3 shops later Jeep still not fixed

[mattinsmom]

Hi

I am new to forums in general so please forgive mistakes. I am so happy to have found you, actually, my son found you. I have an '02 Wrangler with 98K and one friend + 3 repair shops that can't figure out my problem(s). Maybe someone can offer suggestions.
1: is slow to start when warm/hot
2: shudders (big time) at 62mph and up - again, when hot
3: now makes loud metal/metal sound (driver/front) when in gear and N but not in reverse.

Work done since June: New battery, new spark plugs, new fuel pump, tires balanced several times, steering column replaced and new switch, replaced ignition coil pack, cleaned throttle plate, bought 4 brand new tires, rebuilt front axle, rebuilt front driveshaft, replaced both front axle joints, installed new brake pads and calipers (front) and bled front brakes, installed new rear brake drums and shoes, changed transmission fluid and filter, checked transfer case, checked front and rear differentials, filled with ATF

Friend did all he could, Jeep shop tried everything they could think of and referred me to transmission shop. Transmission guy says not transmission probably engine. It throws misfire codes all the time but check engine light won't come on.

I'm 4k in on repairs, nothing is fixed. I'm desperate. I can't afford a new vehicle, running out of money to put into this one. Any ideas??? I'm a middle-aged housewife, I don't know how to check/fix things. Shame on me - I've never even changed a tire.:smiley-scared002: Maybe I could get suggestions on what to ask mechanics to look for.
Thanks for listening.
Amy

[bigjim350]

Does the "shudder" feel like its coming from the engine running bad or something else? The hard starting issue may be from heat soak on the injectors or from a weak starter. When you say slow to start do you mean, the starter turning slow, or the starter is spinning like normal but just takes longer to start?

[4.3LXJ]

Might want to check the bolts on the flex plate that hold your torque converter on. It is a common problem with higher milage.

[Mudderoy]

Might want to check the bolts on the flex plate that hold your torque converter on. It is a common problem with higher milage.

That happens on the Wranglers also?

[msmoorenburg]

That happens on the Wranglers also?

It can happen on everything that has a torq converter or modular clutch

[mattinsmom]

Does the "shudder" feel like its coming from the engine running bad or something else? The hard starting issue may be from heat soak on the injectors or from a weak starter. When you say slow to start do you mean, the starter turning slow, or the starter is spinning like normal but just takes longer to start?

Thank you for answering
The shudder feels like I am driving on a rumble strip but much bigger. It begins after the engine is hot (at least 20-minutes of driving) and then anytime I hit 63 or higher it shakes.The entire Jeep shakes. Once I drop below 60 everything feels fine. Honestly, it can vibrate so hard I feel like the bottom is just going to drop. It vibrated a map off of the passenger seat. Heat seems to be the trigger and it gets really hot. Once its been running for awhile I cannot put my bare hand on the hood because it is so hot.

[mattinsmom]

My son's friend took it for a spin re noise and says brakes. He's thinking the rotors need looked at. He's going to take in on Thursday. As for the starting, it feels normal but takes longer to catch.

[4.3LXJ]

Does the steering wheel shake?

[Mudderoy]

Thank you for answering
The shudder feels like I am driving on a rumble strip but much bigger. It begins after the engine is hot (at least 20-minutes of driving) and then anytime I hit 63 or higher it shakes.The entire Jeep shakes. Once I drop below 60 everything feels fine. Honestly, it can vibrate so hard I feel like the bottom is just going to drop. It vibrated a map off of the passenger seat. Heat seems to be the trigger and it gets really hot. Once its been running for awhile I cannot put my bare hand on the hood because it is so hot.

Is the shake a fast side to side motion and like Steve said, does the steering wheel move side to side like the wheels are being turned quickly to the left right left right, etc...

Did you think you were going to die when it happened? :D

If so this is caused death wobble and it is a problem with the front end steering system.

