Gear packages?

[Dredwolf]

Thanks to this forum, I was able to ask a question, get good opinions without a ton of brand bashing, and make a decision on lift components without chopping the XJ into a buggy with Unimog axles and shoehorning a V-10 in the front in order to retain the "right" to post questions.

As I have said before, I am working with a budget, and trying to outfit my XJ as best I can. It's time to re-gear, and I am wondering about the Motive gear packages. My XJ needs the glass pack :crazy: the previous owner installed cut off and replaced, so gear noise I will worry about when I can even hear the tires.

Are the Motive packages a good value? I have no plans to go over 33's at this point, and I am looking at lunchbox lockers for one or both the Dana 30 and 8.25. Anything can be broken with enough stupid, years ago I helped a then-friend re-gear and lock his YJ. In less than 15 minutes on his first outing at Telico, he blew the front end, all because he got mad about the buggies blowing past.

I don't plan on repeating that, and my wallet(or wife) :rolleye0012: can't stand stupid, so while I know I could pay much more for premium gearsets, is there a reason to if I have no plans on rock bouncing, unless it involves watching said insanity from a safe distance?

[BlueXJ]

I have never used Motive but have great experience with "Randy's Ring & Pinion" they really have whatever you may want in stock and have many experts there to help you through the gear change experience.

[4.3LXJ]

Since you are using 33" tires, one thing you can consider for considerably less is picking up a front and rear axle out of a 4 Cyl XJ. They come from the factory with 4.10s. 33s are right on the border of either going with 4.10s or 4.56s so this can be a cheaper and easier option.

[BlueXJ]

Since you are using 33" tires, one thing you can consider for considerably less is picking up a front and rear axle out of a 4 Cyl XJ. They come from the factory with 4.10s. 33s are right on the border of either going with 4.10s or 4.56s so this can be a cheaper and easier option.

That is excellent advice. 4 cylinder XJs are rare here so I didn't think of it. Up north they are a bit more common. Have fun in the JY looking.

[Dredwolf]

Since you are using 33" tires, one thing you can consider for considerably less is picking up a front and rear axle out of a 4 Cyl XJ. They come from the factory with 4.10s. 33s are right on the border of either going with 4.10s or 4.56s so this can be a cheaper and easier option.

That is a good thought, I believe that is where the mis-matched 4.10 D35 in my XJ currently came from (front 30 still has 3.55 :bang:, no 4x4 yet, all my off-roading in this XJ has been via MOMENTUM/luck/:pray:)

I have tried tracking down a 4.10 Dana 30 through the salvage parts finder, but they are rare in the southeast. Trying my first you-pull yard tommorow.

My '99 has ABS, if I swap the front axle, how much of a headache will the ABS cause? I can just pull the fuse for the rear swap, if I understand it right.

[NW99XJ]

Motive's aren't bad, the ONLY negative I've EVER heard about them is the noise, and that's hit-n-miss.
Rough Country has gear packages for BOTH the D30 AND the C8.25 near the 450 dollar range... pretty affordable! I think that's what I'll end up going with.
From what I hear the thing that makes other gears more expensive is the additional lapping that is done on the mesh side, this is what makes them more quiet.

[4.3LXJ]

That is a good thought, I believe that is where the mis-matched 4.10 D35 in my XJ currently came from (front 30 still has 3.55 :bang:, no 4x4 yet, all my off-roading in this XJ has been via MOMENTUM/luck/:pray:)

I have tried tracking down a 4.10 Dana 30 through the salvage parts finder, but they are rare in the southeast. Trying my first you-pull yard tommorow.

My '99 has ABS, if I swap the front axle, how much of a headache will the ABS cause? I can just pull the fuse for the rear swap, if I understand it right.

Just change the ABS stuff over to the new axle

[07Negative]

There is where I've been buying all the stuff for my axle(s).
http://seriousoffroadproducts.com/

[07Negative]

And why not locate a Chrysler 8.25 near you? 97-01 had the 29 spline. It's a great axle for most of us and our wheeling/driving styles. There is not a copious amount of aftermarket support for em. But just enough to make them strong and great for 33's.

