Unibody reinforcement, opinons actually wanted...

[Dredwolf]

This forum has already provided solid advice to leverage my $$ the best for upgrades, and I have more to order.

I know the unibody needs reinforcement, that is a given. But a long arm kit is not in the plan at the moment. From my initial inspection (before the wire wheel and flap disks are gotten out), the unibody rails appear okay.

If you only could afford two upgrades to the unibody to strengthen it, what would they be?

Stiffeners? Rockrails? Heavy duty cross member? plywood and fiberglass:out:? skids? (already found a XJ tank skid) Random steel scrap attached with rivets?:smiley-laughing021:

Bumpers are already budgeted for, so that frame reinforcement is a given improvement. For bumpers, I am trying to decide between DIY kits, buy the steel and do it myself, or try to copy the Detours custom build here on the forum. I would like to have the joy of fully fabricating my own bumper, but so many have already got great designs that keep good approach angles.

But I know good bumpers with solid mounts will help each end.

[4.3LXJ]

Might I suggest killing two birds with one stone? Detours, one of our vendors has a combination stiffener and rock rail. Easy to install, but some welding required. The nice thing about his system is that it will not interfere with anyones long arm brackets

[XJ Wheeler]

For reinforcing the unibody my money's on frame stiffeners and steering box brace.

As time goes on and the harsh terrain us enthusiasts take these to, the unibody weakens over time. Gaps spread, material weakens, and cracks begin to show up. To stop a big portion of that frame stiffeners will reinforce the straight section in between the lower control arm mount and leaf spring hanger. This portion is one of the more weaker areas on these jeeps, the reason doors don't close or open. I studied up on this subject some before i laid my cash down for TNTs set. I have yet to install them but seem to be great quality and the material thickness is for sure adequate.

One thing i do suggest, and plan to do to mine, is drilling for some rosette welds in the stiffeners. Also, do a bit of research and talk to the pros about how to do the perimeter welds. I haven't nailed down a game plan on that. The research I've down has proven confusing. Some say fully weld around, some stitch it every few inches, some say don't weld the front due to it binding the unibody at that point. I figure i'll talk to TNT and maybe a few others.

The steering brace is more so meant as a generic term. There is a few different types of "bracing". Entry level would be a bar type setup that bolts under the passenger swaybar mount and runs a bar to clamp to the steering box. Better than nothing. Better is a "brace" like C-Rok sales that goes between the steering box and "frame rail". Even better is plates such as (i believe) JCR and TNT offers. They plate both sides of the frame. Whichever one, the steering box area is probably the most common for cracks.

Overall, my theory is if you reinforce part of the frame it sends the stress to another area. By that thinking the entire frame need stiffening. BUT, that's just a theory.

[Dredwolf]

Might I suggest killing two birds with one stone? Detours, one of our vendors has a combination stiffener and rock rail. Easy to install, but some welding required. The nice thing about his system is that it will not interfere with anyones long arm brackets

The Unibody Rok Slyders? I saw those, and I can drive to Kentucky to save on shipping (and an excuse to travel), but I was not 100% clear on the installation.

Welding is not a problem, and I have a good friend who fabricates everyday if its beyond my skills. I even thought about making my own, but I struggle finding time to finish any kind of fab work these days if it takes more than a weekend.

[07Negative]

I run TNT Custom frame stiffenerz (as they spell it). I have the middle section and the fronts. I also have their 4 bolt steering conversion b/c my AGR steering gear box has 4 mounting "ears" or holes unlike the OEM 3. I also have their LA kit, but I currently only have the belly pan on. All what I just stated is no joke. What I mean is it's freakin awesome! I would however probably consider other companies for frame stiffeners. Not to say TNT's is bad. But I would buy these instead if and when I need to get another set. http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/XJRAIL.html
TNT also makes the rears. TMR makes ones that completely run up the front. TNT's front ones do not.
Personally I'm glad I haven't bought these bolt on rock sliders yet. I think they are over all kinda junk. I'm more in favor of welding in some 2x6 box steel. Rock sliders seem to get beat to hell. Then you have to replace the entire setup. Most likely with the same name brand so the holes you drilled into your unibody get used instead of drilling in more new holes. I really don't know what the hell I'm talking about, but I'm trying to use what little logic I have on rock sliders.
I like how the DirtBound front bumper mounts. The mounts follow up the unibody for quite some ways.

[Pookapotamus]

I also run the TNT Stiffenerz, LOVE THEM! Completely different jeep once they go on. I loved them so much I cut the uni-body to shreds taking them off my old jeep for my new build.

As for sliders I am running the Gen-right kit welded directly onto the TNT Stiffeners and cut into the rocker-panels.

When I got the Stiffenerz I got the long arm extensions but did not install them as I was running shorts at the time. I now have the long arm extensions installed with a Clayton kit but sadly the rest of the jeep is nowhere near finished to be able to comment on what the extensions do for stiffening the frame.

I have never ran with a steering box brace but am fabing one up for my new build.

In my opinion if i could only pic 2 mods to the frame i would defiantly go sliders and Stiffenerz, they have been great for me, good luck on the build!

