Input on gear changes?

[billyjack]

Ok guys, im going to lower my gears in my 1996 xj 4.0L 5-speed.
running 3.05's now and they are causeing me to glaze my clutch trail riding.
I drive this rig on the road occasionally, it is street legal and licensed.
im running a dana 30 in the front and a chrysler 8.25 rear
i dont drive this over 65mph

my question is do i drop to 3.73 or 4.11.

i know i need to order a larger carrier for the dana 30 and was wondering if the carrier out of a 1997 grand cherokee dana 30 with 3.73 gears is the same carrier i will be ordering?
(no need to order it if i have one on the bench already.)

looking foward to hearing all your ideas

[NW99XJ]

The biggest question is what is your current tire size and is there any chance at all that you'll be going to a different tire size down the road....this will determine your gear set up/size.

[denverd1]

My theory is to go as deep as you can. 33's are best with 4.56s and would require minimal trimming and bumpstopping. if those are ever in your future, then do it once and be done with it

[billyjack]

Sorry guys, forgot to tell you tire size. 33's is what im running and have no intentions of going any bigger. the XJ im talking about is the one in my garage if that helps.

[NW99XJ]

Then I would go 4.56's....
With 33's its the closest to stock gear ratio as you'll get.
Deep enough to give you some good crawl offroad, and friendly enough on the street that you can still climb a hill in the fast lane.
28-30's = 3.05 - 3.55
30-31's = 4.10
32-33's = 4.56
35-37's = 4.88
38-40's = 5.13

[4.3LXJ]

Since you are only driving on road occasionally, put some 4.88s n and call it good. Since you are using it mostly as a trail rig, then I would suggest going old school and gear it for that. You will still be able to drive at 65 mph and you will have some higher rpms for sure, but your clutch will be happier and you will like it better. As for the front carrier, yes the 3.73 carrier will work.

[billyjack]

Thanks for all the help. not only have i made up my mind on what gears to use i have also saved 120.00 on not buying a new carrier. thanks for everything

[4.3LXJ]

So OK, don't keep us in suspense, what are you going to get?

[denverd1]

Thanks for all the help. not only have i made up my mind on what gears to use i have also saved 120.00 on not buying a new carrier. thanks for everything

Yep, good to know on the carrier

[billyjack]

4.56's are the winner today!

[xj4life2]

Since you are only driving on road occasionally, put some 4.88s n and call it good. Since you are using it mostly as a trail rig, then I would suggest going old school and gear it for that. You will still be able to drive at 65 mph and you will have some higher rpms for sure, but your clutch will be happier and you will like it better. As for the front carrier, yes the 3.73 carrier will work.

What he said ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 4.88's

[xjmarc]

I think most people missed that you have a 5 speed. You'll be pushing some high RPMs on the road with 4.56s or 4.88s. 3.55s to 3.73s would put you in stock to slighty lower range with 33s. 4.56s and 33s are great with an auto but pretty low for a 5 speed.

[4.3LXJ]

I knew he had a five speed. But this is a dedicated trail rig with very limited road use. Kind of like having a CJ with 5.38s

[gary63]

I have 5:38 in my cj amd it crawles over everything and most of the time in 2 wheel drive but then I do have a overdrive for the road.

[4.3LXJ]

4.88s and 33" tires and 14% overdrive in the tranny would be about the same.

[xjmarc]

I knew he had a five speed. But this is a dedicated trail rig with very limited road use. Kind of like having a CJ with 5.38s

Dedicated trail rig that he drives on the road and said around 65mph. With those gears he'll be pushing some serious RPMs. I agree it'd be good on the trail but there is a such thing as too much gear. Got a buddy running 4.88s in a Yota with twin cases and in lo lo he can take off in 5th gear but in low he still takes off in 3rd and if it's muddy he can't get enough wheel speed to clean his tires. I run an auto with 38s and 4.56s and while they aren't as low as I'd like they still pull great and if it sees any pavement it drives great. 5.38s would be great for me and my tires are quite a bit bigger than the OP is talking about.

[4.3LXJ]

I understand what you are saying, but he said he rarely is on the road. And 4.88s are ten percent higher than 5.38s. 4.88s are as low as he can go anyway

[billyjack]

Ok guys, everyone has great ideas and i appreciate everyones input. was is no way trying to cause a flame so to put this to rest......
I have ordered the 4.56 set already and will be installing them this coming weekend. once i get the rig back out on the trail i will report back on if i should have gone lower or if these are spot on.