[Dredwolf]

And why not locate a Chrysler 8.25 near you? 97-01 had the 29 spline. It's a great axle for most of us and our wheeling/driving styles. There is not a copious amount of aftermarket support for em. But just enough to make them strong and great for 33's.

I have already got a 8.25 from a '98, but its a 3.55, so I am already planning on re-gearing it. This is why I am looking into trying to save a few $ on purchasing one of the sets, because new coils, rear leafs, shackle relocation, frame reinforcement, winch bumper, winch, at least one locker, SYE, re-built driveshafts, hood vents, headliner, gas tank skid, HD cross member, etc are all on the list to get done before next spring.

Yep, got a lot to do.

[Dredwolf]

There is where I've been buying all the stuff for my axle(s).
http://seriousoffroadproducts.com/

I have been checking out their prices, they also have the Motive kits. That was why I was asking about the Motive Gear sets...trying to stretch the budget as far as I can, since I only have one shot to do this as "right" as possible.

[4.3LXJ]

Yes you do have a lot to do

[07Negative]

If you were to talk to Frank (who runs/owns that website) he would advice you to go with Alloy USA or Richmond gear. I've asked em before about the quality between the different brands. He's a rather non bias kinda fella, so I really regard his opinions as high. Richmond gear is just stupid expensive. I don't have the email he sent me. But he gave me logical explanations. I personally went with Alloy USA. But I have no real world experience to be honest.

[Dredwolf]

If you were to talk to Frank (who runs/owns that website) he would advice you to go with Alloy USA or Richmond gear. I've asked em before about the quality between the different brands. He's a rather non bias kinda fella, so I really regard his opinions as high. Richmond gear is just stupid expensive. I don't have the email he sent me. But he gave me logical explanations. I personally went with Alloy USA. But I have no real world experience to be honest.

The Richmond plant is less than an hour from me, in Liberty, SC, so I would prefer that too, if not for the cost...that is a minor factor in my decision for the LockRite and Powertrax over the Spartan. But did not Midwest Truck & Auto pick up Richmond to add to Motive Gear and Ten Factory?

[07Negative]

Hell if I know. I can't stay on top of who buys out who outside of my own industry. My attitude is, "try it out. If it doesn't work. Don't buy it again." And besides. Who cares? If it gets you where you need/want to be. **** the name brand.
There is however a difference between the user being a dip shit and a product failing.

[Dredwolf]

I think I will try the Motive Gear package, I think Jeep Hut stocks them in addition to Rough Country. I am pretty particular, already have the inch-pound torque wrench on the way, and thinking about getting the book for Randy's ring and pinion. And I am planning on getting a better 8.25 from the junkyard to build on the bench. If anything else, if this happens enough, I can justify a gear oil pump.

[NW99XJ]

.... and thinking about getting the book for Randy's ring and pinion....

Whats this book you speak of?

[4.3LXJ]

Whats this book you speak of?

Randy's Ring and Pinion in Lynnwood, WA (been there) is very supportive of do it yourselfers. They have a book all about differentials and how to set them up.

[TeXJ]

What I did to regear my d30 and 8.25, bought Standard Gears from Randy's Ring and Pinion. And got the Minor Install kits from 4wheel parts. Then I got a used loc rite from a forum member here locally. When I bought my 8.35 it had a broken, springs were broke $15 dollars, Power tracks No-slip.

[Dredwolf]

What I did to regear my d30 and 8.25, bought Standard Gears from Randy's Ring and Pinion. And got the Minor Install kits from 4wheel parts. Then I got a used loc rite from a forum member here locally. When I bought my 8.35 it had a broken, springs were broke $15 dollars, Power tracks No-slip.

I've got the most complete '99 8.25 under the XJ now, using the D35 as a chock block for my son's '89 F150.:D

But I have another '98 8.25 that I have not cracked open yet. If I new for 100% certain I was going to stick with the 4.11's, I would be open to spending more, but I am trying to find the combo that suits me. So I am trying to do gear change on a budget.

