XjJeepacorn]

OH!!!!.....I thought she was talking about just when driving around in 2wd.... Thats why I was confused.
Thats weird.... I have hardly ever used my fulltime 4wd....
Prob only a couple times in the snow since I've owned it.

I haven't lately, but in the winter I use it on the city streets when there is like a foot of snow

[4.3LXJ]

I don't see the point of 2 low, might as well just used 4 low lol what's the difference between the 231c and the j ?

There are a couple of advantages to the 2Lo kit. One is if you have locked your front, you can remain in low range and shift the front axle out for situations where you need to turn tight, which can be difficult with a locker. The other is if you have a 5 speed and you are in rush hour traffic. You can cruise in low speed without slipping the clutch so much or using it much at all for that matter and if you have an auto, you can reduce tranny heat by not being in lower rpms which cause more heat.

The 231C is the Chevy version and has a wider chain and sprockets than the Jeep version

[XjJeepacorn]

Ahhhh :)

[NW99XJ]

There are a couple of advantages to the 2Lo kit. One is if you have locked your front, you can remain in low range and shift the front axle out for situations where you need to turn tight, which can be difficult with a locker. The other is if you have a 5 speed and you are in rush hour traffic. You can cruise in low speed without slipping the clutch so much or using it much at all for that matter and if you have an auto, you can reduce tranny heat by not being in lower rpms which cause more heat.

The 231C is the Chevy version and has a wider chain and sprockets than the Jeep version

...ya learn something new every day.......
That all REALLY Good info Steve....thanks...
I think I may be looking now for a 231C donor case to build up and swap.
So let me do a quick hijack, and ask a couple questions.....
Is the 231C's case the same as the J? Meaning is it any longer, or wider, and will it mount the same, and if so will the output shafts be in the same position?
Secondly, ....do you happen to know the input spline count of these?
I'm definitely gonna have to do some research on this topic....
....and perhaps give your son's 2-lo kit a good home!

[4.3LXJ]

To do research, check with Frank at Serious Off Road. But here is the skinny. The input spline count and bolt pattern on the underdrive portion of the case are different so you cannot use the that part of the case or input. But the sprockets and chain interchange so you get a donor case and pull the chain and sprockets out and any bearings you might need and transfer them to the Jeep case. The 231C was designed to take the additional horsepower and GVW of a pickup up to 3/4 ton I think.

[XjJeepacorn]

What GM trucks can you get the 231C off ? All of them?

[Mudderoy]

What GM trucks can you get the 231C off ? All of them?

The 4x4 ones. :rotfl2: :poke:

[4.3LXJ]

What GM trucks can you get the 231C off ? All of them?

Any S10 will work fine

[XjJeepacorn]

Thanks :) this is great info to know I may just grab 3 of them next free parts day (50 bucks all you can carry) and sell them on kijiji or something!

[XjJeepacorn]

The 4x4 ones. :rotfl2: :poke:

:P ;) lol