If you had to do it over again???

[TUWdave]

Hey All,
I'd like to ask you a question at the end.

Just getting started and have a clean and unmodified 96 Xj Classic. It has a4.0L Auto with 156K, NP242, Dana 30 front and Dana 35 rear. And, it's black with no rust or major damage, just clearcoat peeling but that's no problem.
I just turned 60 on 10/5 and will be retiring 12/1/12. My XJ build is the first item on my "Bucket List".

Being I have time NOW after 42 years working full-time (with O/T probably around 55 years ) I don't want to do the build trial and error. My plan is to do all I can right from the start and enjoy the my XJ off road ASAP without being in a hurry though. I have been doing a lot of on-line research and looking and reading about your rigs.

This is my plan so far and what I have on the way (not in order of build):
1. Replace with Dana 35 rear with a Dana 44 from an 89 XJ. It's on the way from an NC yard, pricey though but.......... Plan to do the rebuilt myself and install 4.10 gears. Probably will go for a heavy duty cover too.
2. Keep the Dana 30 front but rebuild and install 4.10' with HD cover
3. Replace engine and trans. Going with a GM LM7 and 4L60 auto trans both from the same 95 Avalanche. Engine and trans have 89K on them. Engine is complete with the harness, accessories, air box, fly by wire pedal, etc.. Picking them up in a NH yard on Thurs 10/11. Wanted to look the over before putting out the money. (Got a good price on both )
4. Rebuild NP242 transfer case. Parts ordered.
5. New Tires and Wheels - 35X12.5X15 tires/black 15 X 10 steel wheels
6. Lift Kit - leaning towards Rough Country 6.5" long arm kit (price reasonable)with rear spring shackle relo kit from RC too.
7. Rubber side - Clean up, inspect, repair if necessary, install unibody rail stiffeners before the lift kit install.
8. Front Bumper - Replace with winch style (Like RC's version for now)
9. Rear Bumper - Replace with one with spare tire carrier and 2" receiver.
10. Rock Sliders - 2 X 4 with integrated step
11. Roof Rack - install new or self-made rack to replace OEM rails.
12. Fender Flares - trim fenders and fab new flares from HD Aluminum. (have an idea how i want to do it and will document for all if it works. If not, oh well, looks like reposition of OEM flares (Don't really care fore the Bushwakers)

Paint and interior to remain unchanged for now. Tunes will be from my Ipod.

The list of 12 is not in order, just put them down for now. Going to do most of the work myself with help when I need it. After 42 years, some of the skills you learn come in very handy for personal satisfaction purposes (Toys!)

Now to the question: If you had to do it all again, would you go down a similiar path with your rigs? Thanks to all for your posts and threads. The site is great and I'm looking hearing from you to exchange ideas and have a couple after the work and fun are done.


Here's a picture of my 96 I took today. Full plan to take pics during the enitre project. My goal is to finish by the end of June 2013. Thanks in advance for your replies.

Later,
Dave

[cantab27]

howdy Dave....nice plan and will be watching your build......why the trans and engine change.. and answer your question...would have gone slightly higher with long arms..was only on 3 inch lift with 33s.......

[4.3LXJ]

Nice plan Dave. But I would suggest maybe looking at other companies for the long arm kit. RC has had trouble with their bushings and I don't think they have resolved it yet. Some may disagree with that, but I would not want to change bushings and inserts every year. Also I would recommend 4.56 gears with 35s. 4.10 is a wee bit too low. They will use the same carrier as the 4.10s. Where are you planning to wheel? No mention of locker or other traction aids.

[TUWdave]

Looking at the ARB air lockers. Thinking about putting the control switches on the transfer shifter, change swithces to push button from toggle. Would have to fab up a switch holder. I am good with an 8" lift kit. Got any suggestions. Less fender trimming and would work better with the 35's. I was on the fence between 33's and 35". Believe it or not, my better half said go all the way. :) Planned on using the 4:10's with the 33's. Actually originally intended to use 4:56's with the 35's. Novak site has a neat page under gears that lets you play with all the differnent combination of gears, tires, and RPM with each set up. Need to know the ratios of your trans and transfercase. Did you know about it? If not, check it out.

So I guess you know the answer to your last question. Yes for sure my friend. Big time. Don't want to be on of the guys that hold up everyone else on the trail.
Later.........

[TUWdave]

Wayne,
Appreciate the comments. Reason for the engine and trans is probably I ride a Harley. More grunt and thunder. Like the way GM Gen III look under the hood too. Something of a WOW factor involved too I guess.