[NW99XJ]

....So I am trying to do gear change on a budget.

Aren't we all?!?! LOL,
The price tag, and labor (not sure if I want to do it myself) on a gear change is the ONLY thing holding me up.

[TeXJ]

I got lucky and have a friend that knows how to do this. It still took about 8 hrs per axle.

[Dredwolf]

I am going to place an order soon, but I need to track down an inch/pound torque wrench that does not cost as much as a gear set.

[ghost]

I have run both yukon and Nitro gears and have never had an issue with either. Nitro is from what I can tell the current popular bag for the buck gear. I got my yukons from Randy's and my Nitro's from East Coast Gear Supply in NC.

[Dredwolf]

I have run both yukon and Nitro gears and have never had an issue with either. Nitro is from what I can tell the current popular bag for the buck gear. I got my yukons from Randy's and my Nitro's from East Coast Gear Supply in NC.

Randy's has the knowledge and tools, will look into the Nitro's. Still leaning towards 4.11's for now because of the lack of trailer and tow vehicle, and trying to pick lunchbox lockers.

Wish I could afford ARB's.....

[Dredwolf]

As the budget turns.....:o

Trying to wheel and build takes a lot....might need to buy a project XJ and a wheeling XJ, and just keep flipping :D

Anyway, back to gearing and lockers. Still trying to figure out package deals, but the more I wheel, the more changes I think of.

In the 8.25, thinking about starting with a Powertrax No-Slip, and see how long that lasts.:pray:

For the D30, Steve's advice about his wife driving and it being safe really hits home.(Call me silly or whatever, but she is important to me) My wife can handle a v-8 sports car with a limited slip or locked rear, but having the front locked with a lunchbox worries me, plus the wear and tear on the drive train.

So I got to thinking about a selectable locker. If budget was zero concern, I would choose an ARB, and select one of the shops featured in the magazines to do the install......BUT..........I am a normal person with a budget and a mortgage. And there are other choices than ARB, even though I know ARB makes a great product.

Wheeled with a buddy with a Ected in the rear of a YJ, and was only kinda impressed....even "locked", it seemed to slip too much in situations where the YJ was really flexing out, instead of pulling on through. Might work okay in the front though.

What are the thoughts on the E-locker or the OX?

[4.3LXJ]

The OX is the strongest of the two. The E Locker has had some bad reviews from breakage. The lunchbox locker is not bad in the front as long as you are not under power on the street. As long as you are not in snow on the highway it should be OK. Thinking about a lunchbox locker for a temp situation in my front. I have ARBs for other axles, but the axles and tires for then are a long way off right now

[Dredwolf]

The OX is the strongest of the two. The E Locker has had some bad reviews from breakage. The lunchbox locker is not bad in the front as long as you are not under power on the street. As long as you are not in snow on the highway it should be OK. Thinking about a lunchbox locker for a temp situation in my front. I have ARBs for other axles, but the axles and tires for then are a long way off right now

We don't get much snow here, more ice than snow, but I do like having the XJ as an option to the 03 Explorer.

The OX seems pretty "simple" and can use a lot of methods to engage (like the "manual" lock they sell now), but people seem to see the cable as an issue with the XJ's suspension droop capabilities. I would think you would have the same issue with an ARB air line?

[4.3LXJ]

We don't get much snow here, more ice than snow, but I do like having the XJ as an option to the 03 Explorer.

The OX seems pretty "simple" and can use a lot of methods to engage (like the "manual" lock they sell now), but people seem to see the cable as an issue with the XJ's suspension droop capabilities. I would think you would have the same issue with an ARB air line?

The ARBs use a coiled line. But personally I will use a hard steel line along the frame and down the top link with a brake hose at flex points. Much safer that way. Although ARB makes repair kits that can be used on the trail if you have a failure.

[Dredwolf]

I was kinda hoping someone would chime in with "I have/had an OX locker and (insert thing that happened here)."