You might want to give this podcast a listen. Steve (4.3lxj) explains death wobble.

http://podcasts.xjtalk.com/index.php/2012/08/episode-41-august-12th-2012-xjtalk-com-show/

[msmoorenburg]

here is a mild case of death wobble


http://youtu.be/GupYHM1pCcY

[xj4life2]

My first guess would be to check ball joints and wheel bearings, this can be done very easily . Jack up the front , then grab a tire and try to shake from left to right, there should be no play . The try top to bottom again no play at all. The side to side will let you know wheel bearing condition and up and down ball joint condition. Either of these can cause the metal grinding noise you are hearing. Next would be the track bar bushings and mounts. With the vehicle on the ground, wheels chocked, start the XJ and have someone turn the wheel look at the track bar (runs from the pass side of the axle up to the frame) it should not move at the mounts, only the tie rod end should flex as you do this. Track bar will cause the shake but so wheel wheel balance and worn out tires. Also alignment can cause this issue. Good luck

[mattinsmom]

Does the steering wheel shake?
Yes, it vibrates too. Keys bang against the column.

[mattinsmom]

It doesn't shake strongly like the video of the death wobble and mechanic ruled out death wobble. My voice doesn't vibrate when I'm talking.

[LizardRunner]

Along with the things already mentioned above by others, I would add to the check list; front drive shaft. If you check every part that moves in some way while driving and the flex plate is in good shape and the bolts are tight it would have to be an "internal" problem like the crank shaft or transmission shaft/s. At least I think those are the only other things that could cause such a vibration that have not already been mentioned by the others.

[msmoorenburg]

Along with the things already mentioned above by others, I would add to the check list; front drive shaft. If you check every part that moves in some way while driving and the flex plate is in good shape and the bolts are tight it would have to be an "internal" problem like the crank shaft or transmission shaft/s. At least I think those are the only other things that could cause such a vibration that have not already been mentioned by the others.

A quick check would be to removed the front driveshaft. I did this and it was a huge difference. My problem was the side to side play in the driveshaft

[Brasscatz]

Another thought, and fellas please correct me if I'm on the wrong path, she mentioned when it's hot/warm and it seems that when my jeep is warm I get a binding/grinding/vibration when I come to a stop that I think is motor mounts being bad and the weak rubber softening with more heat causing my motor and trans being slightly out of alignment. I can even feel a weight shift and if I stop hard enough it seems to align. Hers is when she is moving, so could she be having the same or related motor mount/tranny mount issue?

[Mudderoy]

Another thought, and fellas please correct me if I'm on the wrong path, she mentioned when it's hot/warm and it seems that when my jeep is warm I get a binding/grinding/vibration when I come to a stop that I think is motor mounts being bad and the weak rubber softening with more heat causing my motor and trans being slightly out of alignment. I can even feel a weight shift and if I stop hard enough it seems to align. Hers is when she is moving, so could she be having the same or related motor mount/tranny mount issue?

It could be, but I was just thinking that the hot/cold thing was a coincidence. Hmmm would an automatic transmission slipping when it got hot act like this, or rather could act like this?

[Brasscatz]

Hi Amy, I was wondering if you had any updates for us

[mattinsmom]

Hi all and thank you so much for all your suggestions. Sorry so long to get back - friend in hospital (all better now)... update: I let my son's friend have a look at it...

the high-pitched scraping sound was apparently my brake rotors. Fixed and all quiet. He also noticed that my starter had not been replaced even tho everything else had. He changed that for me. Seems a little better...maybe?... but still hesitates/slow to start about 1/2 the time.

transmission folks ruled out transmission problems and flushed system.

FINALLY check engine light came on. Code is 1486 (evap - pinched hose?) but I don't see how that would effect a shudder when hot and over 60. Also, I had evap code exactly 1 year ago and replaced purge selenoid, leak detector pump, and gas cap. They smoked it and no leaks. No shuddering at that time.

The Jeep is 10yrs old and has 99k on it. I drive kids to/from school and jaunt around town. I'm on a highway 1x mo tops and I don't speed. Could I have done something in 1 years time to be throwing another evap code? I am 4k in on attempts to "fix" it. Opinions - do I give up and sell?

:bang: Amy

[gary63]

I may have miss it or going in the wrong driction but you said it is slow to start after it warms up and hot ? has anyone check the exost that year can have 3 cat. 2on the header and 1 just before the muffler 1 of then could be starting to plug up.if so my bit would be the one just in front of the muffler.