In the future, I will rebuild and make a stroker out of the 4.0 from this Xj. Got a few ideas for a radial intake manifold I would like to try out too. It's one of those things that comes to you in the middle of the night. Kinda like and Epiphany if you know what I mean. My wife's interested in wheeling too. She may want her own once she get's a taste of it. I'll put the rebuild in her's then.
Later...............

[bigjim350]

Seems like a good list. I however wouldnt go with the motor/tranny swap. The 4.0 will have all the hp/tq you'll ever need to turn 35's with 4.56 gears. If you do the motor swap I would plan on lots of "frame" re-enforcement. In fact would most likely build a complete new tubular front subframe and plate the hell out of the rest of it.

[XJ Wheeler]

You know, Dave. I pretty much build as i go. It may be because i don't have the dough to do a bunch of mods at once but my taste evolves as i learn. Products, skills, and knowledge tend to change my mind often.

An example. For a long time i wanted to have custom led tail lights. I wanted to take the stock tail light housings and cut the backs out. Then mount up some led pads for both the tail/stop lights and turn signals. I really wanted to do this. Then, one day i saw another members picture of his jeep. It had the Jeep 2500 tail lights from China. My new desire.

So for me, my answer, i'll tell ya at the pearly gates. Cause that's when i'll know.



Also, i would like to add a suggestion. Your list is great but #2 does not equate with #3 & #5. A V8 engine plus 35s equals lots of breakage for that 30.

[TUWdave]

Steve,
Where is the best place here to put the project progress? Reason I'm asking is I'm not sure how long the threads stay active. Just keep this thread going or something in the Tech section?
Dave

[TUWdave]

Big Jim,
Too late to turn back now. Both paid for. Picking them up in NH Thursday.
The LM7 is actually lighter than the 4.0. Gas mileage should be better on the highway than the 4.0. Do you think I would have the problem you mentioned if I went with 33's and 4:10's?
I guess I will just have to keep my foot off the gas a little more than I'd like when wheeling. The blacktop is another story. I plan to do a full plate job on the unibody rails and fab-up cross bracing too. Going to install a roll cage also for saftey and to tie things together. If a subframe is necessary, the I guess I'll deal with it then.
Later...............

[TUWdave]

Jake,
Thanks for the comments. I agree with you about the evolving of the rig. We all learn by experience and our mistakes I guess. Mine will be a big learning experience in a relatively short time. I have been considering upgrading to a Dana 44 front to keep the axles from coming out when, not if they break. May consider Ford 9" front and rear if breakage becomes an issue.
Later.................

[TUWdave]

Nice plan Dave. But I would suggest maybe looking at other companies for the long arm kit. RC has had trouble with their bushings and I don't think they have resolved it yet. Some may disagree with that, but I would not want to change bushings and inserts every year. Also I would recommend 4.56 gears with 35s. 4.10 is a wee bit too low. They will use the same carrier as the 4.10s. Where are you planning to wheel? No mention of locker or other traction aids.

Missed your real question on where the first time. Anywhere and everywhere I can do it without getting into trouble. Found 3 fire road candidates yesterday while out and about. Drove by them many times on my Harley without giving a second look. Keeping my eye peeled. Might head up to Maine to visit family and ask around and take a look there in the near future. Would eventually like to get involved with a club in the area. Also plan to head out west where the wheeling is wide open and tough but that's where the fun comes in.
Later......................

[4.3LXJ]

Steve,
Where is the best place here to put the project progress? Reason I'm asking is I'm not sure how long the threads stay active. Just keep this thread going or something in the Tech section?
Dave

Just start a build thread in the My Build section. They are saved indefinitely. You just add to it as you go. Here is two I have here.

http://www.xjtalk.com/showthread.php?t=4716

http://www.xjtalk.com/showthread.php?t=4716

[4.3LXJ]

Missed your real question on where the first time. Anywhere and everywhere I can do it without getting into trouble. Found 3 fire road candidates yesterday while out and about. Drove by them many times on my Harley without giving a second look. Keeping my eye peeled. Might head up to Maine to visit family and ask around and take a look there in the near future. Would eventually like to get involved with a club in the area. Also plan to head out west where the wheeling is wide open and tough but that's where the fun comes in.
Later......................

If you head out west, you will definitely want at least one locker. The trails get tougher every year due to use and erosion. One trail we go on, the bypass has gotten harder than the part it bypassed.

[TUWdave]

I guess you'll have to start using the original route then until its worse than the current route. :)

[4.3LXJ]

Their both down to bed rock. Not going anywhere for a few thousand years

[TUWdave]

Sound like it's time to make another bypass.

[4.3LXJ]

On that one, that would take dynamite. Shear granite on both sides

[Mudderoy]

I would add steering upgrade, and I may have missed it but you'll want to go with chrome molly axles on the D30 with a locker, and I'd think about doing it even with it open.