I am guessing that you could just be thoughtful with how you run the cable on the OX, maybe?

[bluedragon436]

I'd say as long as you think about what moves and how and think of how to route it around anything that might snag it as far as suspension/steering parts, then you should be good... Then take and maybe ziptie any slack you have in the cable to something that will keep it out of the way of random limbs or other items that might threaten to grab it out on the trail, and if something sturdy enough does grab it, the ziptie will break loose before it does damage the cable..

[4.3LXJ]

Wayne (Cantab) just bought his and will be installing soon. From what I found on the website about cable routing, there was instructions as well as which cables you needed. It looks like it wraps around the outside of the coil on the drive side front. For an extra $185 IIRC you can get an electric shift. Either has its drawbacks. The electric shift looks vulnerable and needs some protection, then there is the cable routing. Then again the ARB has those air lines and the Eaton seems to be a little weak. So take your pic. None are perfect.

[Dredwolf]

I saw a thread somewhere that someone had fabricated a shield for the cable. I like all the options the OX has, and that cover, but the electric shift does look vulnerable.

Now to find a vendor with a deal on the OX units, if I went the lunchbox route, I would have to buy a carrier anyway.

[XJ Wheeler]

I saw a thread somewhere that someone had fabricated a shield for the cable. I like all the options the OX has, and that cover, but the electric shift does look vulnerable.

Now to find a vendor with a deal on the OX units, if I went the lunchbox route, I would have to buy a carrier anyway.

Cantab27 (Wayne) was pleased with place he dealt with. You could try pm'ing him.

[Dredwolf]

So I am looking at the Yukon Zip locker and the OX now....:bang:, trying to decide and read all the reviews.

If I can ever decide, I'll go ahead and order the gears and this part finished.

[Dredwolf]

:rolleye0012:


Wonder if Wayne will get to install that OX locker soon?

Looking at an OX for the D30, but worrying about the cable routing....like the E-Locker price, but weird bearings?

And, of course, there is ARB, which is a whole other problem...the compressor just breaks the budget numbers...I don't want to install the locker, then wait a few paychecks to be able to use it, install compressor, etc.

[jschmidt250]

I just had the zip lockers installed. I think the warranty and price is hard to beat. I purchased them through RWK Haus Supply www.rwkhaussupply.com. They usually have package deals for the lockers and compressors and Robert is very helpful.

[Dredwolf]

I just had the zip lockers installed. I think the warranty and price is hard to beat. I purchased them through RWK Haus Supply www.rwkhaussupply.com. They usually have package deals for the lockers and compressors and Robert is very helpful.

What did you do for a compressor? I have seen his deals over on Cherokee Forum, and considered those myself. Not too sure on the US Standard gears, did you get a set of those?

He also posts good deals on that forum on Spartan Lockers, etc.

[TeXJ]

I have the standard gears on mine, yes there is some whine, but who cares it's a jeep. They work just fine and have held up well.

[jschmidt250]

The package came with an ARB compressor. I upgraded the compressor to the CKMA12 to inflate tires.

I have not noticed any more noise than I heard from my stock gears. If they do whine, I can't heard it over the tire noise and the clunks and rattles of a 20 year old Jeep.

[Dredwolf]

And can anybody explain the grinding needed for 4.56 in a Chrysler 8.25?

Is it a clearance issue?

I was originally planning on 4.11 gears, but 4.56's are whispering to me....:rolleye0012:

[Dredwolf]

And can anybody explain the grinding needed for 4.56 in a Chrysler 8.25?

Is it a clearance issue?

I was originally planning on 4.11 gears, but 4.56's are whispering to me....:rolleye0012:

BY THE POWER OF GOOGLE....

Okay, so its a clearance issue. I would think grinding the tooth would be better than weakening the cross pin, right?

[4.3LXJ]

You are talking about adding a lunchbox locker?

[Dredwolf]

You are talking about adding a lunchbox locker?

