Oil and zinc

[Paddletrucker]

I know, I know, this has been beat to death. But, for those who might find it interesting.......

My 4.0 has had AmsOil run in it since it was almost new. It's got 237,000 on it now and seems to run good. Oil Pressure when the engine is warm is 60 on the road and 40 at an idle. I read about the change in the oil specs to remove the ZDDP zinc additive and began reading on it and the affect it has on flat tappet engines.

I've been through this before. My semi is a 1996 model and has an old Caterpillar in it. A few years ago, they changed the specs on the oil for heavy duty engines for the same reason... emissions. They said the oil was "backward compatible" but all of us who had older engines and ran oil analysis test began to see things we didn't like. That's why I'm concerned about the ZDDP in my flat tappet 4.0. Lots of guys said they weren't going to worry about it, but I saw the oil analysis reports. The new oil was tearing up engines. I run an additive I really believe in, called Motorkote, in everything I have (including my Jeep) and I attribute that to the reason I didn't have the same problems and ran that engine to 1.8 million miles before a mechanic screwed up and ruined it for me. I'd most likely have put over 2 million on it.

So, reading about oil options for my Jeep on the forums, I've seen a commonality.....run Rotella T diesel engine oil. OK, I HATE Rotella. I can no more bring myself to pour that crap in my Jeep than the Caterpillar that makes my living. Search on.....

Various racing oils seem to be popular. Some just go ahead and continue to use what's factory recommended

Since my Jeep has always had AmsOil run in it by the previous owner and I continued to use it, I found this and am thinking this is probably what I'll end up doing.
http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/motor-oil/gasoline/z-rod-10w-30-synthetic-motor-oil/

My jeep is due for and oil change and I'm doing my wife's tonight, so I'll go ahead and do mine with it. When I went and picked up oil and filters for them, I found this. If you're worried about the lack of ZDDP, this might be a viable option. I'm going to go ahead and use it until I start running the AmsOil with the zinc additive.

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj298/picsofnate/8b2f7014-3b39-45f2-b349-b5705d35ba1f.jpg
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj298/picsofnate/P1000089.jpg

[Mudderoy]

I started using this stuff...

1662

[Paddletrucker]

Hmmmm....interesting, Tony.

What does that stuff cost? The stuff I found was really expensive, $30!!

But, I want my 4.0 to be around a while longer.

I guess that stuff has the ZDDP in it?

[Mudderoy]

Hmmmm....interesting, Tony.

What does that stuff cost? The stuff I found was really expensive, $30!!

But, I want my 4.0 to be around a while longer.

I guess that stuff has the ZDDP in it?

Yes sir. I think it was $12 or $14 on Amazon.com.

[bluedragon436]

Might have to look into one of these additives when I do my RMS and oil pan seal... figure I got to do an oil change anyways... might as well make it a good for the 4.0 oil change...

[bigjim350]

I run regular oil in mine and rarely change it. Still runs around 40 psi while idleing, and its a 92. Never seen any bad effects of running non-zinc oil, even in the high HP motors ive built.

[4.3LXJ]

I run Valvoline Racing Oil, which has the highest zinc content of any off the shelf oil

[Metlic53]

last oil change i put in a bottle of that zinc stuff, i got it from smileys racing products, i cant remember the name it was 5 bucks but i'll go back in there and see what it is. he sells offroad oil too that has tons of zinc, at least thats what he told me.

[whowey]

Even Rotella has had its Zinc levels reduced now as an 'emissions' issue. A few years ago, one of the VP's of Solus(the shell co. for RDP that runs Shell in the US) told a meeting of commercial sales reps that they were going to 'align' all of their products to reduce production costs and meet emissions standards. They knew that folks were using their diesel products in non-diesel applications and did not want the hassle over it. The most current VOAs I can find, they haven't dipped below the 1k level. But it seems that may be the direction they are going.

The truth is.. its not the Zinc that is the emissions issue. It's the Phosphorous that is pared in the ZDDP. The Phosphorous ends up in the exhaust stream and it destroys the catalytic in the convertor.


I'll go on record and say I REALLY hate additives. There simply isn't enough control over what does and doesn't go into them. Here is a VOA for MotorKote.. showing its not much more than some 20w base stock and detergents....
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2319873#Post2319873 Their website makes it look like its chlorine based, which brings all of those issues into play.

Some of the racing oils have great starting levels of addtives, but really shear quickly due the fact they are designed to be changed very frequently.

[msmoorenburg]

Watch this video GREAT info on oil its a ex Chrysler Engineer. 3~5 mins in for the oil and around 10 the rest is on the SRT tranny

http://youtu.be/m_toEAYSOB0

[prcjeep]

Can Ed Peters be our next XJTalk show guest???????? That would be awesome!

[LizardRunner]

I run valvoline racing oil in both vehicles, since the lat 60's I've always used this oil in every vehicle I've owned.

[prcjeep]

Watch this video GREAT info on oil its a ex Chrysler Engineer. 3~5 mins in for the oil and around 10 the rest is on the SRT tranny

http://youtu.be/m_toEAYSOB0

What i get from this video is that it should be okay to use mobile 1 high milage 10-40 in my AX-15. It is difficult to find an oil that meets the specs in the manual.

[Paddletrucker]

What i get from this video is that it should be okay to use mobile 1 high milage 10-40 in my AX-15. It is difficult to find an oil that meets the specs in the manual.

I wondered the same thing. My jeep is also an AX-15 manual. I never was sure, though, if he was talking about an auto tranny or a manual. In not at all familiar with SRT stuff. Very interesting in any case. Sounds like the guy knows his stuff.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[whowey]

What i get from this video is that it should be okay to use mobile 1 high milage 10-40 in my AX-15. It is difficult to find an oil that meets the specs in the manual.


Both Amsoil and Redline offer fluids that meet the specs without the sulfur. The genesis of the Chrysler recommendation to run 10w-30 motor oil was that they no longer wanted to offer the GL-4 fluid in their service centers to reduce inventory costs related to a transmission no longer being offered, and so few under warranty.

The motor oil is acceptable, but you would need to reduce the service interval. If you are just street driving, it wouldn't be much of a change. But if you have big tires, wheel hard, tow alot of weight, etc. You would need to reduce the interval quite a bit.


Very cool in the video to see an Ex-employee admit that Chryco engineered to lower their cost rather than what is best for the transmission.
Anyone know how long ago the video was shot???

His information on how much Zinc Mobil 1 High Mileage oil contains is incorrect.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Files/Mobil_1_Product_Guide.pdf
The top of page two shows that the HM oils only contain 1100 ppm of Zinc at the time of the chart.

[Paddletrucker]

I wonder about the V-Twin oil. 1700ppm and 20w50. I think I like the looks of that better

[whowey]

a 20w-50 wouldn't have a terribly different viscosity than that of a 75w-90 gear lube. A little thicker cold and a bit thinner warm.

A reduced change interval and keeping a close eye on the drained oil for yellow metals from the synchros.

The pricing I am seeing online though, I'd run either the Amsoil or the Redline first. Both are cheaper than the V-twin prices I found.

Amsoil MTG $14.80
Redline MT-90 $14.50

Mobil V-Twin 20w50 $15.50

[4.3LXJ]

I am running Redline synthetic high heat in my tranny. Made for high heat trannys like in motorhome applications. Certainly no complaints yet.

[Mudderoy]

As soon as I get my oil leak solved I'll be switching back to the Mobile 1 high mileage synthetic (WITH ZINC) and I'll stop using the additive.