More Silly Questions - Long arm vs. Short arm?

[SeniorGustas]

Whats the difference between long arm and short arm? besides the huge price range. Whats the best way to go about cutting my fenders? thanks guys

[4.3LXJ]

Adam, I am no expert on trimming fenders since I have as yet to do mine. But as for long and short arm, that I can comment on. In the stock position, the lower arm of the front for link suspension is about level. As the front axle travels downward, that arm becomes at an angle. No problem if it is stock. But when the lower arm is sitting in it's fully lowered position, it is at quite an angel. Thus, when you hit a bump, some of that upward force is transmitted into the frame. Add poly bushings and it is worse. Then lower the axle more in its downward travel and it is even worse. So there are practical limits to how high you should raise the front on the short arms because of the way it performs. Normally I would say 4.5" is at that limit. Now I realize others have gone higher and are willing to live with it. That is why I used the word practical. So to get around that, the long arm was developed. It is about twice as long as the short so whatever angle that short arm would be, it is halved. This allows you to go higher. For instance, I am running at about 8" front lift. It is a decent angle due to the 32" suspension arms controlling it.

[KH96XJ]

I know this has been discussed before but I can't easily find the posts on it. However there was a decent long arm discussion on another forum you may want to read through, even has photos :camera: :link: (http://www.cherokeeforum.com/f2/lets-talk-about-long-arms-33331/) I know members here have taken part in that forum thread.

I had a good write up on trimming fenders I saw someplace. I'll have to see if I can dig that one up.

[prerunner1982]

Here is a crude picture I did for another thread showing the difference in angle of the control arm that 4.3LXJ described. Long arms give a smoother ride, allows more lift, and better flex.


http://www.xjtalk.com/picture.php?albumid=227&pictureid=3208

[OrangeXJ]

Here is a crude picture I did for another thread showing the difference in angle of the control arm that 4.3LXJ described. Long arms give a smoother ride, allows more lift, and better flex.


http://www.xjtalk.com/picture.php?albumid=227&pictureid=3208

X2 I put long arms on my 4.5 lift it made all the diffrence in the world on how it road.

[SeniorGustas]

So all in all is it worth it for me to spend the extra money and go long arm on a 4.5?
I'm somewhat anal about rough idols, and road noise that kinda stuff gets to me. Is it something annoying like that?

[4.3LXJ]

I would get the long arms if things like that annoy you. And make sure you use rubber bushing on at least one end.

[Carves]

Probably best to choose a system based on the percentages of onroad & offroad useage and the offroad conditions.

.... As another option to deal with the excessive angles caused by big lifts and short arms .... is those dropboxes that relocate the control arm, mount positions ... They might, be an issue in some terrain types tho.


Just in case the artistry posted by prerunner - doesnt highlight the differences enough ...

... Pushing a broom handle, fast and slow, and held at different angles, across a piece of corrugated, roofing iron/sheeting ... will let you replicate and "feel", what the control arm does when its working.

Basically the XJs front end should be reversed and on the back of a vehicle ... Where it would then be called what it is ... A trailing arm suspension.

As it is ... its fitted back the front - to allow a solid axle, to be put under the front of a grocery getter - and still meet the veh building regulations of the day ... that caused the demise of leaf suspension front ends, in similiar vehicles.

Clever/Cheap, way of dodging, for as long as possible ... messing around with IFS systems actually. :thumbsup:

... but road noise and suspension pounding transmitted to the unibody - is increased with the system. Its also probably responsible for a lot of DW scenarios ... Not that its the actual cause ... but it aggravates/increases the effects of loose, bent and worn out suspension/steering bits.

Sooooo ..... X2 on quality, rubber bushes for the control arms ... imho.




and stop growling you lot ... I use the term "grocery getter" .... in a nice way ... :D

[bigbuk29]

Fender trimming pretty much comes down to use and or personal pref. I have seen some guys that there really isnt much left at all, and some trim what needs to go. I used my floor jacks and stands to try to articulate my suspension and just trim whats needed. Its kinda of a redneck way, but it works pretty good, and looks better than trimming more than what is needed, IMO.

[Niac]

There are all kinds of good How-To's on fender trimming the XJ on the web. From what is termed a simple cut-in-fold to radical surgery. I ran a cut and fold with 33" tires and a 5" lift. I then went a little more when I went to 35". I run extended bumpstops in the front, mainly to keep my differential out of my oil pan. My favorite tool for it is a 4-1/2" grinder with a cutoff wheel. Many people use a sawzall and some with extreme patients have used a Dremel with a dinky cut off wheel

[Mudderoy]

There is a third alternative (I don't think it's been mentioned) short arm drops.

Basically it moves the connection point on the unibody straight down a few inches. So even with a 4.5" lift your control arms are straight again.

http://store.4wheelingplus.com/images/jeep-xj-Control-arm-drop-brackets2.jpg

[prerunner1982]

There is a third alternative (I don't think it's been mentioned) short arm drops.




.... As another option to deal with the excessive angles caused by big lifts and short arms .... is those dropboxes that relocate the control arm, mount positions ... They might, be an issue in some terrain types tho.

[Carves]

http://store.4wheelingplus.com/images/jeep-xj-Control-arm-drop-brackets2.jpg

Thats the go ... A photo reference of the little thingymajigs. :thumbsup:

[TeXJ]

Long arm vs. Short arms:
My take, I can drop a spring with my short arm lift just like a long arm lift can. Now does mine ride better...It's a jeep who cares. Plus it is not my daily. I didnt really care when it was. Just going from 31's o 32's seemed like I got into a caddy.
I say it depends on what size lift you want and from whom you buy the lift kit.

I have a Super-flex 3.5" kit from RE. It is the short arm version. I am running 33's.
front cutting I did.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v698/TeXJ2424/JEEP/42a8c8df.jpg

Now I that did it I think I can do much better the second time around. The back I did the cut up and then fold back routine.

Here is a good write ups, same guy just front and back.
http://go.jeep-xj.info/HowtoFrontArchTrim.htm
http://go.jeep-xj.info/HowtoRearArchTrim.htm

So if you get what you pay for on lift kits. I like the short arm kits from RE, but heard that the long arms arent that great. I dont know. I know that 4.3LXJ knows what he is talking about. I think the clayton and TnT longarm kits are pretty good. But I'm not spending that much on a lift kit...yet. :D

[TeXJ]

some more pics of fenders that are trimmed, I can flex better than this, ask scotters!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v698/TeXJ2424/JEEP/P8290218.jpg

trying to show the rear cutting here
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v698/TeXJ2424/JEEP/Kevlar.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v698/TeXJ2424/JEEP/DSCN0397.jpg