I have a Powertrax No-slip for a 8.25 headed my way. Did I screw up already?

[4.3LXJ]

No, no screw ups. To do it right, remove the carrier and the remove the ring gear. It will be much easier to install that way and then no grinding will be required. You don't want to grind the pin or ring gear. That is a no no

[Dredwolf]

No, no screw ups. To do it right, remove the carrier and the remove the ring gear. It will be much easier to install that way and then no grinding will be required. You don't want to grind the pin or ring gear. That is a no no

I have seen posts on grinding a tooth, and grinding the pin, with 4.56 gears..

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f11/gear-install-chryco-8-25-a-109859/

Would strongly prefer to not do that. I'll pull the axle, and do this up on my big bench if I have too. Just trying to figure out if 4.56 gears cause this clearance issue or not, vs 4.11.

[Dredwolf]

Here's one from :xjtalk:

http://www.xjtalk.com/showthread.php?t=505

With the Powertrax, I don't want to grind that cross pin....

[4.3LXJ]

Yes John, people do grind. However, there have been some failures with a ground shaft. I am just old school and a bit of a purist on stuff like this. You grind a shaft, it is weaker, no matter what. And so it that tooth. Some people figure they just want to be lazy about it or they cannot remove the carrier or ring gear. No biggie. Just put it back together exactly the same way it came apart. Also you will find that the locker is much easier to install and those little springs much easier to get in there right.

[Dredwolf]

Yes John, people do grind. However, there have been some failures with a ground shaft. I am just old school and a bit of a purist on stuff like this. You grind a shaft, it is weaker, no matter what. And so it that tooth. Some people figure they just want to be lazy about it or they cannot remove the carrier or ring gear. No biggie. Just put it back together exactly the same way it came apart. Also you will find that the locker is much easier to install and those little springs much easier to get in there right.

You have enough knowledge to be classified as a "purist"...I have to settle for just plain old "picky"....:D

Just confirming that it can be done without grinding, because I don' wanna' grind my $$ parts:sad0147:

I am flip-flopping between 4.56 and 4.11 gearing (with 33" tires), and trying to find out more about the E-Locker.

[4.3LXJ]

Granted. I hate to see people grind stuff that is machined just to be lazy. Besides, why make a weak spot?

[Dredwolf]

Granted. I hate to see people grind stuff that is machined just to be lazy. Besides, why make a weak spot?

Agreed, I'll just have to see how it goes with the PowerTrax. This will be my first "lunchbox" locker ever, did some Detroits back in the day, and helped with some of the early ARB's.

Maybe careful placement of the ring gear can mitigate the interference too.

[Dredwolf]

A set of 4.56 gears is on its way, getting close to the end of the parts. Guess I need to pick up some extra small parts for :bang: that will happen.


The outer seals that are marketed, like these http://www.4wd.com/Jeep-Drivetrain-Jeep-Axles-Differentials/Dana-30-44-Red-Outer-Axle-Tube-Seals.aspx?t_c=12&t_s=237&t_pt=101188&t_pn=ALY11102

Are they simply a gimmick? On CJ's, we used to drain and refill the front diff often because you could not keep stuff out of the diff....are the newer D30's the same, or better?

[Dredwolf]

A set of Motive 4.56 gears showed up, but the master kit for the 8.25 is back ordered.:bang:

Well, at least I have some of the parts....:D

[bluedragon436]

Where did you end up ordering your gears from?? I've been thinking more and more of picking up the sets/install kits through RC, so that I'll have all the major parts to have a local Jeep club member do the install for me, just looking for pricing at places i can order to get the best deal..