[Brasscatz]

Hmm.... if you've had the leak detection pump replaced, how about the evap canister? Also, as for the hesitation, could your fuel filter need replacing? I wouldn't give up and sell, you've spent so much money already that you'd spend even more on a new vehicle when you're so close to finding the issue at hand.

[Brasscatz]

Here is an interesting read.... http://autorepair.about.com/library/a/1h/bl010h.htm

EVAP/Purge Solenoid:
The duty cycle EVAP canister purge solenoid (DCP) regulates the rate of vapor flow from the EVAP canister to the intake manifold. The Powertrain Control Module (PCM) operates the solenoid.

During the cold start warm-up period and the hot start time delay, the PCM does not energize the solenoid. When de-energized, no vapors are purged. The PCM de-energizes the solenoid during open loop operation.

The engine enters closed loop operation after it reaches a specified temperature and the time delay ends. During closed loop operation, the PCM cycles (energizes and de-energizes) the solenoid 5 or 10 times per second , depending upon operating conditions. The PCM varies the vapor flow rate by changing solenoid pulse width. Pulse width is the amount of time that the solenoid is energized. The PCM adjusts solenoid pulse width based on engine operating condition.

Vapor Canister:
A maintenance free, EVAP canister is used on all vehicles. The EVAP canister is filled with granules of an activated carbon mixture. Fuel vapors entering the EVAP canister are absorbed by the charcoal granules.

Fuel tank pressure vents into the EVAP canister. Fuel vapors are temporarily held in the canister until they can be drawn into the intake manifold. The duty cycle EVAP canister purge solenoid allows the EVAP canister to be purged at predetermined times and at certain engine operating conditions.

[mattinsmom]

Thanks for all the evap info. Its a little over my head but I am reading/re-reading to understand better. One thing I didn't mention was that when I was w/ transmission guy we drove hooked into a code machine (obeII I think). it was on my lap and tossed misfire after misfire on all the cylinders. It was like watching popcorn. Does that change anything?

[4.3LXJ]

It certainly sounds like your power is cut. I can't remember, when was your last tune up?

[mattinsmom]

It certainly sounds like your power is cut. I can't remember, when was your last tune up?

last tune up was a month ago. I've now acquired a high pitched whine when I hit 50mph. :bang::bang::bang::bang::bang:

[4.3LXJ]

It seems to me someone else had that whine. I cannot remember what the diagnosis was. Where is the whine coming from?

[bluedragon436]

High pitched whine from the tires or where is the whine coming from??

[mattinsmom]

I'm pretty sure the whine is coming from the engine. Today there wasn't a whine but the check engine light that had been on (code 1486 - evap pinched hose?) started to blink at 50mph then went back to solid on when I slowed. I feel like I have to be an inch away from fixing it but I said that several thousand dollars ago.

[4.3LXJ]

Have you listened to it under the hood? I have one of those currently, which turns out to be an alternator bearing.

[XJ4IV]

Amy... first thing about all this... don't make ANY suggestions as to what the problem is to a mechanic cause that mechanic will ONLY focus on that issue and then will tell you that part needs replacement... wether or not it will FIX your main issue! I work at a shop and we pride ourselves on honesty... we give a 100% diagnosis and if we are wrong on the repair... we eat the cost and you get the labor free! best thing is when you bring it to a shop just tell them everything VERY vague... I know that sounds like a jerk thing to do to a mechanic but he will then proceed to figure out whts wrong the correct way... AFTER he test drives it!... just out of curiosity do you guys have a Christian Brothers automotive out there?

[mattinsmom]

I left my Jeep w/ shop over the weekend. They chose not to try to fix anything because they found the frame thinning on the passenger side. They knew I was thinking about trading it in. Tomorrow I will be looking for a new vehicle. Thank you all for your support in brainstorming this one.

[bluedragon436]

Sorry you werent able to get issue remedied.... hopr you are able to find a vehicle you want and can get a good deal worked out..

[Brasscatz]

Hope all works out well for you. I'd say get a Cherokee ;)

[mattinsmom]

no Christian Brothers shops out here :(

[Brasscatz]

Also, I work for a huge dealership group and also used to work for Kelley Blue Book and I get to drive a ton of cars every single day, so if you need any guidance or pointers on some new cars, please feel free to let me know.