[Mudderoy]

The DETOURS frame stiffeners are rectangular box tubes that run along the outside of the unibody. They are bolted to the rear leaf spring bolt and a bracket that is bolted on then welded to the unibody near the front of the Jeep.

The welding of the stiffener is plug welds. There are four of them. That means you can remove these later by drilling out the plug welds.

Installation is really easy compared to the TNT stiffeners, and my God the DETOURS stuff is beefy.

I had mine customized with additional tubes.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-NQs7DkNdDZc/TqMONSE58xI/AAAAAAAABZY/ipO1_xrgGqg/s720/2011-10-22%252012.39.16.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-oPzbnqTiGbA/TqROOevKHCI/AAAAAAAABaQ/fu8HSGAblzc/s720/2011-10-23%252012.21.38.jpg

You can get just the stiffeners if you wish, but I wanted the same beef in the slyders.

[07Negative]

As you will find, there is a few ways to skin a cat. One of those cats will tell you don't even bother with any of what we have stated.

[Dredwolf]

As you will find, there is a few ways to skin a cat. One of those cats will tell you don't even bother with any of what we have stated.

I figured Steve or Big Jim would have done that already..:smiley-laughing021:

:D

[Dredwolf]

I run TNT Custom frame stiffenerz (as they spell it). I have the middle section and the fronts. I also have their 4 bolt steering conversion b/c my AGR steering gear box has 4 mounting "ears" or holes unlike the OEM 3. I also have their LA kit, but I currently only have the belly pan on. All what I just stated is no joke. What I mean is it's freakin awesome! I would however probably consider other companies for frame stiffeners. Not to say TNT's is bad. But I would buy these instead if and when I need to get another set. http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/XJRAIL.html
TNT also makes the rears. TMR makes ones that completely run up the front. TNT's front ones do not.

I like how the DirtBound front bumper mounts. The mounts follow up the unibody for quite some ways.

Ruffstuff and DirtBound's reinforcements look the same to me, I also looked at the ones by HDOffroadEngineering (like their rear shackle kit) and TNT's.

I was also looking close at the DirtBound DIY front bumpers, but something about the Detours simplicity is appealing...

[Dredwolf]

The DETOURS frame stiffeners are rectangular box tubes that run along the outside of the unibody. They are bolted to the rear leaf spring bolt and a bracket that is bolted on then welded to the unibody near the front of the Jeep.

The welding of the stiffener is plug welds. There are four of them. That means you can remove these later by drilling out the plug welds.

Installation is really easy compared to the TNT stiffeners, and my God the DETOURS stuff is beefy.

I had mine customized with additional tubes.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-NQs7DkNdDZc/TqMONSE58xI/AAAAAAAABZY/ipO1_xrgGqg/s720/2011-10-22%252012.39.16.jpg


You can get just the stiffeners if you wish, but I wanted the same beef in the slyders.

Yep, those are beefy. :shocker: Could you get a pic of how that front mounts?

[4.3LXJ]

As you will find, there is a few ways to skin a cat. One of those cats will tell you don't even bother with any of what we have stated.

The trouble with skinning a cat i that they make a lot of noise :shocker:

[TUWdave]

Looking at the RuffStuff XJRAIL for my build. Looks like a better install with the radiused top edge extending over the floor. From the pictures, looks like the welds are all plug welds. No continuous stress riser that way. Asked for a copy of the installation instructions to get a better look at how they are installed. Will pass it along if they send it.
Look like you could fab up cross bracing to them from rock rails if you wanted. I may go that route but not sure.
Later..........

http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/graphics/00000001/xj%20reinforcement.jpg

[TUWdave]

Just thought of something else. A pocket would have to be cut into the XJRAIL on each side ahead of time for the cross member of a long arm install. Could weld the cross member fully to the rail but not to the unibody then drill a hole in the cross member veritcal section for a plug weld if one was needed.

[TUWdave]

E-mailed Ruff Stuff for the XJRAIL install paperwork. Dan from Ruff Stuff got back to me and said to call them with any install questions. No install paperwork for it. Let me know if you want his contact info. It's on their site too.

If you look closely at the picture on their site, looks like they want plug welds just below the upper radius. Nothing on the actual floor though. Stress riser stuff I believe.
Later..................

[Mountain Goat]

I run TNT's on my rig .... easy to install, affordable and strong as heck! First class parts from these guys.


.

[Dredwolf]

Okay, big question for all...from lessons learned, WHEN should they be installed? Before my new springs? After the bumper? Sounds like putting it on a lift is a bad idea because of the unibody, so doing a "ground" install is fine.

[EricsXJ]

Given the choice I would plate the frame rails (add stiffeners) first. Install lift after that. Depending on which lift you choose, you may or may not run into any interference from the stiffeners. Most short lifts (3" or less) shouldn't be a problem at all. Taller lifts (including long arms) usually replace the stock crossmember with a much beefier crossmember or bellypan so you need to figure out if it will still work and if not can it be modified to work with/around the stiffeners. The bolt on drop brackets will be a problem.

I did the TNT stiffeners on mine before installing their long-arm kit and glad I did. I've seen several other people do it the other way and install the kit first and later on add the stiffeners and its not only a hassle but the finished result isn't as good.