[Grits4Jim]

New member here as of yesterday. Came here looking for ideas for the cause of the noise from my newly installed gear set. I just recently put on a RE 3.5 lift, regeared to 4.10 with Motive, installed ARB lockers front and rear, installed Terraflex SYE and driveshaft in our 97 XJ. It's a manual and I'm running 31s.
The rebuild runs great with no vibration and handling issues. However, there is a growl that turns into a roar that is coming from the rear. The gear set has been inspected twice and still shows a good pattern. Yesterday, the place that's done the work replaced the driveshaft under warranty. Driving home last night the noise is still there. Although this is not a daily driver, I do have to drive on the interstate to get to some of the trails around here. At 75 mph the noise is averaging 93 decibels, loud enough where OSHA would require me to wear earplugs.
My next move will be to try a set of Richmond gears. I will be interested in how loud your Motive gears in a 8.25 will be.

[4.3LXJ]

Growl on acceleration, deceleration or both?

[Grits4Jim]

Both. Changes sound when decelerating but it is still loud.

[msmoorenburg]

I have about 700~800miles on my Motive 4.10 gears and they are a little noisy. I was able to yack on the hands free without issue at 70.

Here is my final pattern

http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m639/sellitx/photobucket-25261-1356834657850.jpg

http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m639/sellitx/photobucket-25203-1356834643118.jpg

[4.3LXJ]

Both. Changes sound when decelerating but it is still loud.

If you get noise both under acceleration and deceleration, I would suspect a bearing somewhere. Might want to check wheel bearings first. They could have been damaged out of the rig. Have someone drive it for you and sit in the back and see if one side sounds louder than the other.

[Dredwolf]

Unless you have went through the axle recently, or all bearings look and "feel" perfect, I typically change out everything anytime I pull the carrier.

In the little bit of experience I have, the axle designs where (like the 8.8 and 8.25) the axle shaft itself is the inner race, this is particularly important.

[Grits4Jim]

The work was done the first of December. They did install a master kit with the gears and locker. I'm not sure about the axle outboard bearings.

[RVXJ]

I have a Powertrax No-slip for a 8.25 headed my way. Did I screw up already?

From whom did you order your No-slip? How much did you wind up paying? I've been looking for one for my 8.25 and have seen them range from $431 to over $500 to my door. I've also been told that since Midwest bought out Richmond Gear, that they are running behind in production.

[Dredwolf]

From whom did you order your No-slip? How much did you wind up paying? I've been looking for one for my 8.25 and have seen them range from $431 to over $500 to my door. I've also been told that since Midwest bought out Richmond Gear, that they are running behind in production.

My wife ordered it from 4WheelParts for what was supposed to be a Christmas gift....but I have been told it could be 60 days. Oddly, the Richmond plant is only about 45 minutes from here, and I have an Eaton plant 5 miles away...but I still can't get what I want...:rolleye0012:

A friend of mind helped her order it with a free shipping deal, so it was about $450.

I do wish it was already here, but I needed time for the gear set and other stuff anyway.:rolleyes:

[RVXJ]

I ordered the same gears that you did last Monday. Today I just ordered a Powertrax No-slip, should be shipped next week but, we'll see. I also ordered an Aussie for the front. Now the waiting begins.:rolleye0012:

[Dredwolf]

I ordered the same gears that you did last Monday. Today I just ordered a Powertrax No-slip, should be shipped next week but, we'll see. I also ordered an Aussie for the front. Now the waiting begins.:rolleye0012:

Did your PowerTrax ever show up? I am now at 2 months since the order was placed, and I am beginning to get a little upset over the whole deal.

[RVXJ]

Did your PowerTrax ever show up? I am now at 2 months since the order was placed, and I am beginning to get a little upset over the whole deal.

Yes it did within a weeks time. I got it from Rocky Road for $10 + shipping. I also received the Aussie the next week.

[RVXJ]

er, make that $410

[Dredwolf]

er, make that $410

Dang, $10 was a major savings on a lunch box locker.....

[Dredwolf]

My PowerTrax NoSlip finally showed up!!!

I have scared to open it, for fear it's a cruel joke

[4.3LXJ]

Send it over. I'll check it out for ya :D

[Dredwolf]

Send it over. I'll check it out for ya :D

I'll try to take some good pic's one night this weekend, once I open the box. IF I can get XJ wrench time, it will be for getting the rear springs done, and maybe the Andy's track bar.