Also bumpstops, and you will want to do the rear disc brakes on the Dana 44 to help stop those 35's.

[nickxj94]

If I had it to do over I would go straight to one tons and a 6in iron rock longarm kit with some h1 beadlocks and 38s especially if I was to slap a v8 in it! Also would do a exo cage and a doubler.

[4.3LXJ]

Those super low gears are really nice

[TUWdave]

Having a tough time locating a Dana 44 from 87 to 90 XL with a tow package. Dana 35's are a dime a dozen. Anyone know of any yards in the Northeast that may have one? Much appreciated. Been on the phone a couple of hours at least today. Starting to think about just getting a built one and bolting it in.
Later.............

[TUWdave]

Maybe go with beadlocks in the future but I'm not planning on a lot of serious rock climbing at this time. Just looking for a wicked fast but tough rig. Not to sure about the exo. Would have to really be in to it.
Thanks for the input.
Later...........

[TUWdave]

Nice plan Dave. But I would suggest maybe looking at other companies for the long arm kit. RC has had trouble with their bushings and I don't think they have resolved it yet. Some may disagree with that, but I would not want to change bushings and inserts every year. Also I would recommend 4.56 gears with 35s. 4.10 is a wee bit too low. They will use the same carrier as the 4.10s. Where are you planning to wheel? No mention of locker or other traction aids.

I checked out the Clayton lifts. NICE! Thinking about their 6.5" Pro Series 3-Link with Blisteins. Decided to go with 33's and 4:10's too. Not sure if my better half and myself would be able to get into a rig with 8" lift and 35's. (maybe I would need a crane, well at least a ladder)

[nickxj94]

Having a tough time locating a Dana 44 from 87 to 90 XL with a tow package. Dana 35's are a dime a dozen. Anyone know of any yards in the Northeast that may have one? Much appreciated. Been on the phone a couple of hours at least today. Starting to think about just getting a built one and bolting it in.
Later.............

There like a needle in a hay stack lol just look for a 97-01 chy 8.25 there 29 spline and just as tough as a D44 IMO all my xj buds have 8.25s and any of us yet to break anything other than a ujoint or driveshaft

[4.3LXJ]

8.25s are just fine with 33s. Also, just from experience, I would suggest no more than 6.5" on he lift. At 8" you start needing steering upgrades. There are a number of them out there, but keeping it road worthy at freeway speeds with them is another matter. I have a three link and love it. If you go cheap on the lift, you will wish you hadn't. In my opinion, 8" of lift is not needed unless you go over 35" on the tires. If you go with an 8.25, make sure it has 29 spline shafts

[Showtime3492]

Having a tough time locating a Dana 44 from 87 to 90 XL with a tow package. Dana 35's are a dime a dozen. Anyone know of any yards in the Northeast that may have one? Much appreciated. Been on the phone a couple of hours at least today. Starting to think about just getting a built one and bolting it in.
Later.............

My buddy in oxford Pa is selling his 44 for the rear of an xj.
If i had to do it all over again....Im ashamed to say it but i wouldnt pick my xj i would have taken an s10 and 3 linked the front and swapped the 4.3 for a 5.7 and been done with it... :sign0181:

[Pookapotamus]

I have started from scratch again, Its great, you can fix the mistakes that you made on your previous build. Or just do things a little cleaner.

Check out my do over, http://www.xjtalk.com/showthread.php?t=9215

[Mudderoy]

Having a tough time locating a Dana 44 from 87 to 90 XL with a tow package. Dana 35's are a dime a dozen. Anyone know of any yards in the Northeast that may have one? Much appreciated. Been on the phone a couple of hours at least today. Starting to think about just getting a built one and bolting it in.
Later.............

There isn't a lot of difference between the 97+ 29 spline Chrysler 8.25 and the Dana 44, except a bunch of money. ;o)

[TUWdave]

Anthony,
I am not worthy. Hope mine works out half as well as either of your projects. Sweet rides my friend. Love the front and rear winches on Ginger. Work on Mortis is outstanding also. I may look into a 2 door next as I am 6' 1" and 270#. Al little tight getting in and out of the 4 door.

Thanks for the honesty on my original question that started the string. Question now is how many S10 sites are there like this one. No harm in having both sometime in the future??

Where do you and your friends go off road in York? I have a good friend that lives there and he will be retiring around the same time as me. Maybe he and I could head out with you for some south central PA scenery.
Later...............

[Showtime3492]

Anthony,
I am not worthy. Hope mine works out half as well as either of your projects. Sweet rides my friend. Love the front and rear winches on Ginger. Work on Mortis is outstanding also. I may look into a 2 door next as I am 6' 1" and 270#. Al little tight getting in and out of the 4 door.