[EricsXJ]

E-mailed Ruff Stuff for the XJRAIL install paperwork. Dan from Ruff Stuff got back to me and said to call them with any install questions. No install paperwork for it. Let me know if you want his contact info. It's on their site too.

If you look closely at the picture on their site, looks like they want plug welds just below the upper radius. Nothing on the actual floor though. Stress riser stuff I believe.
Later..................
I'd have to see a pic of them mocked up or installed but there are a couple reasons why welding along the very top of that lip will be difficult. The thickness (or lack thereof) of the floor is one issue. Its 18 - 20 gauge whereas the frame rail is 16, which is a big difference when trying to weld thick steel to it. I blow holes in that thin stuff easilly unless I'm super careful. 16-gauge frame rail is easy though and its even doubled up in some areas. The other issue is..... with that upper lip the way it is should contact the fold where the frame rail steel folds horizontal (if you can picture what I am describing). Unless the edge of the stiffener is still flush with the frame rail portion, it will leave a gap between the top of the stiffener and the actual floor. And welding across a gap to thin sheet metal will not work well, especially doing it in the overhead position which sucks to begin with.

[Sneedle Vision]

Yep, those are beefy. :shocker: Could you get a pic of how that front mounts?

http://xjtalk.com/showthread.php?t=8318 <--Detours Sliders thread

First page shows how they're installed.

[Dredwolf]

http://xjtalk.com/showthread.php?t=8318 <--Detours Sliders thread

First page shows how they're installed.

Note to self....."learn to use "search" thingy before asking forum questions to avoid being labeled a dumb:ass:, wife does not need help bestowing that label"

[Dredwolf]

http://xjtalk.com/showthread.php?t=8318 <--Detours Sliders thread

First page shows how they're installed.

Okay, after reading that thread, those are quite awesome. Looks like I need to adjust my budget numbers and see if I can afford a set....and beg Mark to make them.

I also noted Mark was right on with my thoughts in one of his posts, the self-tapping screws I just don't get....I was thinking of sliders and welding them to the unibody reinforcement..or drilling, sleeves, and bolting. I want something that can take a hit and be a pivot point if needed.

[Dredwolf]

I sent a PM to Mark on availability, we'll see. The Detours stuff is impressive, so the T&T or HD Offroad will be plan B, maybe with some beefy crossmember

[07Negative]

I'd have to see a pic of them mocked up or installed but there are a couple reasons why welding along the very top of that lip will be difficult. The thickness (or lack thereof) of the floor is one issue. Its 18 - 20 gauge whereas the frame rail is 16, which is a big difference when trying to weld thick steel to it. I blow holes in that thin stuff easilly unless I'm super careful. 16-gauge frame rail is easy though and its even doubled up in some areas. The other issue is..... with that upper lip the way it is should contact the fold where the frame rail steel folds horizontal (if you can picture what I am describing). Unless the edge of the stiffener is still flush with the frame rail portion, it will leave a gap between the top of the stiffener and the actual floor. And welding across a gap to thin sheet metal will not work well, especially doing it in the overhead position which sucks to begin with.

I blew holes in mine about 4 times. Nothing too harmful, just killed my ego.
Hows the build coming Eric? You got those axles built yet?

[TUWdave]

Ordered RuffStuff XLRAIL stiffeners this week. Also found a very nice steering box brace kit from JKS Manufacturing PN OGS960 and ...962. Haven't ordered it yet. Check JKS website.
Later.............
Dave

[EricsXJ]

I blew holes in mine about 4 times. Nothing too harmful, just killed my ego.
Hows the build coming Eric? You got those axles built yet?
Next on the list is to build the JK44 rear. I have all the parts except for the truss material - part of that gets ordered tomorrow from Blue Torch Fab.

[ezbuzzsaw]

The DETOURS frame stiffeners are rectangular box tubes that run along the outside of the unibody. They are bolted to the rear leaf spring bolt and a bracket that is bolted on then welded to the unibody near the front of the Jeep.

The welding of the stiffener is plug welds. There are four of them. That means you can remove these later by drilling out the plug welds.

Installation is really easy compared to the TNT stiffeners, and my God the DETOURS stuff is beefy.

I had mine customized with additional tubes.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-NQs7DkNdDZc/TqMONSE58xI/AAAAAAAABZY/ipO1_xrgGqg/s720/2011-10-22%252012.39.16.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-oPzbnqTiGbA/TqROOevKHCI/AAAAAAAABaQ/fu8HSGAblzc/s720/2011-10-23%252012.21.38.jpg

You can get just the stiffeners if you wish, but I wanted the same beef in the slyders.

I must admit it I am having serious tire invy! LOL

I run the TNT Custom frame stiffenerz and love them, as others have said, as soon as I got in and drove it waqs a different jeep, the suspension was doing all the work and the fram flex I was having was gone. I didnt even know it was flexing until I drove off with the stiffenerz welded in. I am going with the TNT long arms at some point this winter. Very happy with the purchase and it did not take that long to install. I went with stich welding due to the thin unibody.