Side note: installed the "thumb trottle" saturday. ofcourse with out gears im just sitting in the rig playing with it and not going anywhere. but i will also report on that after i get it back from the trail. cost me a total of $4.00 and looks clean.

Side note2: we are also working on converting the rear "disk brakes" from a 1997 grand cherokee Dana 35 over to my 1996 cherokee chrysler 8.25.
for all you gear heads out there im sure you all understand they wont fit. well we made the drivers side work and are working on the passanger side as we speak. again wont be able to test till gears come in but i will report.

Again thanks for all the help!

[billyjack]

GEARS ARE IN......IMPORTANT NOTICE!!!!!

First off i would like to thank everyone on here for their input on my gear change. lots of great ideas and remarks. i did go with the 4.56's and to be honest i could not be happier! just what i needed for the 1st gear crawing i was looking for and enough ass to snap necks if i choose to!

Now for some info that might come in handy down the road for anyone wanting to change gears....

I ordered a set of MOTIVE 4.46 for my dana 30 front and chrysler 8.25 rear.
The front went in with no problems what so ever.
The rear was another story,i noticed right off the bat taking the 8.25 ring out of the box at how thick it was. almost 2x as think as most rings ive seen.
After getting everthing together and i started installing axles i seen that there was no way the 'center pin' was going to fit. no matter what i did it was just not going to fit all the way through.

I called MOTIVE and was informed that this was a tolarance issue with their 4.46 gears on acouple of diffrent axle models and the fix was to either grind down the bottom of the ring or grind down one side of the pin from end to end. I wish i would have taken a pic of this but was just so eger to get everthing installed and try it out i just wsnt thinking. After chooseing to grind down one side of the pin it slid into place and everything went as plan.

Hope this helps anyone in the future that might come across the same problem.

[xjmarc]

That's one of the disadvantages to running lower gears on a 8.25. Shouldn't be much of an issue unless it has a locker or you're hard on it. Most folks grind the gears a bit so they don't loose any strength in the pin.

[Dredwolf]

GEARS ARE IN......IMPORTANT NOTICE!!!!!
I called MOTIVE and was informed that this was a tolarance issue with their 4.46 gears on acouple of diffrent axle models and the fix was to either grind down the bottom of the ring or grind down one side of the pin from end to end. I wish i would have taken a pic of this but was just so eger to get everthing installed and try it out i just wsnt thinking. After chooseing to grind down one side of the pin it slid into place and everything went as plan.
Hope this helps anyone in the future that might come across the same problem.

I already have the gearsets for my D30 and 8.25, and have been reading up on the possible solutions...and I will be running a PowerTrax No-slip. The idea of grinding the pin is not appealing at all.

For their "fix", are they talking about milling the mounting side of the ring? :confused: Or grinding the "toe" of 1 or more teeth?

[xjmarc]

You grind off part of a couple of teeth. Part of the fun of an axle with no carrier break and c-clip axles.

[billyjack]

If i could have used a mill i would have taken the extra off the ring but instead i choose the pin because it is much easier to replace if something were to go wrong.

[xjmarc]

If i could have used a mill i would have taken the extra off the ring but instead i choose the pin because it is much easier to replace if something were to go wrong.

If something goes wrong you will most likely be replacing everything. I had the drive pin come out in an axle and it let the center pin slide down. The combo of the drive pin and center pin floating around killed the ring and pinion.

[Dredwolf]

If something goes wrong you will most likely be replacing everything. I had the drive pin come out in an axle and it let the center pin slide down. The combo of the drive pin and center pin floating around killed the ring and pinion.

I keep coming back to the idea of grinding the pin as the more dangerous solution instead of grinding the toe of 1+ teeth....but I have read about both being done.

Obviously, gear sets have to be strong, but a decent contact pattern would not even touch the section to be ground, I would think.

[gary63]

I know it wouldn't be much grinding but I would thing it would afect the balans alittle and the case hardeding. the outer and just below the serfus is one hardness and deeper you go the softer it gets.and when you are grinding it you make any heat it could change the tooth you are working on.ask for the pin if it goes it could take everything out and that has happen to me.