Thanks for the honesty on my original question that started the string. Question now is how many S10 sites are there like this one. No harm in having both sometime in the future??

Where do you and your friends go off road in York? I have a good friend that lives there and he will be retiring around the same time as me. Maybe he and I could head out with you for some south central PA scenery.
Later...............

I usually wheel at 3 places one is an old road that washed out many years ago and now has some extreme terrain. Rausch Creek offroad park, and a place called Blackwoods up north. IF and when my project ever gets done id be glad to go out wheeling with you guys.

[TUWdave]

Sounds like a plan. Looking forward to it. Plan is to be up and running sometime June 2013.

[TUWdave]

Morning All,
Thanks to all for your input, suggestions, lessons learned, and honest answers to my original question "If I had to do it all over again." What I've learned is that there are virtually infinite ideas out there which in fact changes the answer to this question for all of us each time we read what each other is doing. Again, thanks to all!!

I have made changes to my original plan based upon you experience and comments. I guess the whole thing will be ongoing changes which is what makes a build an ever evolving plan. That having been said, looking forward to my build and will start a thread on my build in the near future.

Got started on rounding up some stuff yesterday. Picked up my GM LM7 and 4L60 trans at the "yard" I found on line. See attached pic. Took a while to get them strapped down. Couple of hour drive from the house. Got some funny looks on the way home. Don't see an engine and trans on top of a tonneau cover everyday. (Diamondback HD, holds up to 1600#'s). Made it home without incident. Still on the truck. 700 Will attempt to unload today but may get lazy and just cover them up with a tarp for now.
I was going to have them shipped home but decided to pick them up for a couple of reasons. One, saved $350 shipping charge (spent $80 on gas) and Two, wanted to check them out before putting out the cash. Worked out great 'cause I scored a Ford 8.8 with disc brakes S/U out of a 98 Explorer for $150. It's in the bed my 07 RAM safe and sound under the tonneau cover.
Decided to go with the F 8.8 instead of a D44for two reasons. The disc brake package and the shortage and cost of a D44. See, a good plan should be flexible. That what I am becoming with my plan thanks to you. Another important change from the original plan is the lift kit. Going with a Clayton 6.5" L/A lift (3 link) instead of the RC 6.5" L/A. Clayton looks way superior in both looks and strength. I'll add to this thread as I pick up stuff ahead of the start of the build then start a new thread in the my build section.
Later..............
Dave

[cantab27]

shit dave now im getting excited ............v8s in jeeps... yeah baby...

[XJ Wheeler]

Quit drooling on the keyboard Wayne.

[TUWdave]

Ordered a bunch of stuff on line this week. Early Christmas presents, at least that's what I tell myself. Have the GM LM7 and 4L60 trans already (still on my truck) so why stop there.

Novak - NP242 rebuild kit; shifter kit for NP242; 4L60 transfer case adapter kit; GM V8 motor mount kit
RuffStuff - Diff covers for D30 and F8.8; frame stiffeners
EastCoastGear - Complete axle assemblies D30 and F8.8. with 4:10's, chromally axles, and ARB lockers; high output ARB on board air compressor; Clayton 6.5" long arm kit

Found a nice steering box brace kit, JKS Manufacturing PN OGS960/...962 but haven't ordered it yet.

Kind of got carried away. Will have to make room in the garage for the stuff. Credit card asked for a break. Told it he would have to rest for quite a while. :getwell:

My better halif is not to happy with me. Told her she can be the first to drive it once done. Made her feel a little better. :cheerleader: Me too.:pray:

Later..............
Dave

[4.3LXJ]

That is what you have to do, get them involved

[TUWdave]

I think I may be out of control but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Stupid yes, but not bad.
Bought a donor 96 XJ today for parts. Doesnt run and brake pedal goes to the floor but body is in great condition. No rust at all in the rockers or doors. May use it instead for the actual build and keep the one I have now the way it is. Save wear and tear on the RAM for daily stuff.

The donor has a 231 transfer case. My original has a 242 and I have ordered the rebuild kit for it. Would appreciate any comments on which one is stronger and/or more reliable. Thanks.
Later.......................

[bigjim350]

In my opinion the NP231 is stronger and has a better aftermarket support. The NP242 is good for on-road slippery driving conditions with the 4wd fulltime option, but I like the 231 better for offroad.

[Chris1989cherok]

How hard is it to switch from 242 to 231?

[bigjim350]

How hard is it to switch from 242 to 231?

Just bolts in. Can re-use the same driveshafts. Just make sure the tcase you swap in has the same spline count on the input shaft. they changed once over the yrs. Early ones are 21 spline later ones are 23 spline.