[4.3LXJ]

I know it wouldn't be much grinding but I would thing it would afect the balans alittle and the case hardeding. the outer and just below the serfus is one hardness and deeper you go the softer it gets.and when you are grinding it you make any heat it could change the tooth you are working on.ask for the pin if it goes it could take everything out and that has happen to me.

All of those reasons are why when I ran into the same situation installing my new front locker I removed the ring gear and installed the Aussie Locker and then reinstalled the ring gear. In addition, some people have broken that ground cross pin or not had their locker work properly

[Dredwolf]

Well, everybody can't have non-c clip axles.......

:-p

[4.3LXJ]

But even then, you should be able to install the cross pin. At least some lunch box lockers for instance give access to the C clip after installation

[Dredwolf]

But even then, you should be able to install the cross pin. At least some lunch box lockers for instance give access to the C clip after installation

I've got a spare 8.25 I am tempted to put on the bench and "test-fit" the PowerTrax before trying it with the gear change in the axle I run.

The 2nd 8.25 I located I was able to pull myself, so I got it 100% complete, so it's what is in the XJ.

[4.3LXJ]

Trial run is nice. But don't lose those little springs

[xjmarc]

But even then, you should be able to install the cross pin. At least some lunch box lockers for instance give access to the C clip after installation

C-clips aren't the issue. With the thicker ring gear you don't have room to put in the center pin. You either grind the ring gear or center pin. Best option is to get a full case locker then you don't have to worry about the center pin.

[4.3LXJ]

That is why I remove the carrier and ring gear for those then I don't have to do any grinding, like I had to do with my front recently.

[billyjack]

Thanks for the info,now I'm just going to install a OX for the rear and not worry about it.

[Dredwolf]

Thanks for the info,now I'm just going to install a OX for the rear and not worry about it.

They officially have an OX for the 8.25 now?

27 or 29 spline?

[xjmarc]

That is why I remove the carrier and ring gear for those then I don't have to do any grinding, like I had to do with my front recently.

How do you put the shafts in and c-clips on with the carrier and ring gear removed?

[4.3LXJ]

My Aussie that is in the rear was made for a D35 with C clip. There is a slot to insert the C clip when assembled

[billyjack]

They officially have an OX for the 8.25 now?

27 or 29 spline?

27 spline.

[Mudderoy]

I keep coming back to the idea of grinding the pin as the more dangerous solution instead of grinding the toe of 1+ teeth....but I have read about both being done.

Obviously, gear sets have to be strong, but a decent contact pattern would not even touch the section to be ground, I would think.

We ground down the tooth on the ring when the 4.56s were installed in mine. I didn't like it but I liked it better with the pin in. lol

[xjmarc]

My Aussie that is in the rear was made for a D35 with C clip. There is a slot to insert the C clip when assembled

You have to have the center pin out to get the c-clips on even with the slots. I've put in quite a few of these in 8.25s, 35s and 10 bolts. The center pin holds the axle out so the c-clips can't come off. You push the shaft in, put on the clip and them pull it out as far as possible then the pin will go in. Yet another reason I don't run c-clip axles.

[4.3LXJ]

Neither do I

[Dredwolf]

Neither do I

Okay, so who wants to help fund a custom built ultra light full float D60 with alloy shafts and compact disc brakes to run 12.50-33x15's? If I can get it built without taking a 2nd job to pay for it and selling the XJ, I'll run it. :-D

[Dredwolf]

Okay, so who wants to help fund a custom built ultra light full float D60 with alloy shafts and compact disc brakes to run 12.50-33x15's? If I can get it built without taking a 2nd job to pay for it and selling the XJ, I'll run it. :-D

Crud, I forgot a ARB locker made from Unobtainum in that build list...

[4.3LXJ]

Okay, so who wants to help fund a custom built ultra light full float D60 with alloy shafts and compact disc brakes to run 12.50-33x15's? If I can get it built without taking a 2nd job to pay for it and selling the XJ, I'll run it. :-D

Ultralight D60 = 9" Ford :D

[Dredwolf]

Ultralight D60 = 9" Ford :D

Where is the Unobtainium ARB locker?:P

Honestly, I am not sure I could do that to a Ford 9....would rather have it in Ford product...

Hmmm, sell the house and get a http://www.9inchfactory.com/

Wonder if I could convince the wife?:D

[4.3LXJ]

Tell her it will be fun living in the back of the XJ